[Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

In response to PtE, I think it's really, really bad. That being said, I've never tested it - but I am 99% confident of this. In theory it combats one of the main ideas of the deck: mana denial.
For this deck to be effective, you have 3 primary tools to protect and clear the way for your awesome creatures:
-Hand Disruption
-Mana Denial
-Creature Removal
-*Secondary: artifact and enchantment removal

You should not unbalance these, as its important to have aspects of all in the MD. A major imbalance will cause the deck to have more unreliable MU's. Adding PtE would completely detract from the Mana Denial to help a creature removal problem that doesn't even exist, because Snuff Out plays this role just fine. And Vindicate is there to play 2 primary roles and a secondary role; it's worth splashing for only this card, I promise.

As far as creature removal goes, Snuff Out > StP > PtE.

I do believe StP is awesome in the SB though. I stick it in there as a 2-of. If you have StP in SB and Vindicate MD, you will have an edge against our B/g Eva Green brothers in the 'mirror'.

I have a question, why are people adding white to this deck when it can stay green and black only? Thanks primarily to the printing of Maelstrom Pulse. It seems like doing that would make the deck much more like traditional rock, additionally it would make the deck much more unstable when it comes to the mana base. I find that with so few lands even with the help of the original dual lands, the mana base is spread incredibly thin when one gets up to 3 colors, and is incredibly vulnerable to things such as other decks like our own, or even worse Dragon Stompy. I would hate to see this deck getting much better match ups overall, only to start losing to a relatively obscure deck, that is otherwise not very good.

So please explain to me why you are making this deck into three colors instead of trying to optimize the two colors that it already ran?

Well DalkonCledwin, you can run Maelstom Pulse and Vindicate; I've recently splashed white and my Eva Braun list evolved in some sort of mix between Eva Green and The Rock. It's pretty consistent and alot of fun to play because you destroy everything. Check it out:

Eva Braun:

Code:

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4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Troll Ascetic (!)

4 Vindicate
4 Maeltstrom Pulse
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Scrubland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains

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Sideboard:

Code:

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4 Orim's Chant
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Choke
4 Pernicious Deed

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The deck still plays heavy disruption and has a heavy LD-suite, but on the other hand, the Dark Rituals, Hymn to Tourach and Hypnotic Specters had to give way. 8 'Kill whatever' spells are very nice to have and really powerful. This way you don't need creatures with evasion because there's nothing there to block anyway. Troll Ascetic + Umezawa's Jitte = awesomesauce. The whole thing is alot more mana intensive than traditional Eva Green, but it runs 23 lands, Sensei's Divining Top and Dark Confidant, so you'll get there soon enough.

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

I would hate to see this deck getting much better match ups overall, only to start losing to a relatively obscure deck, that is otherwise not very good.

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I totally disagree with you on this point. I'd prefer better match-ups overall, over a better match-up against a single deck that is hardly played.

How is that deck even really "BG Suicide" anymore... it doesn't have the composite parts of a suicide deck all that much really... I would definitely classify that deck more as a rock deck than I would a suicide deck. And even then that is pushing it... this deck you just posted is "a different archetype" entirely than Eva Green, not to mention the Rock....

Even still, I would much rather maintain the traditional Eva Green status of the deck and try to make that deck better within the confines of the colors that it originally had, than trying to make the deck into something it never was. This push to add colors that weren't in the original color scheme is if you ask me a futile effort.

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

Well DalkonCledwin, you can run Maelstom Pulse and Vindicate; I've recently splashed white and my Eva Braun list evolved in some sort of mix between Eva Green and The Rock. It's pretty consistent and alot of fun to play because you destroy everything. Check it out:

Eva Braun:

Code:

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4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Troll Ascetic (!)

4 Vindicate
4 Maeltstrom Pulse
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Scrubland
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains

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Sideboard:

Code:

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4 Orim's Chant
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Choke
4 Pernicious Deed

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The deck still plays heavy disruption and has a heavy LD-suite, but on the other hand, the Dark Rituals, Hymn to Tourach and Hypnotic Specters had to give way. 8 'Kill whatever' spells are very nice to have and really powerful. This way you don't need creatures with evasion because there's nothing there to block anyway. Troll Ascetic + Umezawa's Jitte = awesomesauce. The whole thing is alot more mana intensive than traditional Eva Green, but it runs 23 lands, Sensei's Divining Top and Dark Confidant, so you'll get there soon enough.


I totally disagree with you on this point. I'd prefer better match-ups overall, over a better match-up against a single deck that is hardly played.

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That's not Eva Green. The set up looks slow without Dark Ritual and massive disruption like Hymm.

It looks more like a tempo-Rock or something.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

That's not Eva Green. The set up looks slow without Dark Ritual and massive disruption like Hymm.

It looks more like a tempo-Rock or something.

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thank you :D I completely agree, that for some reason does not look like Eva Green, and I am hesitant to even call it the Rock, it is so.... weak looking...

In response to Maelstrum Pulse, I splash white because Vindicate is vastly better than this card. You still have to have green to play Pulse, and when you think about it, its really no different than casting Vindicate; you just need a different nonbasic. With my mana base, I have 13 ways to get green, 12 ways to get white, and 10 ways to get a basic swamp. The mana base is extremely consistent, and fetching white is almost the same as fetching green when you run only 4 cards that need green (Goyf). For Maelstrum Pulse, you still need a bayou! And for those of you running 4 bayou, my deck that runs 3 bayou and 2 scrubland is barely any different when it comes to dealing with an opponent's Wasteland every now and then.

Note that it is horrible to play basic forests in this deck! I kills the consistency of the BB mana cost cards and hurts Nantuko Shade.

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you just need a different nonbasic.

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Sometimes you have to pick between choosing to fetch a Bayou or a Scrubland. You face these decisions when you splash white for Vindicate. Running Maelstorm Pulse avoids all that, and if you still have a spot removal effect.

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Originally Posted by Shawon

Sometimes you have to pick between choosing to fetch a Bayou or a Scrubland. You face these decisions when you splash white for Vindicate. Running Maelstorm Pulse avoids all that, and if you still have a spot removal effect.

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True, but you don't have a land destruction spell which can wins games, and sometimes you won't want to kill their goyf when you have to take yours out with it.

Has anyone tried Nether Void in this deck? I did and I found it to be quite the bomb.

As I mention before, after you've played your early disruption and threats, you either win the game or follow a topdecking path to losing.

You won't have that problem with Void. It will seal your lead, like an Armageddon would. With a Goyf or a Shade on the board, and nothing to threaten its existence, you will certainly win in a short few turns.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

True, but you don't have a land destruction spell which can wins games, and sometimes you won't want to kill their goyf when you have to take yours out with it.

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I must say that I really don't agree with this point of view. Having 8 different forms of LD has always worked in the past, so I will gladly trade off a Vindicate to hit multiples a whatever is annoying me. IDK how many times I have been mad because someone set a Chalice @ 1 and another @2. The option to possibly get two cards for the price of one is always appelling to me (which is why I LOVE Hymn to Tourach!!).

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Originally Posted by DeMarki

Has anyone tried Nether Void in this deck? I did and I found it to be quite the bomb.

As I mention before, after you've played your early disruption and threats, you either win the game or follow a topdecking path to losing.

You won't have that problem with Void. It will seal your lead, like an Armageddon would. With a Goyf or a Shade on the board, and nothing to threaten its existence, you will certainly win in a short few turns.

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this deck is already expensive enough, don't you think?

Anyways, Nethervoid hurts you just as much as it hurts your opponent.

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Originally Posted by LegacyDan

I must say that I really don't agree with this point of view. Having 8 different forms of LD has always worked in the past, so I will gladly trade off a Vindicate to hit multiples a whatever is annoying me. IDK how many times I have been mad because someone set a Chalice @ 1 and another @2. The option to possibly get two cards for the price of one is always appelling to me (which is why I LOVE Hymn to Tourach!!).

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So are you saying you would prefer Vindicate or Maelstrom Pulse? Personally in the scenerio you suggested I would prefer Maelstrom Pulse, but that is just me...

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

this deck is already expensive enough, don't you think?

Anyways, Nethervoid hurts you just as much as it hurts your opponent.

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You will obviously play it in order to seal the game and not when it's going to hurt you more than it will your opponent.

With a Goyf down and a crippled hand/manabase your opponent won't recover from it.

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Originally Posted by DeMarki

You will obviously play it in order to seal the game and not when it's going to hurt you more than it will your opponent.

With a Goyf down and a crippled hand/manabase your opponent won't recover from it.

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still the card costs in excess of 70 dollars, and it isn't even a alpha/beta nor is it a foil... I don't see any reason for spending that much money when the deck is capable of performing perfectly fine without it.

I guess what I am trying to say is: trade me some foil Maelstroms. I need two to complete my playset. They suck. You don't need them. Vindicate is far better.

*do Jedi mind tricks work over the internet?

In all honesty, Pulse cuts down our dependency on foreign mana colors.

- Vindicate + Maelstrom Pulse, this lets you keep a more focused mana base, allowing more basic lands in the deck for the bad matchups like opposing Wastelands/Moons. Now I can go rogue and put in a Windswept Heath or two to get out my basic Forests (LoL I is are so doing thats).

- StP/PtE + whatever black removal spell you like, Black has never really had a problem removing creatures, unless you forgot to put the card of choice into the deck itself.

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

still the card costs in excess of 70 dollars, and it isn't even a alpha/beta nor is it a foil... I don't see any reason for spending that much money when the deck is capable of performing perfectly fine without it.

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That's not a valid argument though, the card is legal in Legacy and cost less than 2 Tarmogoyfs, this is a tournament quality deck discussion, not a Bugdet B/G Sui thread. :)

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Originally Posted by DeMarki

That's not a valid argument though, the card is legal in Legacy and cost less than 2 Tarmogoyfs, this is a tournament quality deck discussion, not a Bugdet B/G Sui thread. :)

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I am not saying it is... however have you actually tested the card? Is it actually better than any of the other cards which you would have to take out for it to be viable in this deck?

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

I am not saying it is... however have you actually tested the card? Is it actually better than any of the other cards which you would have to take out for it to be viable in this deck?

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I tested it and I like it, I will post my version of this deck:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nantuko shade
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Tombstalker

4 Dark ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Snuff out
3 Nether Void

4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
6 Swamp

I play more aggressively, thus runing Negators over Hypnotic Specters. Against combo/control a first turn Negator is deadly and it's a 4 turn clock.
Void might cost 4, but it can be played fast with a ritual and it's there in order to seal the game once you have the advantage.
I keep the Kroshan Grips in the Sideboard, so I run 3 if needed on the second match. I also run 3 Tombstalkers cause I don't want to draw too many of them since you can't play them easily.

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Originally Posted by DeMarki

I play more aggressively, thus runing Negators over Hypnotic Specters.

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I really, really don't like Negators. maybe there was a time and place where they were king, but when the average creature is a 4/5, it just pales in comparison.

For control match ups, they WILL have blockers, be it tarmogoyf, factories and what not. The loss of permanents can be killer in the early game, and late game? Why bother. Tombstalker is superior and doesn't have to worry about losing you permanents.

I can see him being decent in combo however some like Ichorid might choose to chump block him.

And god forbid you play him first turn only to have him eat a bolt. :cry:

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I really, really don't like Negators. maybe there was a time and place where they were king, but when the average creature is a 4/5, it just pales in comparison.

For control match ups, they WILL have blockers, be it tarmogoyf, factories and what not. The loss of permanents can be killer in the early game, and late game? Why bother. Tombstalker is superior and doesn't have to worry about losing you permanents.

I can see him being decent in combo however some like Ichorid might choose to chump block him.

And god forbid you play him first turn only to have him eat a bolt. :cry:

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I completely agree with everything said here. Negator is pretty crappy in the current meta. It is infinitely more of a liability than a threat.