Yeah, If there was a SFM for artifacts maybe...
Still, I frustrated a zoo player when running a proxy deck a few years ago.
Regrettably I can't remember the deck list.:frown:
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Yeah, If there was a SFM for artifacts maybe...
Still, I frustrated a zoo player when running a proxy deck a few years ago.
Regrettably I can't remember the deck list.:frown:
Tutoring isn't necessary when stalling is what Pox should do best. I'm guessing it ran 4 Ankhs, 4 Smallpox, 4 Pox, and maybe 4 Rancid Earths? Desolation (lol)?
Since it was proxy probably wasteland, maybe sinkhole. Anyway I doubt it is necessary to run any additional LD. While it is disruption I figure it would be an adjunct much like The Rack.
4 bloodghast
1 netherspirit
4 ankh of mishra
4 innocent blood
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 pox
4 smallpox
4 hymn to tourach
4 Liliana of the veil
4 dark ritual
18 swamp
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 wasteland
This is how it would look using my resources.
I'm thinking about cutting a Scroll from the main since I've added the tutors to fit it in. Not sure if that's trimming it down to far or not, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Keep the scroll and cut the tutors. People seems to find those underwhelming.
What do you guys think of this list as a starting point in pox?
4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymm to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Empty Slot
21 Swamp
My concerns with this list is Delve and Bloodghast don't have great synergy. And I think to make bloodghast better I need to add fetchlands and possibly crucible/Mox Diamond/Wasteland
I would go -7 Swamp, +4 Fetchland (Minimum), +3 Urborg. I would also cut Big Pox -3 for +4 Inquisition of Kozilek (filling your empty slot) and -4 Duress for +4 Funeral Charm.Quote:
Originally Posted by sampi
On Salvation people were talking about Myth Realized as part of a new strategy in 'Holy Pox' (Bw Pox) or even three-coloured Pox. Opinions?
I have run Tombstalkers but moved away from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sampi
Lot of effort to get them in play, and then they get usually get sworded.
To play Bloodghast you do not need fetchlands.
Liliana of the Veil is the starting point for competitive Pox. I admit it's a shame but it's something I've come to accept. She feeds Tombstalker's Delve as well. 10 threats is a lot, but not 'too much' as you've got enough disruption. I'd drop 1 Cursed Scroll and squeeze in some Dakmor Salvage to keep those Bloodghasts rushing. Crucible is best used for Waste-locking your enemies, not bringing back a 'ghast. That and a Crucible 'forces' you to go land 'spells' hard. Mishra's becomes more Nether Spirits, Wasteland and Ghost Quarter becomes long game mana denial, and you get access to Cabal Pit spamming.Quote:
Originally Posted by sampi
In the absence of Liliana, 4 big Pox will work. Great way to make games fast in a long tournament field. 2 Pox = 12 life lost. ^_^. That being said, you don't want to lose something like Tombstalker to it so I'd suggest more 'sac-immune' win conditions like Chimeric Idol (you don't use lands for spells so it'd be a great win con with no drawback). Or 2 Nether Spirits and 1 other disrupt spell like Contamination (lol).
Thank's for the feedback guys
I've changed the list a bit
-4 Duress
-3 Scroll Rack
-3 Tomstalker
+4 IoKozilek
+3 Funeral Charm
+4 Chimeric Idol (and filled Empty Slot)
if you run big Pox the you really should have the Rack in your deck. Good synergy with your spells, and it cannot be sworded.
Mishra's Factory is probably better than idol, btw.
Depends on your disruption suite, but personally, I think Chimeric Idol has 4 advantages over the Factory. More damage, doesn't use a land drop, no mana needed to activate which lets you tap out for spells AND punch for 3, and can defend as a 3/3 instead of a 2/2 with summoning sickness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
However, with Mishra's being a land drop, it's really only needed if your spell count is insanely high. I'd run Chimeric Idol if I wanted to run 64-68 cards in my deck, lol. In a 4 Pox build, Chimeric hits REALLY hard. (4 turn clock after a Smallpox+Pox right? :eek:)
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
The Rack is the one-of that should be in every Pox list, just because it also deals with opp's planeswalker without having to spend ressources (like cursed scroll) and it hits harder.
I keep it in my sideboard. It's great in that it's a hard target that doesn't target anything so it ignores Leyline of Sanctity [HATE THAT CARD] and Pithing Needles. I'm starting to consider an unknown gem called Skullcage. Not only is it a badass name, but it can fit in any Pox type be it discard or hand clogging Land Killer. Unlike Rack, it also dodges counterbalance very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
In a situation where my Liliana is needled and my foe is hiding behind a Leyline of Sanctity [ouch], I think packing more Pox may be the answer.
wheel of torture is a card I have been considering myself. iron maiden would work with chalice in your deck.
Just throwing it back in, seems like a decent beatstick. Sure, it would ask for a different built, would like to hear some opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
I played, long time ago, a BW Pox list but ended giving up because you are adding even more variance because of the mini color splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
If I were to be playing BW Pox again, I would not consider "Myth Realized" as a decent beatstick because it is an awful topdeck. It can be great early on but that's all. To be honest, this card feels the same as "Waste Not" as it does not impact the game state the turn you land it but might be a little better as the game drags on (less conditional).
The main reasons for me to splash W are:
- Swords to plowshare
- Flagstones of Trokair
- Vindicate
- Sorin, lord of Innistrad
- Sideboard options when dealing with artifact & enchantment
But after considering all this, just play Pikula (Deadguy Ale).
Don't forget Ghostly Prison. With that, Sinkhole, Wasteland, Vindicate, Smallpox, and Pox, you've got yourself a 3 mana moat. Free Tombstalking for all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Any ideas for red splash?
Red is known for 2 things. Direct Damage and Land Destruction. Blightning, Raze, Stone Rain, Pain/Suffering (lol), Lightning Bolt, Bump in the Night (:laugh:), Backlash, Dreadbore, Terminate, Fire Covenant, Fulminator Mage, Rakdos Charm, are probably good starts. You could use Veinfire Borderposts to recover from hard Poxing. Ultimately, since you're saccing lands and the like, I'd still say stick to mono-black. I'm posting my 'Ultimate' build in a minute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Liliana's Crucible of Souls! :cool:
Lands (24)
1 Maze of Ith (w00h00 price drops :laugh:)
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Cabal Pit
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Swamps
Spells (28)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Engineered Plague
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Win Conditions (4)
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Nether Spirit
Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 The Rack
1 Underworld Dreams
3 Engineered Plague
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Extirpate
I've tested in a casual meta full of home brew and super decks. MUC, Counterbalance, Show and Tell, Red Deck Wins (burning...), Elves, Affinity (budget), Merfolk, Slivers (Pauper, this thing is actually very scary), Thopter combo and derivatives, Dredge (hate it, a lot), Jund Junk, The Rock, and Threshold (both budget and fully powered)
It is a hybrid of Reid Duke's old and newer designs and this design
Initially my friend and testing partner thought the Crucible was a weird choice considering it doesn't do anything compared to the rest of the deck but once he lost 4 basics to Ghost Quarters, top decking land became a problem. That and my Ghost Quarter games in response to his Sensei's top spins pissed him off :mad:.
My best game winning play was vs. his Counterbalance where he needed a Council's Judgement to stop my Underworld Dreams from killing him. He SDT and puts it on top and before his draw phase, I Extirpate some random card from his graveyard. My Underworld Dreams got him. :laugh:
I haven't tested this in my local tournament but I feel like this is probably the most dangerous form of Pox where even going long long game is bad due to Crucible's staying power. I'm tempted to squeeze a 2nd one in. Usually I always get to cast that 1-of Pox so the life smash doesn't make the game go to time. Ah, if I could sensibly run 62 cards! :frown:
Dropping a Maze of Ith when faced with a Show and Tell'ed Grizzlebrand was epic. If only I could figure out to get either a Nether Void (replace Crucible) or Tabernacle (replace swamp #9)...
Omnistrata, thanks for the help I sort of have a black core but the other card slots need good candidates.
Looking at your deck I think it is a new archetype.
That which make Pox a Pox is all the suicide-like destruction of both mine and thine stuff.
Liliana-control perhaps?
I think to get a second Crucible in you could drop the second Nether Spirit.
A Sinkhole perhaps...
A Bojuka bog for gy hate could be an idea.
I've been using this version for awhile, found it more successful and more fun than Prison Pox. From my local shop, I've found it whoops High Tide, Punishing Jund, Prison Pox, and rogue decks frequently. Has trouble beating Shardless. I'm going to start going to a weekly that has a more competitive metagame and am not looking forward to going against Miracles. Any advice for that matchup?
Deck: MonoBlack Pox http://deckstats.net/mana/m/b.gif
//Main
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 The Rack
1 Nether Spirit
4 Bloodghast
1 Raven's Crime
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Entomb
2 Disfigure
2 Smother
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Dakmor Salvage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mishra's Factory
11 Swamp
//Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Null Rod
3 Pithing Needle
2 Extirpate
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Necroplasm
http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display deck statistics
I have been successful lately vs miracles.The trick is to keep up the pressure and Pox a lot (I run four).
Possibly my easiest match-up now.
Finally got Japanese foil Nether Spirit and Sensei's Divining Top, added both to my G/B Loam Pox build, went 4-0 at local weekly Legacy event. Nether Spirit being able to block did save me one game, a one of SDT was amazing. Every time I drew it I loved it, between fetchlands, crop rotation, entomb, and loam there are a ton of ways to clear the top of the deck and get a fresh look.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Miracles is like the 'anti-Pox' since it's duty is to topdeck a Miracle as it were. It can function as hellbent well since it's strength is casting off the cheap top deck so cards like Hymn to Tourach and Inquisition of Kozilek lose value since they can't hit cards newly drawn. I'd recommend incorporating more land destruction effects. To that end, Hardcore has the right idea by casting Pox more often since it's the 3rd best LD spell in the universe :eek: with Smallpox in 2nd and Sinkhole as first. Wasteland isn't a spell and can't hit basics :tongue: but is an auto-include due to lack of Stifles vs. Miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingfawn
I deal with Miracles by using Underworld Dreams and Pithing Needles on Tops. Night of Souls' Betrayal, Engineered Plagues naming Soldier or Angels and even Ensnaring Bridge can stall long enough for the Black Enchantments to kill them off. You could also consider Gloom (laugh) or Dread of Night or Desolation if you can recover from it somehow.
Another angle is to wreck their top 3 cards somehow after they're done spinning the top. Ghost Quarter and Misinformation are probably your strongest plays to kill their Miracle activation attempt (Ghost Quarter most likely they'll just let the land get nuked and not replace it ^_^). Another one would be Extirpate. Dimir Machinations could make or break games methinks.
It's not a new archetype. It's still got 13 symmetrical effects from Innocent Blood to Liliana herself. I used to think Bokuja Bog would work too but the B/G Poxers have better use of it with Crop Rotation at instant speed. My Dredge using Magic Coach also mentioned that Bokuja is best triggered in response to a Dread Return's announced target so Knight of the Reliquary also works. I'll accept game 1 GY losses for a super powered game 2 after boarding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I’ve actually being thinking that I’d love to use Slaughter Games in the board. I can’t tell if it’s a decent idea, or just my love of cards like Extirpate, Cranial Extraction, and Sadistic Sacrament. I had never heard of Veinfire Borderposts before, but it seems like a great card for the deck, if one wanted to splash red.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
My going to 4 Lilianas and 3 Pox was a recent thing. I’m going to do some testing, but if I find that it’s not as good, I’ll go back to 4 Pox. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Excellent information. Underworld Dreams and Ghost Quarter are definitely going to get some testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Does anyone have any advice on Extirpate or Surgical Extraction targets? Extirpate seems better, due to split second of course. I’m sure all I’m going to see in the yard for the first two or three turns against Miracles is Brainstorm. Maybe I’ll get lucky with an Inquisition or Thoughtseize and nab a Counterbalance or Terminus :cool:
Against miracles your artifacts are better. Counterbalance is not that big problem, but the Sensei's divining tops are.
I like Sylvan Library better than Top in most instances but I've started using it in Loam Pox too because of the very handy ability in Loam Pox to protect your Loam from anti-graveyard by Loaming in response with Top ability and putting Top on the deck. I like two in the G/B and one in Mono Black versions, though making space is always tough.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Here is what I am testing now. I am also working on a more lands-y approach, but this one is more versitile and benefits from some of Joshua's insights I've seen in his builds.
Loam Pox
1 Nether Spirit
2 Bloodghast
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
3 Crop Rotation
4 Smallpox
3 Inquisition of Kozeliek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Innocent Blood
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Urborg,Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
Side
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Raven's Crime
So, the time has come where I can pick up another Legacy item to continue my ever-progressive quest to have Pox where it feels right in my hands. I've listed what I'm currently putting in sleeves below, but my big question is this...should I be more focused on a Tabernacle in the maindeck (removing one Swamp), or two more Chains for the sideboard (likely removing the Trinisphere and either Gloom or a Leyline)?
Main Deck:
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
12 Swamp
1 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll
1 The Rack
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Infernal Tutor
3 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
1 Toxic Deluge
Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
2 The Abyss
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Engineered Plague
1 Gloom
4 Leyline of the Void
Chains Sound cool, but If you want to stop blue cantriping then chalice of the void works equally well for less money. So I guess my advice is go for tabernacle. Besides it's nice with nethervoid.
Unfortunately, Chalice also stops the decks 13 1-drops. Granted, some can come out, but being shut off of removal for the rest of the game hurts quite a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
True, true.
i agree..Quote:
Originally Posted by zebhillard
chalice on 1 and a pithing needle either on factory or scroll is very back-breaking against a list that runs a lot of :b: cc spells..thats exactly what happened to me last sunday..with 4 innocent bloods, 4 IOKs, 3 cursed scrolls and 4 dark rituals, chalice on 1 really got me..
i missed ratchet bomb in that match-up..