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IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Olesch
1) Leyline of the Void
2) Extirpate
3) Trap
4) something else
I use Leyline of the Void and I'm happy with it. The problem is people are aware of it and sometimes (mostly when I draw badly) I want something else. I will try to fit in 1-2 Extirpate to asure my gy&combo hate package.
so i think i may have posted in the wrong thread previously. maybe this belongs here? help would be appreciated...
so eva green doesn't use bob. vesper green does use bob, but doesn't use sinkhole , and deadguy ale does use bob and sinkhole.
did i get that right?
i've been testing a new deck to pretty good results and i'd like to hear everyone's input. i guess you could say it's a cross of doran sui + deadguy. i've been having pretty good percentages across the field really. i can take negitive feedback, but please before anyone bashes it, please sleeve it up or test on workstation. anyway, here's the list with explanations choices and amounts to follow.
[deck]3 bobs
3 vampire nighthawks
4 goyfs
3 doran
1 terravore
4 dark rits
2 duress
4 thoughtseize
4 hymn
4 sink holes
3 vinidcate
3 swords
2 shadow of doubt
4 verdant catacombs
2 marsh flats
2 swamp
1 murmuring bosk
4 bayou
4 scrubland
4 wasteland
sb (not firm on this)
1 choke
3 krosan grip
3 extirpate
2 ravenous trap
2 gaddox teeg
3 pernicious deeds
1 shadow of doubt[/deck]
61 cards i've been a fan of for a while, especialy with a mana base like this. you can chnage if you'd like, but don't even bother trying to change my mind on this one, at least not in this deck.
3 bobs is the right number because you're busy disrupting early. nothing costs more than 3cmc, so i've not been afraid to play out 2 or even all 3. they really give you the gas you need after you're done nuking there hand and lands (though i still don't like him in a more straight forward eva green suicide deck, because i really like snuff out and tombstalker better than doran/vindicate/swords here)
3 vampire nighthawks have been amazing for me. helps with bobs pain, get bigger with doran, versitile removal similar to vindicate, though i may drop down to 2, as i'd rather draw something else than a second or third one of these.
3 swords- best removal. with nighthawks, vinidcates and discard i didn't feel the full set was needed. low cmc helps with bob, as well as being able to hit your own creature in a pinch.
3 dorans due to legendary and wanting to run out threats, in addition to color requirents. this 5/5 goes toe to toe with pretty much everything. this bomb makes it ok to drop tombstalker for bobs sake.
1 terravore due to color requirement, but it's a bomb with all the LD, and with bob you'll draw it more often than not. it's pretty easy to play him as a 12/12, and trample is just cake.
2 dures ensures a good durn one play, especialy with dark rit.. clears away removal, and i face a lot of control. maybe want to add a third?
3 vindicates- color reqirment and you'll never want to play it early anyway. you always wait until you've disrupted and figure out your opponents game plan.
2 shadow of doubt- this one will probably be the hardest one to sell, but i swear it's pimp juice. not only is it LD, but it replaces itself, and most importantly it's great vs natural order, gifts, ect. i even have a third one in the board. but 2 sylivan librarys might work here.. there really are a lot of things you could put in these slots. however i urge you to try it before you knock it.
single choke because you're not gonna want to see more than one, and it's not really needed when running this much LD.
extirpate and trap vs ichorid. but if you know someone's not playing basics, extirpate a color source can be hard too.
i know deeds is slow, but it's great vs enchantress. helps vs ichorid tokens. pretty good with zoo and elves. and mops the floor with afinity (yes, i actulay have to play these match ups).
2 gaddox teeg is the only good white card i could think of for the board. good vs sweepers, force, natual order, tendrils, ad nauseum, ect ect.
are there any other good white board options i may not have thought of?
so, what does everyone think?
Is it possible for Abyssal Persecutor to be good in a BWG build?
Or maybe even Death's Shadow?
Thoughts?
I'm thinking something like this:
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Dark Confidant
2 Hypnotic Specter
2 Death's Shadow
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Path to Exile/Sword ??
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Could this be good?
popeye79: Most dead guy lists I've seen run 22 lands, so I'd probably up the number by one there. Any reason to run Murmuring Bosk? You really do not want a tapped-land in a deck so focused on early game/tempo. I'd swap it for something else.
Changes:
+1 Swords
+2 Gerrard's Verdict
+1 Dark Confidant
-2 Duress
-2 Shadow of Doubt
4 Swords is minimum IMO. I kind of like GV because its an extra source of life-gain, helping you support 1 Bob longer (or even two); some people don't like it though, fair enough. I'd keep Duress before I kept SoD. A lot of Blue decks debate whether its worth their while to run Stifle. This card is narrower and costs double-black. I know, different deck and purpose, but honestly it doesn't see play for a reason. You want to be casting Hymn and Sink Hole and Bob, not leaving 2 mana open hoping they crack a fetch land.
Lately I've been thinking that Deadguy Ale needs to concede the fact that Eva Green is strictly better at Tempo and the Rock is strictly better at control. Thus for Deadguy Ale to be successful it needs to focus on Ramping, by which I mean building a mana-curve that that maximizes each turn at the cost of having random explosive first turns. Under this idea, I think the first thing to cut is Dark Ritual and then as a consequence of this Tombstalker has to go (if you can find a way to reliably get him on the board w/o ritual then I'm all ears). This opens up roughly 7 spots in the deck for easing out the mana curve with more 1 cc drops. I've been leaning toward 6 targetted discard (3 TS + 3 Duress) and 3 Mother of Runes, as all nine of these function to protect the real work horse of the deck, Dark Confidant. Resolving Bob on turn 2 and keeping him alive is almost always the critical element that determines whether or not I win.
Additional, without Tombstalker in the deck SDT can be removed (unless you really like it) to make room for additional kill-cons and control elements.
Anyways thats the rational behind the choices I've made to my deck, but since I haven't been able to do any live-testing with it, I'm hoping to get some constructive criticism about where you think this direct will lead.
List:
4 scrubland
4 marsh flats
2 caves of koilos
3 wasteland
7 swamp
1 plains
3 mother of runes
4 dark confidant
4 gatekeeper of malakir
4 vampire nighthawk
2 elspeth, knight-errant
2 umezawa’s jitte
3 duress
3 thoughtseize
4 hymn to tourach
4 sinkhole
4 vindicate
4 swords to plowshares
SB:
4 leyline of the void
4 ethersworn cannonist
4 pro-red white weenie from WW (?)
3 engineered plague
@ Mono
Deadguy isn't supposed to win quickly with Tombstalker. It's there to win you the game after you gain control so it's not very hard to play without Dark Ritual because you should be playing Duress/Thoughtseize, Hymns, and Sinkholes early game to gain tempo which puts a lot of cards in the GY. With respect to your list, I would run all 4 Wastelands. and I would rather have extra fetchlands over the Caves but I run TS and Tops. I think I would rather run Tainted Fields to produce both mana over Caves.
@ Mono
Deadguy isn't supposed to win quickly with Tombstalker. It's there to win you the game after you gain control so it's not very hard to play without Dark Ritual because you should be playing Duress/Thoughtseize, Hymns, and Sinkholes early game to gain tempo which puts a lot of cards in the GY. With respect to your list, I would run all 4 Wastelands. and I would rather have extra fetchlands over the Caves but I run TS and Tops. I think I would rather run Tainted Fields to produce both mana over Caves.
This thread ain't gonna die on my watch.
Taking a page from the UW Tempo thread, what do we think of Stoneforge Mystic in Deadguy Ale. She fits the curve, is instant card advantage, helps make weak critters (Bob and Gatekeeper) into proper threats, and most importantly is both ''Cool and New''.
Looking at my previous deck-list I'm thinking:
-4 Vampire Nighthawk
-1 Jitte
+3 Stoneforge Mystic
+1 other equipment (Sword of blah and blah, Bonesplitter, Lightning Greaves, ect.)
+1 Wasteland
Thoughts...
Based on your previous list, I think that the Nighthawks are your strongest creature and the Gatekeepers are the weakest as far as what they will do for you so I would cut Gatekeepers and keep Nighthawks. I would cut 1 Swamp and add the Wasteland anyway. I would remove a Jitte but also maybe a Duress to add in a SoFI and SoLS to have more of a toolbox type list since you have a search in the Mystic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mono_Thematic
Hey I absolutely love this deck type from testing it out with proxies. Anyways I built a budget list out of what I own or could easily borrow from a teammate. Here it is...
[DECK]
Land
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
1x Bayou
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
4x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Forest
Utility Creatures
4x Dark Confidant
3x Tidehollow Sculler
2x Quasali Pridemage
Beaters
3x Doran the Siege Tower
3x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Joten Grunt
Disruption
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Gerrard's Verdict
2x Duress
Removal
3x Path to Exile
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Pernicious Deed
Card Advantage / Manipulation
2x Skeletal Scrying
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard
3x Hypnotic Spector
2x Duress
10x TBA
[/DECK]
I hate how random the decklist looks on paper with all of those 2 of's but it plays well despite all of the low numbers. The deck runs more than enough removal to handle any aggro deck, just watch your life total carefully against decks with reach, looking at you zoo. With eight pieces of hand disruption main board and more in the side combo, mostly storm, should be winnable preboard and favorable post board. It should have a good game against control by combining the disruption and the beats.
@Elvtyrr:
I've play tested Tidehollow Sculler alot, and found that most decks have no problem killing him off and getting their card back. So I'd strongly suggest trading him in for some duress/thoughtseizes if you want more discard, or kitchen-finks if you want some utility.
O-Ring and Pernicious Deed don't look like they are going to play together too nicely. Surely Vindicate, Maelstrom Pulse, mortify, putrify, or more deeds are in your price range.
Skeletal Scrying and Jotun Grunts also seem a bit contradictory. Granted there is only 2 of each, but with 4 Bobs do you really need Skeletal Scrying at all?
To add to these queries, I'd first like to support the point Mono_Thematic made about Sculler; I haven't playtested him much, but my initial impressions after playing games with him seems to concur with Mono's views... Furthermore, in this format, a 2/2 isn't going to do much anyway - which leads to:
Why no Jitte? He's like Vampire Nighthawk, except that he costs abit more, dies far less easily... and can win you the game fast. Downside of course is that it does nothing on its own, but that's a fair tradeoff probably for a game-swinging equipment. Also, he makes Tidehollow Sculler better than Castigate, for Sculler now becomes far more dangerous to block or attack into...
Also, on Skeletal Scrying: I haven't really tested this card before so I'm not really sure (I've tried it once or twice but ended up dismissing it), but I'd like to ask if you often have enough life to play Scrying with, by the time you can cast it for a decent amount to make it better than Night's Whisper? (often by then you're at low health, and casting the Scrying would be suicidal, which led me to toss the card from the list) How often has it been effective?
@ Mono_Thematic: Yeah, the Tidehollow sculler used to be Descendant of kyimaro but the three slot was really crowded so I switched him out for now but yeah I can see what you mean about him being fragile... I will switch the O rings out for Vindicates, because of the anti-synergy with Deed.
@ Hummingbird TG: Well, until after the Columbus GP I will probably not have any jittes. I would run vampire nighthawk even if I had the jittes.
Regarding the Skeletal Scrying: Between the fetches and the spell count having a big graveyard is no problem, though it does occasionally clash with Joten grunt. This is not a card that I would intend to cast before turn four in almost any situation, I see it as a great late game draw spell. Most lists that I have seen on deckcheck.net run 4 bobs, 2 sylvan libraries and 2 skeletal scryings. I prefer top to the libraries because of the synergy with bob and lack of even more life loss.
Doran, Nighthawk and Grunt seem good..... But I'm thinking there is a better creature you could be running.... Oh, that's it, Tarmogoyf! Why not? Did I miss something in the thread that says Tarmogoyf is Bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvtyrr
Yeah the word "budget", in my post not the thread in general. I was honestly going to put out for Goyf this year but for some reason his price jumped from ~45 USD, last years price on troll and toad, to ~100 USD. I'm not paying $100 a piece for a creature that doesn't have the text "You win the game" in his text box, no matter how good or broken he is. Maybe when the extended season is over his price will fall but when push comes to shove he is nothing but an insanely expensive vanilla beat stick. Yeah he is hella awesome but I just can't justify buying him right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod
B/W TEMPO
4 Mother Of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jötun Grunt
4 Serra Avenger
2 Spectral Lynx
2 Sliver Knight
2 Ronom Unicorn
2 Gatekeeper Of Malakir
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
2 Vindicate
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Swamp
SB
4 Extirpate
1 Jötun Grunt
2 Vindicate
2 Absolute Law
2 True Believer
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Relic of Progenitus
For a straight B/W build I'm currently testing this list:
20x Landbase
4x Dark Confidant
2x Joten Grunt
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Descendant of Kiyomaro
2x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Gerrard's Verdict
2x Vindicate
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Skeletal Scrying
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
You might want to re-read the card then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvtyrr
The price of goyf aside I think that this deck can be successfully ran as a straight B/W without really hampering us.
Anyways I am running perish in my sideboard and am wondering if you think it is worth it to side in against a zoo player.
there is no need for perish m8..
just 4 jotan grunt + 4 stp :)
there is no need for perish m8..
just 4 jotan grunt + 4 stp :)
Deadguy Ale
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sword's To Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
1 Plains
6 Swamp
//Sideboard
4 Leyline Of The Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Smother
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Seal Of Cleansing
Dead Eva
1 Duress
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Withered Wretch
3 Tombstalker
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Bayou
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
//Sideboard
2 Extirpate
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the void
I'm sorry, did you just post a list with no explanation what-so-ever?
We frown on that here.
I also see that you have negative rep already with only 18 posts. Clean up your act or your time here will be short.
EDIT: Ninja'ed by the mod.
o m f g after 124.843 posts what to explain !?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten
MOREOVER can i post my final opinion of this deck or ? it could be here some1 who has read the whole thread and know about the deck...i suppose^^
bye lolQuote:
Originally Posted by 3ktor
I've been testing with the following build and I'm curious as to what you guys think.
//Creatures (14)
2 Tombstalker
3 Hypnotic Specter/Vampire Nighthawk
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Spectral Lynx
//Artifacts (6)
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
//Other Spells (20)
4 Night's Whisper
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
//Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Some explanations are in order: The idea of this build is to disrupt the opponent's mana base with Sinkholes, Wastelands, Ports, and Vindicates, while using Vial to simultaneously drop threats. So far I haven't had a problem with running 4x Wasteland and 4x Port. Urborg helps, and Vial keeps you from having to play creature/spell on one turn (which requires a lot of B mana usually).
The creature base is somewhat up in the air.
I have a problem with Confidant because he seems to die very easily, especially against Zoo which I see a lot of. He typically gets me 1 extra card, and he also has terrible synergy with Tombstalker (which I think is almost a necessary card given the size of the beaters we're up against in other decks). So I run Night's Whisper instead. If Confidant must go in, I think Mother of Runes must go in as well.
I like Spectral Lynx main because I see a lot of Zoo (regenerates from burn and blocks Goyf et al). Lynx is solid really against any deck that runs Goyf, as I feel a problem we inherit by sticking to B/W is dealing with an early large Goyf. If possible, we want to save our Vindicates for lands and use other cards to answer Goyfs/Necatls, and Lynx helps with that.
I've been using Hypnotic Specter, but I could see him replaced by Vampire Nighthawk. Without Dark Ritual, Hypie isn't so strong, and there's not much other discard in the deck. Alternatively, maybe a different 2 CC creature would be better here to fit with the Vial. Jotun Grunt comes to mind although I've never been a huge fan. Other ideas?
Nantuko Shade needs no explanation.
Lastly, I think Stoneforger Mystic has potential, since with Vial you can get Jitte/Sword by counterspells. It also gives you easier access to those equipments, which are often needed to keep up with Zoo/Goblins and the like.
I don't have anything substantial for the board yet. Ethersworn Canonist seems good.
Thoughts?
Ummm.. why do you disagree with perish in the sideboard? It is good versus every thresh and all of the NOPro builds that are running rampant right now. I am just trying to figure out if it is worth it to bring her in versus zoo as well?
Necro time !
Even though I test few other and more successful decks I just can’t let this deck go so I sleeved it up and used again last week in our small local tournament. Here is the decklist:
4 Scrubland
3 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Hypnotic Specter
3 Tombstalker
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Smother
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
1 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard:
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
2 Krosan Grip
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Perish
1 Nether Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
1st round: Dream Halls with Stifle (Magister Sphinx-Searing Wind-Tendrills of Agony kill)
First turn Thoughtseize shows me lands, Conflux and Trinket mage. I discarded Mage because I had more disruption and didn’t want him to get Sensei. Confidant get me CA & disruption and Stalker enough pressure to finish him fast.
Second game I kept hand with E.Tutor, Hymn, Confidant, Krosan Grip + lands. He played Island. I played Scrubland. He played Island, Petal, Show&Tell -> Dream Halls -> Conflux -> Magister Sphinx + Searing Wind.
Third game I started with Thoughtseize: Man-o'-War, Progenitus, Show&Tell, Stifle, Sapphire Medalion, 2 Islands. I discarded Man-o'-War (I had Perish for Progenitus). He played lands and Medalion. I played Hypnotic Specter which trigger he Stifle’d once. Then he went (don’t know why he waited one turn but it scared me as hell) for Show&Tell (he: Progenitus, me: Tombstalker). I attacked and played Perish. He was trying to draw something relevant but he found only S&T + Magister Sphinx which I Vindicated.
1-0, 2-1 in games.
2nd round: BG Dark Depths version with Chalice of the Void, without Crop Rotation.
First game he Sinkhole’d 3 of my lands but I had Sensei to find more of them. I was always ready with Wasteland for his combo. I managed to stick Confidant for a few turns (I removed 3 his, he couldn’t find removal for my third). He tried to go off but I had enough to stop him three times.
Second game was more brutal because I had multiple Wastelands and Swords for his combo and he couldn’t draw any disruption, only combo pieces.
2-0, 4-1 in games
3rd round: Reanimator
I opened with Ritual which resolved, and Thoughtseize: 3x Fow, Iona, Exhume, Lands. I chose Exhume and played Sensei which he countered. He had 2 fetches in play for a long time. I resolved Dark Confidant, but failed to resolve Vindicate (to cut him off mana after Wasteland -> fetch) and Tombstalker. When I managed to do it successfully again he responded with Entomb for Empyrial Archangel + Exhume. 3 Brainstorms + fetches help him nicely. I played Tarmogoyf and was ready to kill his creature but on upkeep Confidant killed me revealing the only left in deck card that could have killed me: Tombstalker.
Second game was so epic! I drew 3 ritual and 4 lands, mulligan into 2 wastelands, plains, 2 goyfs, stalker. Mull to 5 has lands to play so I kept. Soon after I saw thoughtseize-entomb-Iona-exhume combo. Good game. This was like 4th or 5th game in a row in which after SB I can’t find any graveyard hate piece even after mulligan to 5 and 4 draw steps later.
2-1, 4-3 in games
4th round: Fearie Stompy
He opened with Island. I resolved Ritual -> Hymn (Cloud of Fearies, FoW), Sensei. He played City of Traitors and Chalice of the Void. I played Hymn again (Sea Drake, Serendib Efreet). I played some creatures, he stole one using Sower of Temptation but I had Vindicate ready.
During second game he mulligan to 5 and I even drew Thoughtseize as a first draw and discarded Sower leaving lands and fows. I had cards he had to FoW and soon he was with nothing in hand and only 2-3 Islands because I wastelanded 2 or 3 two mana lands. Confidant + 2 Goyfs was enough.
3-1, 6-3 in games
5th round: UW Tempo
During this match I wasn’t focused as much as I should. I wasted my Wasteland trying to keep him off white when he had morph, 2 islands and tundra in play. I was like 115% sure it was Exalted Angel. Soon after he showed me Fathon Seer and I had to facepalm myself. I had Stalker and Goyf, he had Mother, Seer, Stoneforge Mystic + Sword of Fire & Ice. I was trying to rush him so I attacked with Stalker. He was trying to keep up the race so he tried to pro green Mystic to get me but I stopped him with StP. He was so shocked. Soon after game was over.
Game two he had 2 early Vials and 2 Dazes. I Plague’d clerics to kill Mom and Weathered Wayfarer. I had Deed out but for some sick reason I thought he was playing Stifle in No Goyf… So I wasted like 3 turns eating dmg waiting for discard or for him to tap out. When I cleared my mind and the board he turn later emptied his hand putting 2 Serra Avengers into play which I StP’d and Smothered in EOT. Two turns later I played Tombstalker. I was drawing lands from this time and he drew 3 FoW’s and clerics… so Stalker ate him. He didn’t draw any of his 6 StP/Paths all game and any of Wastelands both games (this was irrelevant).
4-1, 8-3 in games.
After 5 rounds top4 was:
Reanimator , BG Dark Depth, me, RB Goblins – everyone with 4-1 result
I had great time playing my favorite deck in Legacy and my opponents were friendly. 4-1 is very nice for a abandoned and forgotten deck ;) Only loss was vs. Reanimator which had 4 FoW’s and 3 Brainstorms to help him. I wasn’t even sad I saw Stalker after Confidant trigger. I won so many games using both this cards in the same deck so I just know sometimes I have to loose. He FoW’d my Sensei, what can you do. Not drawing graveyard hate and shitty mulligans was more frustrating. I couldn’t win that second game even using different cards in deck cause he had in hand Misdirection for Edict and FoW for Gatekeeper and N. Claim, R. Silence and E. Truth sided in as M.Tutors targets. My only chance was using Fearie Macabre cause he hadn’t Pithing Needles but even though this matchup is uphill battle. Some says it’s the best deck so ;P
I wanted to test singleton Forest and E. Tutor but I haven’t cast it all day. Forest was ok but possibly scary as a land on first hand. Singleton Smother and Deed were golden as usual. Nether Void was in SB cause I love this card and in game 2-3 I had 2 Tutors to find it. Without them I guess it would be S. Sacrament. Specters are ??? When I test 2 Gatekeepers in these slots I always want Specters and vice versa. They are nice mainboard help vs Iona naming white and Progenitus but mostly I want a little bit of disruption help that Specters provide. I’m on crossroad I guess.
Sorry for wasting your time ;P
~Deviruchi
Im getting more and more attracted by this deck lately and due to stoneforger mistyc i think it deserve some spot
what do you all think
creature 16
4 dark confidant
4 stoneforger mistyc
3 mother of rune
3 gatekeeper of malaki
2 abyssal persecutor
disrupt 10
4 thoughseize
4 sword to plowshare
2 vindicate (looking forward for adding a third one)
spell
4 bitterblossom
4 dark ritual
1 solas
1 sofi
1 basilik colar
1 umezawa's jitte
1 crucible
land 21
1 plain
1 ghost quarter
4 wasteland
6 fetch
4 scrubland
5 swamp
sideboard 15
3 engineered plague
3 yixlid jailer
4 extirpate
3 sadistic sacramwnt
2 ethersworn canonist ( might be runed halo)
I really didnt really had a bad matchup with this deck i find it hard againts specific card thaught: spell snare is one of them, the worst i guess
the odd choice explanation
mother of rune: to me equipement simply scream,Mother! it seem the logical choice
abyssal persecutor: this guy has no drawback he his in fact a 6.6 flying trample for 4 and i gotta say, ive never loose while my opponant had is live in negative ive always find a way to kill it, its in fact very easy and its a big hot potato turn 2 out of a dark ritual
gatekeeper of malakir: im always happy to see this guy a diabolic edict on a stick is the perfect creature for this kinda deck...he can be equip!!! very powerfull<
1 crucible of world: well im trying this one and so far it has been very good againts control matchup mostly but still in testing.
so what do you think.
@yougo
I haven't playtested your build, but two things jump out at me immediately.
1. 6 of your lands can't produce B, and yet you're playing Gatekeeper who is essentially BBB.
2. Only 4 sources of discard. IMO its discard/landestruction that separates this deck from the other aggro heavy decks. So if you're not going to maximize this advantage then it seems like you'd be better off playing zoo or dark-sligh.
=that being said, if its working for you then who am I to say. Personally I'd do...
-2 stoneforge mystic (you should have more equipment then mystics)
-1 SoLaS
-1 crucible (I don't like 1-of's that can't be tutored for)
+4 Inquistion of Kozilek or Hymn to Tourach
I do agree with you about Abyssal Persecutor. He's ideal in Deadguy because we have redundant means of removing him (StP, gatekeeper, vindicate) and he puts the opp on a fast clock while still recovering from hand/land disruption.
i made a small tournamant today 3 round 35 persons
i finish second, i want 3-0
wr astral slide 2-1
somehow pretty random deck he still manage to win game 1 and game 2 and 3 i simply wreck him
1 land belcher 2-1
agressive mulligan to see a thoughseize wich gave me a pretty solid 6 card hand thoughtseizing out etw out of a ritual and bob then mistyc and quick beatdown
game 2
turn 1 ritual plague turn 2 canonist but still somehow he had the chance of playing belcher and win the very next turn lucky baste...
game 2
agressive mull to 5 and keed a bullet proof hand agaits this shit, thoughtseizex2 plague ritual scrub
and jt gave me the game
elf combo 2-1
game one go off turn 3 to solid fr me i guess
game 2 plague for the win
game 3 jitte for the win
thats about it looking foward for next week
ho and i removed the only crucible from the deck and replace it with a vindicate
So how does the deck compare to Eva Green?
Deadguy seems to do very well again, with beasty results against various tier 1/1.5 decks. I'm kind of getting sick of Eva Green; it remains to be a problematic deck that doesn't have any space, nor the strategy to run Bob and/or some kind of library manipulation. The main problem is that the deck is way too draw dependent to be called a 'solid deck' and the lifeloss (sui principle) is just bad as well with many zoo and other agressive decks around these days.
Is it true that Deadguy lives up again? I'm thinking about switching from Eva to Deadguy!
@Deady
Here's my list and opinions on DGA verse Eva-Green
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...=207793&page=3
In summary, DGA has consistency while Eva Green has explosiveness. The choice comes down to your play-style and meta.
Mono_Thematic: most DGA builds run Dark Confidant (mostly as a 4-off), you don't...do you have any reasons for not playing him?
I'm contemplating running a variant of Deadguy in a few upcoming local tournaments, and my first take on a list is the following:
Mystic Pikula by colo:
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Spectral Lynx
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Oona's Prowler
2 Stromgald Crusader
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize 4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Urborg
4 Wasteland
SB:
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Aura of Silence
1 Engineered Plague
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Faerie Macabre
The plan is simple: Moderate to heavy disruption, card advantage via discard and Dark Confidant, combined with Stoneforge Mystic-powered beatdown.
The curve is intentionally low; Æther Vial will settle for two counters and make you worry less about how to resolve critters to do business.
Some cardchoices explained:
Oona's Prowler - while it's a welcome discard outlet for, e. g., Reanimator, I thing this could really be worth a shot, esp. once a Sword of Fire and Ice or Sword of Light and Shadow has been strapped onto it - discarding thee cards for preventing the Swords' trigger from going off isn't something one can afford too many times. Plus, it has evasion, beats for three, and fits the deck's curve just perfect.
Stromgald Crusader - grinds Iona-beatdown to a halt if she does hit the board naming White. Immune to Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares, which makes it a monster with Sword of Fire and Ice against just about anything. Evasion and pump on demand. I think it can be awesome in today's meta.
Thoughtseize - played over Inquisition of Kozilek and/or Duress because of its superior versatility. Due to Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Light and Shadow, life loss (see also: Dark Confidant) isn't supposed to matter much.
Spectral Lynx - this was made to be played in a list like this. Umezawa's Jitte + regeneration spells doom to opposing critters, no matter how fat they are. Can get around Nimble Mongoose, Tarmogoyf, Rhox War Monk, Quasali Pridemage, Terastodon, Progenitus et. al. all day long.
Mother of Runes - protects the equipment-wielding critter of the day from unfortunate mishaps.
Jotun Grunt - hates on graveyards (shrinking Tarmogoyf and Threshold-y stuff), vials in as a fat surprise blocker, beats for four, works fine with discard.
The board is modelled to be flexible enough to adapt to most threats in today's metagame in an efficient manner, without hating out a single matchup too much by not affecting many of the others.
Some SB card choices explained:
Faerie Macabre - esp. good against graveyard-based strategies (answering Exhume by discarding this, exiling your opponent's reanimation target(s), is indeed hilarious). Assumes a beating role if need be.
Diabolic Edict - handles otherwise next-to-unanswerable threats.
Enlightened Tutor - doubles as any of the enchantments and/or artifacts in the board. Also tutors for equipment if there's no hate you wish for. One of White's strongest SB options ever, imho.
Engineered Plague - Tribal's worst nightmare.
Thorn of Amethyst - significantly slows down Storm Combo and/or Belcher.
Ethersworn Canonist - see above. Best-of-class hate in conjunction with Mother of Runes (barring the occasional Virtue's Ruin).
I'm not sure if Hymn to Tourach is warranted. Sure, it's one of the best cards ever printed, but maybe a split between, e. g., Inquisition of Kozilek and another critter would be a better fit for the rest of this list. I'm quite sure that not running Dark Ritual is the right choice for the list, as consistentcy matters more than potential explosiveness in today's Legacy imho.
Comments appreciated :)
@Deady concerning Bob:
Bob takes up all your mana on T2 for a 2/1 body. If he survives two turns you get two cards, maybe deals 4 damage, and you lose x life.
Night's Whisper takes up all your mana on T2 and immediately gets you two cards and you lose 2 life.
So it comes down to how much you value that 4 damage. My build runs 'stalkers (a 4 round clock) and persecutors (a 3 round clock), so dealing 4 damage doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot to me. What does matter to me is consistantly hitting my 3rd land drop, digging into disruption, and getting beaters onto the table while the opp. is still reeling from the discard. For all these things Night's Whisper/Sign in Blood is just plain better.
Granted I have a LOT of burn/aggro/aggro-burn in my meta, and it is because of this that I have no faith in Bob's ability to last even a single round, let alone 2. Some people say that he still serves a purpose by soaking up removal spells like a sponge, but my response to that is I play 12 sources of discard for that role (and it works just fine).
Bob is to Hippie as Night's Whisper is to Hymn (I'll probably get destroyed for typing that, but oh well).
Here's a deck I've been running for the past couple months. Seems like Deadguy Ale to me! hahaha
22 Lands
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
7 Swamp
3 Plains
4 Wasteland
16 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Equipment
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
18 Spells
3 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Duress
Sideboard
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lightning Greaves
2 Innocent Blood
2 Perish
Not sure on the board, I see more Lands than I'm comfortable with and Greaves is good there, but I'm not sure if Perish is overkill or not.
So far from just reading the past few posts I don't see any Bitterblossom. It's stolen me many games by giving me chump blockers or just letting me swarm through the air. I originally designed this as a variant of 'The Gate' that splashes for STP and Stoneforge Mystic, and this is what happened over time.
I was thinking about Spectral Lynx today, he seems really good in a deck like this. I want to put a Basilisk Collar on him and stare down Goyfs all day. With decks like New Horizons consistently Top 8-ing where I play this seems like a good way to fight larger stupid guys. Also, I was thinking about using Retribution of the Meek instead of Perish in the board (possibly main). We don't really run any power-4-or-greater creatures (except when carrying a Sword), so it will usually take down an army of Goyfs, but also hits stuff like Inkwell and Emrakul, which are other problem cards, and even Tombstalker. I also haven't tested Aether Vial, but it might be a good call. I played in a small local event today and lost 2 matches to terrible land draws (3 Wastelands and 1 colored land, and both against mono-colored decks to boot!) Aether Vial would help me get around that. Also, Vialing in Sculler at the end of opponent's draw step seems really good (especially after something like a Mystical Tutor). Also I might try running Hymns instead of Duress (I really like Cabal Therapy, and has good synergy with Persecutor and against Dredge).
I just want to chime in to say that I just won a small Vintage tournament with my Legacy version of Deadguy running the Hexmage/Depths combo. I think this version of the deck may merit some discussion, as it gives the deck some explosiveness without interfering with the disruption/control angle much. Here's my list (I believe I posted it several pages back, but don't want to make everyone go digging for it):
Lands
7 Swamp
4 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
3 Wasteland
4 Dark Depths
Creatures
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Tombstalker
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
Spells
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
2 Swords to Plowshares
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
4 Extirpate
3 Ethersworn Canonist
--Selected card choices--
Depths/Hexmage: Everyone already knows how this combo works. The combo is fairly fragile, but is not the core of the deck so if it gets disrupted or you never see it, not a big deal. It does help with some otherwise bad matchups by giving you a potential T3 win though. Depths is completely useless on it's own, but Hexmage can deal with all kinds of things like Planeswalkers, Gemstone Mine, Chalice, EE, etc.
Nighthawk: I hate to let my beloved Hippies go, but Nighthawk has really proven to be more versatile. It can stall while you look for the combo or a Tombstalker, gain life to offset Bob, or sometimes just beat for the win.
Bob + Tombstalker: Yes, this is often considered crazy. I have flipped 8 damage several times, but just as many times I've won off of one or both of these guys. This deck can fill the yard easily, so multiple Tombstalkers is rarely an issue. I would like a slightly better chance of not killing myself though, so I have some alternatives in mind.
SDT: I've been told to replace these with Jittes, but when they hit play they're just so useful. Digs for the combo and makes Bob your friend again.
Land count: It's pretty low, but is rarely an issue with the low curve + ritual. The main drawback is that you really can't keep an opening hand with less than two lands, the numbers just aren't in your favor.
Extirpate: I feel like I don't see this card used much anymore and I really don't understand why. There are enough removal/discard effects in here that you can easily break their whole game plan very early. Remember it can hit nonbasic lands, which can be totally devastating against some decks. I mainly board it in against control, but it's great against a lot of decks.
--Potential Alternatives--
The biggest changes I'm considering now are:
-2 Tombstalker
+2 Abyssal Persecutor
-2 Thoughtseize
+2 Cabal Therapy
I feel like this could make the deck a bit less Suicide-ish. I also see graveyard hate sided in against me in most matchups, so this could help with that.
--Bad Matchups--
Zoo is bad because of how quickly they can deal damage, combined with the amount of damage you can deal yourself. The depths combo helps a lot here, just try to wait until you have StP backup, as they usually have PtE. Going to 40 doesn't guarantee the win, but you have a better mid/late game.
Merfolk isn't great, Plagues help but getting them to stick before you get killed is tough
Combo is probably the worst matchup, they can usually go off before you can swing with Marit Lage. Canonist helps but doesn't really guarantee anything. Sometimes a turn one Ritual->Nighthawk can keep you out of Tendrils range though.
Reanimator is bad. Well, I guess it's bad b/c I haven't had a chance to test against it yet. I think the SB makes games 2 and 3 possible, but I still think this has to go in the bad category.
Stax is rough, especially when they go first. There just aren't that many permanents to try and race them with.
--Good/Even Matchups--
Control is fairly even, but if played correctly seems to be slightly favorable. I generally side out the entire Depths combo for Extirpates and Leylines if the opponent is Canadian Thresh. If you bide your time and lead with discard, they can rarely do anything about a couple Tombstalkers. Most only run a few creatures, so Extirpate can win games.
Aggro Loam is slightly favorable b/c of all the graveyard hate in the SB, same with Lands but slightly less so for some reason. It seems to draw into more answers even without the Loam engine running. I usually board out most of the discard here.
Goblins is interesting, game one is usually something like 70/30 in their favor, but an early Gatekeeper/swords and a lot of discard can sometimes slow them down enough. Much better after boarding in E. Plagues.
Dredge is usually auto-lose game 1, but auto-win games 2 and 3. Board in Extirpate and Leyline in place of all the discard, since they'll be boarding in bounce effects, Extirpate gives you a little extra protection. Note that you can sometimes pull off game one with Hexmage, they can usually recover though.
I play this deck like proactive control, leading with as much discard as possible before dropping critical things like Bob or the combo. If the combo is disrupted, there's usually a Tombstalker waiting to follow. It's a blast to play, and I hope this list can inspire some new ideas and maybe convert a few more Deadguy players.