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Yes, and part of the problem with Blood Moon is that it can be too little, too late. Against RUG, great if we get a turn 2 Blood Moon, but if they get a turn 1 Delver, we still have to race and find an answer to that threat on board (although it does shut down their Pierce and Daze).
How do you explain the lack of answer to Karakas? Meta decision?Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Probably some ignorance "we beat maverick anyway". Also a lot of people in SCG belive that RUG is the best deck in legacy and therefore Maverick is not as popular as in europe.
But if I were expecting a lot of RUG, I would run Blood Moon. Unless our counter-suit is strong enough without it :)
Ok, thanks for the explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
I'll try out swapping one for a preordain and see how it goes.
Regarding Blood Moon: While I see Phillip's point about it oftentimes not being enough, I find it almost vital in beating BUG Control, as they usually just run 1-2 basics and rarely fetch for it, Blood Moon just wrecks their game completely. It's all a meta-choice though.
Pithing does do wonders against Maverick as that's an answer to both Karakas and Knight and it's an answer that can stop decks that have problematic cards but with a fairly non-greedy manabase
Do you run Leyline of Sanctity against BUG (for Liliana/Edict)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbin
What do you mean by the fairly non-greedy manabase part?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbin
Thanks,
W_W
Meta decision sounds fair. But a lot of them play some kind of sweeper. With sweepers we have a new way of winning:Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
1) Let them over-extend.
2) Counter their main threats
3) Sweep the rest
4) Play Sneak Attck
5) Beat Karakas with SneakAttack ( 2 red mana + 1 Emrakul, you guys know how to do it
Yes BUG and TA are some bad MUs indeed. But as for the time being they are no meta factor yet. BUG Control just folds to Canadian Threshold and has a very bad MUs vs Dredge and StormCombo. If he meta-game doesn't change I do not see a reason to worry about this MUs as other fix meta-factors suppress this decks.
At the moment I am working on a decent sideboarding-plan for the friggen mirror.
Greetings
I do run Leyline of Sanctity, yes =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
Blood Moon wrecks decks that have greedy mana-bases such as RUG Delver, BUG Control and similarly. However, against decks like U/W Control (which is a fairly good match-up anyway, but I digress), a deck that plays a great deal of basics and often 1-2 Karakas (and Tundras of course) Blood Moon is not a very good card to bring in.
This is where Pithing Needle shines: It can shut down the one problematic land they have (As the Mana denial part of Blood Moon would carry little significance in this match-up) as well as Sensei's Divining Top and any Miracle cards they have.
Blood Moon can be a complete blow-out against certain decks but having read the discussion about Pithing Needle in this thread I have actually come to believe that might be a very good choice as well as it is much more versatile in the way it can deal with opposing decks.
@Philipp802: I agree about BUG Control not really being a huge part of the meta and probably not really worth spending too much time thinking about. Against them I've found that my 2 Main-deck Jace 2.0 work wonders if it sticks though.
Against the mirror I'd actually consider Through the Breach, siding out Show and Tells. Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack is a bit dodgy but could work. I also once again feel the need to be an advocate for out spots main; a Chaos Warp or a Jace main can save a game against Sneak Attack.
This is Jonathan Hickerson from the Nashville Open. I have long lurked this thread, and you all deserve some thanks for influencing my deck decision for this weekend, so thanks.
I noticed the discussion about Blood Moon, a card I have long disliked in the sideboards of U/R combo decks. I understand that in the context of this deck, it shuts down Karakas, which is a problematic card, but I do not feel like the card does anything beneficial to actually advance your plan to kill them. Without any answer, Sneak Attack beats Karakas, and Show and Tell into Gristelbrand probably beats it. In my testing for this tournament, I lost to Karakas zero times despite playing against it several times - you just have to adjust your play if you can.
Philip Dickman's Blue Blasts and Pyroclasms are bad. He was in a rush before the tournament and copied McDarby's sideboard from last week. I tried to give him my sideboard, but they were literally putting up seatings as I was doing this, so he was unable to upgrade. Don't play Blue Blast or Pyroclasm.
Play Through the Breach if you aren't already. It's super sweet.
Thanks again. I'll probably go back to lurking, but I'm happy to discuss my experience if anyone wants to. Thanks again for your unknowing input.
Tournament report please :-) :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by CephalidBreakfast
Congratulations on 1st place!
Congratz! Why don't you join us in our everyday discussion about that deck?
Yes, Through The Breach is my top-canditate for my sideboard aswell. It would probably take the slot of EchoingTruth, considering my sideboard. It does so many things, the main of them are:
1) Blanking Needle on SneakAttack
2) Overloading on buisness-spells - useful for the UW Control-MU if they drop a Canonist
3) Can replace Show and Tell in the Mirror, when you do not want to drop a Show and Tell
Greetings
Played on Saturday at Worlds Collide in Oshawa, in their monthly Mox tourney, taking down the event, and winning a Mox Saphire. This makes 4x events played with this archetype, top 8'ing all 4 and winning three, winning two mox's.
I ran my previously posted list, with a slight tweak of -1 Volcanic and adding the fourth Griselbrand.
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Griselbrand
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Force of Will
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Lotus Petal
4x Sneak Attack
4x Show and Tell
3x Misdirection
3x Daze
2x Spell Pierce
2x Intuition
SB:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Grafdiggers Cage
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Blood Moon
2x Echoing Truth
Round vs Burn:
G1- Turn 3 Emrakul gets the job done, as I use Daze and Pierce to slow down his dome shots.
G2- I open with Leyline of Sanctity, and he slumps in his chair. He does get a decent turn 1/2 Goblin guide beat down going, but a turn 4 Griselbrand shuts the party down, and beats down for the victory.
1-0
Round 2 vs High Tide (a member here on the Source)
G1- I mulligan to 6 on the play, knowing my opponent is on High Tide. I keep a hand of Tomb, Petal, Emrakul, Show, Intuition, and Ponder. I decide to go for it turn 1, and he does not have the FoW. Im fine with this hand an play, as mulling to 5 or playing more conservatively with that 6 seems bad against High Tide.
G2- I go for an early Show, which meets a Flusterstorm, I have three active counters in hand, but concede this counter battle, as I have another Show. The next turn I draw another blue card and have sculpted a crazy hand with 2x active FoW, and a REB. I go for the Show, and a counter war ensues, when the dust settles I have an Emrakul in play, but he has an open turn to go off. He draws, cantrips, and scoops them up.
2-0
Round 3 vs UWG Delver
G1- He has a 2x double FoW, 2x Daze hand that stops my Show. He setups CB/Top lock, shutting me out by keeping a Natural Order and Krosan Grip....hmmm, ok...
G2- He keeps a heavy control hand, and gets his Top/CB going, while beating with a Goyf.
2-1
Round 4 vs Nic Fit
G1- I get an early Emrakul into play, and win.
G2- I mulligan to 6, and shredded by Explorer/Therapy, and scoop after playing draw go for 5 turns with his Liliana in play.
G3- I keep a good grip with Leyline of Sanctity, Tomb, Petal, Fetch, 2x Brainstorm, and Ponder. The Leyline locks out his early discard, and he is forced to Cabal Therpay himself to get Veteran Explorer online. He gets his lands and sits on four mana, but can't seem to get anything going. I play out Ponder, and brainstorms and only find a Show, with the cards being utter rags. I eventually get stuck under my Brainstorm pile and have to play draw/go for a bit. I daze and FoW a few of his plays and finally find Griselbrand who ends the match very quickly by drawing me Petals, Sneak, and big poppa E.
3-1
Round 4 vs BGw Junk
ID into top 8.
3-1-1
Top 8 vs B/W
G1- This event was run with competive REL, giving my opponent (and all subsequent opponents) the play. Sadly for him, he felt the raw power of this archetype, in two of the fastest games I have played. I stick a turn one Show/Emrakul, he scoops.
G2- I open with Leyline, and he plays Mox, Land, Hymm, and hits two of my lands. No worries, I draw, play Tomb, Petal , Show, Emrakul....go. He draws hoping to hit an edict, but fluffs and scoops.
4-1-1
Top 4 vs U/W Miracle Control
G1- I'm paired against a buddy, who is fresh from Pro Tour Barcelona, and co-creator of another buddies PT deck, one Alexander Hayne, PT Barcelona Champion. Not surprisingly, he is playing a spicy UW Miracle control deck. I keep a hand of 2x Show, Emrakul, Tomb, Fetch, Ponder, FoW. I go for Show turn 2, which he allows, putting oblivion ring into play. Boo. We draw/go for awhile and I try another Show\Emrakul with 2x FoW, he is able to win the counter war, leaving us with a card each. After a few more turns I stick a Sneak/Grisel, and he goes for Swords. I activate Yawgmoths Bargain and draw an epic fail; 6x Lands and a daze.....ouch. I lose Grisel, and he eventually gets there with a Jace and Snappy.
G2- I stick an early Show/Em, but he has O-ring again. We draw/go and I stick a Sneak/Em, blowing his board up, including o-ring, and shuffle my dudes back in. I draw a ponder next turn and find the win in another Noodle Monster.
G3- I win a mid game counter war and stick Show/Grisel. On his turn I draw 14 cards and obviously get Sneak/Em the next turn.
5-1-1
Finals vs Affinity
G1- I'm playing against another buddy who has allot of success on the SCG open series, and he has the play. His turn one is sick, he vomits his hand on the table and casts Thoughtcast. I'm dead turn 3 to a Cranial/Etched Champion.
G2- He has a slower, but still aggressive hand, but I'm able to lock things up with a turn 4 Griselbrand.
G3- we both mulligan and I end things fast with a turn 3 Show/Em.
6-1-1
I also like Through the Breach, great tool vs the mirror and Re-animator.
I think my next SB will be something along the lines of:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Grafdiggers Cage
3x Echoing Truth
2x Through the Breach
2x Spell Pierce
1x Flusterstorm
Regarding Through the Breach: I'm thinking about perhaps cutting 2 blasts in the board for 2 Bosejus if I'm boarding Through the Breach as sometimes you'll want to board out the Sneak Attacks and then you can instead for an uncounterable win-con. This mainly for slower match-ups where more sculpting is necessary, thoughts?
Trouble is, it's CiPT, non-fetchable, non-color producing, and a real blank in the SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbin
This deck has more than enough counter options to help resolve the combo.
Uh, what?Quote:
G2- I open with Leyline, and he plays Mox, Land, Hymm, and hits two of my lands. No worries, I draw, play Tomb, Petal , Show, Emrakul....go. He draws hoping to hit an edict, but fluffs and scoops.
Also congrats to Jon Hickerson for taking down the open last night!
Sorry, should have been, "no opening Leyline", my apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfeingersh
Concerning SB in general: Against a lot of decks you have to board out the intuitions, so I would be careful to dilute the deck too much with anti-hate. For example boarding 4 leylines and 3 blood moon.
I wrote before about Leyline of Sanctity and my tests to cut it, so I can play basically blood moon and Pithing needle. I do not board Leyline in against todays BUG control (because they do not run hymn). It also does not shut down Innocent blood, so just for 4 discard and liliana it is not worth diluting your deck too much, since Blood moon is an all star against BUG.
So what I am testing at the moment is running 2-3 divert. Along with the 3 misdirection maindeck that could be enough for discard based disruption strategies. The advantage of divert is that you can also bring it in vs. esper or "light" discard decks where it works very well vs. thoughtseize but can also just be another spell pierce in a counter war.
I tested a little bit with Boseiju and did not like it. If they know you have it RUG, UW will save their wastelands and having a colorless land that comes into play tapped is very bad for tempo. I would much rather have redblast over Boseiju.
I did not consider through the breach yet. Overloading on business is surely good for the canonist situation Philip described. However in non-canonist situations, the disadvantage of having 2 business spells over 1 business spell with backup is that you give them another draw step and time to reuse their mana. Can anyone describe the situations, MU where through the breach is necessary/good? Needle for Sneak attack and canonist is not enough for me.
I would not play this deck without LoS. It saves you against Nic Fit, Junk, BW, and any deck running targeted discard. Not to mention shutting off burn, key removal, Jace, Liliana, Tendrils, Brainfreeze, etc;Quote:
Originally Posted by catmint
Running Divert and MisD, is complelty redundant, with Divert being a really inferior option.
As for through the Breach, it is great against the mirror, and re-animator. The more results this deck posts, the more influence it will have on the meta game, and you have to have the technology to adjust.