Miracle Control

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

3) Why no Vendilion Cliques? Because I disliked them for quite a while. Yes this slows this deck down even more, but we will have to deal with it.

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Has anyone been testing "I really never want to go to time" builds with more guys and/or Factories and/or a bigger guys-in-the-board plan? 2x Baneslayer is interesting (as an alternative to SFM, Fettergeist, or Goyf, as a few pages back), but expensive - bringing him in as an I'm-low-on-time plan is not a good one against (e.g.) RUG Delver.

This may mean veering off an an ideal decklist in a clock-less vacuum, but I'm thinking of playing in a tournament this weekend and wondering if any lists/configurations are floating around.

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Originally Posted by anwei

Has anyone been testing "I really never want to go to time" builds with more guys and/or Factories and/or a bigger guys-in-the-board plan? 2x Baneslayer is interesting (as an alternative to SFM, Fettergeist, or Goyf, as a few pages back), but expensive - bringing him in as an I'm-low-on-time plan is not a good one against (e.g.) RUG Delver.

This may mean veering off an an ideal decklist in a clock-less vacuum, but I'm thinking of playing in a tournament this weekend and wondering if any lists/configurations are floating around.

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2 Cliques
3 SCM
3 Factories
2 EtA
Should make sure you'll be able to use Jace's BSs aggressively. And get there via combat dmg.

Basically just cut 1 EE and 1 Shackles from the list I posted above making room for 2 Cliques. Then cut Volcs and A. Ruins for 3 Factories and there you go. The result will be a little less powerful on the control side, but going the going to time issue should be solved.

At the whole GP I finished 10-20 minutes befor the end. Had enough time to go to the toilet + eat something. I played 2 Clique but NEVER won with them. Always won via Entreat/Jace. All you need is don't play like a scrub. Do not make any stupid moves that longer the game. Do not think about a S.Top decision for 5 minutes, fetch, if it's resolved but the Spell down you want to play, saves time. All in all I can only:"Learn to play the deck, and you will hardly go to time, and if, it's not your fault!"

Greetings

@Maxx: Congrats on the solid finish at the GP! One question about your deck. I was curious how often you went to those 3x Thoughtseizes in your sideboard?

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Originally Posted by JimmyC27

@Maxx: Congrats on the solid finish at the GP! One question about your deck. I was curious how often you went to those 3x Thoughtseizes in your sideboard?

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Thanks! I've boarding in the four discard spells against Sneak and Show, Reanimator, Storm, High Tide and Belcher, as well as a couple in some control mirrors. They were originally in my sideboard for the Sneak and Show matchup when it was really popular, and they just kind of stuck.
REB / Pyroblast might be better in some matchups, but I like that the discard is proactive and that you can kind of spread out your mana usage over several turns and don't have to keep lots of mana open. They are of course great against Merfolk, so if that becomes really popular, it might be time to switch.

Hi guys, I'm seeing that people are splited between some versions:

CB Maindeck , UWr , UWb or UW(b) with EE.

I just wanna share some thoughts and give my 2cents.

I'm playing a UW(b) version, with EE and Humility Maindeck, black is just for a EE for 3.I'm NOT playing discards , CB Maindeck or Cliques.I left my CB at Sideboard, my line of thought is that CB are good against Canadian , Burn , Reanimator , Elfs, Storm and it is ok against Stoneblade.I'm saying this because my 2cc and 3cc card count.

I was especting a open field and many Sneak and Shows on my metagame.

So I played 2 tournaments on last 2 weeks.

A 7,5k reais(~4k dollars) tournament, where I won.
Played against:

Round 1 - UB Control(1-2, lost to more mishra's/wastes and keep 2 land + top hand but never saw the 3° land before I got wastelanded twice)

Round 2 - Ur Delver(2-1, losing to Delver + Daze + FoW + 3 Bolts on g1)

Round 3 - Burn(2-1, mull to 6 on draw without removals but Top , pierce , CS and lands but got killed by 3 goblin guides on T2)

Round 4 - Esperblade(2-0)

Round 5 - SneakShow(2-0)

Round 6 - SneakShow(2-0)

Round 7 - Maverick(ID)

The top8 was: Canadian , 2x Maverick , 2xGoblins , 2xSneakShow , Uw Miracle.

Quarterfinals - SneakShow (2-0)

Semifinals - Goblins , we splited the top4 prizes (~600US for each), and the goblin guy already had an "invitational invite"(srry for my bad english).I think I would be a bad matchup but with a Humility MD and he not playing Vials but moxes(a very aggro version to race combos) could give me a better chance.

Finals - Maverick(ID on Round 7) (2-0)
Won despite being tired and making a horrible play which cost my Jace on the last match.

The other tournament was a GP - São Paulo side event, 8-man.

Won against W(u) Death and Taxes (2-0) , Canadian ******** (2-0) , Elfcombo(2-0).

So after playing these tournaments I got this conclusion:

Counterbalance Maindeck would be good on ~half of the matchs I played, but even on those matchs the deck can easily win without it(the exception would be Ur Delver and Burn), so for me Counterbalance should be a sideboard card, since you are playing on the control spectrum you need to be very versatile, also the legacy metagame(at least where I play) is wide open so counterbalances loses some of it value.
I can see the reason to use a Red sideboard, being very good on the control mirror.Maybe now that UW miracle begin to be more popular.

Also, the maindeck Humility , and the 2of EE where golden all day.Being able to "Ops I win" against reanimator and Sneak and Show, EE were solid as spot removal 5-6 or a versatile card answer.

I was playing with 23 lands, 1 karakas , 3 mishra's, 7 fetchs, 6 basics.Maybe I will try to fit a second Karakas(to deal with reanimator/Teeg) or a Dust Bowl(Cavern of Souls/other stuff) really don't know what to cut and if they are really necessary.

Someone has tested snare instead of pierce? Pierce seems an unstable card for me...sometimes it's nice, others it's horrible. And as your games tend to take time, it's very probable you will draw it as a dead card.

I preffer spell pierce over spell snare, for creatures with mana cost 2 we have a lot of removal on other hand spell pierce is better vs combo, for example is not a dead card against sneak and show and morever its better vs green suns zenith, choke, vs planeswalkers, thoughtseizes, cabal therapies, etc...

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Originally Posted by anwei

Has anyone been testing "I really never want to go to time" builds with more guys and/or Factories and/or a bigger guys-in-the-board plan? 2x Baneslayer is interesting (as an alternative to SFM, Fettergeist, or Goyf, as a few pages back), but expensive - bringing him in as an I'm-low-on-time plan is not a good one against (e.g.) RUG Delver.

This may mean veering off an an ideal decklist in a clock-less vacuum, but I'm thinking of playing in a tournament this weekend and wondering if any lists/configurations are floating around.

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If you're getting into the bigger-guys-the-board thought, then I want Gideon ALL DAY. We run enough lands to actually hit 5 mana consistently, and he's a house versus most decks, dodges your own Terminus (unless you play it while he's a 6/6), and can do more than just swing if you really need him to.

Hi,
I'm just to share my thinking on my build:

I'mm looking at 3 different configurations:
- Cunning Wish Balance Configuration
- No balance Configuration
- Balance No Wish Configuration

Points:
I see lot of cavern and lot of vials, cavern is even played in maverick so they can lock you even with c.balance on play.

HAving all this in mind, I'd focus on the Balance No wisj Configuration.

Thelist is 22 lands , 3 spierce, 2 c.spell 4 jace, 3 terminus and generals, 4 C.BAlance
It has no vendilions and as Cost 3 but, I needed a cost 3, so I came to the conclusion of Not wanting cunning (cuning is handle mirrors, and has some tricks too via E.Tutor) and needed some answer vs Cavern or Vial,
So I included 2 B2B and suddently this card shut ups lot of mirrors, now there is no need to play wastelnds and now all will be basic lands, by other hand and having in mind that the Red splash vesrion has more success Im thinking in moving to Blood moon,
So finally Im testing 1 B2B 1 E.Tutor and seems to me ok, I know its is better vendilion in mirroror other muctch ups.

The cunning version is very versatyle, as cunning will be that fulsterm EoT or E.Tutor or surgical without thinning the deck. its thougs to win the mirrors, althouth I haven0t included Red yet, as Cunnig -REB can be key in mirror.

Probably the NoN C.Balacen version could be best but I love playing and locking C.B. and now that miracle is online you can play C.B. I'm also looking at how E.Tutor can helps. The reason: I can play 4 snapcaster and 0 Vendilion. and let E.Explosives in.

A question: why you usually run 3 Jaces?
I find 4 the correct number. I mean sometimes is all you need, is usefull to put terminus on top even if jace is going to die or entreat , it is useful to put up creatures that will not be played because of c.b. it also has synergy with c.b. and in cojuntion with Entreat is the 2nd and last win con, (I dont play vendilion and snapcaster is not considered.)

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

I'mm looking at 3 different configurations:
- Cunning Wish Balance Configuration
- No balance Configuration
- Balance No Wish Configuration

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I can almost assure you running Intuition is way better than cunning wish. It takes up very little deck space...Basically a couple green mana sources, life from the loam, engineered explosives (which many lists already run at least one), and an Academy Ruins (which again, many lists are starting to pick up). Now that pile really crushes the mirror. Loam has insane synergy with top, letting you fetch and drege 3 every turn, letting you see 6 cards. Additionally, you can get more creative based on targets. I think at least 2 maze of ith are quite good too, because it makes Intuition way stronger in the creature matchups, but more importantly Maze is a great answer to a Batterskull and can power up Terminus by forcing your opponent to have 2+ creatures to damage you. Don't forget that you can just use it to tutor for a swords to plowshares, top, counterbalance (post board), force of will, or usually whatever you need. Intuition has a lot more power and saves board room compared to cunning wish, in my opinion. I'm working on putting a list together which uses intuition and is concerned a little more about board control than average lists and have been pretty satisfied so far.

Also, I agree on 4 Jaces. That guy is just too good. 4 makes it easier to pitch to force, have him countered, or answer an opposing Jace. Besides the situation where you're stuck with two Jaces in hand without the mana to play him, if you can land one you can always use his brainstorm effect to get rid of the other. I would not run less than 4 right now.

The red splash is awesome, and I think there's a tendency to downplay the importance of sulfur elemental compared to REB. It has less applications than the latter, but it is so gamebreaking vs maverick and esper blade (the latter being a difficult MU), especially as they often board out their removal.

Life from the Loam would make it a 4 color deck (UWrg).

Quite nasty to fix with Back to Basics..

My friend took a tweaked version of my miracles list to the top 8 of the SCG this weekend.

He was very well set up for the mirror (beat Reid Duke, A sourcer who I forget and Max Brown). Didn't get to baneslayer anyone =(.

Lost to Josh Cho (merfolk) in the quarters, but I think thats a close matchup generally.

I wrote a strategy article about the deck and a tournament report from GP Ghent for GatheringMagic. You can find the strategy article here and the tournament report here.
Probably not much new for those familiar with the deck, just thought I would mention this if anyone was interested.

Thanks Maxx, it was an awesome read, and good job on the gtop 8, I love your list!

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Originally Posted by Poron

Life from the Loam would make it a 4 color deck (UWrg).

Quite nasty to fix with Back to Basics..

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Honestly, how many back to basics have you seen recently? In fact, I rarely have seen that card ever in legacy. I've played 4 color control decks for a long time, and the mana base has always been pretty solid. Wasteland is always a concern, but you're usually always running enough non-basics that you'll draw one to two normally, so wastelands will have targets, regardless of the number of basics you run.

CREATURES
3 SCM

INSTANTS 16
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 counterspell
3 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares

SORCERIES
4 Thoughtseize
3 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels

ARTIFACTS 7
4 Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Vedalken Shackles

PLANESWALKER 3
3 Jace

LANDS 22
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas

SIDEBOARD
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
3 CB
1 Timley Reinforcements
1 Humility
1 Grafdigger’s cage
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Porphyry Nodes


I've been thinking about replacing the Shackles with a Personal Tutor so that I have another way to find either miracle when I need to or a Timely out of the board, it's also pretty easy to flashback with SCM helping with the card disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by rxavage

list

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Very nice list!
I'm not sure Personal Tutor would be an improvement. Enlightened Tutor might make just as much sense (-1 EE, -1 Thoughtseize, +1 ET, +1 CB) - but even that looks suboptimal on paper. Ponder would be more beneficial by helping you to find whatever you need plus providing an optional shuffle for Top w/o C/DA :cool:

What I like about Shackles though is that it is a virtual clock more often than not.

Edit: @22 land I'd definitely recommend a Ponder over every non-land card.

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Originally Posted by klaus

Very nice list!
I'm not sure Personal Tutor would be an improvement. Enlightened Tutor might make just as much sense (-1 EE, -1 Thoughtseize, +1 ET, +1 CB) - but even that looks suboptimal on paper. Ponder would be more beneficial by helping you to find whatever you need plus providing an optional shuffle for Top w/o C/DA :cool:

What I like about Shackles though is that it is a virtual clock more often than not.

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Thanks. Personal tutor won't be replacing Shackles. I'd love to be able to fit a ponder or 2 but I really like where I'm sitting, I just hope I don't get any unintentional draws.