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ET+bear.
when you are on the play the best is opening tutor.
you:
turn 1: land go
opp turn 1: discard, you resp by playing the tutor
turn 2 you: bear.
of course it's not GG anymore.
when you are on the draw this is really to slow, discard turn 1= you'r out, no discard but kill turn 2: you'r dead
that's why I'm thinking, on G2 you can have a little good MU
G3 this is still rape.deck
It's certainly not a favorable matchup, but G3 isn't always as bad as you make it sound like (depending on how much hate you have, of course).
First of all, most discard you see combo using (such as in Storm combo) is Duress, which can't get a bear if you just open with one. Second, they're not always going to god hand T1 Discard / T2 kill you.
Of course you won't always have a hate bear / tutor in your opener either.
This is why I like Leyline + Bears though. If you open with Leyline, you get so much more breathing room (it protects you in the situation you described, for example).
Even if they do Turn 1 discard, turn 2 go nuts - it's just that, the NUTS. Can't win them all, and this deck isn't designed to be able to stop such games. I run Silence as added measure against combo, which if nothing else, buys a turn when we're on the draw. Usually it's too slow even then, but it helps a ton against slower combo decks that don't run discard like Elves and High Tide.
If Storm Combo starts, you normally lose.
Shit happens. Let's just hope they draw badly game 3.
Yeah pretty much. This deck doesn't normally run black or blue, so you can't really expect to have that much game against combo.
GP Amsterdam is going to finish and we have more coverage from Wizards.
One of the decks undefeated day 1 is a straight Maverick:
(Daniel Smits Bertelsen’s list)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
4 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Path to Exile
1 Serenity
1 Stony Silence
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
The most evident tweaking is the absence of Stoneforge Mystic. Also just two equipments, two Jitte, one more in the sideboard.
From the 1of side, no Witness, no Terravore and no Thrun.
In this way, Bertelsen is able to play a package of 3 Aven Mindcensor, 3 Qasali Pridemage AND 3 Mirran Crusader, with double Scavenging Ooze too. Very interesting.
In the non-creature ranks, we have Sylvan Library and Elspeth, Knight-Errant as 1ofs.
In the manabase, Bertelsen switches to 1 Forest and 2 Plains, in order to sustain WW requirements of Elspeth and Crusader.
Sideboard is very focused too, with a full package of 4 Choke, 2 Path to Exile and a tutor toolbox of 1ofs.
The list looks robust. Cutting Stoneforge Mystic seems a blasphemy, but Bertelsen did a very coherent work and the choice of creature power in place of card advantage makes sense. I think these approach deserves some testing.
Edit – Top 8 are out!
There’s a very interesting Maverick… Red splashed for Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire!!
(Fabian Gorzgen’s list):
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Wasteland
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Batterskull
2 Choke
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Tormod's Crypt
Out all standard 1ofs but Gaddock Teeg. Just 1 Qasali Pridemage and 2 Stoneforge Mystic with 1 Sword of Feast and Famine and 1 Umezawa's Jitte as equipments. In: 3 Grove of the Burnwillows + 4 Punishing Fire, 1 Tarmogoyf and 1 Life from the Loam maindeck – makes sense with the Burnwillows strategy and reduces the gap of only 2 Wasteland. Again, double Scavenging Ooze.
In the board, interesting presence of Nevermore, Oblivion Ring and Sylvan Safekeeper.
This list weakens the manabase less than one could expect: red is used for Punishing Fire only, and Gorzgen is so sure of his manabase to maindeck 1 Maze of Ith, 1 Tower of the Magistrate and 1 Bojuka Bog at the same time! A bit greedy? Maybe, but this is another explanation for the maindeck Life from the Loam.
Oh well. We expected some innovation from the GP and it seems we’ve got something to talk for a while!
I think Gorzgen list has the merit to maintain all classical strengths of Maverick plus adding a very interesting card advantage engine. I often felt a bit lacking of removals, maybe in front of a Dark Confidant or Vendilion Clique. Sometimes, after a board sweep I missed some direct damage to kill that Jace or Liliana. Grove of the Burnwillows in the deck packing the best land tutor engine, Knight of the Reliquary, is a good catch for sure, and don't forget the nice interaction between Punishing Fire and Swords to Plowshares. Also, notice how Punishing Fire is much robust than the most common reason to splash red, Grim Lavamancer: more mana intensive, sure, but almost inevitable, in comparison.
I finished 68th in Amsterdam with a pretty standard list (except maybe for the 2nd ooze and MD bojuka, since I was expecting a lot of reanimator and snapcaster mage).
Yeah the red splash is definitely intriguing, and seems to have payed off for its pilot. Interestingly, there was another such list that made top32 (Sami Valkamaa) :Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
1 Arid Mesa
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Punishing Fire
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
1 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Null Rod
1 Path to Exile
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Purify the Grave
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
Notice REB in the SB, which is something I quite like. Problem with the punishing fire tech is that it takes splash GY hate. Looks like everyone is playing surgical extraction at the moment.
Sami Valkamaa finished 9th without byes so his tiebreakers werent enough.
I know there have been red-splashed Maverick builds piloted in the past, because I asked about it in this thread a month ago. I absolutely love Punishing Fires, and it reinforces Maverick's standing as a creature deck that can still play the control role. More importantly, I think the red splash is really important to shore up some of those combo matchups. However, none of them took the deck as far, and Fabian made room for the sweet Life from the Loam tech.
Props to everyone at GP Amsterdam!
I am confused as to how the R-splash helps the combo MU. Enlighten me?
I am wondering this too, for I've considered doing the Taiga+REB in the sideboard plan. It only really helps the slower combo deck matchups, and Merfolk (which this deck doesn't need help with). As such, adding REB doesn't help you beat ANT and very likely not helping you beat Reanimator. For this reason, I prefer Silence (on color, and a stronger effect) against such matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
It gives you a chance against Hive Mind and High Tide. It's another option for Jin Gitaxias or any creature put off Show and Tell, although Maverick has a decent Reanimator matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
It's not the best against the likes of Tendrils combo. The best thing Maverick can do there (aside from holding Chants, which are quite narrow) is play Enlightened Tutor with hatebears. Enlightened Tutor is especially convenient since Tendrils combo attacks your hand, but does not play counterspells; on the other hand, the blue-based combo decks do run counterspells which make an Enlightened Tutor board suboptimal in my opinion.
Yeah I don't see red helping the combo matchups too much.
I tried out a black splash (for 4x Thoughtseize and Bob and to justify a maindeck Bojuka Bog) this weekend at our local Legacy tournament and just wasn't enamored of it due to consistency issues, which was always one thing I loved about the GW builds.
I'm digging the Mirran Crusader list, however. Has quite a bit of fat to it.
After some testing I like the Punishing Fire tweak.
A list like Görzgen’s is aimed to improve control and aggro-control matchups, while keeping the aggro supremacy. I tested BUG Deedstill and here recurring Punishing Fire and, long term, Wastelands via Life from the Loam really shines, improving a typically bad matchup. UW Blade Control, Team America and Canadian Threshold also seem very good.
Too bad there isn’t a report of Görzgen-Sommen Quartefinal, it would have been interesting. Sommen won 2-1, but just looking at the lists I’d say Görzgen’s Punishing Maverick was quite favoured against Sommen’s Bant.
About combo MU I don’t see any change respect to standard GW lists. The main effect of Görzgen’s approach is in the mid and late game, and here CA is a good improvement against some bad or even matchup.
I've caught Game1 and 2 of Görzgen's Quarterfinal on camera. In case there's interest, I will upload it to my YouTube account.
Ow, that'd be great ! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Please do. Could you point me to your Youtube Channel?
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Thank you Julian!
I have been beating combo(ANT, TES, Belcher) consistently over the past few months with 4 GSZ, 1 Teeg, 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Vindicate, 4 Wasteland, and 1 Bog in my maindeck. I also use 2 Enlightened Tutors, 1 Canonist, 1 Stony Silence, and 1 Engineered Plague in my sideboard. Having two pieces of hate stick + disruption is a pretty hard lock for combo to overcome especially if you leave a KotR untapped for Bog or mana open for Ooze when expecting Ill-Gotten Gains. Vindicate and Wasteland is very crippling for combo decks in general when you can use them one after the other, it usually buys me enough time (along with TS) to fetch and set up a piece of hate.