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And how many of the playerbase are enthralled with Show and Tell-esque decks, which Wizards of the Coast seems determined to keep supporting while they bash down the more interesting combo decks? Where's the Show and Tell hosers? Something like "permanents can't enter the battlefield from player's hands unless they were cast" would do the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by lyracian
I think you're being way too generous here. When all is said and done, I expect these cards to be the only ones likely to see major play:Quote:
Originally Posted by wcm8
Abrupt Decay
Judge's Familiar
Dryad Militant
Supreme Verdict
Rest in Peace
The following cards will see some play initially, but probably shouldn't because they're not good enough:
Epic Experiment
Lotleth Troll
Vraska the Unseen
Grisly Salvage
The following cards will see fringe play in already-established decks:
Izzet Charm
Nivmagus Elemental
Detention Sphere
I could see an argument for Abrupt Decay being in the last category because it's in a bad combination of colors, but since I suspect people will go out of their way to splash it in a variety of decks I don't think it qualifies as "fringe".
That's my list too, plus Electrickery. No love for that card? :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
It would have to be nonland permanents. They could make thing so much cleaner by encapsulating that concept into a single word...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
Until they printed cards like Griselbrand and Omniescence that win on the same turn, Soul Tithe effects would have been pretty effective.
It feels a bit like they had some other guild mechanics in mind than what got originally printed:
Radkos - 'pain cast'
Selesnia - Number of enchantments you control
Azoria - Non-land cards with the same name.
I think Rest in Peace is the first card they have designed to fight the popular legacy metagame, it is like legacies version of null rod. I foresee a UW aggro deck with Serra's Avengers and RIP main board taking out top decks after the new set comes out.
It would have a great game against RUG, Maverick, Reanimator and combo but would have a bad day against Merfolk, Goblins and other aggro decks.
Isn't Shrivel just better? That way Mom can't tap to give herself Pro:Red and survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
EDIT: Oh, Electrickery is an instant. I guess it's okay then.
And also, only affects enemy creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
I think Deathrite Shaman will be in the first group also. It's a very versatile and useful creatureQuote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Eh, not really. You can sometimes get mana out of it if you Wastelanded your opponent or they cracked a fetch, but not always being a mana dork when you want it to be one (like Birds or Hierarch) is a liability. The other two abilities don't stack up favorably against Scavenging Ooze since they can only be used once per turn and the Shaman's 1/2 body means he basically has Defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinch
EDIT: I would say Shrivel's ability to prevent Mom shenanigans is more important than being one-sided for a lot of decks. Many of the red decks in this format either aren't interested in that effect (like Burn), already run better options (like Goblins), or don't care about it being one-sided (RUG, SnT decks). Pretty much no red deck right now runs Seismic Shudder, although I guess the flexibility to be that or a Lava Dart might mean something.
Or you cracked a fetch, or they discarded a land to hymn or liliana or knight, I heard some of those cards are playable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
A 1/2 body means it can hold back a surprisingly large number of creatures, unflipped delvers, un-threshed geese, lackeys, mom's, it still trades with snap casters and dark confidants like a champ. It also attacks for one/drains for two, when it has to go on the offensive.
If you do the math, 10 instants/sorceries and you have lethal in the yard. A inquisition taking a brainstorm is 4 life loss over 2 turns(or 1 turn if you have 2 shamans). Against creature decks the same thing can be said for life gain, 2 life can make or break a race.
Scavenging Ooze kills them faster, can be used multiple times per turn, blocks and kills all of the things you mentioned, and doesn't remove lands from your 'yard (important if you're running Knights or LftL). Ooze can also be used right away if you have open green mana after casting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
10 instants or sorceries = 10 turn clock, which is kind of a joke; he'll probably do about as much damage in an average game as Grim Lavamancer, and Grim Lavamancer has the notable upside of also killing creatures.
I'm just not seeing it. The tap parts of the activation really kill this guy's chances.
Why would anyone ever play Judge's Familliar? How would you ever make that card relevant? Birds.deck?
It's a white one-drop that carries equipment well and can be cashed in for a Force Spike if you really need one. It's yet another card in the arsenal of "white aggro creatures that hate on combo".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
There's no way a 1/1 flier is relevant enough for anyone to play. Any white deck would be making aggro and control matchups worse by adding this card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
I don't really see Rest in Peace seeing play outside of Enchantress or decks going for Helm of Obedience/Energy Field shenanigans, by which I mean it won't see play at all once the dust settles. It's too slow for Reanimator/Dredge, and Relic of Progenitus is almost as good versus decks trying to get an incremental advantage out of the GY whilst being colorless and cycling. Likewise, Dryad Militant is far too narrow in its application whilst having too small of a body to be of use.
On the flip side, Deathrite Shaman looks incredible in Elves (I've outlined the reasons for this in the Elves thread, but in short a 1cc on color on tribe creature that brings reach versus control, stalls versus aggro, disrupts the opponents graveyard, makes mana a non-zero amount of the time and has synergy with the untappers is far too good to pass up. Elves have wanted utility beside dealing with Artis/Enchantments for a long time, and boy does this provide it. Sleeper hit of the set imo.
Abrupt Decay is obviously seeing play, only question that remains is which decks will splash for it.
Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere are both strictly better upgrades of the cards they're modeled on with the added benefit of being blue, obviously. Being uncounterable is a big deal with Merfolk and Griesel in the format, and being able to deal with Emmy is points in its favor as well. The latter is somewhat harder to place as Miracles don't especially need a Vindicate variant, but since Oblivion Ring sees fringe play I expect this to as well.
Lotleth Troll is a good creature in a middling archetype (what with Legacy being rather hostile to the GY in general, and Dredge setting the bar for creature based decks creating card advantage through the graveyard rather high).
Judge's Familiar looks good enough for Maverick, not sure it'll permantly supplant any other creature since the ones available are all at a similar power level but being an option in a combo-heavy metagame plays in its favor.
Nivmagus has a rather unique (and good) ability, but being a vanilla 1/2 will probably ensure it won't see play regardless. Adding another situational card in order to pitch dead Stifle/Dazes probably isn't the way to go about it.
Which about covers it for Legacy far as I can see; there's a lot of good cards in the set (charms, smiter, ashrunner, dreadbore etc) but none that look strong enough to warrant their own archetype nor fit into any existing.
It's a 1-drop anti-Storm card that isn't 2 mana. This is very important that it costs 1 mana rather than 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
It also completely hates on Dredge by having a built-in sacrifice. This is also highly relevant.
It also has flying. This is an underrated in Legacy.
Finally, it has Amazing.
In short, 10 / 10 for playability
You are comparing a 1cc mana dork to a 2cc beater or a really badly colored source of recurring damage. Compare him to birds, lanowar elf or heirarch and I think he lines up better. I highly doubt you will have to eat your own yard if you don't want to and it is not like you will lose knight fights with a shaman in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
!!! 500th post!!!
He has summoning sickness and only one of his abilities can be activated once a turn. That's a pretty significant downside. He's not better than Noble because he is less consistent and less useful in multiples. He's not better than Ooze because he has summoning sickness and can only activate once a turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
So... where am I going to use him?
Scavenging Ooze is not black. What I mean is: you can't play Scavenging Ooze in a Mono-Black. Deathrite Shaman is a mana dork for mono-black decks or other decks with Black but without Green. Not being able to use its third ability is not a big deal, I think. Those colors had no access to one drop mana dorks before!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
I feel like this is more of an argument not to play mono-black or non-green black decks than it is to run the Shaman.Quote:
Originally Posted by joven
I could kinda see playing Deathrite Shaman as Hierarch #5 if you felt your curve could use the boost, on the assumption that a single one will have all three of its abilities online at which point it can have decent value over a Birds or whatever else you'd have played. That's about it, though.