Chinese fakes

Fake Legacy cards will cause sales on Theros/Born of the Gods to tank. They will also be responsible for the sharp decline in attendance at Standard events.

If people reselling their fakes becomes problematic, I expect stores with excellent reputations will inspect any cards that they purchase second hand. So places like Star City Games really stand to profit from the counterfeits, while the counterfeits will allow newbies to break into the Legacy format. On MTGS, Galspanic has posted a set of the counterfeits along with a set of real cards. I had to ask him which of the sets were the real cards, because they really do look good if you're not running the usual tests on them.

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Originally Posted by Entromancer

Fake Legacy cards will cause sales on Theros/Born of the Gods to tank. They will also be responsible for the sharp decline in attendance at Standard events.

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Another argument in this thread that doesn't make any sense for me. How does the shitload of fake Duals and big price Legacy staples have anything to do with Theros being another block full of EDH jank and people (including standard-players) being Bored of the Gods?

Hello,

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They will also be responsible for the sharp decline in attendance at Standard events.

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I highly doubt that to be honest. Because for me the fun to play and my desire to win are not conected with any concern about
fake cards. Even if my popponent clearly plays with them I will not say anything because the important part in the game are the
strategy and interactions players create and not the actual price of the cards.

If you are refering to the Standard format then all I have to say is you are wrong. Nobody will ever quit standard because of the fear for
counterfeights. the format is just to fast that something like that can be profitable for anyone. The reason is the rotaion of the cards
and therefore the resulting price variations which even can occur overnight.

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while the counterfeits will allow newbies to break into the Legacy format.

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this is a desireble develpoment because, we want newbies( New players) for our format to enshure it growth and
become stable even without the SCG support for tournements.

Only with a growing and healhty market we can enshure that the cards will have a reasonable pricing. Which will lead
to a stable scence and enshures that we have tournements and other competitive things even without the SCG support.

Best Regards Teveshszat

You white knights don't make any sense.

If I buy fake passable proxies to play with, and I don't sell or trade them as real cards, who is being harmed? How does it affect you? And why do you care? Stop being so judgmental.

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

You white knights don't make any sense.

If I buy fake passable proxies to play with, and I don't sell or trade them as real cards, who is being harmed? How does it affect you? And why do you care? Stop being so judgmental.

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Who's harmed? What about you getting banned for cheating with detectable, marked, fake cards in a tournament? There is a reason Alpha cards are a problem in tourneys as well as partial foiling of Key-components.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Oh I missed that fake Gucci bags and Lacoste shirts aren't sold to naive people ... wait ... what? They are?! Duh!

I only hate people that make proxies that are easily distinguishable within sleeves and use that for cheating. If you have some douches in your playgroup bitching around if someone wants to try deck x in a local 4-rounder before buying into the deck at last, get a new group.

I have no clue why coloring should hinder gameplay. That's a bunch of crap you posted here...

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You missed the numberous psychological stuides that show that people who willingly buy counterfeits are more likely to save up for the real thing...unless there's none left. Which is idiotic economic strategy unless you're intentionally trying to sabotage something. See, for example, early electric cars as an example. This isn't an easy thing to accept sometimes, and I understand that. But I have issues labelling those who do buy these cards as thieves and frauds without an intent to deceive.

Hopefully, that makes as much sense as it did within my head.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Who's harmed? What about you getting banned for cheating with detectable, marked, fake cards in a tournament? There is a reason Alpha cards are a problem in tourneys as well as partial foiling of Key-components.

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What about me not using passable proxies in tournaments. Or what about me using the cards in tournaments but not marking the cards or sleeves. In that situation, gameplay isn't affected or hindered at all. Neither is the tournament. I still have to pay an entry fee to compete. I just don't need to also spend well over $1000 on 75 pieces of cardboard. By the way, people mark real cards and sleeves in tournaments too.

Seriously guys, stop being so judgmental. This doesn't hurt you. It doesn't affect you. It doesn't harm anyone provided people aren't selling or trading the cards as real. Judge those people all you want, but not people who are using the cards for gameplay.

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

What about me not using passable proxies in tournaments. Or what about me using the cards in tournaments but not marking the cards or sleeves. In that situation, gameplay isn't affected or hindered at all. Neither is the tournament. I still have to pay an entry fee to compete. I just don't need to also spend well over $1000 on 75 pieces of cardboard. By the way, people mark real cards and sleeves in tournaments too.

Seriously guys, stop being so judgmental. This doesn't hurt you. It doesn't affect you. It doesn't harm anyone provided people aren't selling or trading the cards as real. Judge those people all you want, but not people who are using the cards for gameplay.

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This is harming me. Due to the falsificators actively prickling the bubble, there may not be enough time to sell my cards before the named bubble bursts.
I don't wanna lose my money just because some dudes have printer, those money were hard-earned. I hadn't been sitting on my boxes full of sexy stuff for fifteen years just to see it tank in value.

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

This is harming me. Due to the falsificators actively prickling the bubble, there may not be enough time to sell my cards before the named bubble bursts.
I don't wanna lose my money just because some dudes have printer, those money were hard-earned. I hadn't been sitting on my boxes full of sexy stuff for fifteen years just to see it tank in value.

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You are just making a rash assumption. We don't know that these fakes will cause card values to dramatically decrease. There are already thousands of them and values haven't changed. People will always want real cards. There are collectors, there are people that enjoy supporting Wizards, there are people who enjoy supporting LGS's, etc. Your cardboard will still be worth more than mine.

I really don't get why people are so judgmental though. If I don't sell or trade the proxies as real, what am I doing that is wrong?

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

If I don't sell or trade the proxies as real, what am I doing that is wrong?

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Look, isn't the purpose of proxies to have the thing for cheap? and, if everybody starts to use proxies, who would buy expensive originals? Even if the number of people that wants the real product drops by just ten percent, it may lower the prices... and the value of my cardboard.
Do not want.

1.) We do know that they will if a large enough number of consumers feel as you feel and act on it.

2.) You may not be doing anything wrong, but the fact that the opportunity is there for more than just you, the greater the risk. Eventually, it will create a problem for the game. It must be taken seriously or at some point it will create problems that won't be able to be fixed.

http://magiccards.info/

Go here and scroll down and look under the picture. It will let you print proxies. They are to size. As long as your printer isn't from the 80's and you aren't out of ink, you will have no issues.

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

You missed the numberous psychological stuides that show that people who willingly buy counterfeits are more likely to save up for the real thing...unless there's none left. Which is idiotic economic strategy unless you're intentionally trying to sabotage something. See, for example, early electric cars as an example. This isn't an easy thing to accept sometimes, and I understand that. But I have issues labelling those who do buy these cards as thieves and frauds without an intent to deceive.

Hopefully, that makes as much sense as it did within my head.

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That sure explains the fact that the US Vintage scene is a near pure proxy-based community for a decade and that people that won power and shit immediately put it on eBay (as I know a few people who did).

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

What about me not using passable proxies in tournaments. Or what about me using the cards in tournaments but not marking the cards or sleeves. In that situation, gameplay isn't affected or hindered at all. Neither is the tournament. I still have to pay an entry fee to compete. I just don't need to also spend well over $1000 on 75 pieces of cardboard. By the way, people mark real cards and sleeves in tournaments too.

Seriously guys, stop being so judgmental. This doesn't hurt you. It doesn't affect you. It doesn't harm anyone provided people aren't selling or trading the cards as real. Judge those people all you want, but not people who are using the cards for gameplay.

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Playing cards that are thicker/thinner/etc. due to not being official products are considered "marked" by me.

Dood, peeps tried to cheat on me with proxies in the past within tournament play AND trade ... for me that IS an issue I take dead serious

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Look, isn't the purpose of proxies to have the thing for cheap? and, if everybody starts to use proxies, who would buy expensive originals? Even if the number of people that wants the real product drops by just ten percent, it may lower the prices... and the value of my cardboard.
Do not want.

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This is just more baseless assumptions. Who would want to buy expensive originals? Well, for starters you would. As would the other white knights in this thread that insist on the harms and problems with passable proxies.

All I want is to be able to have a good paper magic the gathering experience without spending a small fortune so I can have competitive games against players with good cards at my LGS or with my friends in casual pick me up games. It really is victim-less. Counterfeiting doesn't kill industry. Yeah, I might be able to play with a $3000 Stoneblade deck for $100 now (which will mean I actually can play Stoneblade now), but it's not like that hurts anyone. It certainly doesn't hurt Wizards.

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

If I buy fake passable proxies to play with, and I don't sell or trade them as real cards, who is being harmed? How does it affect you? And why do you care? Stop being so judgmental.

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It matters because you would still be giving counterfeiters your money. Even if you didn't try to unload the cards at some point -- which I highly doubt, given the lack of scruples you've displayed so far -- plenty of other people would. Propping up an industry that creates fake cards is bad for everyone.

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Originally Posted by HonorBasquiat

All I want is to be able to have a good paper magic the gathering experience without spending a small fortune so I can have competitive games against players with good cards at my LGS or with my friends in casual pick me up games. It really is victim-less. Counterfeiting doesn't kill industry. Yeah, I might be able to play with a $3000 Stoneblade deck for $100 now (which will mean I actually can play Stoneblade now), but it's not like that hurts anyone. It certainly doesn't hurt Wizards.

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Who are you? If it's a casual game, you can make proxies. If it's a non-sanctioned tournament and you all want to use proxies, you can do that. You just can't pass the proxies off as real. What are you failing to understand about that?

What are you, 12? Get a job, stop buying so much weed, take a money management class and start being an actual functional member of society. by the way, I'm a blue mage, not a white knight, and I actually play esper blade, and I have actually spent the money to do so. I had a lot of the cards already because I have played the game for 15 years, however, I also recognize good cards when I see them and made some wise and opportunistic purchases that helped me get to this point.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

What are you, 12? Get a job, stop buying so much weed, take a money management class and start being an actual functional member of society. by the way, I'm a blue mage, not a white knight, and I actually play esper blade, and I have actually spent the money to do so. I had a lot of the cards already because I have played the game for 15 years, however, I also recognize good cards when I see them and made some wise and opportunistic purchases that helped me get to this point.

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Dude you must be crazy. So you are basically saying that people who don't wanna spend $3000 for a deck ain't functional members of the society? And they should take money management classes to learn how to save money for cards? Not sure if trolling or braindead.

This thread seriously needs lock. All important information got lost in this kind of spam. Now there are only "blue mages aka members of society" left, only those chosen ones who don't smoke weed and passed money management class.

If that is what you took away from my post, I don't believe any kind of explanation from myself will better help you understand what I'm saying here. Also, "ain't" isn't a word and you should never start a sentence with a conjunction such as "and."

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

If that is what you took away from my post, I don't believe any kind of explanation from myself will better help you understand what I'm saying here. Also, "ain't" isn't a word and you should never start a sentence with a conjunction such as "and."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain't
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIdIqbv7SPo

Please teach me more, valuable member of the society. I am not pro-counterfeit, but the level of stupidity this thread has achieved makes me wanna buy billion of them and start giving them to homeless.

You are currently one of the main contributors of stupidity at this point. If you would just stop posting, this thread would clean up. Also, Wikipedia is literally the worst online source ever. JuCo professors will trash your English papers for that, for shit's sake.

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The only stupidity is claiming that enjoyable Gaming in your LGS NEEDS high quality fakes which other subjects WILL use to either rip off people (or for cheating if those differ in their thickness)