Yeah, last tuesday I was talking about the deck while in a tourney and was shocked to learn how expensive some of the key cards have gotten.
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Yeah, last tuesday I was talking about the deck while in a tourney and was shocked to learn how expensive some of the key cards have gotten.
I just learned about that today. While I'm unsurprised Wasteland is expensive, the sudden increase in price for Karakas really surprised me. Have any of the other cards jumped in price?
I was considering building this deck when Karakas was under 10 and when Wasteland was 14. Now it is more expensive, but it is still a deck that I might wanna build. I love the new builds with Stoneforge. This is my list
Creatures
4 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
3 Goldmeadow Harrier
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands
7 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Flagstones of Trokair
Sideboard
3 Cataclysm
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Mindbreak Trap
Its really bad. A good combo player can play around it pretty easily. There's plenty better you could run.Quote:
3 Mindbreak Trap
I do like Cataclysm postboard. You don't really see that much anymore. How's it workn out?
I myself am thinking of running them main.
I currently do not own Karakas and with its $50 price tag, I would rather build a tier one deck.
I am thinking of replacing them with Flagstones of Trokair and instead of running Mangara, I would substitute either Cataclysm or Armageddon for them.
Still experimenting on it though.
Why is Mindbreak Trap so bad as you are saying? You don't have to keep free mana for O.Chant or Silence and you can play threats. For example against Belcher, Ethersworn Canonist and other 2cc hate are just too slow. Good player can play arround M. Trap, but he can also play around Silence or Orim's Chant if he knows you have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Btw i play 3 Silence, 3 M. Traps and 4 Canonists in SB and i'm thinking about adding some else.
Cataclysm: I've tried it, but never sided it in or effectively used it. You have to play additional nonbasic lands (now with 11 nonbasic lands, I'm really worrying about BTB), with mystics, you have mostly more than 1 artifact on the table. With all these equipments, you can handle the aggro decks much better than before.
I'm wondering why people use BFT instead of Kor Firewalker. I think as anti-burn tech, Firewalker is far superior. The casting cost difference is also rather minor, thus, I'm confused as to why it's not used.
ForgetenderQuote:
Originally Posted by alphacat
1) Can remove Bridge from Below
2) Can save your dudes from Pyroclasm/Devastating Dreams/Firestorm
3) Costs :w: less, thus far better against Goblins. And the deck already has enough 2-mana creatures.
Also, Burn is very rare deck...
IMO, Firemind definitely has the idea. But this one...
2) Can save your dudes from Pyroclasm/Devastating Dreams/Firestorm
...is only the beginning. When Stoneforge Mystic came out, this deck got a huge boost. Equipment is now a significant part of the deck's strategy. And it is not only equipment, it is getting the perfect equipment. Since you usually get to choose which of the weapons the Mystic fetches for you, the weapon can be tailored to the situation. The strategy is precise enough and effective enough to warrant some measures to making sure it works. That was when I started using Mother of Runes. And she is fantabulous at her job, but when searching for a critter that:
a) disrupts some common stuff in the format
b) pushes my deck's strategy
c) costs exactly 1
But the coolest benefit is that BFT protects the guy I want to equip (even if it is not him) from all the bolts Zoo has to offer during the one time Zoo can reasonably do something about it. Once the right piece of equipment is on, the game is usually a done deal.
He is still a crappy card from time to time, but he has come through for me so far. And at 1 mana, I am satisfied as long as Zoo is as common an opponent as it has been.
Hmm, You've got a good point. While I'm more partial for Goldmeadow Harrier. BFT has it's good sides. It's definitely a metal-call.
d) protects fully against one Progenitus attack\ :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Im starting to have to lean towards favoring BFT in my list.... It just has more uses at the moment, at least in my meta... I have to say Finn, Ive done quite a bit of testing and its pretty much brought me to your maindeck as being the most consistent... I wasnt in favor of running 4 Karakas and 4 Mangara at first, but when you realize how brutal it is when you get that engine going, its hard to not want it to come up as often as possible... I intend on getting some good tournament results with this deck, be prepared to see some of my reports (hopefully of success!)
Against NO-Bant or NO-CounterTop, try fetching up a Sword of Light and Shadow with the Mystic. You can continue to put BFT back in your hand every turn. They can't plow your attacker or the BFT, and Progenitus has trouble dealing any damage. It is nearly useless - it can't even block your guy, because he is white/black. I have done this twice now, and I think it will be my strategy in most of my games against these decks. Once, the CounterTop guy had a Plow and then Grip, and I was at low life already. He managed to keep my BFT out of play on two successive turns to beat me. The other time it was against Bant and I Flickered my Sword to evade his Pridemage at it. From then on, I just beat on him for 3, and then 6 points per turn while his Progenitus attacked for zero each time.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitescorpion
Not a single red spell in the deck (well, except Progenitus), and they would love to FoW your Forge-Tender.
Cool tech. Since I'm already running enlightened tutor with a small toolbox in my SB, I'm tempted to add a single heap doll for recurring GY hate. You still need to connect with your creature though, and it is quite heavy to set up (although you only need a tutor and a mystic), so it might fall into the danger of cool things category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
It probably does. Although NO-Bant doesn't run too many flying creatures, if we SoLS on a Serra Avenger, they will have trouble blocking it. Most of their removal should have trouble getting through the sword and Mom. Mom also can give us prot to get through.
What I'm wondering is: Should I get an Enlightened Tutor toolbox for my SB or just go with: 3x Ethersworn Canonist, 3x True Believer, 3x Crypt/Relic (It's just for goyf/loam hate. It isn't enough against dredge), 3x Aura of Silence, 3x Meekstone/Retribution of the Meek. The second option is cheaper, but doesn't have as much general hate, while the toolbox is more expensive but has more potential for all-around hate. The card choices I picked are based on the tourneys I've been to. Dredge isn't very common around here. It's pretty aggro/combo heavy, so I took that into account with the SB I've planned.
One more thing about Goldmeadow Harrier:
It hoses Mother of Runes and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner - the cards that gave me troubles in past - for a very low cost. Not a huge advantage, but still good.
Need a little input from you guys on what is probably my best choice for some maindeck slots and my SB. Last time I played in a tournament I was playing goblins and I faced combo in my 3rd and 4th round. So.. I will be returning to this same place next month, with the expectation that goblins usually shows up in a small amount (2 or 3 out of 40+), counterbalance decks are on the rise here, zoo was in small qtys last time, belcher is getting popular there(but I think that is just because the last time prior it won), ichorid and enchantress are common sights as well... So my build is identical to Finn's on the opening page, I am currently running BFT as he did, but my SB is a little different, and I am thinking the BFT's are worth keeping main since I do see red decks and also ichorid is fairly common.... Here is my SB
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Engineered Explosives (An answer to a resolved ETW and zombie tokens etc....)
2 Runed Halo
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Orim"s Chant
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Serenity
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
Any thoughts on what could be better here?
I would probably play a second Ethersworn Canonist in case something happens to the first.
I would go :Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_C
-1 EE (not useless but too limited to find its place in the SB)
-2 halo (poor card in this deck imo, and if you really want to play it it should be MD)
-3 trap (pretty much worse than chant)
+2 chant (see above)
+1 aura of silence (always nice to have a tutorable anti-artifact/enchant, plus it's really good against enchantress, affinity and stax decks if you manage to land it)
+1 absolute law (questionnable choice I admit, but I've found it very useful against non-green goblin lists when jitte doesn't always save me)
Trap is like force of will for this deck.. Against combo, we lose game 1, win game 2, and without trap, you open yourself to lose on turn 1 against combo G3. Im not saying I would mull straight into a hand that had trap g3, but the option to be protected is there.... Absolute law isnt bad, Ive had it in and out of my sb but with BFT main, it seemed like too much red hate..... Aura of silence doesnt do it for me as much as serenity... Enchantress is commonly played in my area and if they have sterling grove you have no really good use of aura... Halo is great against reanimator and combo, those are about the only matchups they come in for and are really solid in those games. EE is my preference since a turn 1 ETW(which happens to me alot!) is something the deck cannot deal with otherwise... and, its unexpected from a mono white deck.... also useful against chalices, and can swing games against zoo when they have burned your creatures and have nacatl, mancer, and kird apes on the board