[Deck] Goblins

Played a 5-Rounder SCG Invitational Qualifier. I went 3-2. I lost to OmniTell R1 and Reanimator R4. The OmniTell loss was acceptable. The Reanimator loss was not. I made the biggest punts I can recall making in a very long while.

List

4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Matron
4 Warchief
4 Ringleader
3 Tarfire
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Krenko
1 Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Chieftain
1 Stingscourger

4 waste
4 port
4 cavern
5 mountain
5 fetch

Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
5 whatever

R1 OmniTell
G1 He has it.
G2 I keep a hand with Lackey, gas, cavern, and mana disruption. He keeps a hand with wishes and Intuitions and cannot put the pieces together faster than I can kill him.
G3 I mull 3 looking for hate. I sided in Surgical because he's running Intuition, but I keep drawing hands with Surgical and 3-drops that aren't going to win. Unsurprisingly, I lose.

R2 Lands - RG
G1 i get 20/20'd.
G2 I Surgical his Loam early and overwhelm the board. Vial is a huge asset.
G3 I Surgical his loam again but he has PFire + Grove online. I gain 14 life off Grove this game as he keeps killing my poor little Gobbos and I only have 4 lands. I'm Matroning for MWM just to make him focus on keeping the board clear with PFire. I Draw Magus but that won't help against PFire. I finally topdeck Blood Moon, then play Magus as a follow-up. He doesn't have the Kgrip or Decay and I finally close it out.

R3 NicFit
G1 I get a ton of lands off his Explorer. He casts CT hitting Ringleader. Then he flashes it back off Explorer. He knows my hand it Krenko and 2 Matrons. He takes the Matrons (2:1) but then he doesn't have an answer for Krenko who takes over the game.
G2 He doesn't draw G mana.

R4 Renimator
G1 he reanimates Grizz
G2 I Surgical his Grizz when he Careful Studies. Then I play a Chalice @1. He DDDs Elesh Norn. I Stingscourger it. I play a few dudes. He Exhumes Elesh Norn again which also brings back my Stingscourger to bounce it. This happens 3 times and I finally win.
G3 has the puntiest punt I can recall punting. My opening hand has 2 Chalice and Stingscourger. It's scary on the draw but I kept. Here's how the game went to the best of my ability...
Opponent T1 - Underground Sea, ponder Shuffle
My T1 - Waste the Sea
OT2 - Draw to 7, pass
MT2 - Mountain, Vial
OT3 - Land, pass
MT3 - Land, Vial @ 1, Chalice @ 1
OT4 - Land, pass
MT4 - Port, Vial @ 2 (Surgical in hand, Stinger and Matron too)
OT5 - He draws, moves to discard. I say Yes. He discards Grave Titan. I activate Vial to put Stinger in play so it dies in my upkeep and I can play around his Exhumes. Except that I can't put it in because my opponent already discarded. This was my first big fuck up of the game, but there were more to come.
MT5 - Vial is already at two, but I had a Matron in hand I really wanted to play. I had a second Chalice in hand and a Surgical that I can't really play because of Chalice @ 1 but I can use it as backup if he Decays or bounces the Chalice. But I got greedy and stupid and really wanted to put Vial at 3 for the Matron. The thing is, there was NO GOOD REASON to put Vial at 3. So long as I has Stingscourger in hand I could have sat back on my hate and waited to get a clock going. Plus I had plenty of lands and could have hardcast all the gobbos I wanted.
But here's the dummy move I made instead.
I upped Vial to 3. I then HARDCAST Stingscourger because I forgot how it worked. I wanted to get it into the graveyard to play around Exhume again. Except, of course, that I forgot how Stingscourger works and it won't be in the bin until my next upkeep. Huge mistake, as it gave my opponent a 1 turn window. I then cast the second Vial @ 1. Another mistake, since Port could have kept him off Exhume.
OT6 He Exhumes the Grave Titan. It all goes downhill from there. I suck and punted this game taking what seems to be, in retrospect, the optimally WORST line of play. Just terrible. I missed top 8 because of it.

R5 Food Chain
G1 He mulls to 5. i win.
G2 I mull to 5, but he draws multiple Food Chains and I land a Blood Moon that keeps him off U mana. Win.

The moral of the story....
When your opponent moves to discard you need to play correctly with that information. Don't miss your EOT actions.
Don't force the issue when you're playing the control roll. There was no need for me to tick up Vial to 3 when I did.

That Round 4 will be eating at me for a while now. But life goes on. It was still a good tournament, great fun, and I'm digging Goblins still.

On the list, Legion Loyalist did nothing this game and should be considered a flex spot. Skirk was never necessary either. A second Stingscourger wouldn't suck. Moon effects were awesome. Surgical was great all day and I kept drawing it over and over again. And I need to do some playtesting to get G2&3 against OmniTel decent.

Too bad, shame loosing R4 despite knowing what you should do. Next time you'll remember.

Regarding your list:

1. would you consider the New Scout as a possible substitude for Loyalist/ Prospector?
2. What else did you board in against this particular build of Omni-oops-I-win? Would you reserve more dedicated SB-slots against this deck in generally?
3. I can see why you would like to split between Magus and B-Moon, but if you would have to choose: which one would it be?
4. Did you ever missed Relic/ Crypt? (I see why you would choose Exrraction over them though)


Regarding to Omnitell: will we see them after monday? Any thoughts?

went 3-2 tonight

2-1 Mentor Miracles
2-0 UW Stoneblade
2-1 UWR Stoneblade
1-2 Shardless BUG
1-2 RUG

overall the deck felt very solid and I loved the 4 Port 4 Waste, and i think if i mulliganed correctly i've at least could've gone 4-1. bummer being 3-0 and on top of the standings and then dropping to 6th :(

good news: i might get a goblin settler

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Played a 5-Rounder SCG Invitational Qualifier. I went 3-2. I lost to OmniTell R1 and Reanimator R4. The OmniTell loss was acceptable. The Reanimator loss was not. I made the biggest punts I can recall making in a very long while.

List

4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Matron
4 Warchief
4 Ringleader
3 Tarfire
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Krenko
1 Sharpshooter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Chieftain
1 Stingscourger

4 waste
4 port
4 cavern
5 mountain
5 fetch

Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
5 whatever

R1 OmniTell
G1 He has it.
G2 I keep a hand with Lackey, gas, cavern, and mana disruption. He keeps a hand with wishes and Intuitions and cannot put the pieces together faster than I can kill him.
G3 I mull 3 looking for hate. I sided in Surgical because he's running Intuition, but I keep drawing hands with Surgical and 3-drops that aren't going to win. Unsurprisingly, I lose.

R2 Lands - RG
G1 i get 20/20'd.
G2 I Surgical his Loam early and overwhelm the board. Vial is a huge asset.
G3 I Surgical his loam again but he has PFire + Grove online. I gain 14 life off Grove this game as he keeps killing my poor little Gobbos and I only have 4 lands. I'm Matroning for MWM just to make him focus on keeping the board clear with PFire. I Draw Magus but that won't help against PFire. I finally topdeck Blood Moon, then play Magus as a follow-up. He doesn't have the Kgrip or Decay and I finally close it out.

R3 NicFit
G1 I get a ton of lands off his Explorer. He casts CT hitting Ringleader. Then he flashes it back off Explorer. He knows my hand it Krenko and 2 Matrons. He takes the Matrons (2:1) but then he doesn't have an answer for Krenko who takes over the game.
G2 He doesn't draw G mana.

R4 Renimator
G1 he reanimates Grizz
G2 I Surgical his Grizz when he Careful Studies. Then I play a Chalice @1. He DDDs Elesh Norn. I Stingscourger it. I play a few dudes. He Exhumes Elesh Norn again which also brings back my Stingscourger to bounce it. This happens 3 times and I finally win.
G3 has the puntiest punt I can recall punting. My opening hand has 2 Chalice and Stingscourger. It's scary on the draw but I kept. Here's how the game went to the best of my ability...
Opponent T1 - Underground Sea, ponder Shuffle
My T1 - Waste the Sea
OT2 - Draw to 7, pass
MT2 - Mountain, Vial
OT3 - Land, pass
MT3 - Land, Vial @ 1, Chalice @ 1
OT4 - Land, pass
MT4 - Port, Vial @ 2 (Surgical in hand, Stinger and Matron too)
OT5 - He draws, moves to discard. I say Yes. He discards Grave Titan. I activate Vial to put Stinger in play so it dies in my upkeep and I can play around his Exhumes. Except that I can't put it in because my opponent already discarded. This was my first big fuck up of the game, but there were more to come.
MT5 - Vial is already at two, but I had a Matron in hand I really wanted to play. I had a second Chalice in hand and a Surgical that I can't really play because of Chalice @ 1 but I can use it as backup if he Decays or bounces the Chalice. But I got greedy and stupid and really wanted to put Vial at 3 for the Matron. The thing is, there was NO GOOD REASON to put Vial at 3. So long as I has Stingscourger in hand I could have sat back on my hate and waited to get a clock going. Plus I had plenty of lands and could have hardcast all the gobbos I wanted.
But here's the dummy move I made instead.
I upped Vial to 3. I then HARDCAST Stingscourger because I forgot how it worked. I wanted to get it into the graveyard to play around Exhume again. Except, of course, that I forgot how Stingscourger works and it won't be in the bin until my next upkeep. Huge mistake, as it gave my opponent a 1 turn window. I then cast the second Vial @ 1. Another mistake, since Port could have kept him off Exhume.
OT6 He Exhumes the Grave Titan. It all goes downhill from there. I suck and punted this game taking what seems to be, in retrospect, the optimally WORST line of play. Just terrible. I missed top 8 because of it.

R5 Food Chain
G1 He mulls to 5. i win.
G2 I mull to 5, but he draws multiple Food Chains and I land a Blood Moon that keeps him off U mana. Win.

The moral of the story....
When your opponent moves to discard you need to play correctly with that information. Don't miss your EOT actions.
Don't force the issue when you're playing the control roll. There was no need for me to tick up Vial to 3 when I did.

That Round 4 will be eating at me for a while now. But life goes on. It was still a good tournament, great fun, and I'm digging Goblins still.

On the list, Legion Loyalist did nothing this game and should be considered a flex spot. Skirk was never necessary either. A second Stingscourger wouldn't suck. Moon effects were awesome. Surgical was great all day and I kept drawing it over and over again. And I need to do some playtesting to get G2&3 against OmniTel decent.

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i have been struggiling hard against reanimator.

didn't think to play like that to play around exume. that's indeed a great plan, plus chalice@1. or maybe trinisphere+ports?

so would it better to play 2 stingscourgers? 1 for grave, 1 for the hand, to play via vial or enemy show and tell?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Aether Vial is one of our strongest cards, allowing you to play certain high cmc-cards. Don't blindly assume Lackey will connect. Of course a late game Vial isn't as good as a early one, but play it nevertheless.



It all depends on your MU and also your playstyle. There's no easy answer, nor one conclusive answer imo. Some like the controlish route (Vial), some like the aggresive route (Lackey).

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i would like to thank you and tokugawa for your feedback! thanks a lot =D

i am gonna test it after my exams are over....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Too bad, shame loosing R4 despite knowing what you should do. Next time you'll remember.

Regarding your list:

1. would you consider the New Scout as a possible substitude for Loyalist/ Prospector?
2. What else did you board in against this particular build of Omni-oops-I-win? Would you reserve more dedicated SB-slots against this deck in generally?
3. I can see why you would like to split between Magus and B-Moon, but if you would have to choose: which one would it be?
4. Did you ever missed Relic/ Crypt? (I see why you would choose Exrraction over them though)


Regarding to Omnitell: will we see them after monday? Any thoughts?

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1. Yes, as Loyalist seems weak, but a 2nd Stingscourger is a pretty good replacement too. I'm a big Stingscourger fan. And if Reanimator gets more popular again it will be good to have a 2nd Stinger main. I think we can leave Pospector in the maindeck for now. His synergy with Sharpshooter is still pretty relevant.

2. Against Omni I boarded in 3 Surgical and 3 Iona, Shield of Emeria. I hadn't tested Iona but felt it could be an auto win. In G3 I mulled into oblivion looking for it. That was a huge mistake. I spent a bunch of time today testing the OmniTell matchup, and it was very enlightening. I first played 10 games without any sideboard cards, going 1-9. Then I sided in Iona and played another ten, going 5-5. I discovered that Iona isn't all that great since it doesn't stop SnT>>>Omni>>>Emrakul. In fact there was one game where Omni just Probed, saw Iona in hand, then Wished for Release the Ants. Then Omni Brainstormed to put Emrakul back on top of library with another Wish in hand. So, when Omni cast SnT and put in Omniscience there wasn't a color Iona could name. If she named blue Omni just wins with Ants, if she names red Omni wins with Wish into Eladamir's Call into Emrakul.

My best configuration thus far has been 4 Trinispheres and 4 Thorn of Amethyst. Went 7-3 with that setup. I was playing a pretty standard list with Wastes and Ports. I've discovered that OmniTell generally doesn't have much for counterspells so you can just jam Thorn or 3Ball if they're doing a lot of sculpting. You can also just hold onto 3Ball if you're Porting them off mana and just drop it on their inevitable SnT.

It is extremely important to have a 1-drop against SnT. Lackey is the best by far. Vial is descent if you have hate+mana disruption. And Rabblerouser is a great card too, since Omni will clear the board with Pyroclasm so it is important to have a card that is both a fast clock and card advantage. They are forced to Pyro the board once Rondarouser comes down, which means you can save goblins in hand for the second wave.

Port is huge in the matchup. You really need that 1 Drop to go with it though. OR, you can keep a hand with multiple Ports and maybe some hate and just try to close disrupt them out until you draw into some gas.

3. Magus and Moon have been great for me recently. But there are a lot of Lands decks in my meta. It seems that Moon is generally stronger just because it won't die to burn, but Magus being Vial-able is really handy too. I'll keep the 2 Moon 1 Magus split for now.

4 Yes, I missed Crypt when I had Chalice @ 1 and Surgical in hand. But I still like Surgical more for its utility against combo decks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seilaquem

i have been struggiling hard against reanimator.

didn't think to play like that to play around exume. that's indeed a great plan, plus chalice@1. or maybe trinisphere+ports?

so would it better to play 2 stingscourgers? 1 for grave, 1 for the hand, to play via vial or enemy show and tell?

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I'm not so sure about Trinisphere against Reanimator since it seems a bit slow. Thorn would be better.

Yes, I think 2 Stingers are strong since the format has a bunch of fatties right now.

if you're bringing in 4x 3ball and 4x thorn into the SnT matchup, what would be the stuff to board out other than tarfires and sharpshooter/prospectors?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

if you're bringing in 4x 3ball and 4x thorn into the SnT matchup, what would be the stuff to board out other than tarfires and sharpshooter/prospectors?

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MWM, Gempalm, Tarfire. That's 8 slots that are all pretty weak. Do not side out Vial. You need Vial to make Port active.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

MWM, Gempalm, Tarfire. That's 8 slots that are all pretty weak. Do not side out Vial. You need Vial to make Port active.

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You also can bordout up to 4 ringleaders

I suppose this means any hand without a 1 drop is a straight mulligan? even if you have a couple hatepieces in it (thorn, 3ball)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

I suppose this means any hand without a 1 drop is a straight mulligan? even if you have a couple hatepieces in it (thorn, 3ball)

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ofc not. but this MU is all about hatecards and clock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

I suppose this means any hand without a 1 drop is a straight mulligan? even if you have a couple hatepieces in it (thorn, 3ball)

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Not necessarily. Hands with somthint like T2 Port, T3 Thorn/3Ball, T4 Krenko/Rabblemaster still works

Has anyone else thought that if Ruric Thar was printed as a Goblin rather than an Ogre we'd be a Tier 1 deck right now?

That's one of the big holes in Goblins I see in our deck design. Our fatties aren't fat enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Has anyone else thought that if Ruric Thar was printed as a Goblin rather than an Ogre we'd be a Tier 1 deck right now?

That's one of the big holes in Goblins I see in our deck design. Our fatties aren't fat enough.

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Well sure, but having pro-colours annihilator 6 15/15 Goblins would probably fast track the deck to the DTB as well. There isn't much use talking about hypothetical cards that don't exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Has anyone else thought that if Ruric Thar was printed as a Goblin rather than an Ogre we'd be a Tier 1 deck right now?

That's one of the big holes in Goblins I see in our deck design. Our fatties aren't fat enough.

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That or Eidolon of the Great Revel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Well sure, but having pro-colours annihilator 6 15/15 Goblins would probably fast track the deck to the DTB as well. There isn't much use talking about hypothetical cards that don't exist.

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Of course, of course. Making Christmas lists for cards is silly. It's just that we have this really novel and interesting mechanic in Lackey and Winstigator, but because of the printed cards we can only play the Card Advantage/Board Position game with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Has anyone else thought that if Ruric Thar was printed as a Goblin rather than an Ogre we'd be a Tier 1 deck right now?

That's one of the big holes in Goblins I see in our deck design. Our fatties aren't fat enough.

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That or high efficient low cmc-Goblins.

Honestly, I have high expectations now they've reprinted Piledriver: will we see more new Goblins? Hopefully there will be some useful for us. This new Scout is one I like, but will it be really that good? I don't know, but I will give him a shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by potatodavid

That or Eidolon of the Great Revel

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I think this is the more realistic dream than a 'fatty' goblin. As a general rule, goblins don't seem to exceed 2/2. The cards that come to mind where they are noticeably larger usually represent a group of goblins. See: Boggart Mob or Earwig Squad.

Fortunately Zendikar is a place with goblins! Last time we visited WotC made Goblin Guide, Warren Instigator, and Tuktuk Scrapper. :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Pyre

Quick question for more experienced Goblins players:

In an opening hand with both Goblin Lackey and AEther Vial (and things to put into play with both) - is it more imperative to try to get the Vial going as soon as possible, or is it more pressuring to play the Lackey on the first turn to get things into play for free? Obviously knowledge of what your opponent is on might influence this decision, but in general what is the philosophy here?

Thanks!

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As others have said, it depends on other factors. Assuming no information with regards to what your opponent is on, we look to the contents of your hand. I will focus on when you're on the play, as otherwise you will have clues about what you're up against.

Things that make leading with Lackey better:
Cavern of Souls - Makes Lackey more likely to resolve and therefore connect
Removal - Makes Lackey more likely to connect
Expensive Creatures - More upside if Lackey does connect
Creatures that are weak to removal spells - More likely to be useful later if your opponent is forced to spend a removal spell on a t1 Lackey.
Having taken mulligans - Lackey is more high variance, when you're disadvantaged you should be more willing to gamble as their advantage is likely to snowball and they will likely have inevitability.
Your opponent not knowing what you're on - They will be much less likely to have an answer for Lackey, as people who know that you're playing Goblins will often mulligan for one.
Having a must-answer two-drop - I'm mostly thinking of Warren Instigator here. Leading with Vial makes Warren Instigator vulnerable to a Thoughtseize. Then they can follow it up with a Stoneforge Mystic or whatever to block your Goblin Lackey. If you lead with Goblin Lackey and they have a removal spell they most likely will not get to use it on your Winstigator. Note that this means delaying Vial even more, and there are more factors which should be taken into consideration here.

Things that make leading with Vial better:
Wasteland/Rishadan Port - Vial is the more resilient way to cheat on mana, if Lackey connects you should be far enough ahead anyway.
Cheap Creatures - Makes Vial useful sooner.
Card advantage - Makes you better equipped to play the long game, where Vial shines the most.
Chalice of the Void - If you go Vial > CotV > Lackey it will be protected from the most common removal spells, and you will get to play CotV on t2 and still get both Vial and Lackey into play. Disadvantage is if you have nothing impressive to put into play off of Lackey, as it is more likely for CotV to get countered or made to have less of an impact if they can cast Spell Pierce or Brainstorm in response because they haven't spent that mana on a Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Has anyone else thought that if Ruric Thar was printed as a Goblin rather than an Ogre we'd be a Tier 1 deck right now?

That's one of the big holes in Goblins I see in our deck design. Our fatties aren't fat enough.

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Well, Goblin Goon is basically a 4 mana 6/6 goblin. I got 4 last month, but failed to create any list I like with them.