[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Well, Goblin Goon is basically a 4 mana 6/6 goblin. I got 4 last month, but failed to create any list I like with them.

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I considered trying the goon out. Generally we do have more creatures than other players but he just seems too narrow for 4 mana.

I am thinking about integrating a playset of Brainstorm into the deck. Here is what I think it can do for the deck:

1. Make you use you mana more efficiently. You can use it proactively to dig for cards that you can play/cards that match the manacost of your Aether Vials charge counters. Curving out is extremely important for an aggro deck, and Brainstorm helps to e.g. exchange multiple copies of Warchief for a Piledriver, Warchief and Ringleader.
2. Send back conditionally weak cards. Every goblin deck has some sort of (mini-)toolbox. So, why not send that Tuktuk Scrapper back against BUG Delver in exhange for something more relevant? Why not turn your 2nd or 3rd Aether Vial into a creature?
3. Brainstorm helps to switch between the two roles the deck can take during a game (aggressive/combo vs. Grindy controlish)
4. Live the Dream of Drawing 7 cards out of Brainstorm + Ringleader. E.g. draw 2 lands and a goblin out of BS, put 2 Goblins back on top, then bring ringleader and draw 4 goblins.

I know that we can beat any deck as long as we put our potential into action. In order to do so, I think we need ti stream line the deck, to make it work more consistently. Whatever your deck does , it has to do so on a regular and solid basis.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

I am thinking about integrating a playset of Brainstorm into the deck. Here is what I think it can do for the deck:

1. Make you use you mana more efficiently. You can use it proactively to dig for cards that you can play/cards that match the manacost of your Aether Vials charge counters. Curving out is extremely important for an aggro deck, and Brainstorm helps to e.g. exchange multiple copies of Warchief for a Piledriver, Warchief and Ringleader.
2. Send back conditionally weak cards. Every goblin deck has some sort of (mini-)toolbox. So, why not send that Tuktuk Scrapper back against BUG Delver in exhange for something more relevant? Why not turn your 2nd or 3rd Aether Vial into a creature?
3. Brainstorm helps to switch between the two roles the deck can take during a game (aggressive/combo vs. Grindy controlish)
4. Live the Dream of Drawing 7 cards out of Brainstorm + Ringleader. E.g. draw 2 lands and a goblin out of BS, put 2 Goblins back on top, then bring ringleader and draw 4 goblins.

I know that we can beat any deck as long as we put our potential into action. In order to do so, I think we need ti stream line the deck, to make it work more consistently. Whatever your deck does , it has to do so on a regular and solid basis.

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Have you considered Sensei's Divining Top? It may be more consistent than Brainstorm.

@gobolord: i feel like big changes that don't help the tendrils/show and tell/reanimator match ups are an act of futility. I'm still waiting for goblin duress. While we're waiting...cabal therapy and earwig squad together seems good.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

I am thinking about integrating a playset of Brainstorm into the deck. Here is what I think it can do for the deck:

1. Make you use you mana more efficiently. You can use it proactively to dig for cards that you can play/cards that match the manacost of your Aether Vials charge counters. Curving out is extremely important for an aggro deck, and Brainstorm helps to e.g. exchange multiple copies of Warchief for a Piledriver, Warchief and Ringleader.
2. Send back conditionally weak cards. Every goblin deck has some sort of (mini-)toolbox. So, why not send that Tuktuk Scrapper back against BUG Delver in exhange for something more relevant? Why not turn your 2nd or 3rd Aether Vial into a creature?
3. Brainstorm helps to switch between the two roles the deck can take during a game (aggressive/combo vs. Grindy controlish)
4. Live the Dream of Drawing 7 cards out of Brainstorm + Ringleader. E.g. draw 2 lands and a goblin out of BS, put 2 Goblins back on top, then bring ringleader and draw 4 goblins.

I know that we can beat any deck as long as we put our potential into action. In order to do so, I think we need ti stream line the deck, to make it work more consistently. Whatever your deck does , it has to do so on a regular and solid basis.

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Really?! Blue Splash for Brainstorm? Seems really bad. You might as well cut the crap and play Delver at this stage.

Also, please don't use SDT in Goblins. SDT already has a really bad rep of being slow.

@GoboLord Would the blue splash be solely for Brainstorm? Just wondering as no successful Legacy deck has ever had blue for just Brainstorm. Not trolling; just something to keep in mind.

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Originally Posted by LOLWut

@GoboLord Would the blue splash be solely for Brainstorm? Just wondering as no successful Legacy deck has ever had blue for just Brainstorm. Not trolling; just something to keep in mind.

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Thought about playing Volcanic Islands for Daze, Force of Will, Stifle, and Ponder as well?

EDIT: Maybe its time we replaced Ringleader for Accumulated Knowledge for consistency. Cause god forbid we succumb to bad luck.

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Originally Posted by valentinoyoshi

Really?! Blue Splash for Brainstorm? Seems really bad. You might as well cut the crap and play Delver at this stage.

Also, please don't use SDT in Goblins. SDT already has a really bad rep of being slow.

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Originally Posted by valentinoyoshi

Thought about playing Volcanic Islands for Daze, Force of Will, Stifle, and Ponder as well?

EDIT: Maybe its time we replaced Ringleader for Accumulated Knowledge for consistency. Cause god forbid we succumb to bad luck.

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Wow, what's eating you? While I have my doubts as well, you are a bit of rude for a new guy.

@ Gobolord: the real power of adding U would be the multiple cantrips and counterspells. That would seriously undermine the consistency of the deck. Then there's also the question what to cut? Could you give an example list?

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Wow, what's eating you? While I have my doubts as well, you are a bit of rude for a new guy.

@ Gobolord: the real power of adding U would be the multiple cantrips and counterspells. That would seriously undermine the consistency of the deck. Then there's also the question what to cut? Could you give an example list?

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4 Caverns, 2 Wasteland, 2 Pendelhaven
4 Mountain
6 Fetchlads, 2 Volcanic
2 Chrome Mox

CORE [24]
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Brainstorm

1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sharpshooter

OTHER [12]
4 Chieftain
2 Warchief
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Instigator
1 Subterrean Scout


Also I dont only want 'cantrips' as in 'additional peek and draws'. Rather I like the 'put 2 cards back' Part of Brainstorm, that no other cantrips for 1 mana offers. The idea is to trade conditionally Bad cards for good ones

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Brainstorm

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Some years ago I tried running a blue splash in goblins for Daze, then Stifle and Brainstorm. Interestingly enough, I did not like Stifle or Daze in the deck, but really liked Brainstorm. Not only tricks with Vial and Ringleader are awesome, but everything else about the card is amazing. I think I just never had Volcanics to try it out in tournaments.
Anyhow, go for it.

@SDT: Not because of the reason someone posted, but it's not worth it. We usually don't have all that mana to put into the card, and unlike brainstorm, it takes a while until it actually nets you some advantage in the game.

Merfolks have no difficult to pay U mana at all.

Merfolks have vials, guys and lords.

Merfolk refuse Brainstorm (aka the best card in Legacy).

And you think Brainstorm could bring you the thing,which it cannot bring to Merfolks? If it exists, what is it?

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Originally Posted by Tokugawa

Merfolks have no difficult to pay U mana at all.

Merfolks have vials, guys and lords.

Merfolk refuse Brainstorm (aka the best card in Legacy).

And you think Brainstorm could bring you the thing,which it cannot bring to Merfolks? If it exists, what is it?

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To be fair the biggest reason that Merfolk don't run it is that they are only in the market for 3 things. Mana, Lords and Counterspells. The mean of their spells is 2 mana and the only thing they could dig for are sideboard cards, the game 1 is rather simple, there is no card selection bonus, just consistency. We at least have silver bullets and a curve that can be clunky, which can be shuffled away for action.

That said, I don't like it, but I am willing to hear the results.

As much as Valentino is trolling he's right. If you want to play Brainstorm, play a Brainstorm deck.
Sure, if you want to just have fun and jam some games with Brainstorming Goblins go for it but don't expect it to be anything better than before.

The Khans delve spells have killed off all the last of the non-blue decks in Legacy and with it, my interest in the format. It's literally play a DTT decks or play an anti-DTT deck. I honestly don't even think we would be competitive with Recruiter right now.. alas.

I'm glad you've cut the Winstigators though Gobolord. That card is rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Stevestamopz

I'm glad you've cut the Winstigators though Gobolord. That card is rubbish.

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Hah, actually MWM was a typo and was supposed to say WI = Warren Instigator.
Winstigator is absolutely awsome.

@Tokugawa: Merfolk only shares 1 (Vial) out of 4 keycards (Lackey, Matron, Ringleader) with goblins. Plus they have a significantly lower curve and less conditional cards than goblins. This pretty much Sums up what makes me think Brainstorm can have a Spot in Goblins, but not in Merfolk.

@ ScatmanX: I had the exact same result with these blue cards when I tested them. the other 'blue' card I tested and like back then was Mental Misstep.

You cant imagine how Many times I have heard this 'If you want to play [card] then you should better play [deck]' nonsense.
If I had listen to that, I would not be playing Chalice of the Void not Chrome Mox now.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

4 Caverns, 2 Wasteland, 2 Pendelhaven
4 Mountain
6 Fetchlads, 2 Volcanic
2 Chrome Mox

CORE [24]
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Brainstorm

1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sharpshooter

OTHER [12]
4 Chieftain
2 Warchief
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 MWM
1 Subterrean Scout


Also I dont only want 'cantrips' as in 'additional peek and draws'. Rather I like the 'put 2 cards back' Part of Brainstorm, that no other cantrips for 1 mana offers. The idea is to trade conditionally Bad cards for good ones

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Fair enough.

Regarding your list:

You dropped Winstigator, wouldn't you be better of with 2 Chieftain/ 4 Warchief-split? I do see the appeal for Chieftain though.

Is the lack of Tarfire in your opinion compensated with Brainstorm, Scout, and Matron?


I'm not convinced it will do any good in today's meta, but am eager to hear your results.

EDIT: just saw your reaction, nevermind regarding split.

Scout feels pretty bonkers in the 8 lackey plus piledriver list. I haven't tested it though...but it feels more important than mwm. I was even underwhelmed with mwm when I played goblins...which was 4ish years ago.

I've played a blue splash for daze in goblins before (mental misstep too... :D). I think it's difficult to say that playing the best card in legacy (brainstorm) is "bad"...but with 2 blue sources and 6 fetches, most of the time you will use the fetch to find the volc and then not have a second one to fetch away your crap. +2 fetch -2 mountain seems like a start.

I've been using Apostle's Blessing to decent effect. My thoughts are:

The deck is filled with must answer threats. Which leads to a lot of blowouts with blessing (piledriver for example).
Protects/pushes a lacky or WI through early game which alot of times lead to a victory.
Protection for silver bullets like sharpshooter, Krenko, Thalia on others. Also protects Aether Vial.
It's castable with every land in the deck.

So far in testing it's being doing ok. The one problem (as with all non gob cards) is that it's that you can't tutor and it gets rekt by ringleader.

Greetings, I am sorta new here, but I would like to ask a few things.
I really want to build a strong Goblin deck, and I have a few of the essential cards, but I lack the mountain of gold everyone else seams to have. Is there some way that I can build a more or less, ''budget'' version of Legacy goblins?
I would like to keep it mono-red, because mana-fixing is quite expensive, but I could of course use pain lands, because they are a bit cheaper than fetch, and maybe check lands. Those that doesn't come in tapped if you already have a land of the cards given color (like: Clifftop retreat).
As for some of the cards that is (unfortunately) a must, like Æther vial, Goblin Lackey and Goblin Piledriver, well... They are out of my league. Is there some alternative options for them? I was thinking about Goblin Wardriver instead of Piledriver, or something like that. All help is appreciated, and please point out if I had any grammatical errors, because my English is not spot-on.

Thanks in advance!
-Hali

Ps. I'll try to look as often as I can, but bear with me if I haven't checked for a day or two

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Originally Posted by minihali

I am sorta new here.

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Greetings! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by minihali

I really want to build a strong Goblin deck, and I have a few of the essential cards, but I lack the mountain of gold everyone else seams to have. Is there some way that I can build a more or less, ''budget'' version of Legacy goblins?

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No... Well, I mean 'yes', but budget Legacy Goblins is still going to have Aether Vial, Lackey, and probably Piledriver.
What exactly is your intention with the deck? Do you want to participate in Legacy tournaments or just play casually with friends?

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Originally Posted by minihali

I would like to keep it mono-red

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This can be done. But typically would use Rishadan Port and Wasteland to compensate for the lack of off-color sideboard options. And those cards are quite pricey.

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Originally Posted by minihali

As for some of the cards that is (unfortunately) a must, like Æther vial, Goblin Lackey and Goblin Piledriver, well... They are out of my league. Is there some alternative options for them? I was thinking about Goblin Wardriver instead of Piledriver, or something like that. All help is appreciated, and please point out if I had any grammatical errors, because my English is not spot-on.

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Your English is great. :smile:

I very sincerely think you should consider Modern Goblins. Legacy as a format is very unforgiving to budget versions of decks.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Greetings! :laugh:


No... Well, I mean 'yes', but budget Legacy Goblins is still going to have Aether Vial, Lackey, and probably Piledriver.
What exactly is your intention with the deck? Do you want to participate in Legacy tournaments or just play casually with friends?


This can be done. But typically would use Rishadan Port and Wasteland to compensate for the lack of off-color sideboard options. And those cards are quite pricey.


Your English is great. :smile:

I very sincerely think you should consider Modern Goblins. Legacy as a format is very unforgiving to budget versions of decks.

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Thanks for the quick answer! I participate in a few FNM(s) from time to time, and right now I am just sorta' home-brewing decks. I haven't participated in a legacy tournament (yet), but I guess it would be fun. So as for now it's just for casual play, where we can build (almost) whatever we want. But. (betcha' didn't see that coming (you probably did))The ting is, I like goblin matron and goblin ringleader way too much. And they are (sadly) not legal in modern. I do understand that you can't substitute a few of the core essentials.
So, it might be a ''full-legacy'' deck someday, but that day is not today, nor tomorrow. So for now I am just scouting for substitutes, even though it might not be possible. Thanks again for lending a hand, I haven't played for long enough to truly excel at putting a deck together. Plus, modern goblins are just taking your hand, tapping 2½ mana, and dumping it, I don't like the idea of that, because if you opponent have answers, they will kick you (hard) in the shines.
-Hali

Note: An example I used when I was looking to substitute Piledriver: Goblin Lookout, and Goblin Wardriver, both are two cost card, both are (relatively) inexpensive.