Miracle Control

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

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Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

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I have not once wanted Mage over Priest... In that case, you'd prolly want Ethersworm Canonist over Mage anyhow.

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Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

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To be honest, playing Omniscience in Sneak Show is pretty rare so most of the time Priest will be way better than Mage.
Secondly, even if you would have had Mage in this particular scenerio there is a 50/50 percent chance you would have died anyway (think about naming Emrakul to be blown out by griselbrand).
Mage is boardable against a large range of deck but unless you board in atleast 3 its impact is rather low in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

To be honest, playing Omniscience in Sneak Show is pretty rare so most of the time Priest will be way better than Mage.
Secondly, even if you would have had Mage in this particular scenerio there is a 50/50 percent chance you would have died anyway (think about naming Emrakul to be blown out by griselbrand).
Mage is boardable against a large range of deck but unless you board in atleast 3 its impact is rather low in my experience.

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Obviously you just name Show and Tell, not Emrakul or Griselbrand.

Though I agree with the others, Omni isn't played too often in sneak and show.

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Originally Posted by Dissection

Obviously you just name Show and Tell, not Emrakul or Griselbrand.

Though I agree with the others, Omni isn't played too often in sneak and show.

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Yeah ofcourse, you're right. (although this would still only lock out 40% of their enablers (given a list with 4 Show and Tell, 4 Sneak Attack and maybe 2 Through the Breach) so the point can still be made in a certain way)

Went 5-1 yesterday, at my Local store, losing only to MUD (1-2).

Beat RUG Delver (2-1), B/W Discard/Surgical Extraction/Skitheryx table-magic (2-0), UWr Splinter Twin (2-0), Storm (2-0), BUG Omnitell (2-0).

Played Mort's list (2 spell pierce, 3 mentor, 0 angels), with a few changes due to local metagame:
-1 Jace, +1 Red Elemental Blast.
-1 Council's Judgment, +1 Counterspell.

I didn't really miss the 4th Sword/4th Terminus, but then again; I didn't play against any Elves/D&T lists.
The two spell pierces over-performed, actually as expected. I didn't miss the Council's Judgment (other than vs MUD, but I'm obviously playing Null Rod for this matchup, as suggested in this thread(Kappa)).

My sideboard was also different, as I don't really like stuff like Enlightened Tutur. I'm not a huge fan of Ethersworm Canonist currently either, so I played Containment Priest instead. I also didn't play Surgical, but I might have, due to 3 Snapcasters.

The more I play with mentor instead of Angels, the more certain I am that this is the list I want. This is also the first time in a long time, that my feeling of the deck have been progressing. I've felt much more alive, and felt I've had many more outs to play for. I've gone 14-3 in the last 2 weeks playing (5-1 this week, 5-1 the week before as well as 4-1 last Tuesday). (First week with Spell pierces, before that I played 4 swords, 4 terminus)

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Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

Went 5-1 yesterday, at my Local store, losing only to MUD (1-2).

Beat RUG Delver (2-1), B/W Discard/Surgical Extraction/Skitheryx table-magic (2-0), UWr Splinter Twin (2-0), Storm (2-0), BUG Omnitell (2-0).

Played Mort's list (2 spell pierce, 3 mentor, 0 angels), with a few changes due to local metagame:
-1 Jace, +1 Red Elemental Blast.
-1 Council's Judgment, +1 Counterspell.

I didn't really miss the 4th Sword/4th Terminus, but then again; I didn't play against any Elves/D&T lists.
The two spell pierces over-performed, actually as expected. I didn't miss the Council's Judgment (other than vs MUD, but I'm obviously playing Null Rod for this matchup, as suggested in this thread(Kappa)).

My sideboard was also different, as I don't really like stuff like Enlightened Tutur. I'm not a huge fan of Ethersworm Canonist currently either, so I played Containment Priest instead. I also didn't play Surgical, but I might have, due to 3 Snapcasters.

The more I play with mentor instead of Angels, the more certain I am that this is the list I want. This is also the first time in a long time, that my feeling of the deck have been progressing. I've felt much more alive, and felt I've had many more outs to play for. I've gone 14-3 in the last 2 weeks playing (5-1 this week, 5-1 the week before as well as 4-1 last Tuesday). (First week with Spell pierces, before that I played 4 swords, 4 terminus)

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Congrats on the finish. You're right with the sideboard, I'm also not totally happy with it but it's strong enough that I keep it that way. I want to be as flexible as possible (and I'm ramping up the greeeeeeed to the maximum) but there is probably a better version possible. Especially Keranos comes to mind here. Surgical is pretty good though and I wouldn't cut it anymore.

Sooo do I start the propaganda machine for 0 EtA now? ;)

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Originally Posted by mort-

Congrats on the finish. You're right with the sideboard, I'm also not totally happy with it but it's strong enough that I keep it that way. I want to be as flexible as possible (and I'm ramping up the greeeeeeed to the maximum) but there is probably a better version possible. Especially Keranos comes to mind here. Surgical is pretty good though and I wouldn't cut it anymore.

Sooo do I start the propaganda machine for 0 EtA now? ;)

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Yeah, I might start playing Keranos again, I love that card :D

I play 2 Wear // Tear though, as I basically bring in 1 in every single matchup anyway, and sometimes you just want 2. Plus it's insane with CBalance :D

I might play Surgical, but I haven't really struggled with Reanimator (or dredge, Lands or something like that yet) that warrants its inclusion over other cards.

Did anyone think about esper mentor miracles version?
With black color for Liliana of the veil (2nd best walker) and/or Tasigur, the golden fang (alternative finisher with karakas support)?

Liliana of the Veil doesn't work very well with Monastery Mentor since you rarely want to be hellbent or close to hellbent when resolving mentor. The manabase also becomes messier since you want access to u or/and w by turn 1, access to uu by turn 2, and access to bb by turn 3 meaning you might have no time to fetch basics against wasteland decks if you want to curve into Liliana of the Veil on turn 3. I have seen esper mentor miracles builds before but they always seem stressed for maindeck slots.

Black would only be useful for Discard. Not Liliana.

Liliana goes directly against what we want to do... Besides; Red is much stronger in it's ability to fight Blue than Thoughseize is.

what does Liliana that we need? We like to pass he turn with more card in hand and we already have much better tools for creature removals.

Anyways. When it comes to mentor in miracles, I tend to run a cavern of souls. Great in the mirror, and it tends to let me resolve mentor, get priority, play a top or ponder or whatever, and be guaranteed at least one token before my opponent can do anything about it. I found being a little more mentor heavy (and adding snaps/clique, with meddling mage in the SB) made my miracles build quite strong vs other miracles builds while still being good vs a lot of other decks.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Instead of commenting on my grammar (though I greatly appreciate the info because I'm always looking to improve my Japanese) why don't you actually answer the question? It's a very legitimate one, and Philip whom you @Quasim0ff worship so much has to use FoWs as a panic button for cards that absolutely cannot resolve, and yet here you are advocating taking all of them out.

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Whom I worship, because I've really showed that... When? For playing ponder?

You don't want Liliana to go ultimate. You have Council's Judgement, Pithing Needle, Clique, Snapcasters and Mentors for that. You don't like Jace to resolve - You have Cspell and REB for that. You don't like Sylvan to stick, but you have Council's Judgement, Wear // Tear, Counterspell(/Spell Pierce) for that.

Pithing Needle is a beating, so is Null Rod - Which is why you board removal for these anyhow.


Yes, I advocate to board them all out. If your plan is, as most people prefer I guess, is to be a better control deck, then force is your worst card. If you want to blank Abrupt Decay, CBalance is terrible too. That's 8 cards:
2 Vendilion Clique - Better at pressuring Planeswalkers
2 Red Elemental Blast - Better vs Jace, Better vs Vision, Better vs Tar Pit.
2 Flusterstorm - Better vs Discard, Visions, At protecting a Key terminus/Swords, Better at protecting a Jace from a FoW from them.
2 Wear // Tear - Needed to deal with their hate for you: Needle, Null Rod, Sylvan Library, Night of Soul's Betrayal/Random hate for your mentors.

Then you can even sideboard stuff like -x, + Blood Moon if you want to, because Blood Moon just says "Fuck you, You don't get to play Magic anymore."

Also, stop being sensitive. Feel free to disagree, but argue your points rather than start name-calling. That doesn't suit an argument at all, and basically just means people won't take what you're saying serious, even if you have a point.

Hi everyone, I've been playing miracles mostly on MTGO for some time, with the following list:

Attachment 292

I'm going to a "win a biland" paper tournament tomorrow and I own only 2 Jaces. I am looking for a replacement and cannot really decide: should I go for another 4 mana planeswalker to use the same curve: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar maybe? Should I go with a 3rd Snapcaster or maybe a Spell Pierce instead?

I also know that some miracles list more heavy on the mentor plan only run 2 Jaces, with some number of Dazes, but as I don't own dazes in MTGO I will not be able to test such a list before the tournament with seems to be a good way to lose a lot :)

Thanks in advance for any help!

The guy is correct. FoW is pretty bad in the matchup as you have to cling to every bit of card advantage you can get, so you never ever want to spend to cards on one of their spells. Although I don't like boarding out all of the Counterbalances as it's imho pretty important to get those Visions countered.

With my current version, I'm boarding something like this:

-4 FoW
-1 Terminus
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Tundra
-1 Counterbalance

+3 Pyro / REB
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Rest in Peace
+1 Venser, Shaper Savant
+1 Wear / Tear
+1 Pithing Needle (will be Keranos as soon as I get the Tix on Modo)

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Originally Posted by Kingbrago

Hi everyone, I've been playing miracles mostly on MTGO for some time, with the following list:

Attachment 292

I'm going to a "win a biland" paper tournament tomorrow and I own only 2 Jaces. I am looking for a replacement and cannot really decide: should I go for another 4 mana planeswalker to use the same curve: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar maybe? Should I go with a 3rd Snapcaster or maybe a Spell Pierce instead?

I also know that some miracles list more heavy on the mentor plan only run 2 Jaces, with some number of Dazes, but as I don't own dazes in MTGO I will not be able to test such a list before the tournament with seems to be a good way to lose a lot :)

Thanks in advance for any help!

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Please use a bigger screenshot. The Mentor / Daze list is outdated imho as people have adapted. And while it can still catch people offguard, I'd advise against it. I wouldn't play a white 4CC walker, although someone played Gideon against me out of the sideboard and it was pretty good. I'd probably go with the 3rd Snapcaster, but more on that when I can see your list correctly.

Ok, so my list is:

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4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

4 Swords to plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgement
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Jace, the mind Sculptor (so only 2 for the paper version)
1 Supreme Verdict
4 FoW
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels

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It is more or less netdecked from the various lists on mtgtop8. I am also still unsure of running Blood Moon+Keranos in the side any experience on that? I cut it from my side for more cliques and counters:

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SB:
2 Wear//tear
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 REB
1 Hydroblast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Redirect
2 RiP

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Originally Posted by Kingbrago

Ok, so my list is:

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Ok so I'd go for the third Snapcaster there. You probably want to switch Verdict with the 4th Terminus though.
Sideboard seems to be pretty streamlined, I don't see the need for Hydroblast and Redirect seems pretty bad. Maybe a second Staticaster or some sort of silver bullet?
Keranos and Blood Moon are very matchup dependent but will win those games if resolved. I'm currently thinking on playing Keranos again because he's very good against Shardless, the mirror (although not needed), Lands and all the nonblue decks (-Elves, probably -DnT). Blood Moon is good against the same decks and if resolved is a beating for those. On the con side is that you have to engineer the gamestate for the card to impact correctly and that's not easy at times. So in total: High risk, high reward cards for bad matchups.

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Originally Posted by mort-

Ok so I'd go for the third Snapcaster there. You probably want to switch Verdict with the 4th Terminus though.
Sideboard seems to be pretty streamlined, I don't see the need for Hydroblast and Redirect seems pretty bad. Maybe a second Staticaster or some sort of silver bullet?
Keranos and Blood Moon are very matchup dependent but will win those games if resolved. I'm currently thinking on playing Keranos again because he's very good against Shardless, the mirror (although not needed), Lands and all the nonblue decks (-Elves, probably -DnT). Blood Moon is good against the same decks and if resolved is a beating for those. On the con side is that you have to engineer the gamestate for the card to impact correctly and that's not easy at times. So in total: High risk, high reward cards for bad matchups.

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ok thanks for the advice :) Yes I was testing redirect and it is quite fun, it counters counterspells, redirects pyroblasts and abrupt decays but it is definitely not a high impact card though less situational that I initially thought.