i was now wondering what kind of deck your friend is playing tidehollow sculler in, is it a rock-build or something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pharmacist
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i was now wondering what kind of deck your friend is playing tidehollow sculler in, is it a rock-build or something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pharmacist
I made top 8 of a small 38 person mox tournament.
/ Lands
1 [IN] Plains (1)
1 [US] Swamp (2)
2 [A] Bayou
1 [A] Scrubland
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [PT] Forest (3)
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [A] Savannah
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
2[CFX] Noble Hierarch
1[RAV] Birds of Paradise
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
1 [OD] Terravore
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
// Spells
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 2 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 3 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [US] Duress
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
Decknotes: I scouted the room and asked Matt Elias if I should cut Engineered Plagues from the my SB. I didn't see too many Goblins, so I decided to cut the Plagues. I randomly picked up 2 Jittes from my binder because the tournament was starting soon, and obviously those Jittes were stone blanks in my SB. Matt Elias was playing Elf Ball and I obviously beat him in the quarterfinals when he whiffed on his Glimpse of Natures.
Round 1:
Beat UR Painterstone
Round 2:
Beat Team America
Round 3: Lost to Enchantress
I forgot the deck played red mana for Words of War and I didn't think he had Blood Moon. So game 3 I got blown out when I fetched up all duals instead of basics and died to his Blood Moon. He also resolved a Humility, but it didn't matter if I could just cast Pernicious Deed.
Round 4: Lost to NO Bant.
It was one of those situations where you 2 for 1 them almost every play but still loose.
I had a 9/9 KotR, a Noble hierarch, and I was at 4 life. He was at 20 with 5-6 lands and only a force of Will in hand.
He topdecks Green Sun's Zenith and tutors for his last tarmogoyf and then proceeds to use said goyf to chump block my Knight when he could have used a fetchland to get dryad arbor and send the goyf in for lethal if he draws a removal spell for my Noble Hierarch.
Then he topdecks another Green Sun's Zenith, makes x=2 and tutor up a Noble Hierarch. Then he randomly decides to not chump block my Knight and goes to 10. Then he, of course, topdecks Natural Order for the Progenitus to kill me...
Round 5: Frustrated that I lost to runner runner and that I punted in round 3 I still play it out for a small chance to top 8.
I beat merfolk this round.
Round 6: My breakers are really good as my Enchantress opponent went undefeated.
I get paired against Uwbr countertop with thopter foundry. I win to get the 8th place spot.
Quarterfinals: I beat Elf Ball
Semifinals: I punted against affinity.
I won game 1. Should have sided out Thoughtseizes game 2, but I kept them in and he obviously dumped his hand to blank my discard.
Game 3 I misplay a Swords to Plowshares, take 10 from a Cranial Plated Ornithopter and die to my Dark Confidant trigger. Quick little note...he also didn't know Pernicious Deed was a card as he set all his Pithing Needles on Wastelands or Qasali Pridemages. I obviously never drew the Deeds.
Based on the 5k results and my experiences in Legacy lately, it looks like this format has spiraled into an arms race between aggro-control decks and combo decks.
I love playing Rock decks, but I think I'm probably playing a combo deck next time as playing fair magic is getting pretty miserable.
It's a rock/deadguy mix. He's a big fan of them, and they work in his deckQuote:
Originally Posted by AggroSteve
@ Mishima_Kazuya nice job on the top 8. One question for you. Why did u play Hierarch over Birds? Seams like you would want the black mana
I like Hierarch cuz it attacks and helps you win Goyf battles. I'm not sure if 2 birds and 1 hierarch is correct or if it is vice versa.
I'll most likely be taking a break from playing fair magic, but if I had to play this deck again, I'd cut the Jittes for a 3rd Deed and some more combo hate, maybe a 3rd Duress?
In my list I run mox diamond and E.E. It just seams to work better for me. I don't like deed because it blows up your diamonds
I placed second in a GPT today. Anyone want to hear about it?
-Matt
Go for it mate, write an extensive report :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^^Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Deed is SOOOO good vs vial. Kill the vial and the guys pooping out of it. Also consider how big your goyf will be after adding enchantment artifact and creature to the yard. Fat goyfs are pretty good against goblins and merefolk I hear :).
Plague is not only good against goblins and elfs. Its not tividar's crusade lol.Quote:
Decknotes: I scouted the room and asked Matt Elias if I should cut Engineered Plagues from the my SB. I didn't see too many Goblins, so I decided to cut the Plagues.
Its also quite strong against some decks you would not expect:
Ichorid (horrors or vampires or zombies, depending on what kind of grave hate or hand you have)
Some bant decks (human: mother of runes, mangara, noble heirarch or in emergencies soldier: elspeth)
Belcher (goblins)
death and taxes (human)
A lot of cards have errata to be creature type human. If it looks like a human in the picture and doesnt have a "race" like elf or kor as one of its types, it is probably a human! You can look this up at gatherer.wizards.com .
I have won 6 small tournaments in the last 2 months using this list (out of 7 played). I believe this is the most consistent and stable build of the deck. However it doesnt have a lot of the "cool" things like Stoneforge Mystic.
It has a good game against every deck I have played against. I have not run into anything that just dominates it.
// Lands
2 [A] Bayou
4 [REW] Wasteland
1 [PT] Plains
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
3 [R] Scrubland
2 [AT] Swamp
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
// Spells
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
2 [FNM] Gerrard's Verdict
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [AP] Vindicate
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 3 [TE] Diabolic Edict
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [DDC] Duress
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
I am confidant that this is also the optimal board plan. It is not answers to a specific deck, as there are far too many out there to be sideboarding against only single ones. Here is why each is in the board:
Pernicious Deed and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale:
Bring this in against any horde strategy or AEther Vial strategy. Decks include Goblins, merefolk, Charbelcher, Dredge and many more.
Also quite effective against the prison strategies like enchantress and Stax (deed that is).
Bojuka Bog:
Lets you win the Knight of the Reliquary war against other Knight of the Reliquary decks. Also randomly good against graveyard strategies.
Extirpate:
Strong vs any combo deck or decks relying on certain cardss to win. Common targets include Doomsday, High Tide, Time Spiral, Natural Order, Life from the Loam.
Diabolic Edict:
This comes in vs fast aggro decks and decks that play big unfair creatures (ie Natural Order or Show and Tell).
Engineered Plague:
see previous post.
Duress:
Combo or control decks.
common question: Why the 1 maindeck Pernicious Deed?
Answer: This provides a maindeck answer to the heavy control permanent based strategies. For example thopter combo, stax etc. Also, it is only poor against a few decks, primarily combo. You can search for it with Top + shuffle.
@RexFTW
So basically you are running Brad Nelson's list from GP Columbus (knew i'd seen that list somewhere) except you cut the Horizon Canopy for a Polluted Delta... strange swap? People were saying Mox + Deed was awkward, aren't you having problems with that especially with the extra deeds in the sideboard? Do you side out the Moxen when you side in the Deeds?
@sdematt
Looking forwards to a report, I might play a deck like this (or Eli Kassis' junk with Jittes / Mother / Pridemage) in GPT soon!
More general question to everyone: Would you play this deck in a meta with a lot of Natural Order combo decks, and combo being overrepresented in general... painter, storm, etc? There is also a lot of Merfolk and I'm guessing some people without the staples will start playing affinity soon, which should be good matchups.
And now, for the tournament report:
So, I decide an hour before the event to attend. I've finished most of an essay, but decide to take a break by playing magic. I've loaned out 90% of my staples so other people could play, so after a few frantic phone calls and heavy speeding, I arrive at the tournament site and assemble my deck. I decide to go with B/W Aggro that I made up, since I didn't have cards for any other deck. I borrowed some equipment, sleeved up Revokers, and went to town.
B/W Gate
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abyssal Persecutor
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Swords of Fire and Ice
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Dark Ritual
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Board:
3 Tariff
1 Retribution of the Meek
1 Perish
4 Engineered Plague
3 Duress
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Extirpate
-----------
I sleeve the deck up, grab a coffee and fruit juice, and ponder over using my Beta duals. I decide not to, and go into Round 1 facing a my worst nightmare: Dredge.
Round 1: Tony with White Stax
Turns out, Tony wasn't playing Dredge and I was happy. Problem was, he was playing White Stax. Fuck my life. I Thoughtseize away a Crucible, and strip a Smokestack and Armageddon with Hymn. He Chalices at one, then gets some Moxen up, then blows me out with 2 Armageddons with Magus on board. Frick.
Loss
Board out: Swords, etc.
Board in: Crypt, Duress, Extirpate
Game 2, I destroy him with discard then kill him with Persecutor.
Game 3, I do the same thing. Thank god.
Score:
2-1 in game, 1-0 in rounds.
Round 2: Niko with U/B Merfolk
I know Nike's on Merfolk, and I Revoker his Vial after the Thoughtseize taking Daze. I try to come back, but I start drawing dead and die to triple Reejerey.
Board in: 4 Engineered Plague
Board out: 2 Hymn, 1 Thoughtseize, 1 Cabal Therapy
I destroy him on the play with discard and multiple equipment on a Nighthawk. I follow it up with an E. Plague for good measure.
Game 3, I do much of the same, except I use more removal and less equipment. Niko's a good Folk player, I'm glad I played him.
Score: 4-2 Games, 2-0 Rounds
Round 3: Matt W/ with Mono U Merfolk
I really didn't want to play Matt, but I had to. This goes much the same way as the previous round, where I remove Lords and use Equipments and Engineered Plagues to push through.
Score: 6-3 games, 3-0 Rounds.
Round 4: Mani playing Caleb Durward's Welder list
We intentionally draw so we can make Top 8. Tournament was 5 rounds before cut to Top 8.
Round 5: Edward playing Elves
We draw again so I can get real coffee, not the swill they have at 7-11.
Top 8: Mani with Welder, Matt W with Merfolk, Niko with U/b Folk, James H (Plague Sliver on here) with Zoo, Enriquo with Thresh, Matt P (me) with B/W Aggro, Edward with Elves, Arnold with R/b Goblins.
Round 1: Matt W with Merfolk
It plays out exactly as before, but I beat him in two games, using Revoker many times. Revoker is so good against Merfolk and, well, everything.
Win
Score: 8-2 games, 4-0-2 in rounds
Round 2: Mani with Welder
Game 1, he turn 2 Grinds me. Whatever.
Board in: 3 Tariff, 3 Duress
Out: Random
I have him on the Emrakul board in, but I never saw it. I make him discard, then Extirpate his Grindstone. I search but he didn't board Emrakul. He starts on the 3 Painter's Servant beatdown, I throw Revokers in the way until I hit real gas: Nighthawks. I eventually get there after being really tired and frustrated.
Game 3, I notice he boards in, so I fake sideboard in more cards, then just remove them. I figure he's on Emrakul. I Waste and discard him into oblivion with Turn 1 Ritual into 2 Thoughtseize and a Top. He doesn't recover, he shakes wile I show him the 2 Diabolic Edict 1 Tariff hand. He cringes.
Round 3: James H (Plague Sliver) with Zoo
The matchup I didn't want to see, since he's my friend, but we're both going to the GP. I lose both games badly, the first to mana screw, and the second to mana flood. Not much to say here.
------
I'm glad I took down second, but it didn't feel like a victory. I'm glad I lose to James H though, since he's the best person to lose to. Oh well, but congrats James!
Props: Revoker, Tim Horton's coffee, Dark Rituals
Slops: Mana floods and mana screws.
------------ AND NOW, BACK TO ROCK
@ Diabolic Edict
So many times I've found Edict depressing against Emrakul/Progenitus. Sometimes they have another random dude on board they you don't have a second removal for, or just can't get rid of. Because of this, I've switched to Tariff instead. It kills Emrakul, Progenitus, and any other nasty big creature you don't like. It doesn't serve double duty as more general kill, but it does what you want it to do better: kill Emrakul and Progenitus.
-Matt
Well if they are siding out the moxen when they bring in the deed, that is probably why they think the deed is too slow. The moxen are quite good with deed because of the speed you can play it at. The decks you are bringing in deed against it becomes a 4:1 or better so losing your mox is usally an acceptable loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamussels
Also, if you dont want the faster deed just hold your mox and play it later. You will have the same amount of land. Mox is needed against some decks u need deed for like tribal. There is moderate risk of back to basics or blood moon there.
Correct. There are minor changes to the board.Quote:
So basically you are running Brad Nelson's list from GP Columbus
So I tried Rex's version in a small tournament tonight, except I had Bojuka Bog and Horizon Canopy maindeck, no Tabernacle in the sideboard, and 2 Nihil Spellbomb instead of 2 Extirpate. Managed to beat Dredge, but lost to Merfolk and Affinity. Seems to me Affinty is a good matchup with 3 Deeds total, but I never saw one. Maybe I should have mulliganed more agressively to get them. Owell, might try it again at a GPT or go back to Team America... decisions, decisions!
With the meta turning into what it is, I'd suggest changing your disruption package to manabase instead of a hand. You won't have to killer starts but you'll be better equiped for the non TES combo decks and still have game on the aggro and other mid-ranged decks.
My experience at the GPT has gotten me thinking about my need for bigger creatures in Ale, which naturally brought me back to Rock, but for a different build. Of course the mana instability of going to 3 colours sucks, but, it's hard to be able to run the best colours in Magic, so I'll take my chances :)
I was thinking something along the lines of:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Vampire Nighthawk
As your creature base, along with some Equipment (don't necessarily need Stoneforge, but if we have room, it can go in)
1 Jitte
1 SoFI
Some hand disruption
4 Hymn
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of K.
Some removal
4 Swords
2 Edict/Path
Basically, it'd be like building regular Rock minus Deeds, Elspeths, or big stuff. Basically, you're just playing like Deadguy: discard, removal, and good creatures.
Thoughts? I'm not talking Junk and Taxes (no Vials, for the love of God) and no Mangara (seriously). Just throwing ideas around with my Deadguy success.
-Matt
well, if you would be willing to try it you could do an e-tutor package in the main. It may seem janky but you could try a x1 spellbomb + equipments, tops. anyway, i would add tops, mom, atleast a couple of vindicates, you could try pridemage if you opted for no vindicates. i always did like a singleton grunt. In all honesty he rarely shrinks goyf. He's good. also if you give the argument that it shrinks knight. You can likely shrink theirs, most decks run knight that aren't some form of combo. I guess it makes stalker harder to cast too. Maybe sculler...
Having trouble coming up with the right sideboard.
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Bob
4 Goyf
4 Knight
4 Seize
2 IoK
4 Hymn
4 Swords
1 Path
3 Top
4 Vindicate
2 Deed
1 Elspeth, KE
SB (20 cards, help me cut things!):
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Engineered Plague
4 Extirpate
3 Gaddock Teeg
1 Duress
1 Deed
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Perish
2 Krosan Grip
I'm thinking -2 KGrip -1 Extirpate -1 Perish -1 Deed, but then I'm pretty dead to Counterbalance. And Deed is awfully good too....