[Deck] Goblins

This is what I have been running lately.

SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Null Rod
SB: 3 Blood Moon

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Warren Instigator
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Bloodstained Mire
9 Mountain
4 AEther Vial
4 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Chrome Mox


Sideboard:
The sideboard I have been fiddling with a lot lately, I might up the count of Blood Moon to 4 as every time I play versus Team America or Lands I dominate them, as well as other decks that relay heavily on non-basics.

Null Rod is for affinity decks that unfortunately I sell a lot of, a turn 2 Null Rod will make most affinity players scoop.

Only deck I don't feel like I have a good matchup versus is combo elves, 2 Sharpshooters, 3 Pyrokenesis, and 4 Chalice of the Void come out form sideboard but sometimes they combo out too fast for you to even do anything. Only card I could think to add to combat that is Mindbreak Trap but I do not see a lot of storm combo decks in my meta so Mindbreak Trap would be only for Elves so not worth the slot in my opinion.



One card I have been really wanting to try out lately is Zo-Zu the Punisher;

Legendary Creature — Goblin Warrior (2/2)

Whenever a land enters the battlefield, Zo-Zu the Punisher deals 2 damage to that land's controller.

Not sure if there has been any discussion on him but as a 2 of, even just in the board I can see him being very good, soo many deck run fetches, as well as there is someone who insists on playing lands in our tournaments....


Last small tournament I went to:

Round 1: Team America 2-0 (Had MMS)

Round 2: UB Control? 2-0 (Had Bob, Click, MMS)

Round 3: Thopter Sword UW 2-1

Round 4: Merfolk 2-0 (Had MMS)

Round 5: Combo Elves 1-2 (game I won I had turn 2 Chalice for 1, game 3 he combo'd turn 3 with me on the draw, no turn two Chalice)

Round 6: Mono Blue Control 2-0 (the one that won Louisiana SCG Open, had MMS)

Top 8

Quarter Finals: Team America 2-0 (not the same guy as game 1, had MMS)

Semi Finals: Affinity 2-0 (got lucky first game, second game turn 2 Null Rod)

Finals: Lands 2-1 (first game lasted an hour, I won once finally getting a Siege-Gang out, and killing him when he sac'd Glacial Chasm on his upkeep, he was at two life, he also had like a turn 4 Tabernacle which is why it took soo long. Second game he had turn 3 Ensnaring Bridge and Meekstone, I just scooped. Game 3 was slow for both of us I mulled to 5 cards, with Mountain, Blood Moon, 2 Chalice, and Warren Instigator. It took like 7 turns to finally cast Blood Moon as he had 1 port out and I missed some land drops, by then I was at 2 life from UB Manland (forget name) and it was all uphill from there, he had Meekstone out but I casted a Chalice for 4, and he had Loam in had so Lackey and all my other 1s could attack and I eventually won by using Matrons to get Piledrivers.


Conclusions:
Mental Misstep is not that big of a deal, it is a 1 for 1 trade, you lose some tempo but it is not the end of the world, just play through it.

3 Ports might be too greedy as I remember at least 2 mulligans I had to take due to only 1 red source in opening hand. (Had no Lackey/Vial, had Warren Instigators/Chieftains.

I've been reading this thread for years, the original, the second one and now Vial Goblins 2.0. GoboLords primer is excellent, as are his observations on moxigator and stalling marshall lists. He was about to explain his sideboard but has disappeared.
This guy play tests for those of us who can't get to tournaments and he is much appreciated. So come back Gobolord and explain your sideboard.
I for one use the stalling marshall list with a white splash and a full set of ports, but that's just because i like it and it suits my game play.
In my unscientific opinion, Goblins will always be a Legacy deck to beat!

I played goblin since the goblin/solidarity/Thresh metagame. From that point, things went constantly downwards for the little mans!

Although we have some tools now, (Mindbreaktrap, Pithing needle, chalice, MM, discard, Krosan grip and some other non goblin cards) it always feels like an uphill battle vs all the unfair decks.


So i was thinking, what card should wotc print to make me play goblins again.

Goblin Hideout Keeper R
Creature - Goblin
T: Exile another target goblin. At end of turn, return it to the battlefield under your control.
1/1

Massive CIP abuse, combat tricks, broken cc like lakey/welder, yeah it would fit the "cheating with creatures" theme!

I dont know why i post this, because this develops nothing and doesnt bring back goblin back to where it once was... w/e remember this win an invitationals/become a carddesigner and print this for me xD.

Rather than discuss why certain forum members think goblins is a terrible choice right now I'd like to try and shift this thread back to card discussion (crazy concept, I know).

I ran into a couple of problems at GP Providence last weekend that I'm hoping our collective knowledge will solve.

First, I played against a pretty stock LED-Dredge list with an interesting twist - he used Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in addition to his Firestorm as his anti-goblins sideboard tech. The only way I could really find to deal with it was to waste a Matron digging for a Stingscourger, but by that point the damage was already done.

Any thoughts on other possible ways for dealing with this? Obviously cracking a Crypt/Relic when it hits the graveyard is an option, but any competent player will likely just Dread Return in response. Also, assuming this is a post-board game he likely has hate in for Crypt/Relic. Leyline of the Void is an option, but I'd like to keep it mono-R if possible.

Second, the "new" U/X Landstill lists running around are pretty brutal. The guy I played presented no real clock or threats until he landed a Jace 2.0 while simultaneously countering every spell I played. Someone above suggested Leyline of Lifeforce and/or Vexing Shusher. I don't see myself being able to stick the Shusher, and Leyline is unreliable at best. I'd hate to chalk this one up to a terrible match-up, but it's looking like maybe that's the case. I'd be interested to hear how you all play in your Landstill matches.

I'm still relatively new to the deck, so any pointers the more experienced members have would be welcome.

@Davran:
How were you in the GP?

Dredge, imo, is the same way it aways were, with or without Elesh.If they go off,we're dead, so the MU is quite bad without grave-hate. Oh,and Dread Return is a sorcery, so they cannot respond anything with it. Another thing is that Leyline of the Void is actually colorless. I don't know why you would consider Leyline of Lifeforce,but not the Void one.

About Landstill, I for one, find a good matchup. Not easy, but good. I think that only 1-2 pieces of artifact hate should be able to turn it to our side. Lifeforce and Shusher are not needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

@Davran:
How were you in the GP?

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1-3 Drop - not exactly the best showing. I played the following list:

Core - 26

2 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Stingscourger
3 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Tinkerer

4 Wasteland
18 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pulverize
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast

The first mistake I made was with my sideboard - I did some scouting the day before and saw Team America literally everywhere, so my teammates urged me to switch out Pyrokinesis for Blood Moon. Turns out that was the wrong call as Pyro would have been useful in all of the games I played save 1. Lesson definitely learned there.

Round 1 was Stoneforge Bant which should have gone better than it did. Game 1 he sticks a Stoneforge turn 2 and shows me a Batterskull. Bouncing the germ with Stinger saved me some time, but he gains a bunch of life and sticks a second Stoneforge for Sword of Fire and Ice. It was a pretty short game from there. Game 2 I'm able to blow him out with my main board Tinkerer, but he bounces back with a Stoneforge for Jitte and I can't deal with it fast enough.

Round 2 was the dredge I mentioned above. I got him pretty easily game 1 with Instigator/Piledriver beats. Game 2 I have him at 2 life before he finds a Firestorm, which he uses to wipe my board. He went off the following turn while I was rebuilding with a Dread Return on Elesh Norn and I didn't stand a chance. Game three I get him to about 5 before we have a repeat of Game 2. I never saw Crypt in either game.

Round 3 was Fish. I curved out perfectly both games and made short work of him despite Mental Misstep. For some reason he boarded in Dismember to deal with my Piledrivers...which was fine by me. 4 life for a Piledriver is a pretty good trade I think. He also let me resolve a Ringleader with FoW in his hand, apparently he was more worried about the turn 6 Lackey the Ringleader gave me...go figure.

Round 4 was U/B/G Landstill. Game 1 he sticks Pernicious Deed and counters literally every goblin I play save 1 Piledriver and the Stinger I used to bounce it out of his Shackles. It was pretty frustrating since he Mental Missteps/Fetchlands/FoW himself to 13 and never actually presents a threat besides Jace. Game 2 is more of the same, except Deed is now Engineered Plague x2. Again he plays no threat and I die to Jace ultimate sitting at 20 life. This was easily the most frustrating game of magic I have ever played.

And so ended the main event of my first GP. Stinger was definitely my MVP for the day - I never had one in my hand that I didn't want. Hell, I even fetched him off of Matron once. Also, to add another voice to what GoboLord has been saying - Warren Instigator is nuts. Most people don't even know what it does and are always shocked when Matron lands off the first strike trigger and I go find something else for the "regular" one.

I never found myself without the mana to cast him, and the only time I would have really liked Chrome Mox is against that landstill match. If I could have stuck an Instigator in turn 1 it might have gone very differently.

EDIT: Forgot to respond to your other points:

I'm not a big fan of either Leyline because I don't want to mulligan into it or draw it later when I really need some other out. Also, you're right about Dread Return - for some reason I had it mixed up in my head. In that particular match Crypt wouldn't have done any good anyway - he sided in Ancient Grudge and I couldn't find a Wasteland for his City. However, if I had Leyline he was unprepared for it...so I guess it's really a coin toss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Davran

Round 4 was U/B/G Landstill. Game 1 he sticks Pernicious Deed and counters literally every goblin I play save 1 Piledriver and the Stinger I used to bounce it out of his Shackles. It was pretty frustrating since he Mental Missteps/Fetchlands/FoW himself to 13 and never actually presents a threat besides Jace. Game 2 is more of the same, except Deed is now Engineered Plague x2. Again he plays no threat and I die to Jace ultimate sitting at 20 life. This was easily the most frustrating game of magic I have ever played.

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Do you think Shusher in your sideboard would have helped this match?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Do you think Shusher in your sideboard would have helped this match?

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Maybe, though certainly not as a one-of. I couldn't stick a Matron or Ringleader in either of the games, so unless I somehow got a lucky draw I wouldn't have seen it. Plus, once he landed Jace the next several turns were spent fatesealing my library, and I can imagine Shusher is a pretty easy "bottom of the library" decision for him.

If the landstill deck gains popularity I could see maybe trying to run 3 in the board to up the chances of finding it through the high level of countermagic and Jace hate, but our boards are pretty tight as it is. Maybe something like:

4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Blood Moon/Pyroblast/Pulverize/Scrapper/Tinkerer or the Sharpshooter/Prospector "combo" depending on the meta.

EDIT: I was thinking about Shusher some more and it occurs to me that it isn't all that helpful should he stick a Shackles. Then he just locks the Shusher up and goes back to Plan A.

I think shusher is not a good choice against Landstill. UBG has tons of removal for it, and Uw has Shackles/Bounce...
I think that for Uw, with a tunned list, a couple of artifact hate can take you a long way.
Against UBG, I tested the Blood Moons, and they're quite good. Is rare that they can get basics on the first couple of turns, because they need a big mix of mana. They have Deed too, but still, Moon is quite a pain for them, specially a fast one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

I think shusher is not a good choice against Landstill. UBG has tons of removal for it, and Uw has Shackles/Bounce...
I think that for Uw, with a tunned list, a couple of artifact hate can take you a long way.
Against UBG, I tested the Blood Moons, and they're quite good. Is rare that they can get basics on the first couple of turns, because they need a big mix of mana. They have Deed too, but still, Moon is quite a pain for them, specially a fast one.

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I agree on the Blood Moons, the trouble is sticking one. Both Moons I played Game 2 met with counters, even after baiting with goblins. He was bound and determined to not let me resolve a single spell, so Shusher may well have been the only option in that situation.

If Landstill gets more popular, you might want MD at least three Rishadan Port and slow their game down. The combination of four Wasteland and four Rishadan Port normally does well against Landstill, with Blood Moon being the final lock, though not necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Davran

I agree on the Blood Moons, the trouble is sticking one. Both Moons I played Game 2 met with counters, even after baiting with goblins. He was bound and determined to not let me resolve a single spell, so Shusher may well have been the only option in that situation.

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Well, when they have Counterspells for you first 4-5 spells in the game, than he got absolutely lucky... We can't beat everything, specially if our opponent's ass is turned towards the Moon.

Edit:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L10

If Landstill gets more popular, you might want MD at least three Rishadan Port and slow their game down. The combination of four Wasteland and four Rishadan Port normally does well against Landstill, with Blood Moon being the final lock, though not necessary.

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This is also a good option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Well, when they have Counterspells for you first 4-5 spells in the game, than he got absolutely lucky... We can't beat everything, specially if our opponent's ass is turned towards the Moon.

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Yeah, this is true. Then again, I suppose most every deck would have trouble with 16 mainboard counters.

Why the hell are we moved here in the established deck section? Guys pls speak up . . . I have been contemplating/debating that goblins is still tier 1 and competitive enough, the # of people playing this deck plumited but still this deck is the best aggro/control Legacy has produced, pls voice out your concerns on the community board topic, this is an insult to my fellow warchiefs here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pinoy Goblin

Why the hell are we moved here in the established deck section? Guys pls speak up . . . I have been contemplating/debating that goblins is still tier 1 and competitive enough, the # of people playing this deck plumited but still this deck is the best aggro/control Legacy has produced, pls voice out your concerns on the community board topic, this is an insult to my fellow warchiefs here.

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http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post555464

It's not subjective. The only way to get back into DTB is to field more Top 8s and submit your tournament reports to the Council.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter anyway. DTB is just an indication of meta-game popularity and success. If you support Goblins, then keep innovating, sharing your ideas, and talking about your results.

The only downside of being in Stablished, is that you have to look for the thread, and it may sometimes not be on the 1st page.
Ususally decks here get attention from people that are really interested on the deck. On the DtB, it seems that everyone has a guess or want to share something.
That happened once when goblins became DTW sometime ago, and happened when TES became DtB. I hope that thread start to have something productive now that it is of of it.

Too bad Goblins has not shown some good results lately.

This is mainly due the fact that Wizards of the Coast are just excited on printing some new unfair Artifacts and those Mythic Rare stuff.

The last useful cards we've gotten from new blocks are Warren Instigator and Goblin Chieftain, which aren't THAT exciting.

Still, Goblins is a very traditional deck and still can pull out wins out of nowhere and play with consistency.

I've been working with a very strange decklists, that sacrifice a little card advantadge for an all-in straight foward aggro setup.

Looks like this:

Lands [23]
16 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Chrome Mox

Core [26]

-1 Goblin Warchief
+1 Siege-Gang Commander

Others [11]

+1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Goblin Chieftain
4 Warren Instigator
4 Stingscourger

Sideboard [15]

4 Blood Moon
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Goblin Grenade (!)
3 Shattering Spree

I've tested it a little bit and it seems very explosive. The four Goblin Grenade are pretty funny, mainly if you board out your AEther Vials against Combo matchups.

I don't really know if it is any competitive in a wide metagaming, but it worths some testing, at least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

The four Goblin Grenade are pretty funny, mainly if you board out your AEther Vials against Combo matchups.

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Any testing against Mental Misstep? It seems like this would give your opponent something to do with his otherwise dead late game Missteps. I'm not sure setting up a 2 for 1 for U is a solid plan.

I love the idea though, it might finally give me something to do with all those Goblin Grenades clogging up my binder!

Hello there! Long time lurker first time writer here. I’ve just jumped here (from mtgsal forum) to talk about the BUG standstill match.

Taking this list into consideration. http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.ph...8&iddeck=44999

They only have 6 cards main-deck to counter Blood Moon (and they will not bring any more effective ones from sideboard and probably takes out 1 FoW against goblins). So if they have 1 or 0 blue-providing lands untapped and 1-2 FoW in graveyard it is almost safe to cast Blood Moon. Susher can make things easier but as it was said before - it is very unlikely him to stay on the battlefield.
Resolved blood moon is basically a gg for us because they have literally 0 ways to kill us with this enchantment on the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

The only downside of being in Stablished, is that you have to look for the thread, and it may sometimes not be on the 1st page.
Ususally decks here get attention from people that are really interested on the deck. On the DtB, it seems that everyone has a guess or want to share something.
That happened once when goblins became DTW sometime ago, and happened when TES became DtB. I hope that thread start to have something productive now that it is of of it.

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One downside of being a DtB is that player might be more inclined to test against it. Goblins falling to Established and it's absence from top eights over the past few months and mean that there is less testing and less sb hate devoted to beating goblins. This might improve the chances of a competant goblin player doing well in a tourney.