Interesting train of thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
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Interesting train of thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Don't know if that's the general best line of play accepted by the public, but my thinking goes more along the lines of letting them resolve their Discard outlets / Entombs, because they all put them down an actual card. I think you can't stop getting things in their yard forever, in the end, they might just discard a fattie end of turn with a hand full of reanimation spells and counters while you are out of everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Especially since we are talking about postboard play, when you have 3 Surgicals + Snapcasters available, I have no problem letting their discard outlet resolve, as long as they never get anything relevant into play through my counters and Surgicals. And if they go for the show and tell plan, their entombs / careful studys are useless anyway and probably just counter-baits.
If you really have 4 sb-slots for an already good (or at least not super-bad) matchup, good for you. I'd rather have more outs against Maverick / Dredge / Tempo - in other words, the real problematic matchups for U/W Stoneblade before bothering with things like Flusterstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
That man has got a point too.Quote:
Originally Posted by TkDodo
Speaking of SBs - what's the current agreed upon core?
2 Wrath (+1)
2 Path (+1)
2 Disenchant
3 Surgical Ex. (+1)
2 Pierce (+1/2)
1 EE
Has anyone tried running Gut Shot?
Tempo-less removal against Delvers and many Maverick targets, live with SCM on 1R, and the UWr lists can pay for it if needed. Seems like a decent option for playing towards earlier, stabler, stabilization (where they hopefully run out of dudes before you're out of removal).
Looks right for an UW shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
My current UWr Sideboard is:
2 Disenchant
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Wrath of God
I have 3 Bolts MD (7 Pointremoval + Snapcaster) and i included 1 Academy Ruins, to support MD Equipment and Sideboard Metamorph, Crypt, Explosives. I also like, to splitt Hate to Spell and Permanent solutions, to weaken my opponent defense manoeuver. Metamorph is a flex slot, but he can handle legendary creatures like thrun and emrakul very well, so i give it a try. My meta has only a few combo decks, so i save some sideboard slots (i also play stifle maindeck:wink: )
@gutshot: Nice idea, it hits most legacy utility creatures. But its very weak vs walker and players, you also cant hit flipped delvers, stoneforge(to avoid batterskull), manlands, small equiped guys or at some level ooze and knight(if you have luck or removed the graveyard) I prefer the old Lightning Bolt. If you want to hit utility creatures, Forked Bolt can also be an option, sure it is slow sorcery speed, but if you are on the draw or an opponent drops noble+mother, its a solid answer, compared to -4 Life+Snapcaster. It also dodges spell snares, compared to fire/ice.
I played a handfull of postboard games against Maverick, and it's not the wonder I was hoping for, but wasn't bad. Hierarch/Bird/Arbor aren't the most thrilling targets to trade life and a card for, but opening hands with Gut Shot + Swords on the play were wonderful.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Vs. Bolt: the tempo-free play is the ticket, when it can connect. It could play like Mental Misstep as removal against some of their dudes, even if you draw it later (unless it's Mother). Also, when I've tried bolt or lavamancer before, I've been unhappy with the mana-base strain of fetching Volcanic early, as it can leave you unstable or even cut off white. When blasts don't come in, then the only red spell in the deck doesn't require red, and EE@3 can be set up as necessary.
Pyroblast is strictly better, because it can target any spell instead of just blue ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
Thus, you should run Pyroblast or a Split of these when you're in fear of getting it extracted.
On the Sideboard:
I think you're mostly right on the core ...
2 - 3 Wrath Of God (Right now, 1 in the main deck should also be considered, to have "life" draws in the mid and late game, when maverick has flooded the board.
3 - 4 Blasts (If you're including the red splash)
2 Disenchant or Krosan Grip or Engineered Explosives (Not sold on the Disenchant-solution, who has gone through excessive testings with them against maverick and can tell me about it?)
2 - 4 Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm (Imo, the split is probably right, giving you more flexibility and strength versus combo)
3 - 4 Surgical Extractions (Such a wonderful sideboard card, you can do all kinds of shenanigans with them)
2 - 4 Path To Exile (Imo, there needs to be additional removal against maverick in the main deck, like 1-2 path or lightning bolt, because otherwise you will have use all of your swords on mothers ...)
I currently play:
1 Wrath of God (1Main)
3 REB/Pyroblast split
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will (3 Main)
1 Elspeth
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Disenchant
With 1 Wrath, 2 EE and 1 Academy Ruins in the Main. Haven't tested it though.
Thoughts?
I don't understand why Pyroblast's subtle targeting differences makes it 'strictly better'. We don't run any Magical Hack effects, and Black Vice is banned, so how is that useful to us?
In fact it's worse, due to opposing Misdirections being able to redirect it to non-blue spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
BUT Therapy/Meddling Mage etc. are more likely to name REB over Pyroblast imo.
So I guess they're about even.
Anyway, splitting them 1/2 makes sense, to minimize Extirpate impacts.
Kill phantasmal image.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Both have extreme corner case advantages. Reb also forces hive mind to target hive mind.
The real reason to prefer pyroblast is the black border.
I believe REB is available in a somewhat more impressive black border. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by anwei
For reference :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by anwei
http://www.eternal-central.com/wp-co...240284772.jpeg
If you have Beta REBs, you obviously play those. Otherwise, the percentages are so similar that it doesn't matter.
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The only MU I'm concerned with right now is Maverick. The first player to figure out a 75 that beats them consistently is going to win a lot of tournaments.
Turning in a board-control deck is probably a good strategy. I'm talking in the vein of Landstill or BUG (although boarding into BUG is basically impossible). I'd be willing to board up to 10 cards for the matchup, although 8 is where I'd put the soft ceiling.
Now that they're adopting Thalia, cmc=4 cards are becoming less and less attractive. The only cmc=3 cards that I like are either black or have no lasting effect if they blow it up with Pridemage.
I also wonder if boarding into a combo could be good. Painter-Grindstone is interesting. Your goal then changes to trying to get them in a position where they can't break the combo at instant speed. It's probably bad, but worth testing in post-board games.
Why not board into some Cursed Totems?
I have had success with Damping Matrix and Peacekeeper. Choke is still a pain in the ass so I leave in FOW postboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
Maverick doesn't tend to run artifacts other than Jitte do they? Why shut your own game down with Damping Matrix when you can shut theirs down with Cursed Totem for 1 less mana, and still equip your own stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignasty197
If you're expecting any Tendrils, High Tide, or Belcher then sure, Flusterstorm instead of Spell Pierce 3 and 4 seems great. I'm on the same page as not being sold 3 and 4 are needed though since we have a better combo matchup than most already and plenty to bring in if you include Surgical Extraction.
In terms of what to hit against Reanimator, it can be tough... they can just as easily be holding a hand full of discard outlets as they are a hand full of reanimation spells. Careful Study is a good target to hit since it draws them cards and lets them discard. Entomb is tougher to hit because they'll play it at your EoT, usually early in the game. Countering it can easily leave you tapped out (or open to Daze) on their turn. They'll eventually get dudes in the yard, hopefully you've stalled them enough by then to have more answers.
I don't like Gutshot. The only situation I can think of where it'd be better than PtE/Swords is if you tap out, pass the turn, they vial in a Mother of Runes, and proceed to untap with it. However, since about every deck (aside from Death and Taxes) has dropped Vial, I don't see this being an issue. You'll almost always have a turn to untap then nuke Mom before she wakes up.
Pyroblast is generally better just because it can hit Phantasmal Image. Although, I can't think of a deck that would board Images against us. Possibly some cute mirror tech? The Hive Mind advantage to REB seems less relevant since their copy can't target your copy, so likely the Hivemind is getting destroyed either way. Not to mention that you can just as easily have out a Clique/Snapcaster/Jace as not, making it moot whether or not they must target a Blue permanent. Of course, if you have the Beta REBs then knock yourself out. If someone is playing Images, just counter it with REB and move on with life. lol
Maverick is still a tough nut to crack... I've wondered before if Aven Mindcensor would be worth trying, but that's doubtful. I think really, more than any deck tech, you just have to be flexible when playing against them. They have so many avenues of attack that it's hard to work a coherent gameplan against them. I still feel like their best line of attack against us is mana-denial. T1 Noble into T2 Wasteland + Thalia is crippling. When they follow it up with a Choke a few turns later, that's game.
I used to run 2 O-Rings, but I've since moved to 2 Disenchant and 1 O-Ring and I don't even board O-Ring in this MU anymore. It's too hard to play around Thalia + Wasteland when you're Choked out. I don't want to worry about Pridemage also.
I go back and forth between boarding out SFM and not. I can't fit SFM and Spell Snare both post-board and I tend to think that equipment is super unreliable in this MU anyways. Having an easy counter to Library, SFM, Ooze, Jitte, that one faerie, and Thalia seems good (even if it feels dumb to be holding one when they play KotR or Choke).
My current boarding plan is:
-4 SFM, -2 equipment, -1 Jace, -1 Snare
+3 PtE, +2 WoG, +2 Disenchant, +1 EE
(I've also moved to running two White fetches and a 2nd Plains over the Factories, making my only colorless lands 3 Wastelands. So far, so good. I've never liked greedy mana bases.)
Cursed Totem seems interesting and definitely worth some testing. It shuts down nearly everything in their deck. It's also nice against Elves. Finding it might be problem, so you'd have to be willing to devote enough SB slots to it as I don't think Enlightened Tutor avails us too much. My major concern is that drawing into it mid-late game when they already have a big KotR/Ooze isn't going to be as helpful as just topdecking some removal. Perhaps it's a card that we'd be willing to mull for though. Landing Cursed Totem before T4 seems like a win against Maverick. I wish it came in foil... :(
Matrix is for more than just the Maverick MU. Shuts down Aether Vial, Cranial Plating, Sensei's Divining Top, the entire MUD deck, Grindstone and other stuff. I never leave in SFM and equipment vs Maverick so it isn't an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Note that Dampening Matrix can't shut down Hierarchs, Birds, or Dryad Arbor, but Cursed Totem can.