Yes, you can. City of Traitors ability is a regular triggered ability, so you can copy it with the Thespian's Stage while the triggered ability is on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsunait
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Yes, you can. City of Traitors ability is a regular triggered ability, so you can copy it with the Thespian's Stage while the triggered ability is on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsunait
oh wow. When would this be relevant though? If you play another land you would simply have to sacrifice the city of traitors, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Yeah if you played another land, you'd have to sacrifice the Thespian's Stage (unless you had it copy another non-City of Traitors land first, of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I mean I guess you could do it that way if you drew a Thespian's Stage and just wanted to get it out on the battlefield and didn't need the mana for anything that turn?
I'm testing the Dark Stage combo in MUD on Cockatrice, and i must say i'm quite satisfied; there are some things i can say:
- Thespian's Stage in the deck can be good even without Dark Depths, you can copy City of Traitors and another little trick is to copy Darksteel Citadel so your Stage will be immune to Wasteland; to activate it you need 2 mana, and that's fine in this deck.
- The 2 cards this combo fears most are Sword to Plowshares and Wasteland; the first is countered by Chalice of the Void that's already a staple 4x on MUD, the 2° is countered by Crucible of Worlds; i see from my testing that usually we don't care for Jace/Liliana cause we got Lightning Greaves (i play 3x) to win really out on nowhere
- I see this combo in MUD like just an additional way to win, you can win without it like we always did, that's why i'm testing with 3x Thespian's Stage and 2x Dark Depths (that's useless alone); if i draw it, nice, if i don't, i can just win in another way.
- I'm not sold on totally removing the Cavern of Souls, right now it fights with Darksteel Citadel for the slot
- Crucible of Worlds main or side? right now i'm playing it as a 2x on side
My list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Wasteland
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Dark Depths
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
3 Trinisphere
3 Voltaic Key
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Myr Battlesphere
-----------------
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Defense Grid
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Spine of Ish Sah/Phyrexian Metamorph
You do realize that if you copy City of Traitors with Thespian's Stage that the stage also gain City of Traitor's drawback.
Sure you can copy Darksteel Citadel with it but indestructible cannot stop sacrifice clauses.
Also, you can't name Wasteland on Phyrexian Revoker. I'm pretty sure Wasteland is a land.
Yes, i do realize.
Yes the land can still be sacrificed so Smallpox and Pox can still destroy it and then? i have 2 Crucible of Worlds in the side if i really want.
Report time!
I've played a tournament at Mana Base at Macerata last week with a Stompy MUD list:
4 grim monolith
3 trinisphere
2 thran dynamo
4 chalice of the void
3 phyrexian revoker
3 metalworker
3 phyrexian metamorph
4 lodestone golem
1 su-chi
3 wurmcoil engine
2 steel hellkite
2 godo, bandit warlord
1 sword of fire and ice
2 batterskull
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
3 mountain
4 cavern of soul
SideBoard
3 ratchet bomb
3 tormod's crypt
3 dodecapod
3 spine of ish sah
2 cursed totem
1 thorn of amethyst
I apologize in advance for any error due to lack of memory.
Round 1 Vs Jund
He wins the roll but I have a very aggressive hand:
turn 1 - monolith
turn 2 - Godo fetching batterskull
turn 3 - Lodestone
turn 4 - wurmcoil
turn 5 - metamoporph cloning wurmcoil
My opponent manged to kill Godo on the second turn and played a Deathrite and a couple of goyf, but couldn't keep up with the pressure
Side: -2 godo (is weak to lightning bolt), -1 sword, +3 ratchet bomb
I play first turn revoker naming deathrite, turn 2 lodestone and turn 3 Wurmcoil. He concedes at turn six when I play steel hellkite
1-0
Round 2 vs Charbelcher
My opponent shuffle the deck but leaves it on the the table face up with an Elvish spirit Guide on top: I immediately put him on Belcher or Hypergenesis.
My first seven where CoV, CoV, monolith, 1_mana_land x4 and, since I won the roll, I go with mountain-> Cov@0. Opponent played gitaxian probe and pass the turn. I topdeck a Trinisphere and played it via monolith. Opponent scoops.
Side: -2 Godo (too slow in this matchup), -1 batterskull, -1 sword, +3 ratchet bomb, +1 thorn
My first seven this time were Trinisphere x 2, Wurmcoil, Metamorph, mountain, port, city. I know that if I land a trinisphere is GG, but I also know that he will try to go off on turn 1 because it's the only certain window outside my lock pieces: so there was na high chance that he would go for the empty the warren route. In this case my only outs would be ratchet or monolith for wurmcoil. Since my opponent mulligans I mulligan too. Twice (six cards with no lands). I keep land, ratchet, metalworker, thorn, golem since it cannot go better than this. My opponent try to go off on turn 1 but fizzles. I draw 2 lands in a row and in the following turns I drop 3 golems on the field.
2-0
Round 3 vs aggro-BUG
Game 1 he thoughtzeise me, then drop delver and Tombstalker while countering my locks (1 daze and 1 Fow) and double decaying my accelerations (monolith and metalworker). I would have want to play around the daze, but sadly due to the pressure I couldn't afford that.
Side: -1 sword, -1 su-chi, -1 metamorph, +3 dodecapod
If jund cannot deal with a wurmcoil, BUG has problem against Godo too, so the plan here is to stick one of those asap. I start with a land and he responds with tropical->shaman. I play a port and keep his land tapped while he fails to draw a second. On my third turn I hastly play a trinisphere hoping to seal the game but running into his daze. He had fow too, but it was my error to play too fast. After a couple of turns, in which he forced my golem and a metalworker I think (I don't remember well) and abrupt decayed a monolith, I'm left with a land and a dodecapod in hand and nothing particular on the field, while he had a goyf and a shaman. He plays thoughtseize giving me a free 5/5, but his goyf is 5/6 and I cannot win the race.
2-1
Round 4 vs Maverick
Game 1 he leads with vial, Thalia, some mana dorks and a Reliquary, while I cannot find a sixth mana to play the robots that I drew one after the other.
Side: -1 sword, -3 trinispehere (too many dorks and vial for this to be effective), -1 su-chi, +3 ratchet bomb, +2 cursed totem
Game 2 I play a chalice@1 to stop his swords to plowshares then drop double golem and double ratchet against which his reliquary couldn't win.
Game 3 I drew ancient tomb, chalice, totem, golem, metamorph, monolith and ratchet: it's a strong hand against mav but I have of I get to draw a land in the next two cards, while he mustn't draw a waste. I durdle a little then keep what I should have mulled. My opponent play first turn vial, second turn waste and I don't draw a land for the rest of the game.
I committed my second error in the tournament: that hand shouldn't be keeped anyway, even if my opponent doesn't have vial and waste, because this deck doesn't have manipulation and it's not good at recover.
2-2
Round 5 vs the Rock
I play turn 2 trinispehere, then metalworker, then wurmcoil, then hellkite then chalice. My opponent plays a deathrite shaman and a reliquary and some discard, but that's all.
Side: -1 su-chi, -1 sword, +2 dodecapod
Turn 1 monolith, turn 2 godo + batterskull while she plays a Gaddock Teeg. When I attack she plays a scryb ranger and blocks godo with Gaddock and Scryb. I had to play around a couple of pernicious deeds but at the end batterksull goes in the long distance.
3-2
Round 6 vs RUG
My opponent plays an homebrew with skylasher and turn/burn. Game 1 he counters a Chalice and a Golem and plays a delver, double goyf and double skylasher, putting me at 4 life before I stabilize with wurmcoil, batterskull and hellkite.
Side: -3 metamorph, +3 ratchet
Game 2 I play a monolith then cavern naming dragon and drop an hellkite which clears his board. After a couple of turns I play a wurmcoil and a golem off a metalworker while double wasting my opponent.
4-2
Unfortunately I'm out of top 8 for tie breaking :(
The deck felt strong and should I've played correctely the fourth round I should have reached top8; Maverick is a though matchup admittedly. I definitely need more testing against BUG too, although I think he had very good hands.
The cards that I'm thinking to change now are sword of fire and ice and Su-chi, but perhaps it's because as singletons they don't show up often. In the side I may switch the dodecapods, which I played in fear of the Jund matchup which was revealed quite easy, for something more useful against BUG.
Any suggestion is appreciated.
Has anyone found a successful core of cards for Mud to build off of? I can't seem to figure out which set of cards has the best synergy against the whole format. It has been perplexing me into abyss. I've been switching from all types of versions of Mud from red to brown.
You will receive lots of different opinions on this question. I still think that a ramp aproach is better than the combo version.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcosiem
You can find my list from GP Strasbourg on page 43.
The core is
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
0-4 Buried Ruin
2 Dust Bowl
Tanks (8)
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Steel Hellkite
Ramps (11)
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith
3 Metalworker
Tools (7)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Voltaic Key
Yepp. that are 50 cards set in stone for me
Well, here's my current lists that I guess I'm settling with. It has weaknesses. I just can't seem to tinker Mud anymore. I've tried the brown version and although, i like it more, it is far much worse to figure out a good build in my opinion.
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Goblin Welder
4 Faithless Looting
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Voltaic Key
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Lightning Greaves
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Sundering Titan
2 Mox Opal
3 Mountain
1 Mindslaver
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Staff of Domination
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Spine of Ish Sah
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Spellskite
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Whipflare
Can I get some critique from some of you experience Mud players? I would really like to know what you guys think. I'm going all out on Welder and Forgemaster here.
I would try to fit at least 3 Phyrexian revoker/pithing needle, because heavly played cards like deathrite shaman and scavenging ooze are going to give you trouble. Besides I don't think you need the Voltaic keys, since your plan is to cheat the robots into play via forgemaster or welder, and with the new rulings the metamorph cannot be used to kill opposing Legends.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcosiem
I would try the following changes:
-2 Voltaic Key, -1 Phyrexian Metamorph, -1 Mindslaver
+3 Phyrexian Revoker, +1 Duplicant
Also I advice you to prepare your sideboard plans: it's easy to guess what cards you want to board in but it's more difficult knowing what to board out (even with the new rules I don't think it's good to play with more than 60 cards). For example, in your side you have 3 chalice of the void and in main you have 10-12 CC1 spells: against what deck you board in the CoVs? What do you side out?
I have one guestion for all MUD players. What cards you use against S&T decks like omnihalls and hivemind? Especially against hivemind I got nothing. Only hoping that the deck fizzles or I get very fast kill.
Chalice @ 1 is pretty good early as you shut off their cantrips. 3 card combo decks are sad when they can't cantrip.
Likewise, Spheres of Resistance / Thorns come in to slow them down.
We don't have really much of a way to completely shut them out other than just dropping resistors and attacking with dudes until they die. However, with that game plan in mind, it's very doable if you attack their mana with Wasteland/Port while putting resistors out.
Trinisphere is boss against omnihalls as it makes spells played after dream halls and ominecense still cost 3 to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
As others already said you need to shut off their resources and cantrip: cov@1, trinisphere or a fast golem can bring you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by fogxanic
Game 2 I board in Spine of ish sah, because if they manage to cast S&T it will destroy anything they've put into play. I know that omnihalls can fetch trickbind (if they have cunning wish in hand) and hivemind can cast summoner's pact in response, but if you have already put a resistor into play (golem, trini, thorn...) they'll need more mana to accomplish that, likely at least 5.
If you play forgemaster build I advise you to play a couple of platinum angel between main and side, to you fetch it in response to their kill: even with laboratory maniac they won't win.
Can't they just bounce it? They have their whole deck in their hand, so they can just Cunning Wish for a bounce.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Against OmniTell, I like playing resistors (Lodestone Golem, Trinisphere, Chalice, Thorn of Amethyst).
My bad, I was implying that you have some kind of taxing effect on the field, in that way they would have need mana to actually cast the spells and that can give you a turn or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
Without resistors on the field this decks are almost undefeatable, especially omnihalls which can counter any triggered ability you can pull off a S&T
In that case, I'd rather tutor a Null Brooch to counter the Show & Tell or Enter The Infinite. Once they have played ETI, it's game over :/Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
or you can tutor possessed portal... that would be quite brutal, shutting down EtI and dodging trickbind...
That's pretty powerful. That said, can't they just wish for a bounce instead of wishing for Trickbind? Or Trickbind the Forgemaster ability?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3