I suspect waste not will compete with Liliana for that turn one ritual. Only time it would be awesome.
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I suspect waste not will compete with Liliana for that turn one ritual. Only time it would be awesome.
I like the idea of running a split between IoK and Duress instead of the Therapies/Unmasks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh4893
Yep, I'd mistakenly thought Twist had been unbanned. My bad. The funny thing is that it wouldn't even be that good now!
Regarding Wrench Mind, I really don't like giving the opponent the choice. I see it as a card that's only really good when an opponent is down to their last two cards (and the more they're holding, it worse it gets), which makes it pretty narrow in my view. As for artifacts that can be pitched to it, spare Tops (Miracles, mainly), spare Vials (D&T, Goblins, Merfolk), Baleful Strix, Shardless Agent, Phyrexian Revoker, plus almost every card in Affinity, MUD and UB Tezzeret (granted, the latter three are Tier 2 at best, but the thought of an Ornithopter being pitched to a two-mana discard tickles me no end! ;) ). Combo decks also have the option of pitching excess Lotus Petals, which is sometimes preferable to pitching combo pieces, tutors and Brainstorm.
Cursed Scroll wouldn't be something you'd look to cast or use until your hand is more-or-less empty (it's really for the top-deck war), by which time you should have the mana to activate it. I like it because it offers a different win con and Rack effects, while powerful, also do nothing in the early game. It can also control the board and hit planeswalkers, which is something Shrieking Affliction cannot. Scroll can also be a great source of card advantage - think of all the good x/1 and x/2 creatures in the format it can take out (I think it's definitely worth having something that can take out a DRS, for example - not all creatures rely on attacking to ruin your day).
I'm not suggesting that Shrieking Affliction should be cut entirely, just that 8 rack effects may be too many (my preference would be 5, but 6 also seems reasonable) and it's also good to diversify win cons. Based on my experiences with discard Pox, the most problematic matchups involve swarms (which you've addressed with the bridges) and card advantage engines (typically involving JtMS, Ancestral Visions and Loam), which nullify the discard and rack effects once they're online.
Also, don't forget that Abrupt Decay isn't the only card that kills Bridges (though it is by far the most common): Maelstrom Pulse, Vindicate and EE also exist pre-board and there is too much artifact hate to list post-board. I think some built in redundancy is good, especially where a vital part of your strategy is concerned.
My guess is that you'll have done some testing already, but from my experience, the most difficult matchups for these type of discard decks are Shardless BUG and Punishing Jund. Also, any Loam deck is almost unbeatable once it gets it's Loam engine online (so you may need something like Leyline of the Void in the side if you expect to play any). Stoneblade and other Jace lists can also be problematic. On the upside, discard lists are pretty strong against the tempo lists - Stifle and Wasteland are basically dead cards (which backs up my point on Wrench Mind ;) ) - and as long as you lock up the board quickly enough, I don't see you having much difficulty. :)
Yeah, agreed. I think 6 Rack effects is ample.Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Jake
@hugh:
If you go all-in on the multiple Rack plan, then your clock is dependent on resolving discard spells every turn to counteract "the mechanism of the game". I've tried playing 20Duress+Racks.dec and it's hard to maintain that pressure, unless you have some permanent card draw engine like Phyrexian Arena. Since you have no way to control card quality, at some point you'll stop drawing discard spells (hitting lands or more Racks) and then opponent will break the damage lock. You need to run a ton of discard spells just to maintain that pressure, which seriously limits your deck design. Anyway, so you play a ton of discard. And you tie up your mana every turn playing discard (or Night's Whisper into more discard). But then if opponent sneaks through a faster clock (Delver, Goyf, Lingering Souls+Equipment, w/e) or kills your Racks (Abrupt Decay, Qasali Pridemage, Counterbalance, Pernicious Deed, Maelstrom Pulse, etc.) then all your discard spells aren't that useful... suddenly you're topdecking a ton of cards that discard but don't help you deal with the board. That's why Smallpox/Pox are good... they do both.
I think your deck is relying a fair bit on Ensnaring Bridge to protect you, allowing you to run more discard effects. The problem is, as the other guy said, Bridge is easy to kill/counter if you lean on it too much. And you have no library manipulation (SDT) or other ways to control card quality, so you may just never draw a Bridge all game.
Finally, you have no mana for Factory activations because:
-you have few lands (this is probably why you're already having mana issues)
-your deck design makes you tap out mana every turn to discard or draw into discard
IMO discard.dec works better when you have permanent engines to reduce their hand size. Then you don't have to use spells every turn and then you can apply pressure even when you're just topdecking lands. Liliana is obv MVP. But I'd recommend something else. Maybe Hippie (Hypnotic Spectre). Maybe even something janky like Scepter of Fugue. IMO that's the only way to rely on keeping their hand pressured.
Finally, I think you need another source of damage output for when The Rack plan isn't working (or when you don't draw more discard). I suggested Factories, but if you don't like them, Tombstalker or Cursed Scroll are other options. You don't HAVE to activate Scroll (or Factory) every turn. The point is to get some profit when you do have leftover mana or when you are drawing useless cards, so that you always have some kind of pressure to apply.
Re: Wasteland/Big Pox. Wasteland seems like it would actually make their hand bigger. But if they can't cast spells you are already winning. What cards do people sandbag to avoid taking Rack damage? Win conditions? I doubt it. If they're sandbagging/discarding win conditions, then you're already winning. Players usually sandbag extra lands. So if you attack their manabase and hand at the same time, suddenly they're forced to either play out more lands (and take Rack damage) or sandbag them (and not be able to advance their board state). That's why Big Pox IMO is so good in Rack builds. It takes away their win conditions and mana as well as cards in hand. Killing the land and creature are like virtually discarding cards... they'll probably have to play another creature and/or land to recover, shrinking their hand size. Plus Big Pox lowers their life enough that they're within a few turns of Rack damage. Even if you don't like Wasteland/Factory for the colorless mana, seriously consider more Pox effects. It's the best way to answer their board while still pressuring their hand for the Racks.
Also, attacking mana, forcing them to play lands and sandbag nonland cards is a good thing. First, you're nullifying business spells. Second, if they had ample mana and sandbagged 3 lands in hand, they're taking 0 Rack damage AND Inquisition/Duress/Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy/Unmask all end up blanking and hitting nothing. That's really bad. Then you're stuck on drawing Hymns/Wrench Mind/Smallpox/Liliana to get the lands out. Attacking their manabase means they're less likely to keep lands back in hand, which in turn makes your lategame Duresses hit a lot more often to keep your Racks alive. There's a reason successful monoblack Pox builds (with Rack) were built the way they were. There's synergy in the design.
Anyway, gl and post results. I'm not optimistic about your current build but who knows... anything can happen in small events...
Having done some more testing, I've come to the conclusion that Top is too slow, in part because of the reason you mention, but also because it's a constant manasink. Activating Top in response to Relic of Progenitus exiling all cards in graveyards to dredge my Loam back was highly amusing, though. ;) I'll probably try Library instead and also drop the Moor (which you're right about and I think would become largely redundant with the inclusion of Library in any case). This would also free up two slots, which I'll initially use to try Syphon Life and a Crop Rotation. I might also trim an Urborg to make room for a second Crop Rotation, as making BB or G has never been an issue with the four Mox, and there are times when I'd really like that instant speed Bog/Tabernacle (I'll need to give this more thought though, as I'm already cutting two black sources).Quote:
Originally Posted by beez
That winning Loam list is very interesting! It actually looks a lot like an Eternal Garden deck, with the lands trimmed to make room for some Pox elements. I'll look forward to seeing this one in action - do you know where I can find the coverage?
My guess is that the Punishing Fire is probably better than Decay in that list because of the recursion with Grove - it essentially does the job of Cursed Scroll in Pox, with the advantage that it doesn't matter how many cards you have in hand (which probably makes it better in all loam lists). 4 Entomb also means he has effectively 5 P Fires. Aggro Loam also makes similar use of P Fire and also uses Seismic Assault, which seems pretty ridiculous with Loam (awkward casting cost aside). This may be worth considering, if any of us wishes to try and run a Jund Pox list.
The only thing that surprises my about that list winning an SCG Open is that, at first glance, it looks somewhat soft to combo, what with no targeted discard, Hymns or counter-magic (or even Chalices in the side). Was there little combo at this event (or am I missing something)?
Roar of the Wurm seems decent value at 6/6 for 4. It's a short clock once the way is clear, but obviously is more vulnerable to a top-deck than the manlands. It may be worth testing and I think is probably better than Worm Harvest right now (although Worm Harvest does retrace, which has value). I was considering trying out a Mutavault as a fifth Factory (as other Factories can buff it ;) ) or possibly a Nantuko Monastery, which seems decent value and is recursive with Loam. If I did, I'd probably switch one of the Bayou for a Scrubland (which hopefully won't strain the manabase too much), so I'd not be entirely reliant on having a Mox handy to activate it.
I've also started wondering whether a BUG Pox variant could be conceived: Jace and Lili are even more insane together than when they're on their own and Brainstorm would make loaming even better (draw 3, put two land back, dredge next turn). Jace could also potentially fateseal to victory on an otherwise locked board. This could also potentially allow the inclusion of Creeping Tar Pit. I don't immediately know how such a list can be constructed (or whether it would be any good!) though. I could also be completely insane. ;)
Jund Depths looks solid. Mix between Lands and Punishing Pox. It's remarkable how many cards in the deck are either lands or pseudo-lands (Mox Diamond, Crop Rotation) and yet with Entomb and Looting there was enough gas to work.
Maybe that means these Bg pox decks actually need to up the Entomb and Crop Rotation count to find all those 1-ofs...
@ S_Jake and @FTW
Definitely good advice, I appreciate it a lot, It has given me more to think about.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////@S_Jake
Regarding Mind Wrench:
I don't like giving them the choice either, but having a card that takes up one spot in my list that discards 2 cards in one spell is still very powerful. I have changed my list taking out Unmask and cabal to run 3x IoK, and +1 Ensnaring. So I have 4x thoughtseize and 3x IoK. I have 7x targetted 1cc discard spells, the only other targetted discard in the game I would consider running (outsideunmask) is duress. Presently, having 8 cards that take 2 from their hand no matter what their type/cost and doesn't take pain or losing another card to cast, in comparison if I were to have 11 (If i ran duress over Wrench Mind) cards that can take one card, and 7 of those 11 wouldnt hit everything, making them dead cards a lot of the time. so having a little bit more tempo on the control side Is necessary.
If you find another card that is worth running over it that can discard 2 cards from one casting I am welcome to suggestions.
Regarding Cursed Scroll:
I have considered it, It can solve a lot of issues with bad matchups. but I will wait to see how my list performs this saturday before i run a card that isn't tested within the list. I also don't want to change my number of win conditions. I feel like if i add win conditions I will be hurting my control numbers.
Also, everything you mentioned that makes rack better than shrieking may be true, but the fact shrieking is an enchantment makes harder to deal with than an artifact.
Shardless BUG/Loam etc...
I have played shardless and they are a bad matchup, but my discard can lock them out of their other win conditions game 1m and my pithing needles handle their Jace post sideboard, It's a wash matchup.
I decided to go 4x leyline of the void over planar due to the fact I know there is a lot of loam/reanimator/dredge in my area.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////@ FTW
Regards to draw conditions:
I am running 4x sign in blood(I switched from night's whisper, I had night's whisper before because I was running Mishra's and now I am not so i have all pure black mana, so that 2 dmg might come in handy). The fact I have to keep up the discard is precisely why I am running 8 cards that can discard two cards from a single casting (Wrench mind and Hymn) and then Lilliana to fight their single draw each turn.
Regards to Mana:
I don't have a mana problem, you just think I do because you think more pox effects are better. I know running more pox effects will result in me having a mana problem, so I don't think they are better. Yes, they are good. Yes I have tested them(With 22-26 lands of varying numbers). No, They are not consistent in a discard deck, So I don't want to run more, but when they are used they are very powerful, that's why I run 2.
You say :"your deck design makes you tap out mana every turn to discard or draw into discard"
This is Precisely what the deck is built to do, so yeah, it does that.
More Pox:
Yeah this is the pox thread, so naturally people want more pox, makes sense.
Just like Traditional Pox locks the opponent out from playing anything (Land Lock with mixed Discard alongside Nether Void) so they can activate their cursed scroll and mishra's to swing, My deck consistently plays spells to take their cards and allows for the win conditions to do damage, It's a singular method of winning. Holding multiple means of control has consistency problems that I wished to avoid.
Win Condition:
Like I said to S_Jake above, I am thinking of running cursed scroll, but only as a 2 of. But I think your arguments for doing so are kinda just alright. If I don't have to activate the cursed scroll every turn, wouldn't that be the same as me casting a rack one turn and then being able to take their hand with more discard the next? I'd rather continue control than waste 3 mana doing 2 damage when I can use 3 mana to take out a creature, cast a liliana, take 2 or 3 cards from their hand and my rack to do damage.
Permanants:
I do agree with you on the permanents might be more consistent to continuously take their hand apart, I have Considered The scepter and Spectre before, but had the gripes with them that I have for cursed scroll and mishra's factory mana wise for scepter and the fact specter doesn't do anything until the turn later (If it can attack without getting blocked or doesn't get removed by infinite amount of creature removal spells people have), It's just not the method I want to use to play. Necrogen Mists (essentialy another Liliana +1 on upkeep), Is something I am considering, but having the activated abilities of the scepter and spectre are costly and I much rather be dealing from my hand to answer anything they can manage to throw on the board with innocent blood/smallpox/ensnaring and post sideboard pithing needle/ratchet bomb.
Sandbagging lands:
yeah, there are times that my cards hit a hand full of land, but that just means they can't play anything useful. and when you say i am stuck on drawing Hymns/WrenchMinds/Smallpox/Lillianas to get them then you're right, but keep in mind thats 14 of my 60 card main, ~23% of the deck. Whereas Iok/Thoughtseize is ~11%, anything else I draw is either a creature removal spell or lock(innocent blood/Ensnaring Bridge(13% chance)) that can allow me to removeor lock anything they do manage to get on the board, a sign in blood(6%), a win condition (13%) or a land (31%) In effect with the sign in bloods, I have essentially nearly as much chance to draw a discard spell to hit their lands as I do to draw my own lands, which only goes up with each draw I don't have them (I always Have them, Thats why they are there in that number)
The reason I don't want to run Duress is that it doesn't hit creatures, and there aren't many spells that IoK doesn't hit that Duress does, So I think it's just better to run that than making it a split or completely Duress.
But all useful insights, I argue against the negatives of running such pox effects:
1. they require you to run more land, making your draws more inconsistent and dead
2. they do damage to you and take your own cards from your hand which can stifle you greatly in attempting to control.
3. choosing when to use them is a make or break decision for your mana base or your hand.
and you argue for the lock methods it has a lot of synergy and control when they are used. Which I agree, that is why it is a deck and why they are run, I am running them to utilize one aspect of their control and strengthing around that, rather than trying to pick up the negatives they have and cushioning them, but I may even consider running more pox effects depending on how I do. We shall see.
Thanks for the backhand use of the continuous periods.........because you know..........gotta take the "good luck" back.........with use of unneccary sarcasm.
But really, thanks.......except you FTW.......just kidding........not really.....no really I am just kidding.
Edited List Taking out Unmask and Cabals, Adding Iok and +ensnaring Bridge:
Main:
2x bojuka bog
4x ensnaring bridge
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Innocent Blood
3x inquisition of kozilek
4x liliana of the veil
4x shrieking affliction
4x sign in blood
2x smallpox
17x Swamp
4x The Rack
4x thoughtseize
4x wrench mind
Sideboard:
2x engineered plague
4x leyline of the void
2x perish
4x pithing needle
2x ratchet bomb
1x zuran orb
I will whole-heartedly agree with that. Big Pox is a more skill-intensive card to play. Anyone can chuck a Hymn to Tourach at the opponent, but it's tougher to time and resolve Pox optimally. Often it requires some math, counting the life loss and several turns of Bloodghast/Spirit/Factory attacks ahead to see if it is more worth it this turn or next turn. I've won a number of games with Pox.dec between 1-4 life. Opponent thought "close game! I almost killed you", but it was mostly a precise calculation. That's the nature of Poxing. And it's easier to make a wrong decision that screws things up later. Lots of little things (down to the order you play out your lands to the order you play your discard spells and whether you Pox or Smallpox first) need to be carefully planned for the Pox to truly wreak its havoc. Sticking to all-discard.dec is more consistent in the sense that you are following a linear game plan (drop Racks and then keeping discarding their hand), so there are fewer decision paths to take, meaning it is harder to screw things up. The deck will usually do the same thing. The drawback is that sometimes you don't want to be discarding their hand, and then having redundant discard effects becomes a drawback. But you do have some removal and card draw so perhaps there is enough interaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh4893
Personally, I prefer decks that grant you more of those decision points to exercise skill to gain massive advantage on opponents. I also like that Pox punishes opponents for either sandbagging cards to avoid Rack damage or dumping their hand quickly (to ignore the Racks and try to outrace you). Either way, it punishes them. But the effect is not for all players.
I do like your new list a lot better than the first one you posted with Unmasks and such.
What kind of event are you playing in? What's your meta like? When will results be posted?
Last night I lost badly with the deck that had performed well before xmas. I had been thinking that 1cc discard would both be easier to cast, and more effective given my creature count. Also it would help deal with swords to ploughshares. (so I had replaced hymn to Tourach and reanimate with three IoK and four Cabal Therapy)
Despite my negative experience (I will stay away from 1cc discard) but may not go back to Hymn(!)
The first opponent played a UW blade control deck with no blue counters.
He built a strong board position with batterskull and dug for answers to my threats with Jace and cantrips.
More discard is obviously not the answer here. I need something that give inevitability so that the UW deck cannot gain anything by going to late game.
Perhaps something like forsaken wastes.
Also lost to a UR young pyromancer deck.
Should have been a win but I did a misplay (because I had not slept at all); used liliana to discard my tb in hand...
Yeah, I find having too many discard effects does nothing when you're losing to the board, which can happen often. More Pox effects seem good. Pox generally destroys land-heavy UW control decks. Chains is also really really strong against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Cursed Scroll or Haunted Plate Mail give inevitability.
Vs UR Pyromancer, use Night of Soul's Betrayal MD. Really good in format vs lots of things (Delver, TNN, tribal, etc.). If that isn't enough, bring in E. Plagues from the SB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
It's at Mythic Games in Elmira, NY. Magic wise they do monthly legacy tournaments, bi-monthly vintage tournaments, Friday Night Magic, Monthly 2 headed Giants, Release Drafts and release draft tournaments etc... pretty much anything magic you can think of. (they do a bunch of other stuff too like dunngeons and dragons, heroclix, infinity, video game tournaments etc....). You can see their postings of their top 8's if you look through there site enough, if you wanna see the lists of the people perfoming in my area.
link:
www.mythicgameselmira.com
The meta is a hard one, people come from 2-3 hours away in groups sometimes to play and its usually anywhere from 16 -30 people. There is 1250$ in prizes for the top 8, with first place getting 400$ store credit and a trophy and it tiers down from there. There are probably a good 10 people that play their pet decks, but they all don't always go to every tournament. Those pet decks are really versatile too: Burn, Dredge, Countertop, Elves, Stoneblade, Epic Storm, Goblins, Charbelcher, etc... There are quite a few storm and combo players (they just build different combo decks every few months and bring them out) that will show up from time to time together, so there's really no tellig what the meta will be. Last time I played there I played against Shardless Bug, Sneak and Show, 43 Lands, and Reanimator and in the room there was Burn, Red Stompy, Elves, Epic Storm, Dark Maverick and more. so there really is no telling what the meta will be. The pro's come from time to time that are from NY when there isn't a reasonably to travel to Starcity open or larger tournmant. My buddy played there 2 months ago and played against the creator of the 12 post and Epic storm decks.
I've also decided to remove smallpox completely from my list and replace it with Necrogen Mists because it makes it easier to beat the draw mechanic and lock them out of the game, and it synergizes with ensnaring, is better than instead of NEEDING lili, i also can have them run both at the same time and lili can recurringly ult/remove creatures. so i guess my deck doesnt belong in this forum without any argument anymore :-P
That sounds like a really cool event and I wish you the best of luck. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh4893
By the way, I think Necrogen Mists is definitely a better choice than Smallpox in your particular list. Just out of curiosity, have you considered Bottomless Pit? If you're playing with an empty hand, there is no downside.
Thanks for the support! Bottomless pit is cool and could be useful but I can see me needing to land a continuous discard lock early than I would like in certain situations, and if I do that then I might need the other cards in my hand. Not sure might be better than necrogen, but by turnThree my opponent usually has no hand and I have little to no cards myself so the randomness might not be that significant. Needs testingQuote:
Originally Posted by S_Jake
Just in case anyone is interested, I did a little searching and found coverage of the recent SCG event at Indy here:
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/492936471
If you want to skip straight to the feature matches that covered Jund Depths:
Rd 8 vs Andrew Shrout on D&T - 05:47:00
QF vs Chris Berry on RUG Delver - 08:41.00
Final vs Josh Guibalt on Patriot - 10:19.00
Sounds like the event was infested with Delver decks and this mercilessly crushed them. Very slowly. ;)
I'm not necessarily convinced that it would as it would be better with Lili already on the board: T1 Swamp, Rit, Lili, T2 Swamp, Waste Not, +1 Lili sounds like a better sequence of plays to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I'm not convinced that this card is as good as it looks at first glance because it does nothing on its own (making it a bad top-deck when you're behind on board). It's value is clearly greater early in the game when the opponent has a hand, but is it really better to cast this T2 instead of a Hymn to potentially remove two threats from hand? Could this cause conflicts with Cursed Scroll? What cards would it replace? I don't know, and as you rightfully say, only time (and testing) will tell.
Fair enough. I think it may be better than Necrogen Mists against decks that have card advantage engines, but it would need to be the last spell you cast. It may prove to be overkill with a Lili on board in any case. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh4893
Thanks for the link! I was in awe... I like how the deck plays :-) I would love to hear from mr Kenny Haas some decktech. Does anyone knows what he lost to?Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Jake
I think you have a point Waste Not will be better early in the game. However, maybe the card can be a late game-engine after you established control with (for instance) a manadenial strategy. Time will tell, indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Jake
Kenny did an article on SCG yesterday (09 jan 2014) with his explanations about the deck. If you want more about this, just check it out. It's in the free section.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
I gather he actually lost to a Delver deck (RUG, if I recall correctly). He said in an interview that he selected the wrong target for Entomb in one of the games, which ultimately cost him that particular match. He also mentioned that he never came across Sneak Show all day, which I thought was interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
He wrote a piece for SCG about his deck, which was one of yesterday's daily articles (Thursday 9th January).
Link: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...nd-Depths.html
I know my deck doesn't run any pox effects anymore, but with the insight from the pox community I figured I'd invite any commentary on my Mono Black Discard deck results and report on the recent tourney I attended:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Discard/page5
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
hi, i have a few cards i would love to add in, if it is possible:
Tower of the Magistrare x 2 -
Grave Pact x 2 - (with nether spirit??)
Diabolic Intent x 4 - (demonic tutor with sac.--with nether spirit in play..this becomes a very good card.
any better suggestion?
tower of the magistrate:Quote:
Originally Posted by junitor
- tower of the magistrate seems a bit narrow if you ask me, it could save you from an occasional batterskull but i don't think its useful enough to warrant a spot in pox's already tight list..maze of ith is probably better in that spot..
gravepact:
- we're not running enough creatures to utilize this card to the fullest assuming that you're running the usual creatures that pox runs (nether spirit, mishra's factory)..could be good with bloodghasts but i still feel its too situational..i'd rather run tainted aether in its place..or better yet, the abyss.. :smile:
diabolic intent:
same as above, i don't think we have enough critters to be able to use this to the max..i think infernal tutor would fit better in our deck since we can empty our hands very quickly..
just my 2 cents..
Deck update! Pox of Future Past! ^_^
Win Cons:
2 Nether Spirit
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Mishra's Factory
Planeswalkers:
4 Liliana of the Veil
Spells:
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Dark Ritual
Pox FX:
3 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
Prison:
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Engineered Plague
Land:
12 Snow-covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Engineered Plague
2 Tombstalker
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle
Combining some of Reid Duke's latest builds, old builds, and my own personal preferences has yielded this demon beast of a deck! Many tears have been shed once an Ensnaring Bridge hits the field vs. decks that punch with creatures. Sneak Attack need not apply :tongue:
The Game 1 plan as can be seen by the prison pieces is designed to kill any deck that tries to attack with multiple threats AND as a wonderful side effect auto sweeps the most annoying tempo/mana advantage cards. Bob and mana dorks can't exist in the face of this much -1/-1. It also has an awkward setup where even the mighty Dredge, unless it face-rolls you on turn 3, can be held back using a single Engineered Plague (name zombies) and Night of Souls' Betrayal. Not likely, but it's there.
Pox itself is considered 'outdated' but 3 mana to hack off 1/3 of your life is just too awesome for me to put down. I'd never run less than 2. VERY dangerous for decks that use life as a resource. [Ad Nauseum anyone?]
8 win cons: The 3rd Cursed Scroll was replaced with Pox.
Game 2 boarding (if you lose):
Vs. Fast Aggro: Plagues and Ensnaring Bridge. Take out 4 Sinkhole, 1 Inquisition, 1 Hymn. Pithing Needle for Vial Aggro and the 5 GY hate for Dredge as well. In which case, I'd consider removing more of the discard since they'll be dead draws by turn 2 or 3.
Vs. Combo: Tombstalker, GY Haters, and E. Plagues depending on whether several goblins are punching you, or Zombies. Belcher can get P. Needled and Sinkholes/Wastelands become swapped out. Take note of your opponent's face when he plays Show and Tell into Emrakul/GriselBrand/Progenitus and you play Ensnaring Bridge. You did Inquisition away his Artifact hate right? ^_^
Vs. Control: Slower game means you do NOT want the card disadvantage in Dark Ritual. The control deck's win con determines what the ritual gets swapped for. Most likely P. Needles and GY Hate may be needed. Don't bring in Tomby, he's too vulnerable.
Vs. Mid Range/Hybrids: Again, Dark Rit is not necessary vs. decks that don't auto-murder you in the first 3 turns, this makes counter-boarding that much easier. Tombstalker is VERY dangerous if you don't see Plowshares threatening to turn them into serfs.
Hidden strat: My Magic Coach who played Dredge for a very long time uses a system where he does NOT sideboard if he wins game one. Best keep your tech like a knife behind your back and crush them game 3 if it comes to that. Counter-boarding I think it's called? :laugh: