[Deck] 12 Post

The Gods and Ral all seem really bad here.

Keranos, God of Storms is just...bad, no matter what you compare him to. True, he can pull a land off the top of your deck...but Oracle of Mul Daya can do that, and so much more, for one mana less. If you can pull two lands off the top of your deck with an Oracle, combined with Sensei's Divining Top you can look at six cards off the top of your library in a single turn. Plus, Oracle even accelerates you, which Keranos does not. A single Bolt effect is not the worst thing ever, but if you were that worried about creatures, then just about any red spell that hits multiple targets would not only be better, but would almost always cost less. In the same slot, if I was worried about such things, I would rather run Volcanic Fallout, Pyroclasm, Bonfire of the Damned, Fire / Ice (which also pitches to Force of Will) or a whole host of others. The fact that the same Bolt effect can hit your opponent is also not relevant because right until the point where this deck wins, this deck couldn't care less about its opponent's life total. When we're swinging, we're not only taking out huge chunks of life, but we're taking out huge swaths of permanents. Even 100 life just doesn't matter if the opponent's board gets wiped every single turn.

Kruphix, God of Horizons is also bad. The no max hand size will rarely be relevant unless your draw is absolutely awful or do something absolutely absurd like have 30+ mana and Candelabra of Tawnos to bounce Kozilek, Butcher of Truth multiple times off Karakas. If you're doing that...just win the game already. The not losing mana is all right, but we need to be ramping up, not stowing mana away for a rainy day. I think about the best use of the mana storage ability would be to tap a Cloudpost in response to a Wasteland activation...which is really, really reaching.

Another test the Gods fail at is the Show and Tell test. When would you ever Show one of them in over a Titan or Eldrazi? The answer would be pretty much never. The other creatures in the deck scream "Answer me!" or else they pound your opponent into the ground. The Gods just sort of sit there, and may slowly grant you an incremental advantage. I would rather Show in pretty much any other creature the deck runs or has run - including Oracle and Trinket Mage - over one of those Gods: thus, the fact that you can Show in a God also isn't really relevant.

And yes, Rock is right: Ral Zarek is also still better than the Gods. Sure, you can't Show in Ral, but Ral does several things the Gods do not: he controls the board if you want him to, he can accelerate you, he protects himself, and his ult wins the game. And he's still bad. Karn Liberated, though higher up on the curve, does all of the things that matter better than Ral or Kiora, the Crashing Wave ever could.

I took 2nd in a scheduled Legacy side event at GP Minneapolis this past weekend (1st place got an uncut foil sheet of JOU). I went 5-1, with 2-0 matches against Sneak & Show, D&T, Merfolk, Miracles, and NicFit. My only loss was a hard-fought match against Reanimator, where I faced a T2 Tidespout Tyrant, and I was on the draw with a mull to 5 in game 3. Due to poor planning (the convention center was closing), the TO decided to skip the top 4 and award prizes based on Swiss, so I got stuck with a bunch of packs instead of a foil sheet I could frame.

In any case, here's my list:

Monogreen 12 Post
By: theboozecube*
Legacy
Archive: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1124167

Main Deck (61):
1*Emrakul, the Aeons Torn*
2*Kozilek, Butcher of Truth*
1*Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre*
*
3*All Is Dust*
4*Ancient Stirrings*
4*Candelabra of Tawnos*
4*Crop Rotation*
4*Expedition Map*
3*Exploration*
3*Pithing Needle*
2*Sensei's Divining Top*
1*Sylvan Scrying*
*
1*Bojuka Bog*
4*Cloudpost*
1*Eye of Ugin*
8*Forest
1*Glacial Chasm*
4*Glimmerpost*
1*Karakas*
3*Maze of Ith*
1*The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale*
1*Thespian's Stage*
4*Vesuva*
*
Sideboard (14):
3*Krosan Grip*
4*Mindbreak Trap*
1*Primeval Titan*
4*Sphere of Resistance*
2*Surgical Extraction*

Spontaneous recommendations of sideboard cards when playing the mono-green version (potential access to white)? Is sphere of resistance any good?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

And yes, Rock is right: Ral Zarek is also still better than the Gods. Sure, you can't Show in Ral, but Ral does several things the Gods do not: he controls the board if you want him to, he can accelerate you, he protects himself, and his ult wins the game. And he's still bad. Karn Liberated, though higher up on the curve, does all of the things that matter better than Ral or Kiora, the Crashing Wave ever could.

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If we're talking hypothetical Planeswalkers that will likely never make the cut, I'd like to point out Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Tezzeret the Seeker are two of the best planeswalkers ever in Legacy and they haven't made the cut into Turbo Eldrazi even though they fit our colors and work with our overall game plan. Why? Because they're shenanigans and deck space is tight enough as is, and all their abilities are already covered by other cards.

And that goes back to the Theros gods. Sure, I'm fascinated by Keranos, but that doesn't make me any less skeptical of him or any of the others. For future reference for everyone, when I say "skeptical", I mean that in order to convince me to test it, I need to hear results, not just speculation.

I'm playing a completely colorless version of this deck

Lands (25)
4 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Deserted Temple
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Eldrazi Temple

Spells (22)
4 Expedition Map
4 Mind Stone
3 Everflowing Chalice
4 Quicksilver Amulet
3 All is Dust
3 Oblivion Stone
1 Karn Liberated

Creatures (13)
4 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Sundering Titan
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard (15)
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Nevinyrral's Disk

Thats more like a MUD deck more than the deck described here >.<

But seems really nice. The deserted temple is op.

Wow :eyebrow:

I don't play Keranos over Oracle, in fact I play both of them in my version (x2 each). They are complementary and I don't oppose them.

Would I put Keranos over Titan on a Show and Tell ? Of course not, I am playing the deck for almost 3 years now, I think I understand its basics.
Would I put Keranos over an Eldrazi on a Show and Tell ? Definitely if I am playing againt a deck that can bounce/karakas/STP/Liliana my Eldrazi - more than 60% (80% ?) of the decks in my meta.

I don't understand the compare between Keranos and Ral Zarek. Ok Ral Zarek can bolt when it comes into play but that's all it does. It's +1 is really weak and doesn't protect it. It's ultimate is cool but will never be reached.
Keranos fears no removal (no blast, no liliana, no STP, even disenchant-like are inefficient because it's indestructible). Lands represents only 40% of most of the lists, that means it will give you a free bolt 60% of the time. If you can combine it with Top (or Oracle), that's magic. It adds a win-condition to the deck. (And Keranos is also blue and also pitches to Fow)

Talking about relevant plays, Show and Tell into Trinket Mage doesn't seem very relevant to me either ;)

I agree that Karn is better but it's mana cost is not the same.

EDIT: this is the list I am testing. I still hesitate between Bonfire and Punishing Fire.

Quote:

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2 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Trinket Mage
2 Oracle of Mul Daya

4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Repeal
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Expedition Map
2 Bonfire of the Damned

4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bojuka Bog

SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 4 Obstinate Baloth

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Is there any1 streaming 12-post legacy dailies on twitch?

This is what I am running atm, I do want to keep it mono G because it's my pet deck and I just love it this way. I do however appreciate input on how to improve the deck. In my meta combo is fairly abscent. There are a lot of decks that wins by turning creatures, some miracles and always 1-2 random combo decks. There are usually 20+ players so 1-2 combo is not a lot. I play 4 needles because like 16-20 decks in my meta has 4 wasteland, and if they don't they have jace, lilliana or sometimes a combination of the three.

I have been experimenting some with Natural Order, thoughts?

MD:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Dryad Arbor
4 Primeval Titan

4 Green Sun’s Zenith

2 Moment’s Peace
4 Crop Rotation

1 Karn Liberated

1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
4 Sensei’s Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Dark Depths
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Thespian’s Stage
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva

SB:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Krosan Grip
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Karn Liberated
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Gaddock Teeg

With the monogreen build, is there any reason to play one Magus of the Candelabra as a spectacular GSZ target? :really:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

With the monogreen build, is there any reason to play one Magus of the Candelabra as a spectacular GSZ target? :really:

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There are 2 reasons for me not doing it; 1 I think we have more than enough situational 1-offs that I'm not all that happy about drawing/having in my opening 7. 2 I feel like the list is tight as it is and there are other cards I'd like to play over the magus if there was space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sereon

There are 2 reasons for me not doing it; 1 I think we have more than enough situational 1-offs that I'm not all that happy about drawing/having in my opening 7. 2 I feel like the list is tight as it is and there are other cards I'd like to play over the magus if there was space.

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Sounds reasonable. But Magus' effect is quite powerful and it's your Candelabra no.2. Would you play second Candelabra if you'll find a slot for it? And, if you'll find that slot, would you try a worse, summsick version of it, that has the upside of being tutorable? Otoh, it would be one of the two targets of Bolts. Maybe the Magus really isn't that appealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

Sounds reasonable. But Magus' effect is quite powerful and it's your Candelabra no.2. Would you play second Candelabra if you'll find a slot for it? And, if you'll find that slot, would you try a worse, summsick version of it, that has the upside of being tutorable? Otoh, it would be one of the two targets of Bolts. Maybe the Magus really isn't that appealing.

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Honestly I don't think I would play a second and Ive been thinking about cutting the one-off as I don't fee its as vital in mono-G as in other versions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Togores

Thats more like a MUD deck more than the deck described here >.<

But seems really nice. The deserted temple is op.

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Well I thought MUD decks were more reliant on artifacts which mine isn't, it's Eldrazi.

I am thinking about replacing Everflowing Chalice with Basalt Monoliths. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? I know Grim Monolith is better but throwing another $60 into the deck is a little outside my price range atm and Basalt costs like $.50 each.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aes Sedai

Well I thought MUD decks were more reliant on artifacts which mine isn't, it's Eldrazi.

I am thinking about replacing Everflowing Chalice with Basalt Monoliths. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? I know Grim Monolith is better but throwing another $60 into the deck is a little outside my price range atm and Basalt costs like $.50 each.

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What about Thran Dynamo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

What about Thran Dynamo?

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Could be a good card but seems costly at 4. How does that compare to something like Worn Powerstone?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aes Sedai

Could be a good card but seems costly at 4. How does that compare to something like Worn Powerstone?

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It costs the same as double-kicked Chalice, but it adds one more mana. Powerstone etb tapped. IDK, all of them are good in one way and bad in another. I like the Dynamo, but the fact is that the one mana difference might be too many. Any chance to make some mix of cmc2, cmc3 and cmc4 stones? But yeah, than you'll always end with the wrong one. :frown:

No no no. Heartstone, Ashnod's Altar, and Sliverqueen.

Earthcraft.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

It costs the same as double-kicked Chalice, but it adds one more mana. Powerstone etb tapped. IDK, all of them are good in one way and bad in another. I like the Dynamo, but the fact is that the one mana difference might be too many. Any chance to make some mix of cmc2, cmc3 and cmc4 stones? But yeah, than you'll always end with the wrong one. :frown:

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Well with Dynamo, if I play it on turn 4, I wouldn't be able to use it until turn 5 anyway because there's not much in the deck that costs 3 or less aside from some small stuff like Mind Stone, Expedition Map, and Oblivion Stone, which I probably would have played prior to turn 4 anyway.

Worn Powerstone I can play on turn 3 and then use it on turn 4 so despite entering the battlefield tapped, it seems faster.

Now I'm thinking maybe I should replace Mind Stone too. I like it though because it's one of my only early plays and can be sacrificed later for card draw when I no longer need it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sereon

Spontaneous recommendations of sideboard cards when playing the mono-green version (potential access to white)? Is sphere of resistance any good?

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It's fantastic. Storm is your worst matchup (besides Lands). Sphere slows them down considerably. It's also solid against Elves, High Tide, Affinity, and other decks that want to play lots of cheap spells in succession.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

It's fantastic. Storm is your worst matchup (besides Lands). Sphere slows them down considerably. It's also solid against Elves, High Tide, Affinity, and other decks that want to play lots of cheap spells in succession.


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storm is not the worst matchup, elves is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce

storm is not the worst matchup, elves is.

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Sphere is solid against Elves too, as is Mindbreak Trap (for a Glimpse turn). But I've had very little trouble with Elves with my build. Crop into Chasm answers Craterhoof. All Is Dust wipes their board.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

Sphere is solid against Elves too, as is Mindbreak Trap (for a Glimpse turn). But I've had very little trouble with Elves with my build. Crop into Chasm answers Craterhoof. All Is Dust wipes their board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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post your build

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce

post your build

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Check the previous page


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I enjoy my current build quite a lot. It's the mono green list, with a minor red splash for Punishing fire. Zenith seems more useful than Show and Tell, as show and tell only provides (a lot of) speed, while zenith provides speed, utility and the potential to finish. It also helps hose combo as it finds gaddock teeg.

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian’s Stage
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Dryad Arbor

2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost


2 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga

2 Into the North
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moment’s Peace
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Punishing Fire

4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan

It turns out that Elves has quite some trouble with Moment's peace + punishing fire. Awesome!

This weekend I placed 1st at Gamer's Gambit Legacy and 6th at Coliseum "Prime Real Estate" Dual Tourney with this list:

[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Trinket Mage
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Townos
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Repeal
3 Show and Tell

[SB]
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swan Song
1 Hydroblast
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives

Matchups on the weekend included Sneak and Show x2, Bant, Affinity, bUrg delver/pyro, BUG x2, UWR Delver, Rock Hexmage Depths. Among them the loss was to B/G Hexmage, had to mull & keep on mono colorless top/map hands which are normally oka, but each game which were met with duress and abrupt decay. No colored lands to fuel crop rotation, and anything else.

The list felt extremely consistent, and I enjoy it. I'm very happy I decided to put the second needle in, they were extremely relevant, even in a few "naming wasteland" situations, which aren't the point of running needle, but it's a nice option. I didn't see the random O-Stone I decided to throw in randomly. I want another candle back in, so it'll probably go there. Two maps was stupid, lesson learned and it'll go back to 3 for certain. Force of will won me many games. I did feel a little low on manipulation, maybe due to variance, which might get the 1x ponder some more playing time.

Even though it wasn't in my list this weekend, Venser has been testing well and I think the format is ripe for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Even though it wasn't in my list this weekend, Venser has been testing well and I think the format is ripe for it.

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Nice wins :)

Venser and Karn Liberated are the two cards I constantly come back to as I am always trying to find a way to fit them in. I'd love to still fit Oblivion Stone as well: I'm at 2 Engineered Explosives main right now, but there are some times where I just wish I could hit things at all CMCs at the same time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Nice wins :)

Venser and Karn Liberated are the two cards I constantly come back to as I am always trying to find a way to fit them in. I'd love to still fit Oblivion Stone as well: I'm at 2 Engineered Explosives main right now, but there are some times where I just wish I could hit things at all CMCs at the same time.

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I'm always looking at them too. But in the end I recognize that the way I pilot this deck is more "small ball" than others. So EE, Repeal, and Needle fit me best. I couldn't imagine playing All Is Dust, or Karn... O-Stone seems to be at the absolute limit for mana intensity that isn't a hardcast Titan. O stone is so broken against a certain slice of the format, but less great against others, which is why I look to Venser's versatility to supplement EE.

Congrats on your finish Tim!

I'm currently playing a build that is pretty close to yours and i'm going to attend a tournament with this next sunday (well, if the weather is fine i may be tempted to go to the seaside, but whatever...)

[MD]
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Trinket Mage
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Townos
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Repeal
3 Show and Tell

[SB]
3 Flusterstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Swan Song
3 Moment's Peace
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Sphere of Resistance

Questions are: i'd really want to squeeze a second oracle in md, but don't know what to cut... any suggestion? Is Sphere of Resistance in your opinion a valid hoser against combo decks? i've tried it against elves and it works pretty well if cast in the first turns, it also nerf food chain combo and storm decks.. should i rely on an addition fow and CotV instead?

I ran this list on a local store tournament last saturday.

Quote:

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4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Island
1 Forest

4 Primeval Titan
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Trinket Mage

4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
3 Show and Tell
1 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Pithing Needle
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Engineered Explosives

SB: 4 Swan Song
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 4 Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

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I finished first after beating Burn, Slivoide, Mono-B suicide and Esper (2-0 each).
Oracle, Candelabra and Sensei's Divining Top were the MVP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hencules

I enjoy my current build quite a lot. It's the mono green list, with a minor red splash for Punishing fire. Zenith seems more useful than Show and Tell, as show and tell only provides (a lot of) speed, while zenith provides speed, utility and the potential to finish. It also helps hose combo as it finds gaddock teeg.

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian’s Stage
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Dryad Arbor

2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost


2 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Taiga

2 Into the North
4 Crop Rotation
2 Moment’s Peace
3 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Punishing Fire

4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Primeval Titan

It turns out that Elves has quite some trouble with Moment's peace + punishing fire. Awesome!

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I really like this list. I haven't investigated the mono green build since I delved into Punishing fire. I'm glad someone did. the MD teeg is great, and trimming the eldrazi's down without brainstorm seems vital.

I still love brainstorm too much to easily transition, but when i get some free time in the next 48 hours I'll do some testing with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I really like this list. I haven't investigated the mono green build since I delved into Punishing fire. I'm glad someone did. the MD teeg is great, and trimming the eldrazi's down without brainstorm seems vital.

I still love brainstorm too much to easily transition, but when i get some free time in the next 48 hours I'll do some testing with it.

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It feels pretty strong. I don't miss Intuition as much as I thought I would as Green Sun's zenith often plays a somewhat similar role. The same holds for punishing fire and Repeal. If you've used PF twice, it can somewhat compensate for not drawing a card after resolving repeal. Brainstorm is the one that bothers me most as well, but I've notices with the added redundancy through GSZ and Into the North, you'll frequently find what you need.

I'm interested in your results!

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Originally Posted by Davek

Questions are: i'd really want to squeeze a second oracle in md, but don't know what to cut... any suggestion? Is Sphere of Resistance in your opinion a valid hoser against combo decks? i've tried it against elves and it works pretty well if cast in the first turns, it also nerf food chain combo and storm decks.. should i rely on an addition fow and CotV instead?

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I had the same issue and cut a trinket Mage with the logic that I almost never want to trinket twice in a game, and my testing proved 1 to be enough to support the artifact suite which is mostly two-ofs.

Sphere seems just fine to me too especially as a static way to shut down good chain. For me FOW is a 0/75 or 4/75 by personal philosophy, because in matchups I want it, I WANT it- and sometimes need to mull to it (belcher, etc), so I don't want to skimp there. I don't like that sphere isn't amazing against sneak, that deck has to be respected at least in my meta, even if you're on a lot of needles. Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I really like this list. I haven't investigated the mono green build since I delved into Punishing fire. I'm glad someone did. the MD teeg is great, and trimming the eldrazi's down without brainstorm seems vital.

I still love brainstorm too much to easily transition, but when i get some free time in the next 48 hours I'll do some testing with it.

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I had the same thought process when I tried mono G with natural order and zenith overload. Even though it's redundant, it just felt criminal to cut Brainstorm with a handful of cards that can be straight useless in most game states, alongside SO many shuffle effects. PFire is so good though, can't believe a red green card is the most control esque we have these days..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edk

I ran this list on a local store tournament last saturday.

I finished first after beating Burn, Slivoide, Mono-B suicide and Esper (2-0 each).
Oracle, Candelabra and Sensei's Divining Top were the MVP.

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Nice wins! Do you ever win games with depths that you're certain you would've lost without it? How often do you go for it, and when? I haven't gotten enough info on it..

How often does baloth come in? Does it leave you feeling short on combo hate?

U guys undervalue krossan grip.
Its op vs sneak atack, food chain, humility and blood moon.

Idk why no one plays it. With swansong is my favourite card in the side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

Nice wins! Do you ever win games with depths that you're certain you would've lost without it? How often do you go for it, and when? I haven't gotten enough info on it..

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Depths: I killed with Depths only once during the games but I certainly would have won without it also. But on the previous tournament I played it gaves me two games that I would have lost without it.
The first one against Death & Taxes: my opponent hadn't anticipated the combo at all, he attacked me with all his board to kill me, in response I double cropped and blocked one of his creatures with Marit Lage and killed him at my turn.
The second one is against Belcher: I had a few lands, Top and Glacial Chasm in play versus Belcher and three mana. I drew Dark Depths, crop into Thespian and put Marit Lage into play. I still had to wait for a needle because I would have died before attacking but I found it thanks to Top and could kill him in one attack. I side out the Show and Tell against Belcher so Dark Depths here was my only solution to kill "quickly" (I wouldn't have enough time to ramp to Titan/Eldrazi).

The combo is not auto-include in the deck but with so many land tutor I think that it is almost a free kill -even if it is not the main plan. Thespian is good alone, so it only costs one slot in the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimHarding

How often does baloth come in? Does it leave you feeling short on combo hate?

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It is only the second time I played with this sideboard option. I entered them against Team America (didn't see any of them in three games) and Esperblade. Against Esper I had two in hand (and two lands) when my opponent played Thoughtseize but it was overkill anyway, I would have won without the card.
4 is probably too much but I wanted to test the card and I feared more BUG in the tournament (Hymn/Liliana). I will continue playing it, my tests are not relevant yet.

There is not a lot of combo deck in my meta, so my 8 counters are enough for me -for the moment.

I played a RUG Punishing Grove version some months ago for a little while and did some (limited) testing with 2 Huntmaster of the Fells (which can be "controlled" somewhat with punishing grove combo a'la in Nic Fit) - has anyone else tested this?

It does at least a couple of things right that I'm often looking for in that slot (creature other than Titan):

1) Immediate impact (2 life, 2 2/2s) that isn't ruined by one removal spell
2) CC = 4 so both playable fairly fast and above Abrupt Decay range
3) GSZ fetchable (sometimes relevant though I'm off the GSZs right now).

Obviously, if you can get it to flip a couple of times, it's starting to look good vs. decks with two-toughness creatures killing everything from Thalia to Delver to Bob. And just as obviously, it sometimes is a little weak compared to something like Oracle.

Just to tell something I did with the punishig rug deck last week.

g2 vs death and taxes:

I have sensei 2 cloudpost, forest, island, tropical and candelabra.
My opp has a serra avenger 3 plains 1 karkacas 1 vial at 2 counters and a thalia.


My opp tiks the vial to 3
Opp atacks me going to 9 lives
Then puts a flikerwist in play removin thalia.
Then he proceds to cataclism me, I change sensei and keep a cloudpost and candelabra. he keeps the vial, karacas and avenger and in end phase thalia returns.
On my turn I play second cloudpost untap both with candelabra play sensei and pass.
He atacks with both puting me on 4
On my turn I play a grove and pass.
He atacks I punishing the Thanlia, he return it to hand being unable to recast. and go to 1 live. I untap the grove and get punishing back.
On my turn I play a tropical and pass.
He atacks I punishing the avenger, play crop for another grove and use it to recover the fire. Then untap all my lands and punishing again and recover the fire.
My opp is left with just vial at 3 and karacas and now im able to punishing 2-3 times each turn.

Cool wining after geting board beaten by cataclism ^^

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive


Jeremiah rudolph now in the feature with uw post


And he just won the game with krosan grip

+1111 for myself <3

Represent!!!!!!