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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GodsAreShining
Hi all storm players!! Ive played this deck along time ago and after ive switched to show and tell xD now im looking to come back to ant but ive see all list are running grim tutor and my answer is that card can be changed with something else?? Thx all ^^
There are several options, depending on what you prefer:
- More Preordains
- (More) Sensei's Divining Top
- Second PiF or ToA, in semi-grinding station style.
- Second Ad Nauseam
- Lim-Dul's Vault
- Burning Wish (Probably run 3 or so then, but I don't like these lists.)
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamieW89
There are several options, depending on what you prefer:
- More Preordains
- (More) Sensei's Divining Top
- Second PiF or ToA, in semi-grinding station style.
- Second Ad Nauseam
- Lim-Dul's Vault
- Burning Wish (Probably run 3 or so then, but I don't like these lists.)
Second PIF. Not even close
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
Second PIF. Not even close
Lemnear, what's your reasoning behind second PIF? It's not something I've often seen - I feel like a second Tendrils works well with natural chains and resiliency vs DRS, etc.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
laserstone
Lemnear, what's your reasoning behind second PIF? It's not something I've often seen - I feel like a second Tendrils works well with natural chains and resiliency vs DRS, etc.
Because it allows you to go off w/o IT in hand or in your graveyard by digging through your deck with flashbacked cantrips and allows you to create cardadvantage midgame via value-flashbacks for cantrips and discard galores just to finish your opponent later by flashbacking PIF itself
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
no need to post, Lemnear does all the work for me :wink: I can only back his words
PIF - actually interesting situation on SCG stream - R15G1 Briksza - Merriam, Briksza misplays with Agent... Merriam understands well his situation and Duresses turn earlier in hope of going off next turn drawing a mana, gets rewarded with DR and promptly goes for PIF, also good, but DR -> IT -> ToA is a food for thought, he does that too quickly for my liking, my instinct play would be IT-> LED (U) ... I need to reconstruct the situation to find what's better after his list gets published
also did Phazonmutant top 8 Vancouver classic?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
no need to post, Lemnear does all the work for me :wink: I can only back his words
PIF - actually interesting situation on SCG stream - R15G1 Briksza - Merriam, Briksza misplays with Agent... Merriam understands well his situation and Duresses turn earlier in hope of going off next turn drawing a mana, gets rewarded with DR and promptly goes for PIF, also good, but DR -> IT -> ToA is a food for thought, he does that too quickly for my liking, my instinct play would be IT-> LED (U) ... I need to reconstruct the situation to find what's better after his list gets published
also did Phazonmutant top 8 Vancouver classic?
I believe he made top 4.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Hi to all of you. I've been playing storm for more than to years, since i was 16. For a year and a half i played the burning wish version of the deck that was popularized by Timo Schunemann in Ghent with some great results, like a top 4 in a 147 players tournament (January 2014 LCL), some top8s in 90-120 people tournaments and others in little ones and a 10th place in the Last Chance Trial of the BoM7 (427 players). Since July i've been playing the "preordain version" with 2 of them, 1 grim tutor and 7 discard spells. These lasts months i've good some good results but not as good as the previous (A top8 in a 70 people tournament and some X-0 in LGS). I must say that i've been quite unlicky in the 70+ ppl tournaments: i haven't won the first round of the last 6 ones, what is a ******* ****. Also, i think i've focused more in reading, discussing and learning than in testing, and i've noticced this in some difficult situations that i haven't been able to resolve.
Due to this, i've decided to begin some serious testing in Cockatrice, and my results this week are good, but could be better: 18-8:
Miracles: 2-2
Dark depths: 2-0
Deathblade: 1-1
Elves: 1-1
Jeskai Ascendancy: 1-1
ANT: 1-0
Jeskai blade: 1-0
Burn: 1-0
Jund: 1-0
Painters: 1-0
Dredge: 1-0
Junk rock: 1-0
Grixis delver: 1-0
Lands: 1-0
Big red:1-0
Affinity: 1-0
Patriot: 0-1
Sneak and show: 0-1
BRUG tempo: 0-1
The 18-8 result seems OK, but most of the wins are aggainst not tier1-2 decks, so i don't think the results are good enough to be very happy. I'll keep testing and writting down my results every week, so every sunday night/ monday i'll post them with some conclusions if I have something in mind. At the moment i must say that in the first games i noticed my lack of practice and commited some missplays that costed me games.
For reference, my list is this one:
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Grim Tutor
1 Past in flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Infernal tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian probe
2 Preordain
4 Cabal therapy
3 Duress
4 Dark ritual
4 Cabal ritual
4 Lion's eye diamond
4 Lotus petal
4 Polluted delta
2 Misty rainforest
2 Underground sea
1 Bloodstained mire
1 Verdant catacombs (I like having the same acces to blue and black, maybe i'm wrong but i've always been fine playing this configuration)
1 Volcanic island
1 Tropical island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
SIDEBOARD:
3 Abrupt decay
3 Xantid swarm
2 Sensei's divining top
1 Krosan grip
1 Empty the warrens
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Flusterstorm
1 Chain of vapor
1 Disfigure (It was the 2nd chain, but i noticed i only boarded chains to deal with creatures (1 is enough for leylines, and they are not common in my meta), and i prefered killing them, being able to reduce the pressure than having to wait till the last turn playing around a thalia, meddling, canonist or shaman.
I'll tell you my progress and results, the next important event i'll face is the January's Catalan League of Legacy on Saturday 24th!
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Ross merriam leaved Elves to jump into a second place of last scg. Sad kid ape killed him in the finals.
Great result anyway.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
also did Phazonmutant top 8 Vancouver classic?
Mighty kind of you to notice! :laugh:
True, I top4'd the Vancouver Classic. It was only 36 players with few tier 1 decks, but it still counts for something I suppose.
R1 - White Stax 2-1. Yup. He mulliganned 4 times in the match. I did lose a game where he had lots of hate on the play, but multiple Decays + consistency prevailed.
R2 - ESG on Carpet of Flowers Maverick 2-0. He played a similar list to the one he split top 4 with last weekend (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15676&iddeck=116661), which turned out to be a bad meta call.
R3 - Affinity 2-0. He boarded in 13 cards, but you have to draw them, and I drew a fine anti-hate hand that won on turn 3 through Crypt.
R4 - UR Delver 2-0. He had very little interaction game 1, and I won with a single Duress despite me drawing 5 lands and no LEDs. He did have Therapies post-board, but I played the control and Therapied him for Pyromancer. That forced him in a position to strip me of a guaranteed win by sac'ing his only threat, but I cantripped into a kill before he drew any pressure.
R5 ID
R6 ID
Top 8 is 2 Mono-U Omniscience, 2 ANT, 2 Miracles, 1 UR Delver, 1 Reanimator. Very strange. Lots of combo in the room, very little Delver or U/W/x Stoneblade from what I could see. Unfortunately the only X-2 that could make it, Bill Stark, won his match and made the brackets such that I played Miracles twice.
Quarters - Tom on Miracles 2-0. He's on The Source, but I forget his name. We had interesting games where he didn't lock me out with Counterbalance. Game 2 I Topped to set up a bait Ad Nauseam cast off 5 lands, then cantripped 4 times and cast a few mana spells to tutor for Tendrils for exactly lethal (with Rest in Peace in play).
Semis - Miracles 0-2. He apparently plays against Bill pretty often at work (at WotC). Game 1 I could have won through the Counterbalance he hid on top and then played, but I was forced to go for it when he revealed a Top. I was 75% sure he had a blue card for a Force I knew about, but it wasn't getting better. He had it. Game 2 he seemed to draw exactly the right card 3 of 4 draw steps. I Duressed him seeing Force, Ponder, Surgical, Swords to Plowshares, Mystic Gate, Volcanic, Plains. Next turn I Duressed the Force he drew. The next turn, he Pondered into Counterbalance. I Grim Tutored for Decay. He drew another Counterbalance (blind). I Infernal Tutored another Decay. He played Clique to take the Decay I tutored for. I then lost to a no-win situation of pressure + 2 Counterbalance + Top. Very frustrating.
I was happy with the swap of Massacre to Sensei's Top. Top is still great against Miracles. And to segue to something that had been discussed in the thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lemnear
I'm not a fan of DoN. Not because if fails to remove SFM, Revoker or Canonist, but because it also has zero application against UWR Delver or decks with Meddling Mage in general. I strickly prefer Massacre because you can sweep the whole UWR board (including Delver) for zero if they control a Tundra and gain plenty of time. Against D&T, you can opt to board Decays in addition if you don't want to spend more slots for dedicated creature removal in your sideboard, I guess
I was totally onboard with your reasoning a month ago. I've played Massacre in a couple large events now though and I really don't think Massacre is necessary against UW/x decks. Chain of Vapor is fine because they don't really have that many hate permanents, Meddling Mage is usually able to be played through (no matter what they name), and they don't always draw it. It's also not great against Maverick, which is by far the hardest of the hate bear matchups. In that matchup, the actual trump is to cantrip into Dread of Night and then tutor for another. That basically hard-locks them, and it's trivial to win from there, no matter how many resources you expend.
And to address an ongoing discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sawatarix
To be homest,i've never missed the additional blue land until now in my storm carreer.
All lands except Swamp and Bayou/Badlands produce blue and that's enough if you run 10 blue spells (I'm not counting Gitaxian Probe here because it's a zero mana spell most of the time)
What we really need are as many initial black sources as possible.You all know that duress into dark rituals+kill is a common play.If one of these spells get countered we still should be able to fire off other rituals during the same turn.
Smart players try to counter our rituals,keep that in mind.
The key difference in how we look at it is the opener vs. going off. A hand with a blue source, cantrip, and anything else (pretty much) is a snap keep. A hand with a black source and enough black spells to kill is a keep, although sketchier unless you have protection. A hand with a black source, no kill is not a keep, regardless if you have a cantrip or not. By playing the maximum number of blue lands, I reduce the inconsistency in openers, which I believe is the easiest place to lose. ANT mulligans ok, but not that great.
Honestly once you keep the hand with a cantrip that you can cast, I don't expect to have problems finding black sources. You don't even need that many initial black sources. Since your rituals are black, you can get away with only having one black IMS - if they counter it, then they've traded one-for-one, and that's usually fine. But honestly most often you can have two between Lotus Petals and just playing more lands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sawatarix
Plus we don't want to waste our cantrips to search for black duals.
I already dislike games where i have island+tropical island with a hand full of black stuff.
That seems like a personal block. I'm more than happy to cantrip for more lands in many matchups. Just cantripping to hit land drops enables threshold and sets up cantrip Past in Flames lines, so it's definitely not doing nothing.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Togores
Ross merriam leaved Elves to jump into a second place of last scg. Sad kid ape killed him in the finals.
Great result anyway.
His play was pleasant surprise for me (he held is cards too close to evaluate those oddly timed Brainstorms), I'm kind of glad for us he did not win - preserving the RUG good on ANT myth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phazonmutant
Mighty kind of you to notice! :laugh:
I was totally onboard with your reasoning a month ago. I've played Massacre in a couple large events now though and I really don't think Massacre is necessary against UW/x decks. Chain of Vapor is fine because they don't really have that many hate permanents, Meddling Mage is usually able to be played through (no matter what they name), and they don't always draw it. It's also not great against Maverick, which is by far the hardest of the hate bear matchups. In that matchup, the actual trump is to cantrip into Dread of Night and then tutor for another. That basically hard-locks them, and it's trivial to win from there, no matter how many resources you expend.
That seems like a personal block. I'm more than happy to cantrip for more lands in many matchups. Just cantripping to hit land drops enables threshold and sets up cantrip Past in Flames lines, so it's definitely not doing nothing.
Saw you R4 online so I figred out top8 ANT is likely you, congrats
MM + CoV - Pyroblast,
DoN - I often found it embarassing vs Maverick, you have to land both fast to not get one blown by Quasali Pridemage and you're spending your turns fighting on totaly different front instead on winning while Kotr, ScOoze and DRS are killing you, and when you need to draw bussiness you draw those DoN - that was my impression playing DoN several times, on the other hand there is no easy solution, Maverick is hard
Islands - I find 2 Island as a sign of bad deckbuilding, Island+Trop is acceptable compromise but I can't imagine playing 2 Trops, beyond opening hand I kind of want my Tropical to be a Bayou but to not dare to play 3 B lands unless in Miracles paradise
EDIT
reading through the SCG Day 2 list fast and roughly ~4/19 UR played a B splash, starting around 40th place which is good
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sloshthedark
PIF - actually interesting situation on SCG stream - R15G1 Briksza - Merriam, Briksza misplays with Agent... Merriam understands well his situation and Duresses turn earlier in hope of going off next turn drawing a mana, gets rewarded with DR and promptly goes for PIF, also good, but DR -> IT -> ToA is a food for thought, he does that too quickly for my liking, my instinct play would be IT-> LED (U) ... I need to reconstruct the situation to find what's better after his list gets published?
goldfished the situation ( 28: 14:30 ) and both lines look about equal, it was so close I did that second time (20 times both)
IT-> ToA = GP-> land/ritual, ponder into ritual, GP into ritual - 32/40
IT -> LED (UUUB, 2 lands untapped) = Preordain, Preordain, Ponder, GP, GP, Brainstorm 33/40
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Hi all! I'm fairly new to the deck but have done a lot of reading here and various linked articles (Karsten, Kai), and I've been running this list recently on MTGO:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Badlands
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Preordain
1x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Extirpate
2x Flusterstorm
2x Pyroclasm
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Xantid Swarm
I'm loving the deck so far, still working on tweaking SB for the MTGO meta and getting a solid gameplan for SB'ing in general (Karsten's article is an amazing resource). My question is this: Ad Nauseam often feels like our worst engine and I often find myself wanting to cut it against UR Delver (very popular on MTGO). Is a second PiF in this spot too redundant?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheHeff
Hi all! I'm fairly new to the deck but have done a lot of reading here and various linked articles (Karsten, Kai), and I've been running this list recently on MTGO:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Tropical Island
1x Badlands
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Preordain
1x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
4x Infernal Tutor
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Past in Flames
1x Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Extirpate
2x Flusterstorm
2x Pyroclasm
1x Tendrils of Agony
3x Xantid Swarm
I'm loving the deck so far, still working on tweaking SB for the MTGO meta and getting a solid gameplan for SB'ing in general (Karsten's article is an amazing resource). My question is this: Ad Nauseam often feels like our worst engine and I often find myself wanting to cut it against UR Delver (very popular on MTGO). Is a second PiF in this spot too redundant?
If you're not running AN then 2x Past in Flames is definitely a viable strategy. Going off with tutor + rituals + LED with a PiF in hand will often allow you to power straight through one hard counter.
It weakens your game one versus other combo decks, and I wouldn't cut the AN without adding a main deck Empty... But that's just me.
Edit: I'd always have the AN somewhere in the 75, so if not in the main then in the sideboard.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
I ike Nauseam main deck, helps vs a lot of decks.
Usualy vs Ur I just go g1 the pif route and post board I side out the nauseam and side in a second tendrills.
Its quite easy to tendrills them or doublé tendrills them after some kind of cantrips and counterwars.
That my list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15070&iddeck=112035
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
How many permament hate do you side against Patriot, Deathblade and Jeskai blade? I do it this way: (My sideboard is 3 decay, 3 xantid, 2 tops, 1 disfigure, 1 chain, 1 massacre, 1 pyroclasm, 1 krosan 1 empty the warrens, 1 flusterstorm)
PATRIOT: (3)
+1 Massacre +1 Disfigure +1 Abrupt decay
-1 preordain -1 cabal ritual -1 X (probably a second preordain, maybe should be a grim tutor but i like it to look for massacre, and patriot isn't as fast as canadian so it's ok as a tutor)
I think 3 cards at needed because they usually have 3 or 4 meddling mages. In my case, i prefer decay over pyroclasm or chain because it kills and can't be countered.
DEATHBLADE AND JESKAI BLADE: (2)
+1 Massacre +1 Pyroclasm +2 SDT
-2 preordain -1 Cabal ritual -1 Lotus petal
They don't play soft counters (2-3 pierces only) so i think pyroclasm is better than decay or disfigure here. I don't know if I should play a third card to beat permanents, probably one Decay.
I think this is an interesting point to discuss, i'd like to know your opinions and how do you sideboard against these 3 pairings.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Against patriot with wasteland i side in the 2 massacres a second tendrills and 2 carpets.
For nauseam, 2 petals 1 sensei 1 preordain.
Against bbd patriot. i side in 1 tendrills 3 decay for preordain 1 sensei 2 petals (I havent tested this matchup yet (havent only played vs delver patriot all time))
Against deathblade 2 massacre for preordain and may be a petal or a sensei (im not sure)
Also depends a lot on the deathblade. If they have more or less counters. More or less wastelands. More or less discard. More or less permanent hate. Its an easy mathup if they didnt get drs 1st turn. But is dificult to side right because the deck has too many options.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Slosh: Do you remember the games in which my Brainstorm timing was suspect? I'd likely be able to remember some part of the game state and offer my own insight.
As for game 1 against Rudy, I wanted to IT for ToA right away because the cantrips would turn off the IT. If I missed off both the 1st Probe and Ponder then my plan was actually to cast Brainstorm since I can still find an LED off of that to win by stashing the ToA on top and sacrificing LED with the 2nd Probe on the stack. I can also find land and any Ritual among the Probe, random draw from Ponder, and 3 cards from Brainstorm to complete the combo. Without a Brainstorm in the graveyard then I prefer cantripping before the IT because it leaves LED as a live draw but with a Brainstorm still there I'd rather make sure my IT works if I brick on the first Probe.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
For what matchups is the Empty the Warrens sided in?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
For those of you who have tried City of Solitude, Defense Grid, and Xantid Swarm, do the cards serve the same function across different matchups?
City of Solitude is clearly much better against Miracles and probably all sorts of midrange Stoneblade decks, but I'm wondering if you'd bring in City of Solitude or Defense Grid against combo decks like Reanimator or Show and Tell where Xantid Swarm also shines. Do you also like City against URx Delver decks? I'm pretty happy with just the discard suite and a couple SB Chain of Vapors to hedge against permanent-based grave hate (nothing like Xantid Swarm or Carpet of Flowers).
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lordofthepit
For those of you who have tried City of Solitude, Defense Grid, and Xantid Swarm, do the cards serve the same function across different matchups?
City of Solitude is clearly much better against Miracles and probably all sorts of midrange Stoneblade decks, but I'm wondering if you'd bring in City of Solitude or Defense Grid against combo decks like Reanimator or Show and Tell where Xantid Swarm also shines. Do you also like City against URx Delver decks? I'm pretty happy with just the discard suite and a couple SB Chain of Vapors to hedge against permanent-based grave hate (nothing like Xantid Swarm or Carpet of Flowers).
No, I play 3x City and 2xSwarm and I strictly differentiate between them in certain MUs. (Plus, I don't like Grid as much as Kai.)
City of Solitude also is only good against slowish decks without clock or manadenial plan. Swarm costs only one mana and that makes him in my mind indispensable as a possibility to
fight Reanimator or especially Show and Tell based decks.
Conclusively, I never board City against Delver and preferr Swarm against combo stuff. CC1 disruption is mightier against them = Duress effects.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lordofthepit
For those of you who have tried City of Solitude, Defense Grid, and Xantid Swarm, do the cards serve the same function across different matchups?
City of Solitude is clearly much better against Miracles and probably all sorts of midrange Stoneblade decks, but I'm wondering if you'd bring in City of Solitude or Defense Grid against combo decks like Reanimator or Show and Tell where Xantid Swarm also shines. Do you also like City against URx Delver decks? I'm pretty happy with just the discard suite and a couple SB Chain of Vapors to hedge against permanent-based grave hate (nothing like Xantid Swarm or Carpet of Flowers).
It's stupid to board Grid against Reanimator. Not only because it blocks your defensive Brainstorms against their Thoughtseizes, but also because they run Sol lands to cast their FoWs through the Grid, which is backbreaking if Griselbrand is already on the table, which means that your combo-window is limited to the turn after they tapped out to get the Demon into play.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Cabal Therapy and Lemnear are totally right here, can't add more.
Xantid Swarm is for fast combodecks with counterbackup.
Defense Grid is against Delverdecks and Midrange decks.
City of Solitude is against slow deck with a ton of counterbackup.
I prefer Defense Grid because there are a lot more delverdecks around than slow controldecks like landstill and miracle decks.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
I never like defense grid.
We do not have sol land and it is hard to play around soft counters...I don't see why not just play discard.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
I agree with GoblinZ, i've never tested it in ANT and maybe the results are surprising, but it can get countered by all the soft and hard counters (with the exception of flusterstorm). You must have 4 lands into play to play it around pierce and daze, what is a bit difficult due to wasteland and stifle. Also, if you've got 4 lands it's possible that they can play around grid leaving 3+ lands untapped:(
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Surfinbird
I agree with GoblinZ, i've never tested it in ANT and maybe the results are surprising, but it can get countered by all the soft and hard counters (with the exception of flusterstorm). You must have 4 lands into play to play it around pierce and daze, what is a bit difficult due to wasteland and stifle. Also, if you've got 4 lands it's possible that they can play around grid leaving 3+ lands untapped:(
Having Defense Grid as your only protection is the most miserable thing in the world past turn 2. Further, as we play alternate disruption that requires no mana commitment from our opponent, Defense Grid and Duress on the combo turn isn't even all that likely to beat your opponent.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Guys, don't get me wrong.I'm not telling here that Defense Grid is a totally awesome card and you should play it because i do.
Call it rather an experiment, such as Young Pyromancer during Bazaar of Moxen during May 2014.
Ant has such a well-adjusted maindeck with all tools we need to go off though defense that we actually just need a few slots in the sideboard to concentrate on decks with weird angles of attack such as permanents.
In my opinion we don't even NEED more than 7-8 cards in our sideboard and everyone knows that boarding more than 3-4 cards could bite us as the deck gets slower and clunkier.
Remember back in July on the 'Prague Eternal I' main event last year when i fought through 8 Delver decks with no additional discard/defense grids/city of solitude in my sideboard.
Only lost 1 round of them while defeating the other 7.
What i try to say is that additional discard/protection is not absolutely essential in our deck so we get some sideboard slots to test some weird stuff from Young Pyromancer, Extirpate or Vendillion CLique or whatever comes in your mind.
So is Defense Grid, just a fancy and goodlooking card (if it's foil)
:tongue:
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Togores
I ike Nauseam main deck, helps vs a lot of decks.
Usualy vs Ur I just go g1 the pif route and post board I side out the nauseam and side in a second tendrills.
Its quite easy to tendrills them or doublé tendrills them after some kind of cantrips and counterwars.
That my list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15070&iddeck=112035
I find this quite amusing. I have, with some assistance from CK, tweaked this deck for almost a year now. Only to find, with my changes this week, that our md is identical -1 Duress, +1 Therapy and that our sb have 13/15 similar cards. I guess great minds think alike. My next legacy tournament is 1st of February, 4 swiss + top 4, I will post a report.
Edit; same as link in my sig, but changed manabase to support g instead of r and took out 1 AD and 1 XS for 2 COF in sb.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rokkastut
I find this quite amusing. I have, with some assistance from CK, tweaked this deck for almost a year now. Only to find, with my changes this week, that our md is identical -1 Duress, +1 Therapy and that our sb have 13/15 similar cards. I guess great minds think alike. My next legacy tournament is 1st of February, 4 swiss + top 4, I will post a report.
Edit; same as link in my sig, but changed manabase to support g instead of r and took out 1 AD and 1 XS for 2 COF in sb.
I have been playing this same list more or less 9 months. Tested other options amd they always feelt worser. Sb also uses to include 2 grips.
What is cof?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
CoF is Carpet of Flowers, I imagine
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
grmpytopdecker
CoF is Carpet of Flowers, I imagine
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Correct. I usually use full names and proper grammar, but sometimes very late, and on my phone, I deviate from this rule. Sorry.
I only boarded in 4 Abrupt Decay against Miracles, and Carpet of Flowers is also good against them. So 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Xantid Swarm, 2 Carpet of Flowers and sometimes 1 Entreat the Angels against Miracles.
What other matchups do you feel Carpet of Flowers really shines?
Have a nice weekend!
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
I have been trying for a couple of weeks a singleton Noxious Revival in my list, that's quite a stock list, in place of 1 preordain (so 1 grim 1 sensei main). I find it really strong, against discard or after ad nauseam, expecially when you pif with 0 mana left you can recycle led with GP. Aside corner cases it seems quite powerful. Has anybody of you tried it?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
What....the hell?! ;D
That's a troll post, isn't it?
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
I don't know why this should sound as a troll post. It has pretty useful application considering free cantrips and sensei for example. I have also just found some lists on tc decks that used it in a storm shell, and aside been innovating it covers so many scenarios. Pls explain why this is soooooo bad, I have played a lot of games with it as singleton on MODO and you can look at me like Obama meme saying "not bad".
Really, pls explain.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaman
I don't know why this should sound as a troll post. It has pretty useful application considering free cantrips and sensei for example. I have also just found some lists on tc decks that used it in a storm shell, and aside been innovating it covers so many scenarios. Pls explain why this is soooooo bad, I have played a lot of games with it as singleton on MODO and you can look at me like Obama meme saying "not bad".
Really, pls explain.
Because in the best case scenario you pay 4 life and two cards for a Regrowth. That's .... not impressive
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sawatarix
What....the hell?! ;D
That's a troll post, isn't it?
I also have it in my Storm binder, the card has some future potential, It's good to be reminded of it's existence, I haven't found useful application yet (not that I looked for much, but future printing or total reinvention of deck/different deck might like it) but if it works for someone, Shaman got my attention, from my point of view it's rather weak on it's own and can't really imagine which situations I'd like systematicaly to play it or what for, above all it's a card disadvantage which I really hate in Ant, imo even mystical tutor wont cut it as a 4of in current state of things
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EDIT
obscure list for your amusement http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/259164#online, 5C = no PH33R
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
My testing so far has revealed many scenarios it is actually useful in. The best is not a 4 lives regrowth!
Some of them from the top of my memory... most of them corner cases as seen by their own but quite frequent if you look at all of them:
- answer to vendillion when ritualing into infernal;
- answer to discard on key spell;
- "upkeep" regrowth when topdeck mode on;
- new land when mana screwed;
- resolved past in flames, no mana available (quite often it happens): led on top then gitaxian into it
- resolved nauseam, forced to look for IT or LED: you may stop earlier revealing cards, so 2 or 4 lives is a good replacement instead of keep on revealing into possible death. If you reveal noxious with AN it gives many more options, you'll see.
- answer to surgical or rip or DRS on key resources when assembling pif combo
- sinergic with top...
- makes counterbalance fizzle if not paired with top;
- slow down opponents draw (land on top?);
- recycle discard when needed...
It is ok looking at it as a "Mystical tutor-like" card. Many times weaker, many times stronger.
I agree more than a singleton is poor.
You cannot see it as a 4 lives regrowth because it is instant and you don't need mana sources: just these two things make all the difference.
Anyway I am not advocating everybody should run this. I simply ask for opinions to share thoughts and give hints to who likes innovating (that's the reason why I read this forum).
EDIT: I usually side it out in many MU, it shines maindeck in my opinion. Added comments.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Today another sad 3-3 at my legacy event. Due to the rise of reanimator I changed both carpets of flowers for extirpates, im not sure if they are better than surgical, but was neat to have them.
Im also thinkin of cutting a sensei for a preordain beacuse its faster. But i dont like to waste a sb slot for it u.u.
R1 uwbg drs tnn geist noble deck 2-1
He mull to 5. And starts with usea drs. I have a 0 mana floating nauseam stop on 6 and his wasteland plus drs plus no ims plus fow on my ritual (he drew the blue card) wins him the game.
G2 i have another t1 nauseam now with mana. And gg
G3 he missplays all time removing in his turn land with drs instead of leavingg up. And pif comes. And gg.
R2 loose to ur standstill 1-2
G1 win
G2 nullrod plus counters
G3 standstill plus presure plus counters
R3 win ur 2-0
G1 he disnt force my ritual so i duress and go off
G2 he didnt therapy my tutor qith falshback when i was just missing one mana.
R4 mud 1-2
G1 he starts slow i duress his chalice
G2 2 chalice 2 trinisphere plus lodestone and me on one land and a t2 hand didnt get there.
G3 chalice on 1 for my t2 hand thats need a dr wins.
R4 reanimator 2-1
G1 he griselbrands. Draws. Atacks goes to 11. I storm and infernal he decides not to draw cards and dies.
G2 he mulls to 6 makes a t1 grisel and t2 iona
G3 i discard his entomb and he never gets there.
Lately i have been having not so great results, chalice, mud and reanimator are beeing harsh decks to play vs. Will neeed to improve in some way. Also ppl sidding much more cards against combo is not nice. Today a guy was playing in his esper blade. Sb notion and thalias.
Tomorrow if I wake up I will play tes. Lets see if I miss the basics like usualy (love to not been wasteland dead).
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Definetely 2 sensei's divining top maindeck are not the best configuration in very fast metagames: for the same reasons (heavy presence of reanimators in MTGO metagame) I switched back to only one, having the second one become first one preordain then noxious revival. I am also debating Grim Tutor slot, but I guess it is a necessary evil.
I consider surgical superior to extirpate in many different situations, and superior as a specif answer for other MU (storm mirror and dredge mainly).
About noxious: yesterday during the daily I am paired against dredge. My hand is petal land duress gitaxian ritual nauseam noxious. Land + duress tells me the path is clear but there's an high chance things gat nasty because of double leds and faithless looting and dredgers...so I go petal ritual noxious targeting ritual gp ritual nauseam from 16. Another sweet corner case, I would say. In another match I have grim in my hand along with noxious and cabal ritual, with topin play. I need the win but cabal plus grim alone don't get me there... so cabal (threshold) noxoius switch with top cabal again grim tendrils.Again, another corner case. Again, useful.I am sold on it for the moment.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Hi! As I said a week ago, i'm hard-testing in cockatice to prepare the first tournaments of the year. After the matches of this week (the second one) the results are:
FIRST WEEK: 18-8 (69%)
SECOND WEEK: 30-8 (79%)
TOTAL: 48-16 (75%)
STORM TESTING
VS MIRACLES: 6-3
VS TEAM AMERICA
VS UR DELVER 2-0
VS DEATHBLADE: 1-1
VS JESKAI STONEBLADE: 2-0
VS PATRIOT: 0-1
VS ANT: 2-0
VS OMMITELL
VS SNEAK ATTACK 0-1
VS CANADIAN 2-1
VS BRUG TEMPO: 0-1
VS DEATH AND TAXES: 5-1
VS REANIMATOR: 1-0
VS GWB ZENITH: 2-1
VS UW STONEBLADE 2-0
VS BURN: 1-0
VS JUND: 1-0
VS BUG SHARDLESS 1-1
VS MUD
VS ELVES: 3-1
VS PAINTERS: 1-0
VS DREDGE: 2-0
VS JUNK ROCK 2-0
VS GRIXIS DELVER 1-0
VS GRIXIS CONTROL 1-1
VS STIFLENOUGHT: 1-0
VS NIC FIT 1-0
VS LANDS: 1-0
VS BIG RED: 1-0
VS DARK DEPTHS 2-1
VS JESKAI ASCENDANCY 1-1
VS AFFINITY: 1-0
VS SLIVERS: 1-0
VS GOBLIN STOMPY 0-1
As you see, I've played against a long variety of decks, so i can't take conclusions about most of the pairings. I must say that 2 tops, 3 decays, 1 krosan and 1 empty the warrens are working well against miracles, and also 2 decays, 1 massacre, 1 pyroclasm, 1 disfigure and 1 chain of vapor against death and taxes. Remember that i play 2 preordains, 1 grim tutor and 7 discard spells. No tops in the main.
Playing with regularity is so important with this deck, and i've noticed it a lot in the results (I began with a 7-7 the first week). I'll keep working to prepare the first catalan league of legacy of the year (Saturday 24, 80-100 players). After being the 4th of the league in 2014, I'll storm for the victory this year!
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
^you only test g1?
If so its easy to get a really hight percentage. But if you dont play with side I think the g2-3 are the dificult ones. Decks loose most of they bad cards and gain thinks like hatebears. Thorns, discard and so on.
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Re: [Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Togores
^you only test g1?
If so its easy to get a really hight percentage. But if you dont play with side I think the g2-3 are the dificult ones. Decks loose most of they bad cards and gain thinks like hatebears. Thorns, discard and so on.
No, no! I obviously play complete rounds, otherwise testing wouldn't make any sense :laugh: the results are counting the rounds won/lost