[Deck] Death and Taxes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

@chags
how is GsZ working for you ?

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GsZ has been amazing ever since I fit it in. Originally the deck had 4 mother of runes, 4 pridemage, 4 mangara and 3 gaddock teeg. I cut 2 teeg and 1 mangara for the GsZ and then cut a mother of runes and a pridemage for eternal witness and noble hierarch. The ability to go get dryad arbor on turn 1 to increase land count, grab hierarch for mana or exalted, tutor your pridemages at the exact time you need them, grab teeg without wasting 3 slots on him, or even just go get a goyf when you need a bigger creature is awesome. As long as I am playing GW I'll have GsZ as a 3 of in the deck, if I were to switch to 3 colors the GsZ would probably come out but for now it adds a lot of power to the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chags

GsZ has been amazing ever since I fit it in. Originally the deck had 4 mother of runes, 4 pridemage, 4 mangara and 3 gaddock teeg. I cut 2 teeg and 1 mangara for the GsZ and then cut a mother of runes and a pridemage for eternal witness and noble hierarch. The ability to go get dryad arbor on turn 1 to increase land count, grab hierarch for mana or exalted, tutor your pridemages at the exact time you need them, grab teeg without wasting 3 slots on him, or even just go get a goyf when you need a bigger creature is awesome. As long as I am playing GW I'll have GsZ as a 3 of in the deck, if I were to switch to 3 colors the GsZ would probably come out but for now it adds a lot of power to the deck.

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Ic thanks for the inpunts

Still talking about other options of removal, did someone test Shining Shoal?
I believe that it may be a good option if used correctly. As I see it, the good things are that it may not be card-disadvantage and gives you tempo (by not making you tap your lands early game), and the bad thing is that you need a blocker or a CMC-3 card in hand generally for it to be effective.

Opinions?

Edit: I missed that it hardly kills utility creatures such as Welder and Confidant in time...

Edit 2: OK, I've already dismissed it... I just noticed that if I try to redirect damage from a blocker I may eat removal in response and be 3-for-1'ed.

I think I have a general idea, but what do you guys consider to be good and bad matchups for this deck? This is just my current guess, as I have only been able to test a few so far:

Anything Counterbalance based is very strong
Other blue based control (Standstill, Bant) are slightly positive.
Tribal, Zoo, Rock are 50/50
Combo is very poor

I haven't had a chance to test against Rock or non-Counterbalance control yet though, so those are just logical estimates. What have you guys seen as far as actual results go, assuming equal skill level? I also know that I'm missing a large number of decks, feel free to input any other matchups that you feel are important to point out for one reason or another.

actually since i play both rock/junk and D&T i know the week point of D&T against Rock is Deed.... if we can't do anything about a resolved deed and in time we lose a lot of board-position and due to that often even the game.... but since phyrexian revoker was put into the deck even that matchup has become a lot easier because deed does not sweep anymore (neither does EE) and their knight will not grow insanely.... and as long they have no way to remove an active mother we are completely fine plus they cannot block any of our flying creatures^^

if zoo is around 50/50 depends on your build.... i would say if you play Green & Taxes that should be allright if not slightly favored for G&T if its the mono W build its slightly favored for the zoo player

and for tribal... they should not be a problem, the swords are Bombs here

combo is indeed very poor but not unwinnable, but you need a lot of sideboard-slots to make it winnable, which makes your post-board matchups for other archetypes a bit weaker

but maindeck revokers + maybe hatebears (leonin arbiter), plus sideboard silence and canonists or E-Tutor-Toolbox helps a lot... if combo does not get a god-hand and finishes you on your first turn


lately i have been thinking of the "rising" of affinity decks, and i have some problems against them, how do you feel about affinity?

I want to say Aura of Silence is a bomb against Affinity, and it is. However, turn 3 is probably a turn too late. I will keep investigating though for something better.

@affinity
best solution i've found out is serenty. but DT will have an easier MU against affinity bec phyrexian revokers will stop most of affinity's abilities.

@affinity, I'll go with null rod only because of the fact that it hits other decks like combo (no more mana artifacts) and the kuldotha-metalworker decks that's been rising in popularity...

Hello,
Just wondering.., generally DT or GT has a light removal suite.., how do you deal with enemy revokers.., especially against a zoo that runs revokers main deck. Revoker naming vial, noble, equips, managara, mother of runes, etc. would be very troublesome

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

Hello,
Just wondering.., generally DT or GT has a light removal suite.., how do you deal with enemy revokers.., especially against a zoo that runs revokers main deck. Revoker naming vial, noble, equips, managara, mother of runes, etc. would be very troublesome

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I don't think Revokers are a problem for us. It is true that we have plenty of targets for it, but we also have plenty of ways of dealing with them permanently with StP, Mangara and equipment. You can also Flickerwisp the Revoker to equip a Sword (of course this is not good with Jitte).
They must have at least two Revokers to really bother me, and in this case I'm fine beating them with Avengers, as their clock should be slower than ours.

I use version Green and Tax and I liked use Scryb Ranger because a can use relicary and magara 2 times, and my creatures receve a "flash vigilance" in attack´s fase opponent.

What kind of sideboards do you guys typically run for the mono-white version? I feel that 4 Silence is probably necessary for combo, but I'm not really sure how to build the rest. Here are some of the questions I've been tossing around:
I've considered going for an Enlightened Tutor package, with 3/4 of them and then several 1 of's, but I'm not sure that there are enough targets that help with the poor matchups.
I run Revokers main so I won't need to make space for them, so probably some Canonists in the sb? Or are they overkill?
Is Jotun Grunt fast enough to help with graveyard strategies, or is more than that needed?
What kind of things come in for tribal/zoo? Additional creature kill, life gain, CoP: Red, Kor Firewalker?
There just seems to be so many options for putting it together that I'm not even sure where to start lol.

My current side board for my mono white looks like this:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wing Shards
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

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Originally Posted by Fry

My current side board for my mono white looks like this:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wing Shards
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

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revoker is not part of your mainboard ?, in a mono DT revoker is a good part in the main for me

It used to be, but I also run leonin arbiter in the main, and I would rather have the arbiter main

Are just the leylines and revokers enough to make combo fair?

I also have Canonists in the SB as well for the tutor toolbox.


Anyways, my conclusions about Arbiter: It's still bad. I just wish there was something else to run in its place.

I also have Canonists in the SB as well for the tutor toolbox.


Anyways, my conclusions about Arbiter: It's still bad. I just wish there was something else to run in its place.

I'll probably cut them out to make room for a few more MD Revokers as well as a third MD Jötun Grunt. Newer idea, let's hope it still works.

10 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Jötun Grunt
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Via
1 Umezawa's Jittel
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Cataclysm
SB: 3 Wing Shards
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

I took a monoW list to a 73-people tournament last weekend to a 4-3 result. Even though the result is kinda bad, I'm not that disappointed because it's my first experience with the deck IRL.

I've faced Merfolk (2-0), Bu Planeswalker Control (2-0), Aggro Elves w/ NO (0-2), Merfolk (2-0), Combo Elves w/ NO and Vengevines (0-2), Burn (0-2) and Uwr Countertop (2-0).
In the matches against Elves I was pushed to a defensive position in the beginning of both games, and when I had the control he played Natural Order. Had I resolved a Cataclysm, the result would probably have been different. I'll probably change something in my sideboard to handle Progenitus better (maybe Wing Shards in the place of Condemn, or even Retribution of the Meek, I dunno).
Both games against burn were close. Game one I was at one life with lethal damage in the board and a StP in hand that could give me three life from a Flickerwisp, but he had the Fireblast. Game 2 I was at 10 life, he had Furnace of Rath and a suspended Rift Bolt. I vialed in a Flickerwisp at end of my turn targeting the Furnace, but he Fireblasted me in response. He would have died from the equipped Flickerwisp attack next turn, thanks to the furnace.
The games I won had nothing so special. Equipment is great against merfolk, Revoker is great against planeswalkers, Vials and Revokers are great against Countertop. One of the games against Merfolk deserves a note: he conceded when I was at 1 life, and he was at 30 (due to StP and Condemns), after locked by Mangara+Karakas+Vial :).

My list:


9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

Sideboard:
3 Cataclysm
3 Condemn
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Aura of Silence


I like the maindeck the way it is, but the sideboard maybe will change. It is very hard to prepare to a wide open field, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lebarion

I took a monoW list to a 73-people tournament last weekend to a 4-3 result. Even though the result is kinda bad, I'm not that disappointed because it's my first experience with the deck IRL.

I've faced Merfolk (2-0), Bu Planeswalker Control (2-0), Aggro Elves w/ NO (0-2), Merfolk (2-0), Combo Elves w/ NO and Vengevines (0-2), Burn (0-2) and Uwr Countertop (2-0).
In the matches against Elves I was pushed to a defensive position in the beginning of both games, and when I had the control he played Natural Order. Had I resolved a Cataclysm, the result would probably have been different. I'll probably change something in my sideboard to handle Progenitus better (maybe Wing Shards in the place of Condemn, or even Retribution of the Meek, I dunno).
Both games against burn were close. Game one I was at one life with lethal damage in the board and a StP in hand that could give me three life from a Flickerwisp, but he had the Fireblast. Game 2 I was at 10 life, he had Furnace of Rath and a suspended Rift Bolt. I vialed in a Flickerwisp at end of my turn targeting the Furnace, but he Fireblasted me in response. He would have died from the equipped Flickerwisp attack next turn, thanks to the furnace.
The games I won had nothing so special. Equipment is great against merfolk, Revoker is great against planeswalkers, Vials and Revokers are great against Countertop. One of the games against Merfolk deserves a note: he conceded when I was at 1 life, and he was at 30 (due to StP and Condemns), after locked by Mangara+Karakas+Vial :).

My list:


9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

Sideboard:
3 Cataclysm
3 Condemn
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Aura of Silence


I like the maindeck the way it is, but the sideboard maybe will change. It is very hard to prepare to a wide open field, though.

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Try this if it might help
For the main
-1 rishadan port +1 flagstone
-2 oring +2 cataclysm
-1 revoker
-2 jotun grunt
+3 mirran crusader
-1 flickerwisp
-1 stoneforge
+2 wall of omens

For SB
4 aethersworn canonist
2 oring
1 e.tutor
1 pte / tariff
3 burrenton forgetender
2 tormods crypt
1 nihil spellbomb
1 thorn of amethyst

wall of omens just seems bad in this deck, it just sits there and doesn't do anything helpfuil, sure you get one card out of it, but after that it does nothing for you at all

I guess this thread is broken, but just in case it is not, have you seen the White Weenie that top8'ed in SCG LA?

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-[Deck]-Death-and-Taxes/page91

It has very few similarities with D+T (well, both are mono white ;) ), but maybe incorporating Squadron Hawk isn't a bad idea. I've thought about it before and dismissed, but what do you guys think about it?

That was me who piloted white weenie, and i got 15th not top 8. That being said, Squadron Hawk is amazing.

EDIT: I wrote a tournament report for anyone who's interested:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...h-White-Weenie

I tried the Hawk out and was not impressed. Maybe I just got thrown against some terrible matchups for it, but there weren't really any cases that I was too happy to see it. I liked it against Goblins, giving me chump blockers long enough to get Sword of Fire and Ice online, but in most matchups it was a 1/1 flyer. I got 2-for-1'ed several times with Fire/Ice, though it is nice that they can block and kill a Vendilion Clique. Overall I think that they have their uses, but I wasn't too impressed in the end. Against an aggro heavy meta I'd keep them in to block dudes for a couple turns but I don't see much other reason to have them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fry

wall of omens just seems bad in this deck, it just sits there and doesn't do anything helpfuil, sure you get one card out of it, but after that it does nothing for you at all

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well it depends on how you would see it function. as for me i since i have a high amount of 3cc i need the wall of omens to hold off my opponents 0/4 is a solid creature that could block opposing creatures if your opponent wants to go through he/she must use a removal for it. late games i could re use its draw via flickerwisp.

I don't like jotun grunts bec i need an early blocker to hold off aggressive decks. jotuns are nice against tarmo and kotr but needs enough cards in the gy to provide atleast a decent amount of time in the board before it dies to its upkeep.

@squadron hawk
i think is a nice card advantage card but seems abit weak unless your running fauna shaman or cards like Empyrial Armor and Empyrial Plate. non the less the pressure of landing 3 more creatures with evasion after the 1st especially if you run equips could give pressure to your opponent.

At first glance I'm against the idea of adding walls to this deck, as they have very bad synergy with equipment. However, a couple Wall of Omens may not be bad, as they hold aggro, the cantrip effect is very interesting and it gives the cantrip effect to Flickerwisp, too. In theory, they're never a bad topdeck.
The bad thing about cutting the Grunts is that you got weaker against graveyard strategies, at lease pre-side, but I don't know how relevant this is. Loam is not very common nowadays and 2 Grunts aren't enough to hold Vengevines, Dredge or Reanimator.

About Squadron Hawk, I don't think there's anything I want to cut for them. Also, It doesn't seem good until turn 4, when you can play at least on of the Hawks you fetched. Anyone disagrees?

I think Squadron Hawk is terrible. Fetching 3 1/1 flyers isn't really card advantage when they don't really do anything. Sure, it's an evasive body to equip, but that's it. We already have access to bigger bodies that actually do something.

Same argument can be made with adding Wall of Omens. Sure, you draw a card, but you just spent one on a body that can't even attack.

This deck handles aggro decks quite well already, so additions like Wall of Omens and Squadron Hawk are pretty weak.

I don't see hawk being as powerful in a deck like WW or DnT as it is in something like Blade (I'm dropping the Caw, cause it sounds silly to me) where it gives you cards to put back ontop aftera brainstorm/jace activation, gives you a shuffle effect, etc..

Just doesn't seem to be as powerful without the blue to back it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nwong

I think Squadron Hawk is terrible... We already have access to bigger bodies that actually do something.

Same argument can be made with adding Wall of Omens. Sure, you draw a card, but you just spent one on a body that can't even attack.

This deck handles aggro decks quite well already, so additions like Wall of Omens and Squadron Hawk are pretty weak.

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I agree with your statement here, the Death and Taxes deck, not green and taxes or junk and taxes, already has plenty of very good inexpensive guys to play that are better than the wall and hawk in a vacuum. Then the argument goes the same way with the other versions of taxes where there is access to other colors to add other great cheap creatures like goyf or bob. I just can't think of anything I would even consider cutting for the hawks or walls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fry

I agree with your statement here, the Death and Taxes deck, not green and taxes or junk and taxes, already has plenty of very good inexpensive guys to play that are better than the wall and hawk in a vacuum. Then the argument goes the same way with the other versions of taxes where there is access to other colors to add other great cheap creatures like goyf or bob. I just can't think of anything I would even consider cutting for the hawks or walls.

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I already had suspicions, you beating me down in Vestal reinforced my thoughts. 4 creatures is nice, but they're still 1/1's. Getting some muscle is far preferred. From what I've seen, this deck performs best when it tries to be the aggresor instead of sneaking around and filling the hand up with 1/1's. They're nice chump blockers when you're the slower deck, and they are good filler material if you know you're gonna get hit with some Hymns. Otherwise, I vote to play a creature with balls.

I don't know how you guys do it and most of you keeps saying that DT has a good MU against traditional zoo and jotun will be good enough to handle them. In my playtest vs traditional zoo if i don't get to disrupt there lands early its almost game over. Thats why i opted to use the wall over jotun grunts to hold them off until i could setup my board.

What list do you use?

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Originally Posted by nwong

What list do you use?

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Lands [22]
2 flagstones of trokair
3 karakas
3 rishadan port
4 wasteland
10 plains

Creatures [25]
4 mother of runes
2 wall of omens
4 serra avenger
3 stoneforge mystic
3 phyrexian revoker
3 mirran crusader
3 managar of corondor
3 flickerwisp

Spells [13]
4 aether vial
4 stp
1 jitte
1 sofi
1 sols
2 cataclysm

Leonin arbiter helps tons against zoo. If you can get him in turn 2 and then waste a land, it's likely that they'll be stuck on 1 or 2 for quite some time. Surviving the first few turns is typically all you need for zoo, though it is usually easier said than done. I think lavamancer is the biggest concern, but turn 1 nacatl needs to be answered as well.

If that's the list you used to test against traditional zoo, then I'm not surprised zoo is a problem.

Jotun grunts help a lot since it's the only creature that doesn't die to burn. Getting one down buys you a couple of turns, plus it allows you to empty their graveyard so they can't use lavamancer. This is why it's better than Wall of Omens at holding zoo off.

More spot removal would help too. Oust is great against zoo. I don't like PtE, but it works too.

If I were looking to cut something, it'd probably be the crusaders. It's a beast when equipped, but all it does is make the win faster ie. win-more. The correct equip on ANY creature will usually get there without the need for doublestrike.

arbiter will not last long enough in holding off your opponents especially against zoo. unless you land a turn 1 mother that doesn't die.

as for jotun, i used to run jotuns over wall of omens , yes it helps against tarmo and lavamancer but a good zoo player will just wait for your jotun to die on its own which usually dies in 2-3 turns. for me not long enough to help you setup against fast decks. but whats worse about him is that is a dead card early on thats the main problem i had thats why i switched. i feel in order to use jotun efficiently you need to have more spot removals and several fetch lands, i don't like oust... i want a permanent answer i was considering sun lance but never tried it. maybe because it can't deal with pridemage, kotr and mor.

as for mirran sader being a win more card.., as for me his not, his a solid muscle creature against rock type decks his protection and able to hold off enemy goyfs or kotrs is pretty helpful to help you stabilize board position and once an equipment hits the board he suddenly becomes a threat that needs to be dealt with by your opponent if not he will wreak havoc.

i've also tried Epochrasite, his good if you have a vial online but if none his crappy... and oh... zoo decks runs null rods and revokers at times in there SB so more pain for DT...

If the "setup" that you're referring to is getting a stoneforge out, searching for SoLaS and getting it equipped to something, that usually takes 2-3 turns. Cards like Oust/Jotun Grunt will get you there.

As for rock decks, sure, the pro green is nice. Just pointing out that rock decks don't run very many creatures. As long as you can deal with Bob, you're usually fine trading cards with them. Your beaters are evasive and theirs aren't, which makes a huge difference.

erbs, you are not seeing things clearly.

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as for jotun, i used to run jotuns over wall of omens , yes it helps against tarmo and lavamancer but a good zoo player will just wait for your jotun to die on its own which usually dies in 2-3 turns. for me not long enough to help you setup against fast decks. but whats worse about him is that is a dead card early on thats the main problem i had thats why i switched. i feel in order to use jotun efficiently you need to have more spot removals and several fetch lands, i don't like oust... i want a permanent answer i was considering sun lance but never tried it. maybe because it can't deal with pridemage, kotr and mor.

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If you have one card that prevents Zoo from attacking for 2-3 turns, that is a fabulous hoser in this deck. Luckily, it does a lot more than that, but if that was all it did I would advocate playing it for sure.

The wall can not kill anything when it blocks. So the opponent can send his guys in with impunity and just deal up to 3 fewer points of damage on the way for a few turns whereas a creature that prevents the attack in the first place buys much more than that. I think we can agree on these things. Wall gets you a card of course. Well, a Vialed-in Grunt can usually do the same. So you have:

Wall of Omens: often better card advantage, never a threat, does a lesser job of preventing early damage
Jotun Grunt: dies after only a few turns when used early on, no card drawn, bigger problem to early attackers, is an actual serious threat as well as disruption

The basic premise behind the aggro versus control matchup is that aggro desires a fast kill while control has the advantage of inevitability. The problem with Zoo will always be that you die before you stabilize. That is 100% of their gameplan which is why we are control when facing Zoo. Why do I give a crap about drawing an extra card when I have inevitability from the other 56 cards in the deck? What I really need for two mana is something that actually deals with the problem - early damage. A good Zoo player will NOT wait for it to die in many cases, however, because he understands what I just explained. He will attack into it, lose a creature, and deal some extra damage to you. That is fantastic - and is the reason why a Grunt puts them in such a bind. If he hasn't got a Path, he is seriously hindered.

If that explanation is not enough, ask yourself what you asked the rest of us. Why are you having a hard time with this one when others are not?

One more thing: Against Zoo, extra removal is the best tool. Use Oust.

Quick report from yesterday's tournament. 63 people, I did 4-2 into 11th place. My list is the same I've posted some pages back (monoW with 4 Revokers MD), with the SB slightly modified (-3 Condem, +3 Tariff, -1 Absolute Law, -1 Wheel of Sun and Moon, -1 Runed Halo, +3 BFT)

Goblins (2-0) : I open first game with Mother of runes, Stoneforge Mystic finding Jitte, and draw SoFI. Game two I have 2 Burrenton Forge-Tenders from the sideboard, draw Jitte and win from there.

Team America: Game 1, I keep a doubtful hand with 2 Karakas and Aether Vial on the play. He forces the Vial and Wastes the Karakas in his first turn, giving me two turns to draw lands. I draw a plains and a Rishadan, and Jotun holding SoLS finishes him. Game 2, we waste each others' lands, but I have more lands than him. Jotun comes again. After paying his first upkeep, my opponent's had 6 cards in his grave, 2 Undergound Seas and a Phyrexian Revoker naming Vial, while I have the Jotun, an Avenger, a Rishadan Port and another land. I tap one of his lands in his upkeep, he responds by playing braistorm and dazing himself returning the tapped Sea to his hand, then replaying the Sea and casting Tombstalker. I cast StP in the revoker, activate Vial to put Flickerwisp into play removing the Tombstalker, and attck FTW.

CounterThopter (2-1): First game I end him too quickly. He plays a Blood Moon and a Jace TMS only, and as he was desperate to drop Blood Moon to nullify my Karakas, I put him on some kind of Show and Tell. Because of this, I my sideboard plan is completely wrong, and I lost game 2 badly. With the right sideboard, game 3 is a lot easier.

Affinity (0-2): First game he had a ravager, and after that an Etched Champion that gets lots of +1/+1 counters. Second Game, StP and a late Revoker are not enough to fight second Turn Ornithopter with Cranial Plating and Ravager with another Cranial Plating.

Dredge (2-1): Jotun Grunt shines in the first and third game. Game 2 I see no hate piece, get him to 6 life but he comboes me out.

Mono Blue Control (0-2): A very unexpected deck, with 20+ counters, Jace and Shackles. I don't know what he's playing and wait to drop Revokers game 1. He eventually controls the game. Game 2 he Forces my first turn vial, Spell Snares my revoker, get my sick Mother of Runes with Sower of Temptation, and beat me down with a Sower of Temptation while countering my fliers.

Overall a good result, but I still need to learn how to sideboard against some matches. But I'm feeling more and more comfortable with the deck.

Piloting Zoo at my last tournament, I realized that while my approach to the deck was pretty legit, I often tried to act a bit too controllish and that's not really how the deck works.
After getting hold of a playset french Stoneforge Mystics (yeah, I'm a sucker for french cards. deal with it.), I decided it's about time to build something akin to the Green and Taxes lists I've seen floating around these forums.
This is my take of the deck and I'd be happy to get some feedback from the more experienced players concerning both the list and my individual cardchoices.

// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Forest

// Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
2 Mangara of Corondor

// Spells
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 AEther Vial

As for the manabase, I think 6 Fetches are enough. From what I've seen, DnT decks often play the control role against opposing Aggro decks and playing too many fetches kinda contradicts that plan. Thus, I added Razorverge Thickets to help out with color stability, though it makes me a bit more susceptible to Wasteland. Running Temple Gardens is a no-go for me, since this would contradict with what I said about Fetchlands and Aggro.

I have come to love Noble Hierarch. She does so much - she makes Daze a much worse card against you, helps out with equipping and can even get into the red zone if the need to do so arises. And she improves GSZ by a ton.
Mother of Runes is a very annoying card to deal with, she protects equipped dudes and she's a staple of this archetype, from what I know. From the games where I've had to play against her, I can say she's incredibly potent and a worthy inclusion.
Qasali Pridemage as a 4-of because Enchantress is a deck where I play, as is Affinity - and Exalted is pretty good when you have a Goyf-stall or when a huge Terravore shows up.
Only 3 Goyf because he's just not as powerful as he was before - however, he's still one of the most solid creatures in this format and a threat by himself. Plus, Goyf + Equipment = sad opponent.
3 SFM because she's CA and the equipments play a big role in the deck. Having access to one and providing a body for it is huge. However, drawing more than necessary usually isn't the best.
KotR is big, toolboxes and beats face. Nothing more to add here, she's pretty much Tarmogoyf 2.0.
The Terravore is in there as an answer to Knight-stalls and as a lategame-trump.
Mangara is recurring removal and furthers my manadenial-plan. She also deals with Jace at times.

StP shouldn't need an explanation. I chose it over PtE because at times attacking my opponents manabase is the best way to approach a MU and stabilizing it is pretty bad. The lifegain isn't the end of the world.
Oblivion Ring as a 1-of for a possible E Tutor target, should I utilize such a SB. It also answers Jace and Elspeth or that huge KotR on the other side of the table.

Jitte and SoFaI are my weapons of choice when it comes to equipment - Jitte is Jitte and SoFaI gives me relevant protection + removal against tribal decks + card draw.
GSZ adds a punch to the deck for the long games and can tutor up anything from solutions for pesky artifacts/enchantments (Qasali Pridemage), to big dumb dudes (KotR/Goyf/TVore). It also ups my Gaddock Teeg count, should I feel the need to bring them in.
Elspeth as a 1-of pretty much serves the same purpose as Terravore - she's a card that can singlehandedly turn a game around just by showing up. She provides me with bodies for my equipments and she can give my dudes evasion.
Vial was a logical inclusion, as I wanted to utilize Mangara and it gives me the ability to aggressively tutor for Wastelands with my KotRs.

As for the SB, Gaddock Teeg, some GY Hate, Ethersworn Canonist, Krosan Grips, Kitchen Finks, Choke, Enlightened Tutor - everything is possible.


Some of the DnT/GnT players got some input for me?