Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mackan
I get a lot of questions regarding the lack of an actual "win-con" and it's true that Jace, Mentor or Entreat the angels are all better at closing games than snapcaster mage. What some people fail to realize is that on average this version of the deck will not only have more cards but on average also of a higher quality. If we assume an empty board (that the consistency of our deck helped us to), 4 lands on our side and with us with a SDT in play. Our opponent cast a Delver of Secrets with 4 cards in hand and 1 untapped land. For a traditional build of miracles this situation is still fine but just to give you an idea of the differences could play out;
1) "traditional" hand is 1 land, 1 jace, 1 counterspell. You counterspell Delver, play your fifth land to avoid Daze and cast Jace into Force of will. Your top 3 are land, Force of will and Jace. So you decide to just try to cast Jace again next turn.
2) "predictable" hand is snapcaster mage, spell snare, jace. You cast eot snapcaster mage for brainstorm and look at the top3 which is now predict, spell snare and. Your hand is Jace, counterspell and swords to plowshares.
Instead of going for Jace you take another turn "off" by neutralizing the board and cast Swords on the Delver. Opponent cast a Gurmag Angler next turn and you cast Predict in response. Here's the sweet part about the deck. Either your opponent answers Predict and let you cast Jace or you cast Predict to draw into an answer to their answer to Jace. Even though you run only 20 lands you have the mana advantage because you force interaction, by casting your threaths, during their turn. What's even better, just take another turn not casting jace and set up a snapcaster+predict to draw into even more answers. Once Jace or cb/top enters the battlefield you will have more answers in hand than they have cards. At which point Snapcaster is just a free 2 mana cycler. It'll take a few turns to end the game but by each turn Snapcaster mage is attacking your hand size increases and your opponent will sink in his chair.
It's very hard to compare two cards in magic but comparing two gameplans is even harder. With the above example I hope to bring some light to the subject. I am not saying this version is strictly better and I know there are other faults but for now I will continue to develop this as it fits my playstyle more than medium-risk/high-payoff cards. If you want to be harsh you can say I prefer low-risk/minimal-payoff because I think that this minimal advantages are often better than medium risk, no matter what the payoff is. Atleast this is true for miracles which has such an insane suite of answers.
The main problem I see with your list, isn't the lack of win conditions. Your list is stronger in a "set" metagame - You meet the typical legacy decks, which likely means it's stronger on MODO than at a GP.
What I see as a main problem is that your list is actually worse against the overall bad matchups Miracles can face, and sometimes will face - MUD, Sneak&Show. You are also severely weaker against Death and Taxes, which is also pretty common. In general, non-blue decks where it isn't as much about card density but about card quality.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Quasim0ff
The main problem I see with your list, isn't the lack of win conditions. Your list is stronger in a "set" metagame - You meet the typical legacy decks, which likely means it's stronger on MODO than at a GP.
What I see as a main problem is that your list is actually worse against the overall bad matchups Miracles can face, and sometimes will face - MUD, Sneak&Show. You are also severely weaker against Death and Taxes, which is also pretty common. In general, non-blue decks where it isn't as much about card density but about card quality.
This is very true. The bad matchups gets even worse without Entreat the Angels or Mentor. This is why tuning the sideboard is so important.
For now I have been happy with Blood moon as a way to adress decks with Chalice of the void including aggroloam, mud, tezzerator aswell as 12post.
Sneak and show is allways a problem because of the extremly high power (at the cost of consistency) they might have. Sometimes the just brute force you and there's nothing you can do. Pithing needle for Sneak attack or another priest are cards to consider if there's a lot of Sneak.
DnT is allready favored and I don't think the changes to the deck really makes any big difference. Time is an issue but the SFM package compensates for that... Batterskull paired with an endless stream of swords to plowshares is good enough.
What I currently miss is a catch-all like Council's Judgment or Engineered Explosives but neither is optimal due to the casting cost of CJ or not beeing a snapcaster target like EE. For now I side in 1 or 2 wear/tear in the dark to deal with sylvan library or null rod. But I am not super happy with this.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Spell snare is not at best in miracle, even with 4 snapcaster. It's mainly there for CB, Chalice, Library, (and Snap, Counterspell in the mirror). And only before CB. After, CB, you'd better have a Counterspell or a reb to answer out of Curve threats. Reb does a better job imo because, as well as answering these cards in the mirror, you have an out to Jace, and answers to Tnn, Show and tell. Against chalice I ve already explained why it was bad.
It's good vs Library since it is sometimes played with daze.
Against creatures, you already have 7-8 removals ; against storm, I personally find it overkill (with 3 flusterstorm sb) ; against Tourach, you already have Predict to compensate the CA loss.
In this deck, the only time you can gain tempo out of snare is on the draw T1, which, in my opinion, isn't really needed. I would play snare in grixis reactive lists since you also have tarmogoyf to deal with.
And as already said, the deck will be better vs delver decks but will have hard time vs unanswered early vial and cavern (d1t, goblins, merfolk), Cloudpost, Aggroloam, Jund, etc.. It's like improving already good MUs, Miracle and abandoning bad ones G1. You can't always bet on blood moon G2 vs fair decks ; any decent player will be prepared. And Blood moon is a 3 mana sorcery as well that can sometimes do nothing. Without Judgment, I strongly believe that you need more non Jace Threats G1.
Entreat sb is weird :).
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JosephK
Spell snare is not at best in miracle, even with 4 snapcaster. It's mainly there for CB, Chalice, Library, (and Snap, Counterspell in the mirror). And only before CB. After, CB, you'd better have a Counterspell or a reb to answer out of Curve threats. Reb does a better job imo because, as well as answering these cards in the mirror, you have an out to Jace, and answers to Tnn, Show and tell. Against chalice I ve already explained why it was bad.
It's good vs Library since it is sometimes played with daze.
Against creatures, you already have 7-8 removals ; against storm, I personally find it overkill (with 3 flusterstorm sb) ; against Tourach, you already have Predict to compensate the CA loss.
In this deck, the only time you can gain tempo out of snare is on the draw T1, which, in my opinion, isn't really needed. I would play snare in grixis reactive lists since you also have tarmogoyf to deal with.
And as already said, the deck will be better vs delver decks but will have hard time vs unanswered early vial and cavern (d1t, goblins, merfolk), Cloudpost, Aggroloam, Jund, etc.. It's like improving already good MUs, Miracle and abandoning bad ones G1. You can't always bet on blood moon G2 vs fair decks ; any decent player will be prepared. And Blood moon is a 3 mana sorcery as well that can sometimes do nothing. Without Judgment, I strongly believe that you need more non Jace Threats G1.
Entreat sb is weird :).
I don't really maindeck Reb but I agree that you want something to flashback for 1 mana and I think Spell Snare is just the better choice. Even in the blue matchups it's still great (show and tell aside). It does a worse job killing delver of secrets than REB but I don't think you want to fetch a basic mountain with just a maindeck pyroblast anyways, and the whole idea of fetching duals (volcanic island) is the opposite of what I want to be doing vs delver strategies. The strenght of Spell Snare is that it's a tempo positive play in a not-so-tempo oriented deck. We often need this bump in the early stages of the game. Reb is also sometimes a tempo-positive play early but fetching for a basic mountain or a volcanic island (game1) is not ideal. Either you can't cast your spell or you are beeing wastelanded. The difference between having a spell snare or not on the draw vs DnT is huge. With a tempo positive play like Spell Snare and a manabase with preferably only basics it's very hard for them to win. I mean the difference is really game breaking, 20 lands or not. In matchups where you want Spell Snare early you often want to stop all of their future 2drops (like stoneforge mystic) so it's great since that it's not situational like a taxing counter like Spell Pierce. Other than that the options are slim for 1 mana interaction in blue. Envelop and Flusterstorm are ok but narrow.
Even if you side Spell Snare out vs decks with chalice of the void it's atleast an answer to it. Same vs Elves where it stops gsz for 1 and elvish visionary. Then you have the suite of; thalia, phyrexian revoker, stoneforge mystic, hymn to tourach, tarmogoyf, dark confidant, painter's servant, young pyromancer, infernal tutor, burning wish, cabal ritual, qasali pridemage, sylvan library, serra avenger, eidolon of great revels, argothian enchantress and more, aswell as the blue targets that REB also stops including snapcaster mage, counterspell, counterbalance, standstill, lord of atlantis, predict (!) and baleful strix. Basicly trading the list of non-blue cards for show and tell, jace, force of will, ancestral vision and true-name nemesis. I don't think Delver is a real argument for including REB md. It's mostly for show and tell, shardless and miracles I would say. The floor is just so low of MD pyro in a few matchups and I think we allready struggle to get rid of bad cards game1 as it is. Predict helps but only so much. I agree that Spell Snare is better in grixis to deal with the otherwise troublesome goyf but in this deck where it's all about value you are still not OK plowing sfm, YP or baleful strix for example. Snare pitching to Fow is also a thing, even vs the fair decks since you can compensate for the card-disadvantage.
I mean it's not really fair to compare the card Pyroblast to the card spell snare because even though Pyroblast has a lot more potential it comes with the risk of beeing completly blank or stressing the manabase. I still have 3 in the board and I dare to say that most blue matchups are very favored (except maybe sneak attack like I wrote about earlier). I am even considering getting rid of Flusterstorm for something with a broader application.
You are right in that the maindeck is slightly skewed to what I would consider the "top decks" and I don't belive 2 Blood moons and a stoneforge package is enough to win vs all of the fair decks. I belive there's not much to be done to the maindeck without weakening the "plan" so I def. need to work on the sideboard some more. Do you have any suggestion besides playing another blood moon? A second plains and a pair of entreat the angels, perhaps. Or cavern+mentor alongside the stoneforge package and get rid of blood moon completly. A friend of mine suggested Meddling mage, maybe paired with vendilion clique, as a way to semi-lock our opponent in the matchups where Counterbalance is not enough (like jund, merfolk, goblins). Or we can have more bombs like Ajani Vengeant to supplement Blood Moon and tap their basic forest. Or any other planeswaler really... preferably one without double red or white in it's cost.
Another idea rathen than blood moon is to play 2 Wastelands with a Crucible or worlds. Not as backbreaking as blood moon but would allow us to not only fetch, but to have a continous stream of shuffle effects at no cost.
Keranos costs five which is a little to much but it's very metadependant. It's very hard to deal with for Shardless.
Maybe Jace, Vryn's Prodigy as a one of in the board? It's snapcaster five after all.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
You'll excuse me if I cut a part of your post ; it's a matter of readability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mackan
I don't really maindeck Reb but I agree
...
after all.
More seriously, I see your points.
. Snare, consistency
Certainly, snare answers cards, and you gave an almost exhaustive list of them, but, few cards aside (as already mentioned), you already have answers for those (you will find terminus if it's sfm, and you will find sword if it's teeg). You gave specific examples where the card wins game, but it doesn't bring consistency. Snare remains a conditional card that doesn't answer problems you have trouble with (any planeswalker here -no entreat, council, mentor for now in the list, only counterspells which, certainly, can sometimes be enough).
It's quite paradoxical : For consistency, you add a 4th snapcaster, then you feel you have to add 1 mana spells, ending up on snare, which leads us to : do you really need additional 1-mana spells to play a 4th snapcaster ? Or conversely, is the 4th snapcaster even an option ?
Isn't (especially this version of) Miracle consistent enough to allow 1-slots with high power levels ?
.Reb
I'd like to point out that it is weird to play a maindeck mountain knowing that you don't have any red spells to use it. If you don't play pyroblast MD (which I agree, is quite inconvenient versus Delver), I would consider moving it to the sideboard (keeping the 20 land count main).
.Sb strats
It's quite difficult to give my opinion on this. It requires to list the MUs and do some work, maybe we could go on via private message.
. I played 1 plains Miracle lists not so long ago and Lands was a difficult Match up (do you agree ?). Blood moon certainly helps here. Crucible looks ok but takes 3 slots and won't be strong enough vs loam + exploration
. Additional threats will help dealing with planeswalkers (snap isn't really reliable for this task), especially clique, and mentor (or sulfur elemental ? - basic mountain helps). Entreat won't effectively deal with them as it is hard to setup ; slots are expensive, I don't think we can afford to have it in the sideboard.
Well it needs more thinking. I would be glad to hear more about your testing.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
A lot of interesting discussion these last pages. I agree with Snapcaster #4 being a valid option. I like Spell Snare a lot aswell. It's underplayed and I think it has potential as 2-off, I will test this a bit.
@Mackan- I would rather play 2-3 Monastery Mentor sideboard over Stoneforge Mystic+Batterskull.
It will carry so much in the grindy games and tier2-3 mu's..
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
I can see running 1 Spell Snare but 2? Most of the spells you'd want to be Snaring anyway are ones that can be handled by Spell Pierce instead. We don't care about Snapcasters or Goyfs or Bobs resolving. The only creature 2 drop that is really an issue is Thalia. In all other cases, Spell Pierce takes care of (an early) CotV and Sylvan Library and opposing CB. It can also hit troublesome enchantments that cost more (Choke, Pernicious Deed, maybe some other stuff) and Planeswalkers at early stages of the game. And by the time your opponent has mana to pay for their noncreature 2 drop being Pierced, you should have at least a hard counter in hand and/or a CB on the field.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
@Consistency. Sure with all the search in the deck there's a high chance we can see that one-off when we dig... But what if we draw that one-off Council's Judgment when we don't want it? If you play maybe 10 games those one-offs will come in handy, even pre-board. Then if you play 100 games you'll see that we can't really count on finding Council's Judgment when we need it and that it will certainly show up at the wrong time more often. This is why we have brainstorm so no big deal (one might think). Then after 1000 games you realize that just because brainstorm is extremly good at getting rid the "wrong cads" doesn't mean that want to stress it even further. It doesn't mean that we do not allready have 2 cards in our hand that are not perfect and we want to put back in our deck. A random one-off maindeck vcard is to brainstorm what a generic blue card is to force of will. You will often get away with it but after a while you realize that the upside is not worth it. Don't stress the good cards!
The velocity of the deck is an important thing to keep in mind and finding a specific card is very useful. Just look at the sideboard. Those 2 Blood Moons are about as likely to see play by turn 3 as the full playset out of Goblin Stompy. I just like to keep these in the sideboard and focus on generic answers instead (Like Counterspell) for my preboard games.
@Spell Snare
So you say that just because the best removal spell in legacy allready deals with dark confidant we don't need any more answers? Remember you can only play 4 swords to plowshares and even if you could play more there's an upside in having a card that's not JUST an answer to creatures (see the list in previous post). Decks with creatures are not constructed the same way as miracles. We have about half as many removal spells as they have creatures. Timing is also important... If you swords to plowshares stoneforge mystic, dark confidant or thalia some turns after they hit play the damage is allready done.
@Mentor
This is a lot better than stoneforge mystic as a replacement for Entreat the angels but it's also a lot worse on defence (think thalia, delver, goblin guide, nimble mongoose). There is no simple answer to which one that is better, it's all about context. 3 mana is a lot more than 2 simply because on the play we can cast stoneforge turn3 and keep spell snare up for their 2drop then just keep Stoneforge at the ready until the coast is clear. With mentor we have two options. Either we tap out turn3 (and basicly sidestep our whole gameplan of instants) or we wait until we have enough mana to make dudes/defend mentor when cast (and again, sidestep our gameplan by spending more cards on lands than we want). In honestly for a lot of matchups where we want mentor we sideboard most of our counterspells/cb out. Both of these options are fine vs something like aggro-loam or 12post. It is however ALOT worse against tempo/burn/taxing decks.
Another thing to keep in mind when comparing Mentor to Stoneforge (or other win-cons/fair-deck-hosers) is how the rest of the deck is constructed. If you have 4 Snapcasters, 2 Blood Moon and 2 Vendilion Clique in a postboard game vs Shardless BUG you are maybe a bit clunky if you top that off with a pair of mentors. Then for this specific matchup Stoneforge is not the best 2drop in magic because of Discard and Liliana of the veil. Then we have the pressence of Pithing Needle on Sensei's Divining Top which makes Mentor a lot worse. The ceiling of a 2/2 for 3 and a 1/2 for 2 are about the same. Then a typical SFM package is a precious sideboard slot more.
So again, there's no simple answer and I think it comes down to personal playstyle and expected metagame. I like to keep my guard up more than most :-P
@Spell Pierce
This falls under the same category as one-offs I adressed in the beginning of this post. We do not pressure our opponent enough and a good player will often simply have the mana to pay for spell pierce when it matters.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mackan
@Spell Snare
So you say that just because the best removal spell in legacy allready deals with dark confidant we don't need any more answers? Remember you can only play 4 swords to plowshares and even if you could play more there's an upside in having a card that's not JUST an answer to creatures (see the list in previous post). Decks with creatures are not constructed the same way as miracles. We have about half as many removal spells as they have creatures. Timing is also important... If you swords to plowshares stoneforge mystic, dark confidant or thalia some turns after they hit play the damage is allready done.
We don't give a damn about SFM. If they draw 1 or 2 cards with Bob, it's not the end of the world. FWIW, the other day I played against a BUG variant that was using Bobs and I knew I could safely cast an ETA because he revealed 3 non-blue cards that I knew were still in his hand and only had 1 mystery spell. Like I said, Thalia is the only concern. However, she'll be Vialed in so often that your Spell Snare will just rot in your hand. Or she'll be casted through a CoS.
Yea, we play 4 STPs. We also play 3-4 Snaps and 3-4 Terminus. We also have 3-4 Ponders and 4 Brainstorms and 4 Tops to dig us to those creature removal spells.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
My take on Mackan's Predictable Miracles. I didn't like having basic mountain with no red spells G1, I wanted to continue playing maindeck mentor, and the board now became a snapcaster mage playground, so we moved the 4th snapcaster to the board since after sideboarding we tend to clean up a lot of the inefficient cards. Will have more explanations if needed, but don't have a lot of time right now.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Island
1 Plains
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Predict
1 Spell Snare/1 Pyroblast
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Counterbalance
SB:
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pyroblast (or 1 pyroblast if you're playing 1 maindeck)
1 Red Elemental Blast (or 2 Red Elemental Blast if you're playing pyroblast maindeck)
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Containment Priest
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
During last month i was playing Miracles deck with stable result of 3-1 (getting into the prize) in the 20+ players' tournaments. I'm satisfied with my deck, but i'm having trouble in beating mirrors and grixis delver (the most common deck in our metagame).
// maindeck
1 vendilion clique
3 snapcaster mage
2 monastery mentor
2 stoneforge mystic
1 batterskull
4 sensei's divining top
4 counterbalance
2 jace, the mind sculptor
4 force of will
1 counterspell
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 swords to plowshares
4 terminus
1 council's judgment
4 flooded strand
3 scalding tarn
2 arid mesa
2 tundra
1 volcanic island
1 karakas
5 island
2 plains
1 mountain
// total: 61 cards
// sideboard:
2 ethersworn canonist
2 surgical extraction
2 pyroblast
1 hydroblast
2 disenchant
1 envelop
1 venser, shaper savant
1 pithing needle
1 blood moon
2 pyroclasm
I have two questions:
1. What do you think about "small SFM package" (2 SFM + 1 Batterskull)? Is it actual in modern global metagame? SFM are pretty good versus shardless BUG + an additional angle of attack.
2. I'm thinking about change like this:
-2 SFM -1 Batterskull +1 monastery mentor +1 pyroblast +1 land.
So, my second question is what kind of land do you think to put into the deck: island / volcanic island / cavern of souls or something other?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mainactivenet
-2 SFM, -1 Batterskull, -1 Mountain, -1 Island
+1 Volcanic, +1 Counterspell, +1 Jace, +1 Tundra
Should also consider if you want to be on karakas with only 1 legendary creature (2 after board).
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
RE: SFM Package
I'd rather have SFM in a Delver heavy metagame than an extra pyroblast and a land. I get a lot of flack from my local for playing Stoneforge in Miracles, but I do it anyways because I've had good success with it. A few of my friends call it "Miracles on training wheels." Maybe they are right, because I do view SFM as a bridge to the late game. Also, people much better at Magic than me don't play it, so I'm probably doing something wrong. Regardless, these are a few notes I've picked up on.
A few benefits:
* Lifelink can be too much for certain decks' resources to effectively kill you on damage (Burn, sometimes Delver, etc).
* Improves match ups like BUG Shardless and an assortment of random decks you might not expect to see. SFM is such a "good stuff" type card, it makes up for weirdness you encounter against random crap.
* Cheaper deployment cost is useful in match ups where leaving up mana for instants or top activations is essential. Especially against Combo, it lets me present a clock sooner and limit their draw phases.
* Makes the attack plan a little more diverse and has helped win mirrors. Helps the deck be more proactive in general, too.
* The extra two drops offer a little higher probability against stuff, like Storm, where 2's are more critical to hit. The extra 5 drop has also been useful against FOW decks.
* Works OK with Terminus.
A few cons:
* Opportunity cost of the 3 cards (Snapcaster is probably the one I miss most, because of how potent the sideboard is for Snapcaster).
* 4/4 isn't the biggest creature in the format, so you'll have use your STP's more selectively.
* Wear/Tear is a thing.
My list for reference:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
1 Counterspell
4 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
---
3 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
2 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Izzet Staticaster
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Split finals of an 80 man tournament with Predictable Miracles.
R1 Shardless BUG WIN 2-0
R2 12post WIN 2-1
R3 Grixis Delver WIN 2-1
R4 Storm LOSS 0-2
R5 Burn WIN 2-1
R6 Storm WIN 2-0
R7 ID
T8 Miracles WIN 2-0
T4 DNT WIN 2-0
T2 ID
This deck is insane. EXTREMELY powerful in the mirror and BUG matchups. Also almost decked out a couple times. I think the only time I missed having extra win conditions was against 12post? I highly recommend this deck and will likely be streaming it once or twice this week.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnziD
Split finals of an 80 man tournament with Predictable Miracles.
R1 Shardless BUG WIN 2-0
R2 12post WIN 2-1
R3 Grixis Delver WIN 2-1
R4 Storm LOSS 0-2
R5 Burn WIN 2-1
R6 Storm WIN 2-0
R7 ID
T8 Miracles WIN 2-0
T4 DNT WIN 2-0
T2 ID
This deck is insane. EXTREMELY powerful in the mirror and BUG matchups.
Aside from the first 2 rounds, you played against generally favorable MUs anyway. I'd like to see how well the list does against the less-favorable ones that @Mackan described (4c Loam, Sneak Show, MUD). I can see it doing better against MUD, but not 4c Loam, and Sneak Show is a beating regardless.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutthroatCasual
Aside from the first 2 rounds, you played against generally favorable MUs anyway. I'd like to see how well the list does against the less-favorable ones that @Mackan described (4c Loam, Sneak Show, MUD). I can see it doing better against MUD, but not 4c Loam, and Sneak Show is a beating regardless.
I wouldn't use the word favorable to describe the Burn and Storm matchups. Burn is all about finding CB and that's not necessarily guaranteed. Firecraft is also a huge huge problem and I want to go as far as saying it puts the matchup in their favor outside of really really bad draws. G1 vs Storm is a coin toss which depends on the kind of hand you keep (in the dark) and G2 is a lot closer to 50/50, depending on how both sides board. I also think DnT is an unfavorable matchup (which is debated by many) and that the only reason the mirror is favored here is because of this specific build. Also, I think having a stronger Shardless matchup is actually really relevant and deserves both attention and due credit - at least, it deserves way more than a matchup like MUD or 4C Loam.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnziD
I wouldn't use the word favorable to describe the Burn and Storm matchups. Burn is all about finding CB and that's not necessarily guaranteed. Firecraft is also a huge huge problem and I want to go as far as saying it puts the matchup in their favor outside of really really bad draws. G1 vs Storm is a coin toss which depends on the kind of hand you keep (in the dark) and G2 is a lot closer to 50/50, depending on how both sides board. I also think DnT is an unfavorable matchup (which is debated by many) and that the only reason the mirror is favored here is because of this specific build. Also, I think having a stronger Shardless matchup is actually really relevant and deserves both attention and due credit - at least, it deserves way more than a matchup like MUD or 4C Loam.
100% agree on the assessment of Burn MU, lately due to firecraft, it's been a problem.
I don't even think Predict is the sole reason to have a higher win percentage against Shardless, if exists at all. Is it possible that the Shardless player(s) playing bad?
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
twndomn
100% agree on the assessment of Burn MU, lately due to firecraft, it's been a problem.
I don't even think Predict is the sole reason to have a higher win percentage against Shardless, if exists at all. Is it possible that the Shardless player(s) playing bad?
Not discounting the Shardless player, but I think you underestimate how backbreaking Predict actually is.
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
(Firecraft and Abrupt Decay are both screwed by Redirect)
Let's make an assumption: counters do not work anymore as before.
Vial and Cavern are staples, Boseiju is always seen in every meta.
We start to need to be able to deal with actual permanents instead of the stack.
Reb is fine
Terminus and StP are
CJ is great
I try to start playing 1 Wear/Tear MD
Re: [DTB] Miracle Control
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AnziD
Split finals of an 80 man tournament with Predictable Miracles.
R1 Shardless BUG WIN 2-0
R2 12post WIN 2-1
R3 Grixis Delver WIN 2-1
R4 Storm LOSS 0-2
R5 Burn WIN 2-1
R6 Storm WIN 2-0
R7 ID
T8 Miracles WIN 2-0
T4 DNT WIN 2-0
T2 ID
This deck is insane. EXTREMELY powerful in the mirror and BUG matchups. Also almost decked out a couple times. I think the only time I missed having extra win conditions was against 12post? I highly recommend this deck and will likely be streaming it once or twice this week.
List?
