I've never considered running Crystal Ball. Maybe I should.
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I've never considered running Crystal Ball. Maybe I should.
For me I cast Magma Jet often just for the scry the ball seemed like it was worth a giving a shot. I am running Painter @ SCG DC this weekend with at least a single Crystal Ball in it.
@ Vesper Ghoul-I'll also be at SCg Dc this weekend with painter. I most likely will be running a blue splash as i have had great results against zoo and the like with the blue sideboard that I mentioned earlier. I'll look for you at the event. Maybe we will even end up playing next to each other like at Philly.
Seth
Just want you to know that I went 4-1-1 at last Legacy in Hannover, GER (49 participants). Finished 8th due to horrible oppscore.
Thopter 2:1 Win (would've been 2:0, but the judge misjudged a situation)
Aggro Loam 2:1 Win
Dredge 2:1 Win
Mono R Sneak Attack 1:2 Loss
Merfolk 2:0 Win
Enchantress ID for Top 8
My Deck was the following:
5 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Badlands
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Figure of Destiny
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Grindstone
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
3 Chrome Mox
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blood Moon
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Sideboard
4 Trinisphere
3 Perish
2 Blood Moon
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Stingscourger
In the last events I had to face Zoo at least one time and so I decided to run the splash. Didn't work out this time, but Perish was fine against Aggro Loam too.
The loss was a hard one cause he didn't care for my moons. I was able to steal the first game on the back of Revoker, which did great all day long in naming Sneak Attack, Vial and Mox Diamond. Second game I lost to 2x Wurmcoil Engine and a Rorix Bladewing and in the third I had mull down to 5 and he had SA first turn with Ulamog and second turn Emrakul.
The Revoker definately deserves a slot, at least in SB. Don't know if he should be maindecked instead of the Wildfire Emissary, but as I will cut Faerie Macabre he's in the SB for sure. Tutoring for a Faerie could be sweet sometimes, but in most cases another toolbox target is strictly better. Against SA decks, Macabre has zero impact cause they pack at least 4 Emrakul (and 2 Progenitus most of time, which makes the combo worse). Eventually I will up the count of Crypts to three, but I'm not sure for now.
I will play this deck in 2 week at the Wintermercadiade, Hamburg, Germany (~150 players). As far as I know, my teammates own the stuff that is needed for the transformer SB. I'm looking forward to test it.
Upper tables this time, okay?Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
A friend of mine ran into some money, and is looking at this archetype. The main concern he has is ruining his Recruiters by playing them. I'm curious as to how judges look at proxy-ing for such high-end cards, as long has you have the real thing?
Only head judges at events can issue proxies to use in a sanctioned tournament when cards become damaged.
I worried about the same thing when I bought my Recruiters at less than half of what they are now. Sadly I have also come to realize people shuffle up power all the time so it could be worse. Tell him to double sleeve his deck which reduces the risk of bad things happening.
worrying about recruiters is silly, i play with beta duals... just double sleeve, you'll be fine.
Yeah your friend should be fine. I use kmc perfect fits to double sleeve band unlike condoms double alerting cards really works! Even when I play vintage I don't mind speeding up the alpha power I have. I have been playing with my recruiters for over two years and they are still in great shape. A playmat is a must though. To play this deck unfortunately you just have to acknowledge you are placeing 1200 bucks on the table.
@vesper ghoul- top tables would be better but I ran a train over people on the back tables after losing rounds two and three to belcher and zoo. Do you guys from Bethlehem have a place to crash in dc. I will be working at the hospital on Friday night but I will be post call sat afternoon and you guys are welcome to crash at my house in dc if it makes it better for you guys. In response to crystal ball, I haven't tested the card at all. I like where your head is at with it but I really think top is better. If you ran fetches and recruiters you have enough shuffle effects to reply make it work. And the top will affect the board state the turn you cast it. Crystal ball makes you wait a turn and as a top deck that just blows. In response to the splash I reLly don't know what is the right call. Within the last year I have played mono red and three different splashes and at each time I thought it was the right call. Right now I'm really liking the blue splash but I can see arguments for mono red or black splash.
If anyone is thinking about starting to play the deck I really recommend learning on the mono red build. It is by far the easiest version to play as it takes when and what to fetch out of the equation. I still believe this deck is one of the hardest to play. So practice the shit out of playing the deck. I have been playing a version of the deck for two years almost exclusively and I have won a couple mods and many dual lands with the deck and I still make many mistakes with it. That's my two sense.
Vesper Goul-if you guys need anything pm me and I'll give you my cell.
Seth
Alright, thanks for the pointers! He'll appreciate this I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Epic Fail Could have used some info but I hadn't checked the thread till tonight. :/ Oh well thanks Seth, catch yah in a few hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
SO I managed to go 5-3 at the Starcitygames open today. I punted my last game in the last round against goblins. I would love to say the kid outplayed me, but I kept a semi weak hand and missed a trigger as I was just too tired. He did draw the nuts and the games I lost saw my opponent hit three Gempalm incinerates against me. Otherwise the Weirding would not have been able to get me. I dropped a tough round against Junk, and was just outclassed. my other lose was against the big mana artifact decks. i had to mull to 5 and 6 and really was never in those games. Maybe I should not have kept the hands but it was the first time I played the match up. Overall I beat goblins twice, death and taxes, merfolk and counterbalance. I loved the blue splash and I really think it takes the deck to the next level. i didn't play zoo, but i def. don't fear it anymore. I'll get a full write up in the next couple days along with some sideboarding plans and future thoughts on the deck. I basically beat myself today, but that will happen when you are post 48 hours of call at the hospital. The deck deserved better than me today.
Seth
Hey Seth. Thanks for teaching me that Emrakul has the ability to block in DC yesterday. I will never forget that lesson!
I played this list this weekend in our local Mirkwood Cup with 82 entries. I placed 3rd/4th....
Creatures
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Figure of Destiny
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Planeswalkers
1 Koth of the Hammer
Enchantments
2 Blood Moon
Spells
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Lightning Bolt
Artifacts
4 Grindstone
2 Chrome Mox
Lands
5 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Swamp
4 Bloodstained mire
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Sideboard
3 Engineered Plague
4 Trinisphere
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Perish
1 Viashino Heretic
3 Diabolic Edict
Round 1 - Playing Pro Tour player Matt Hague......he wins the roll and elects go first, plays and underground sea and ponders......passes. I think he is playing storm, so I go Ancient Tomb and SSG for magus of the moon.......he does nothing to but lay lands as I beat him down. I never play the combo as there is no need. I have no idea what he is playing, but I think he thinks I am playing dragon stompy....I SB nothing. Game 2 features a turn 2 blitterblossom, some counters.....he meets my blast, I assemble combo and mill the library. He shakes head in frustration like he should of won......failing to realize that its a terrible match up for him and obiviously legacy is not his thing.
Round 2 - Playing some extremely nice but drunk guy playing Threshold, who some how managed to win round 1......he takes a while the shuffle, counts his SB 4 times.....we play a few turns, he is going to die anyways as I have turn 3 combo with double blast back up......but on his third turn he drops his hand on the table after drawing his card and says he scoops cause he didn't desideboard.....heh, checked it four times but never actually LOOKED. Game 2 features us trading some damage, but me comboing off for the win....
Round 3 Chris Hauge....a local, nice guy....hate losing to him, as he doesn't own any cards just always borrows decks. I seem to always get matched up against him in tournaments like these and I always seem to lose games I should win....game 1, stuff all going my way, suddenly lots of goblins and I am dead. Game 2, SB in Plagues.....Play land and pass.....he plays lackey, turn 2 I play Tomb and a plague......I then proceed to drawn nothing but lands while he gets double warchief with a piledriver.....I die. Unreal....
Round 4 - Matched up versus goblins again. I think this guy was from Canada. Super nice. I was sitting by him in round 2, so I know he has a white splash in the deck....Game 1, he murders me....I am thinking tourney over for me, but he then asks around if Grindstone Targets a player, I tell him yes it does. I can already tell Leyline is coming in....I laugh at stuff like Leyline and Null Rod....I just blast them folks. Low and Behold he drops two at the start of the game.....little does he know I have one blast already, steady mana and the combo in hand. At the end of his 4th turn I blast both of them and combo off.....Game 3, no leyline but he also tried to get tricky with his own blasts.....he fails to realize, they are blue too....so my two are better than his 1. I combo off for the win.
Round 5 Kinda a weird very quiet dude, but he was nice. I dunno how well he knows the rules on certain cards though......Game 1 I get a blood moon out early, so I just start beating down, I then assemble combo, but when I combo I see Emrakul...crap. So I use the mill effect to shuffle his stuff, constantly screwing up his brainstorms, LDV and Top....I have double painter on the table and 3 blasts in hand....I draw a Recruiter, so I go get Jaya thinking I will start blowing up all his land....I then realize, go ahead and show and tell! He does, I play jaya....he plays the big bitch.....I untap and destroy her with a City of Traitors. Game 3 I SB In my Macbre and Crypt. I go in beat down mode again, but I assemble the combo.....I have to blast a two show and tells, but then I draw Jaya with an active Welder in play and two grindstones.....so I fear show and tell no more. I draw my crypt, play it....he shrugs and says ok...so his next turn, I activate grindstone, weld painter into play....he starts milling till he hits an emrakul and goes to shuffle. I explain to him, Grindstone finishes, Emrakul triggers go on the stack....but I will crypt him in response....game over. He doesn't believe me, I say call a judge....he shrugs his shoulders and says he misplayed both games and should of won....
Round 6 Not sure what this guy was really playing, was some form of CB I think....Game 1 blood moon rocks the world....I have no idea what he is playing, but again I beat down so he has no idea about the combo. Game 2 was a bit more of challenge as he wisely gets basics.....but combo backed up by blasts paves the way.
Round 7 Intentional Draw....5-1-1
Quarter Final - Playing Shawn Yu with Zoo.....ugh...Game 1, I get out a quick Magus, but its not enough to slow down the assault before I can combo off. Game 2 features an actual blood moon.....which has has no answer for without a forest....Koth hits the table and quickly finishes the deal. Game 3 is where it gets strange.....I am basically holding on for dear life. I finally get the combo....but I mistap my mana, using my badlands and swamp insteal of city to cast painter....DUMB. Leaves me a Mountain, City and Tomb to mill him, but with only one mountain I can only blast once, though I had two in my hand....I am at 7, so tomb is gonna put me in burn range....this is where it gets weird.....I declare the end of my turn. He then proceeds to cast Swords to Plowshare on painter, I blast it....he then casts another, CRAP! Well, I activate Grindstone in response. He then taps three mana and says "Krosan Grip targeting grindstone"....he even puts the grip on the grindstone. I am like, ok.....mill your library. He sinks in his chair, realizing his error. On a normal monday tourney I let him take this back all day, but this is for a black lotus....so I stuck to my guns. I place grindstone in the graveyard and painter in exile, gaining a life to put me back at 6....he doesn't have any burn in hand....I did feel bad, but that's part of the game....
Semi-Final Against Corbett playing Zoo.....god hates me. It was not any better though, as the other two Finalist were Show and Tell (rocking Progentitus and Emrakul) and BGW Junk.....both bad matchups for me too. We all agreed to split the prizes, but rules require we play for a winner so we left the box and sinkholes to the winner with each of us taking $250 cash......Corbett gets an early pridemage that I never kill.....I assemble combo but am one mana short to activate, but I fail to see it would not of mattered as corbett could of used his knight to get a untapped land to use pridemage to kill my painter. Game 2 I kill him turn 2.....WEE! Game 3.....this is back and forth beatdown. I get out a Koth, but don't draw a blocker....he attacks and bolts it.....we then trade back and forth. I have grindstones out, but I know he is rocking removal....I just keep drawing lands. My last draw....land....so I grindstone him twice taking 4 damage to go out in style....first one I whiff....land and burn....other grindstone hits burn and lavamancer, then knight and pridemage....but then land and burn...My next card, Perish....which might of been nice a few turns back, as I had him at 7 and it would of forced him to kill my creatures, and I would not of chumped with them.....
In the end, I was happy with how the deck performed. I didn't get a chance to really spend time on it like I wanted, as I had been sick all week.....and had to take my son to hockey that morning so my SB and last minute changes were done in about 10 minutes.....The welder was underwhelming ALL day. I think I ever used it once....beyond it just getting killed, I don't really have enough artifacts in the deck to make it work. The edicts were not bad....they actually worked against more decks than I thought.....though I think I would like the 3rd perish. Plague, I just dunno on this. I've lost multiple times with it out.....I don't even side it in against Merfolk...at this point I almost wondering if the black splash is worth it......
Later EddieO
Hiya,
i have been playing this for a while now and i love it, the only problem i have with it that i lose to my self.
Bad Draws can't seem to find my grindstone etc.
Is the problem me bad mull decisions, karma or i just don't get the deck?
I noticed that most of the decks went to splashing black is that the way to go atm?
The current build i have is mono R;
3x Top
3x Mox
4x Grindstone
4x Painter
4x SSG
4X Recruiter
3x Magus
2x Figure of destny
1x Jaya
2x Moon
3x Pyroblast
3x ReB
3x Bolt
2x Koth
4x City
4x Tomb
8x Mountain
3x Fetch
I need to get a revoker main but i have no idea what to cut. Also noticed that most of hte decks posted play only 1 koth did i miss something?
6 moon effects of 5?
I hope some of you can help me?
grt,
Yui
Nice to see one there is playing more then 1 top and 1 koth.. :D (not all that randomness like most of the lists in here) :S
I doesnt realy like figure of destny.. I think its bad becus if you doesnt have a blood moon effect on the battlefield its just hard times to get it "lvled"
So if i was you i would do this:
-2 figure of destny
+1 revoker
+1 Magus
-Grymer :)
I'm on the fence about the Revoker. Will the idea of a tutorable needle is great, it just doesn't do what you want in testing. I would never cut figures for it. The figure is really important right now with the rise of goblins. In the last two events I played in I saw 6 goblin decks. I lost once and that kid would top 16 at the starcitygames open. Actually all three of my loses were to people who top 16 at the event. I will no longer be running the Revoker in my builds. I def recommend six main deck blast effects.
I'm still working on the blue splash and transformational sideboard. I'm trying to determine if I want Eldrazi vs a big hydra right now. Other than that two koth should be in the deck. The black splash is still strong but I have found the blue splash to bestronger against zoo and show and tell/NO decks. Sometime when I'm not getting destroyed at the hospital I want to get an updated list up with a detailed sideboard plan.
If you are losing to yourself often times you are making the mulligan choices. Sometimes you mulligan to oblivion like I did against the MUD deck. But to really be good with the deck you have to basically play the deck against everything. It isn't a combo deck that just worries about counter magic so knowing the important spells in each matchup is critical. I think my updated primer goes into this a bit and it is a few pages back. I'll try to update it with a new post soon. Good luck!
Seth
The Revoker was pretty underwhelming for me too.....as was the welder.
I am not a fan of the top......while its nice sometimes, I found myself loathing it.
I cut a Koth for a revoker and regretted it all day....
I would NEVER cut Figure.......leveling it to a monster 4/4 is easy as pie....to an 8/8 well that rarely happens, but in the end its not very often you need the 8/8 anyways. Figure is a big deal against Goblins.....Figure=Lackey Killer...3-4 bolts just won't cut it.
I am thinking about cutting a magus for another blood moon....I just like the the ability to keep moon on the table easier, while the magus gets killed so easy.
I've thought about the blue splash....and after this last tourney, where the black was OK at best.....I am thinking about it. I am just concerned about a 2 card combo with no card drawing really in the deck. I am thinking consuming vapors for the SB.....I love what it does against show and tell or even zoo....
Later EddieO
Well in my meta there isnt alot of goblins.. All the players there are too greedy they mostly play with alot of duels insted of basic's and 3-4 colors and mostly blue.. so its just paradise to play Imperial Painter... Thats why i doesnt play with figure.. My list is more control/combo based then the beat down plan.. :)
-Grymer
Well, if your meta is as you say, then Vexing Shusher will go alot farther in your meta than Revoker will....
Later EddieO