Printable View
A list with 4 Noble Hierarch and 4 Qasali Pridemage seems cool. You'd lose Mox Diamond and Hymn to Tourach, but you could try out Dueling Grounds, which has always seemed like a cool card to me. Elspeth would get even better.
I doubt you'd want to run Deed; but honestly, Engineered Explosives seems way better in this environment anyways. You'd also have to pack more combo hate in the side most likely though.
But overall, an Exalted subtheme seems like it would work well in the deck.
Turn 1 Hierarch, Turn 2 Pridemage (with 1 mana open for Daze/activation) is a pretty nice play. And you don't have to cast a single creature after that if your opponent doesn't touch your board as Pridemage becomes a 5 turn clock. And this is without even focusing or caring about Exalted; you really play Hierarch for mana accel and smoothing and Pridemage to deal with retarded shit (Survival seems nice...)
I recently ran into a whole slew of Affinity decks in my local meta and was wondering on some sideboard choices. Null Rod is a popular choice I know. I was also considering these two less popular choices that might still have some use outside the Affinity MU.
Serenity
Enchantment, 1W (2)
At the beginning of your upkeep, destroy all artifacts and enchantments. They can't be regenerated.
and
Oxidize
Instant, G (1)
Destroy target artifact. It can't be regenerated.
I could be wrong, but it feels like 3 mana for Krosan is going to come too late and I'm already going to be in a world of hurt by t3.
kataki, war's wage would be something i would use, its a beater with 2/1, that costs only 1W, and gives all artefacts an upkeep cost of 1, otherwise just use deed, to blow up all their lands, for example, and you should win, but if you want to dedicate some sideboard slots to it, just go ahead, but i would just handle their big beats and go for a deed to blow them into their death
btw, needle is awesome here,.... needle on ravager or needle on cranial plating is stellar
but i find it very strange to run into affinity, since its a way too vulnerable deck and not even as fast as zoo or sligh
Affinity has gotten a lot faster since Scars. Some lists are even dropping Aether Vial because it just slows them down. lol They pick up Memnite, Mox Opal, and Galvanic Blast. But yeah, I forgot about Kataki. Good call there.
I hear Deed tears them a new one. Never had a problem playing against Affinity with the Rock...
-Matt
Yeah, I've been running EE over Deed because of the Mox Diamonds, but I'll mess around I suppose.
I just tried a single Maze of Ith for the first time today during testing (against Zoo and Affinity). Maze of Ith is epically good. Basically, you fetch it with you KotR and are able to attack with Knight and leave him open to block/fetch. It gives us the opportunity to easily race games where we are behind on board position. It also synergies well with Sejiri Steppe. My land toolbox nowadays is looking like 1 Karakas, 1 Maze of Ith, and 1 Sejiri Steppe.
It came down to a toss up between Sejiri and Volrath's Stronghold. Stronghold would really shine in the control MU, but the problem is that you are unlikely to resolve a KotR against them and if you do, then you don't particularly need Stronghold anyways. Stronghold basically takes one turn to work, another turn to put your creature back in play, and then still another turn until your creature is actually active again. Sejiri Steppe, on the other hand, loses you no turns at all.
Yeah, cipt lands are kind of janky in Legacy, but Sejiri Steppe gives you a free 2 for 1 on their spot removal. I've only drawn it twice so far. The first time I drew into it and used it to swing in past blockers, the second time it was in my opening 7 and I threw it to Mox Diamond. The only reason I'd run Stronghold over Steppe would be to synergize with Eternal Witness in a control build. If you are running the Hymn/aggro build then I'd definitely suggest Steppe.
I think that as long as you are running Diamonds its okay to run 1-2 CIP lands, and you should be able to avoid being slowed down generally speaking.
Losing your Diamonds to Deed is just like losing your BoP. As long as you got your use outta them its all good, and affinity is going to loose everything, and you're just losing the Mox.
Deed is most definitely one sided for you, even if you're losing your mana producers. Like Throst said, basically pulling off a one-sided Apocalypse without discarding your hand.
On another note, I'm back from midterms and will be able to post a bit more on here. Who has tested the Vengevine matchup extensively? If no one has, I'll try to out a hundred or so games to get some Statistics for us. If anyone can also do some testing, that'd be swell.
Regards,
Matt
No, I know Deed is definitely very one sided vs Affinity, but I also have to consider other matchups where blowing up my own Diamonds/Goyf/etc may not be so favorable. Still, I'll consider Deed over EE. I think the single Maze of Ith might be enough to even out the Affinity MU though (in addition to running some hate in the board, probably Grip, but we'll see).
Surprisingly, I still have yet to run into any Vengevival decks in my area, although I know 3 people working to put some together.
i am testing the brad nelson list right now, with the only difference of me trying a few different lands instead of the second swamp, and me playing 61 cards......, my problem with the 61th card is to decide what deserves the slot, right now i am using life from the loam, to get back fetchs, canopy, and wastes, but i am quite not satisfied with the card, i will not go up to 24 land, because i allready get flooded from time to time
i would love if someone has a suggestion, right now i am thinking of following choices: 2nd deed main (another 2 side) , one of-diabolic edict, one of shriekmaw, one of doran or some other beater,...... just can't decide
i am leaning towards 2nd deed, because the list has some problems against decks, that even after so much discard are able to swarm, so deed should be fine,...... anyone other suggestions?, .... besides its rarely to happen that you will blow up any of your own creatures with a deed, since you are only playing about 12
lands tested so far:
treetop village ..... no good, the comes into play tapped is just horrible, otherwise it would be awesome
nantuko monastery...... no good either, because it dies to the same hate as goyf and knight
volraths stronghold....... as Dzra allready said, stronghold is more for a controlish build, even though i allways loved stronghold, i will have to cut it
bojuka bog....... again, comes into play tapped sucks, but can be useful in some situations, specially if you face a lot of graveusing decks, and i can see it be usefull against vengevine, but not as much as the sideboard extirpates
lands still going to be tested:
mishras factory..... could be quite useful and does not come into play tapped, but is colorless
mutavault........ same as factory, but maybe more usefull against tribal
sejiri steppe..... Dzra may be right on this one, have to test, could be quite usefull, and i did not even think of giving my creature protection to force lethal damage even though opponent could have blocked, .... i really like the idea
there should be a lot more lands that should be tested, but no others come to my mind right now
one thing is i do not understand, i read about the synergy of knight with maze of ith, but do not really understand how it works, what purpose does it have to attack with your knight and use maze on your own knight,... if i do not missunderstand my knight will not deal damage like this, or is there something i took wrong?
and again as just said, i would love if someone could come up with some suggestions for my 61th slot
Combat has 5 steps:
Beginning of combat
Declare attackers
Declare blockers
Combat damage
End of combat
Creatures that are in combat remain in combat until the very end of the End Of Combat. So you can attack, assign damage in the Damage step and then Maze your creature in the End Of Combat after damage has already been assigned.
I totally forgot that you could do that, Drza. Silly me :P
Maze seems like a pretty decent inclusion, then.
-Matt
nice thing, i was plazing maye, and did not even know this, and found maye good either way, so with this, its just awesome^^
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Krosan Grip
3 Great Sable Stag
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Cabal Therapy
That's my current jund build. I feel like the combination of Dark Confident+Top is extremely powerful as it softens the loss of life as well as netting card advantage and cascade+top is just unfair. Any tips?
Aren't your men a bit too small on average? Goyf is great, but everything else has low p/t.Quote:
Originally Posted by AznSeal
Since you're playing black, you should probably include some black gravehate. Extirpate, for example.
Hey guys, what's up?
I'm new to the forum and I absolutly loved this thread!
The Rock is my all time favourite deck, and since I started playing Legacy recently, I decided that this would be the ideal deck for me to play.
I currently own, along with a friend of mine, a decent amount of Legacy staples but I'm still really short on Duals, ONS fetchlands and FOW, as well as a few other things. In spite of our "limitation" when we play at our local store
( http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?19140-[Videos]-Liga-Gargula-Legacy-V-1s-Tournament ) we can always build a decent EvaDepths deck and an average Doran deck. Well, my friend is now testing a cool Tezzerator list and I decided to put this one together (bare in mind the fact that I use shocklands and Ghost Quarters due to the lack of money to invest in Duals and Wastelands lol):
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
1 Shriekmaw
3 Thoughtseize
3 Gerrard's Veredict
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Smother
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Unearth
Sideboard:
3 Duress
3 Extirpate
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Krosan Grip
1 Umezawa's Jitte
A few notes:
Maze of Ith: awsome board control, besides the fact that it stops your opponent's creatures from smashing you in the face, also helps by providing an extra blocker after a successful attack;
3 Tarmogoyf? Yes, unfortunatly, I fail to own the 4th lol that is why I use a Shriekmaw as a recursive removal/beatdown. I know it hurts to take 5 'cause of the Bob but I couldn't think of another creature
No Deed, no Vindicate? Once again, I fail to have any of these cards. That's why I use Maelstrom Pulse and Unearth as well as a singleton Jitte.
Unearth? What the hell is that, some of you may ask... Simply enough, that is the card I figured I could use to fight the mirror becaouse my local metagame is crawling with Deadguy/Junk.
As for Jitte, I figured it would be very usefull against Aggro MU because of the advantage an active Jitte alone can provide.
I wont discuss the Sideboard because it seemed optimal the last time I faced that Meta and I lost only one game post-board (game 3 vs. Merfolks access to top8 round).
My question now is about fighting the Mirror! What do you suggest? I would love to fit Elspeth and Obstinate Baloth (Shriekmaw slot, perhaps?) as they seem to be very powerfull cards in the mirror match. Discarding Baloth, gaining 4 life and a 4/4 body looks really nice, I guess. And swinging past you opponent's KotR with your FLYING KotR always feels cool!
Well, hope you can help me out, next tournament is this Sunday!
Cheers,
Tiago aka Antares
Played today with the following list and went 3 wins, 1 draw. Top 8 split the prize.
Land 23
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
Creatures 12
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
Other Spells 25
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sideboard 15
4 Extirpate
4 Engineered Plague
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Choke
2 Path to Exile
I did a last minute epic trade to beef my deck up. ;D Traded Jace the Mind Sculptor, two slightly roughed up Mox Diamonds, and four Terravores to get 4 Tarmogoyfs. Now I knew I was locked and loaded. ;)
And sorry if my reports aren't that great, I've been out all day since the tournament and my memory is a bit fuzzy. You should be able to get the idea though. <3
Round 1: Merfolk
Game 1: He was on the play, dropped an island and passed. I decide to play around Daze even though it turns out he didn't have any in hand all game. ;p He plays a lord, I Swords. I eventually drop a Goyf and a top. He starts building some steam. I play EE for 2 and kill two more lords, another folk and my Goyf, drop a Wasteland and kill his Mutavault. I play a kotr and grab a Maze of Ith. I stabilize at 9 or so. He can't get around the evergrowing Knight. I win.
Board: -4 Hymn to Tourach, -4 Thoughtseize, +2 Path to Exile, +2 Choke, +4 Engineered Plague
Game 2: He plays a Tropical Island. I bait him with a Dark Confidant. It works, he Dazes. He plays some Merfolk or another. I play Choke t2, say go. The rest is pretty painful for him. He spends several turns with a Misty Rainforest sitting there. I get out a Goyf and a Knight. He eventually draws another land, fetches, plays Goyf. I fetch a Wasteland, so now he's back to 1 land. I Swords his Goyf and proceed to beat face with the team (using Maze to untap the Knight).
Round 2: Elves Aggro
Games 1: I play, he mulls to 6. T1 Thoughtseize. He has a hand full of 2 and 3 drops, with 1 Forest and 1 Land Grant. I take Land Grant. He plays a Forest and passes. I Hymn to Tourach, he tosses a couple lords. I play Goyf. He plays a Quirion Ranger. Here's where it gets bad. I have Wasteland, Vindicate, and a couple fetches in my hand. I wanted to Vindicate his only land, but gg @ that. So I figure I'll Vindicate the elf and hope I draw into something. Nope. I draw land the next 6 or 7 turns in a row. He gets out a deathtouch elf that stalls Goyf and then he explodes before I can draw gas. He still takes a long time to kill me because I land an EE and eventually get a Knight and a Maze out. It was still a lost cause though and I knew it. I really should have conceded to get on with game 2, but I'm stubborn. I valiantly double Wasteland my own Bayous and KotR my basic Forest to stop his forestwalking elves and surprise block his dudes, but he eventually beats my face in with numbers and lords.
Board: -4 Dark Confidant, -2 Vindicate, +4 Engineered Plague, +2 Path to Exile
Game 2: I don't remember everything, this game went fast. I t1 Thoughtseize, take his mana producer. t2 Goyf. t3 Engineered Plague. t4 Knight. Beat face. Pause, Vindicate a Pithing Needle on Knight. Continue to beat face.
After Game 2, we hit time and had to draw. Boo hoo. That's what I get for being stubborn.
Round 3: Enchantress
Game 1: T1 Goyf. t2 Knight. At some point here, I have the option to either Vindicate his Enchantress's Presence or his Chrome Mox. I decide to save it. I remember thinking it was a good call, because he dropped another land next turn anyways. I feed a second Mox Diamond to Goyf and I continue to beat face. He scoops.
Board: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -2 EE, +4 Extirpate, +2 Diabolic Edict (I thought he might board in Emrakul, but he didn't)
Game 2: He played and fetched. I Extirpate his Windswept Heath and get to peak at his hand and library. Nothing too exciting. T2 Dark Confidant. T3 Top and Goyf. Bring out a Knight, Thoughtseize. See that he's got nothing. Vindicate his Enchantress's Presence (this was probably an overly confident play as you'll see). He draws Enlightened Tutor for Moat. Luckily I find a Hymn with Top. He has three cards in hand, luck is with me (and statistics ;D), Moat to the yard. Next turn swing for victory.
Round 4: Zoo
Game 1: I was on the play. My hand was Wasteland, fetch, fetch, Hymn, Hymn, Swords, Swords. I feel good. Play fetch, say go. He plays a Steppe Lynx. Swords. T2 Hymn, draw another land. He plays a Kird Ape. T3 Hymn again and Wasteland. He stalls. T4, I Swords the Ape, play a Goyf. Eventually get a Knight out and decide to keep him on defense. Good call. He eventually tries to double Chain Lightning Knight, I fetch Sejiri Steppe. He face palms.
Board: -4 Thoughtseize, +2 Path, +2 Diabolic Edict
Game 2: He plays a Kird Ape. I Wasteland his Taiga, pitch Sejiri Steppe to Mox Diamond, Swords his tiny Ape. Plays another land, gets another Wasteland. T3 I play a Goyf. He paths Goyf. T4 I play Bob and Wasteland again. I play Top, meanwhile he has no board. I get out a Knight. He gets out a Plains, plays Steppe Lynx two turns in a row with no landfall in sight. I EE for 1 an continue swinging. Good game.
It's close to 5:00 and we are all hungry, so we split. The top 4 were me, URG "Good Stuff," Team America (UBG), and something else... I want to say either Goblins or Enchantress. I used my prize support to get a Pernicious Deed and a couple packs. The Deed went straight into the sideboard in place of the 3rd Diabolic Edict. How do you like that, elves? :)
Other than the Deed, I really wouldn't change anything.
MVPS:
Knight of the Reliquary is amazing. So long as they don't reprint him, I can only see his value going up. His ability to be completely huge and beat face is only matched by his amazing utility. There are so many good lands.
Engineered Explosives devastated Merfolk. I knew it was good against Zoo, but I didn't realize how centered around 2cmc Merfolk was.
Top was amazing. I've known some people to use Mirri's Guile instead to cut down on the extra 1 to peak, but Top was amazing. At least 4 or 5 times, I would fetch/shuffle and then use top to put a creature in my hand so that I could play it that turn. If I had been using Mirri's Guile, I would have wasted an entire turn drawing the creature and waiting for its summoning sickness. This way I could untap with a creature ready to roll. Top's draw ability helped me not miss my land drop a couple times as well.
Unfortunately I didn't draw Elspeth all day and I very much wish that I'd had Pernicious Deed in the board for Elves. Oh well. I'm playing again tomorrow. Good day, sirs.
<3
pernicious deed is very important i noticed, i have gone up to 2 MD and still only 1 SB but thinking of adding another one for sideboard
i am thinking of cutting the engineered plagues in the sideboard for darkblast (which is quite good with divining top, and does actually the same thing in the needed matchups), and i will probably drop duress from my sideboard for more spotremoval, since at my place there is not much combo
sejiri steppe has definitely merited a MD slot now for me, it saved my knight allready so many times from swords, and other targeted removal, its awesome
only thing i would wish for is a evasive beater and more place maindeck^^