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To be honest, this doesn't seem enough. You're not gonna be beating combo without at least 2 Vendilion Clique to carry your deck. Clique in response to Show and Tell has the potential to be devastating. Also, you really want the whole playset of Spell Pierce between your maindeck and sideboard. All this is more important than any white card. I'd cut Terminus and Swords to Plowshares before cutting any Jace in that matchup.
Sry, I forgot I have 2 cliques and 2 spell pierce MDQuote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
You play 1 bridge is the MD? How has that been?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtrix
Also, wouldn't it make sense to have at least 1 wasteland for the occasional soft lock?
Hello all. I think this is my first time posting here, so be gentle. I'm relatively new to Legacy, so I'm just barely getting my feet wet with the format with regards to tournaments. I have a local legacy tournament tomorrow that I am attending, so I don't have much time left to prepare! Here is the list I am currently working with, and I would love to get some feedback.
Maindeck (61)
Spells/Creatures/Stuff (38)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Intuition
3 Spell Pierce
1 Noxious Revival
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands (23)
6 Island
2 Plains
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Riptide Laboratory
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
Sideboard
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Chill
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Terminus
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Path to Exile
1 Blue Elemental Blast
Counterbalance Curve:
1: 15
2: 9
3: 4
4: 3
5: 4
6: 3
I've been testing this for awhile, and it seems to be doing quite well. I really like the Intuition package in here, as I can tailor piles that find exactly what I need with the help of Snapcaster Mage and Noxious Revival. I'm thinking of moving one Vendilion Clique to the board and adding another Intuition to the maindeck. This change is easy and does not disturb my CB Curve.
I had thought about adding a black splash and lingering souls to make intuition even better, but I do not have neither Scrubland nor Underground Sea, and currently I am not in a financial situation to shell out hundreds for more lands. So for now, I'm stuck with a strictly U/W version.
My key questions that I would like answered are as follows:
1. I am new to the Counterbalance strategy, and would like some feedback on my CB Curve. Am I near where I want to be? If not, what numbers on cards would you tweak to shore up my CB Curve? What cards would you take out or suggest that I add to make my CB Curve better?
2. Is running 61 cards Maindeck okay? I really can't think of a card I want to cut. If you were to go to 60 with this list, what would you cut and why?
3. Are my finisher numbers correct (1 EtA, 3 JtMS)? Currently I only own 1 EtA. I am thinking 2 is probably better, but I am having trouble cutting a card to get down to 60. Also, I do not want to shell out another $20-25 for another EtA, especially considering that I think this price is a little high for the amount of play that this card sees. My games usually go long, and I usually win off of Jace ult anyways, not EtA. On that, given that I win most games with Jace, is 4 the correct number for Maindeck? It seems that this forum cannot agree whether 3 or 4 is the correct number Maindeck, however I am leaning towards 4, considering of how amazing the synergy of Jace's brainstorm is with Miracle Control.
4. I typically board in Engineered Explosives in almost every matchup. Should this warrant it having a Maindeck slot, and if so, what should it replace?
5. Finally, is Noxious Revival to "cute" for legacy? It seems strong when I play it, and it always seems to have a big impact on the game, especially considering that I can give it flashback with SCM for big value. It seems great to me, but I am somewhat attached to this card and would like some unbiased opinions on it.
Thanks in advance for your time and assistance. :smile:
Welcome zamerik!!! Things I've seen at first glance:
1. If you're not runnig Ponder, I think 3 SDT are few.
2. Riptide Laboratory is very mana intensive, like SCM and CB+Top combo. Almost everyone is playing with 22 lands.
3. You should get four Flooded Strand and Tundra too.
@Zamerik: I would go -1 CB, +1 Top... and then to add more 2 drops, I would go -1 Spell Pierce, +1 Counterspell.
61 cards isn't terrible. My simpleton understanding is that you have to play some thousand number of games for it to matter.
If I cut 1 card from your list, it'd probably be the Riptide Lab.
3 Sensei's Divining Top
No! -1 Noxious Revival +1 Sensei's Divining Top before anything. Doomsday aside, there has never been a deck that made better use of SDT than this. Play four.
This x100. It works so incredibly well with the deck, I'd want it every handQuote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
On SDT, I will play 4 top when I acquire the 4th. My LGS always seems to run out, but he lets me know when he gets them in. I've bought all 3 from him, so hopefully he will get a 4th soon. I will eventually finish out playsets of Tundras/Flooded Strands, but for now I just cannot afford it. If he doesn't get one soon, I will just break down and order one on-line.
The reason for the inclusion of Riptide Lab was as a "poor man's Karakas." Normally, Karakas would take that slot to perma-bounce Vendilion Cliques into another soft-lock of sorts. I've used the Riptide Lab like this before, and it isn't too bad... just definitely a lot more mana than Karakas. I also like that it can hit snapcasters in a pinch, allowing me to block and return to my hand, then play again for more value! I guess I could cut it and go down to 22 lands/60 total cards. I supposed that I just like playing it on the safe side with that one extra land, hoping that I don't get mana screwed.
On a side note, I haven't read too much on here about including 1 Scroll Rack in the deck. I tested it once, and when it was good it was REALLY GOOD. I would be interested in hearing other opinions.
I really like it. Miracles can easily play around a bridge between Jace and waiting for a lethal Entreat the Angels, so I find the "drawback" to be basically non-existent. Against any creature deck Miracles usually has enough gas to survive the early game, but sometimes can't keep up against a tide of creatures. Having Ensnaring Bridge is a way to buy you a ton of time, since it's an "answer me or lose" card to creature decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maëlig
In particular, bridge is incredibly strong game 1 and can just steal games because most decks just cannot deal with it if it resolves or can't fight through a recursive bridge with ruins. For example, Merfolk, RUG, and even Sneak and Show usually will just lose if you either stick a bridge or Intuition for a recursive bridge with loam/ruins/bridge. These matches can sometimes be tough otherwise, and I believe having access to bridge significantly improves your matches against these decks. For example, a couple weeks ago I played against Merfolk. He had a creature heavy hand, so despite him forcing my Terminus, I Intuitioned for loam/ruins/bridge and he couldn't stop me or kill me before bridge locked him out of the game, so he just lost that game.
There are decks that have outs game 1: Maverick has 2-3 Qasali Pridemage and 4 Green Sun's Zenith to get them, Goblins has Goblin Matron for Tuktuk Scrapper or an equivalent, stoneblade decks tend to also play Jace, Reanimator has Tidespout Tyrant, etc. However, bridge is still great against these decks because bridge really is an "answer me or lose" card. So, unless they happen to have the right cards right when you get a bridge in play, you still tend to buy a bunch of turns with bridge, which is often plenty of time to gain advantages in other ways to be prepared to fight those decks.
You also can make sideboarding a pain, because decks will be forced to bring in answers to bridge, even if those answers don't really have many (if any) relevant targets in your deck. I think Bridge gives you a powerful gameplan with very little drawback. Not sure if I would run it without intuition, but with intuition it definitely gives you a great way to create a quicker soft-lock than EE/ruins with Intuition.
I think wasteland is really underwhelming with Intuition. Sure, it can be nice here and there, but most of the time Wasteland is not a target you want to get (EE, ruins, loam, etc. are usually better). Additionally, you have to sacrifice your draw every turn to get your wasteland back, so even if you can attack their manabase, you won't have a relevant hand anymore. With the power level of most of the cards in this deck, I would feel more comfortable just drawing cards from my deck, rather than slowly wasting somebody down to only their basic lands. Plus, there are very few lands you are actually scared of and want to waste. YOu can already stop opposing Karakases and Academy Ruins through your own using the legend rule.
So...against SneakAttack you cast Intuition on T3 to Loam the Ruins on T4 and to bring back the Bridge and play it on T5? Well.. if the SneakAttack-player didnt kill you until then - youd have won in any way...
Greetings
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Sneak Show doesn't always kill you before turn 5. Sure, sometimes you get turn 1-4 with protection, but not every time. Being that Sneak can kill you on any given turn and Miracles is a slow control deck with a game plan on going long. Getting to 5+ turns is what the deck is going to do anyway. Playing Bridge with Ruins is a fine tactic. The whole "if Sneak didnt kill you by turn 5 then you already won" is false. Granted that Game 1s are not that good and Miracles does not have a clock, but after boarding the match gets harder for Sneak. And any game where Miracles is going to win is not going to be before turn 5 regardless.
Despite the intensive mana costs Intuition set ups are still powerful. For the total cost of 6 mana, Intuition in hand, Ruins in play, and Sensei Top it grabs Bridge and puts it on top of the deck making SnT very Awkward. Or a line with 6 mana,no Ruins or Top, Intuition for: Clique, Snappy(If Pierce/Reb/Fluster in yard), additional counters, Sugar Cookies, bunch of other things in deck depending on the situation. It is a very flexible card.
Intuition also allows for sneaky tricks from the sideboard games 2 and 3, in response to SnT. Grab 3 from Bridge, Drake, Karakas, Sower, Humility.
I agree with the above, if they don't kill you by turn 5, it's not like you've won the game. At any point they can still get a creature into play and still win the game. If they didn't kill you early, then that means you had enough countermagic (or maybe removal) to stop their early attempts, but still need to protect against future attempts to get a big creature into play to kill you.
Sure, with Intuition for a loam/EE/bridge you can't actually get a bridge online until turn 6 (T3 Intuition for loam/ruins/bridge, T4 cast loam to get ruins back, play ruins, T5 put bridge on top of library with ruins, T6 play bridge). So yes, it is very slow against them. However, if you do get to turn 6+ in the game against them, then having bridge gives you a potential way to lock them out of G1 that you wouldn't have had otherwise.
TAlking about the Sneak and Show match, there are any card that can be put into play via Show and tell and stop the activation of Griselbrand to complement Humility?
I think Pithing needle works for that.
Cursed Totem
Pithing Needle
Are probably your best options
But when needle, revoker, O-ring and etc enter the battlefield the Griselbrand controler cant responde the ETB of this cards drawning 7 cards?
Cya
Let's look at the cards...
Pithing Needle
Phyrexian Revoker
Oblivion Ring
Notice for that for needle and revoker they read "as this card enters the battlefield." This means that when these cards come into play, there is no trigger to decide what card they affect. However, Oblivion ring "when this card enters the battlefield," which means that Oblivion Ring triggers when it's already in play, and that trigger then goes on the stack. As such, if we put one of these cards into play under a Show and Tell and our opponent puts a Griselbrand into play....Your opponent won't be able to respond if you put a pithing needle or revoker into play (since choosing the card doesn't use the stack, it just comes into play that way), but for oblivion ring they can activate Griselbrand while the Oblivion Ring trigger is on the stack.
Which sideboard card is best against creature decks?
Meekstone
Humility
Moat
I would prefer Meekstones as I already own a few and could buy a Humility but a Moat is too expensive for me :-)
Thank you for the answer, can you point me the rule about this to me show to the show and tell player from my meta? he dosent beleave in me :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtrix
Cya