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If they wish for a bounce then they need some other gas in hand. If they wish for firemind's foresight to fetch trickbind then they cannot counter the ETB of the card you put via S&T.
That said I think these will be fringe cases: the best thing you can do is drop a resistor and a clock and, in game 2, keep in hand some ETB ability/replacement effect
Bringing MUD to Baltimore this weekend. Wish me luck!
Good luck!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by lukatron2
What list do you play? Forgemaster or stompy?
Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
If they Show & Tell, you drop say Spine and they drop Omniscience, with your Spine trigger on the stack, they can still Firemind's Foresight for Trickbind and Trickbind your Spine Trigger.
Forgemaster with red for welders!Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
What do you guys think of batterskull? I run 4 but maybe 1 is enough? (with godo)
It refers to a previous post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
What I meant is that if they trick the forgemaster ability they cannot counter other EtB abilitiesQuote:
Originally Posted by SirTylerGalt
Godo for batterskull is a powerfull play, but I think batterskull alone is also good becauseQuote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
- it's a beater "immune" to sword to plowshares and mass removal
- it gives value to metalworker and phyrexian revor in late game when you can equip them to turn them in real threats
- it fits perfectly the mana curve since at 5 mana this deck doesn't have many drops (assuming you don't play forgemaster)
Personally I run 2 batterskull, but I think I could fit a third if my meta become more aggro
Ok gotcha. I think that's probably a corner case though. More likely they're going to play Show & Tell before we get a Forgemaster activation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Yeah, I think that too: it was merely speculation but you never know what it may happen ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by Esper3k
Anyway without some resistor I don't think it's possible to win omnihalls, or any combo in general
I brought MUD to my LGS yesterday and went undefeated six games in a row, lost game 1 of the last round, won game 2, and then punted game 3 like a boss to come in 2nd place overall. I played the Stompy version, not the Forgemaster version. I feel it's superior because it doesn't have a fragile line of play that it has to do much of the time to win. Here's my list.
Artifacts
4 Batterskull
3 Grim Monolith
2 Voltaic Key
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Staff of Domination
2 Lightning Greaves
Creatures
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Steel Hellkite
2 Sundering Titan
4 Metalworker
Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Rishadan Port
2 Cavern of Souls
Sorceries
2 All is Dust
Planeswalkers
1 Karn Liberated
Sideboard
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Trinisphere
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Duplicant
2 Spine of Ish Sah
Round 1 vs. Turbo Eldrazi
I face this dude almost every time, often first round. I know what he's playing so I figure I win easily, and I do.
Game 1 I win the die roll and go Ancient Tomb, Chalice for 1 (shutting down a decent part of his hand). I don't remember exact sequencing but he repeals a Staff of Domination at some point, and I play an early Lodestone Golem, waste a Cloudpost and the Vesuva copying it, then play Steel Hellkite. He scoops.
1-0
+1 Duplicant, +2 Spine of Ish Sah, -2 All is Dust, -1 Karn
Game 2 I have a Chalice on 1 and a Metalworker right before his Turn 3 or 4 Show and Tell into Primeval Titan, getting two more Cloudposts to complement the one he has already along with a Tropical Island(he should have gotten Glacial Chasm perhaps but he feared Wasteland again). I put in Duplicant off the SnT (nice titan!). On my turn I attack for 6 and tap Metalworker to play a Wurmcoil Engine and a Steel Hellkite. We both forget about my Chalice on 1 as he plays a Candelabra of Tawnos and makes some mana but he doesn't find an out with his Sensei's Divining Top plus fetching so he scoops again.
Chalice for 1 was insane in this matchup and so was Wasteland. Hello, I'm Captain Obvious. Nice to meet you. My opponent ruefully shook his head as he commented that Turbo Eldrazi is the only Legacy deck he has and I am his nemesis because I always bring a deck that is good against it (Reanimator, Elves, MUD...).
2-0 2-0
Round 2 vs. WRB Burn/Midrange? I'm not really sure.
Game 1 his Goblin Guide gets me two extra lands as he throws burn at my face and gets out a Vexing Devil and a Deathrite Shaman as well. I stabilize with Batterskull and Lodestone Golem after wasting him twice.
1-0
I saw him put in Stony Silence against the other MUD deck that was there, so I'm like oh God this could be annoying.
+2 Spine of Ish Sah, +3 Trinisphere, -2 All is Dust, -1 Karn, -1 Sundering Titan? I forget
Game 2 He goes land, pass. I go Tomb Chalice for 1. He plays Stony Silence Turn 2. It doesn't matter because I have a City of Traitors and another land so I drop Batterskull with another in hand and he scoops. I also had Trinisphere and attacked his manabase which was awesome. I felt like this guy scooped too easily a lot but whatever.
2-0
It's a good thing most of our lands aren't artifacts as well haha. Stony Silence was useless. Batterskull was MVP of course since I didn't see Wurmcoil Engine.
2-0 4-0
Round 3 vs. Esper Stoneblade
Game 1 my opponent wins the die roll but mulls to five. He is forced (get it? har har) to counter a Chalice on 1, pitching Jace, the Mind Sculptor (Awesome). I play some lands, he plays some lands and Stoneforge Mystic getting Batterskull. I trump it with an uncounterable Wurmcoil Engine courtesy of Cavern of Souls naming Wurm. Then I do it again. It's over at this point but he doesn't scoop yet. He does when I drop Lodestone Golem after he Mystics again for Jitte and blocks a Wurmcoil Engine with everything he has, leaving me with four creatures to his zero.
1-0
-2 All is Dust, - 1 Karn, +3 Trinisphere
Game 2 his first turn Thoughtseize takes my Chalice but I draw another one and set it to 1. I land Wurmcoil Engine and he O-Rings it. He gets Mystic fetching Jitte I think. I play Lodestone Golem and combine that with Rishadan Port and a Wasteland to prevent him from playing his Jace. I play Lightning Greaves as well. The turn after, I play Metalworker, give it greaves, play Batterskull, give it haste and attack for 9, then switch greaves back to Lodestone Golem. He knows I also have Trinisphere in hand because I revealed it with Metalworker. He's done.
2-0
The combo of Lodestone Golem, Wasteland, and Rishadan Port was great. Wurmcoil Engine was a house.
3-0 6-0
Round 4 vs. BUG Control
Game 1 He has counters for everything I do, Hymn to Tourach, and Jace. I get wrecked.
0-1
-2 All is Dust (for some reason), -1 Karn (for some reason), +3 Trinisphere I think
Game 2 He has some discard and counters. I have Chalice on 1. He drops Liliana of the Veil on an empty board and I'm like shit, but I draw Wurmcoil Engine and play it with Cavern of Souls protection. He edicts me and the wurm tokens kill Liliana. I drop Lodestone Golem and kill him.
1-1
He wants to draw but I want to play. We're both undefeated and the difference between first and second place is a single pack so I mean really let's just play.
-2 Staff of Domination, +2 Phyrexian Revoker
Game 3 was hilariously misplayed on my part, although he made a mistake Turn 1 that actually sealed my fate. He went Turn 1 Pithing Needle naming Metalworker, which you may notice is completely useless. However, I had a brain fart and forgot about the whole "doesn't affect mana abilities" part so I assumed Metalworker was shut off. DERP! This mistake cost me the game eventually. I had the Metalworker/Staff combo in my opener and mana to play around Daze, plus other goodies. D'oh! Anyway, I draw some lands and play them along with a Grim Monolith. He counters a couple threats and drops Jace AND Liliana. He then gets Life from the Loam active with Wasteland, which eventually wrecks my shit despite the fact that he keeps leaving Darksteel Citadels on top when fate sealing for some reason. It doesn't matter because when he Counterspells my Thran Dynamo and Maelstrom Pulses my Monolith, I'm left with three Citadels and no other mana, with Jace at 11 and Liliana ticking up as well. I scoop.
1-2
It sucked because I would have won easily if I had played correctly. He admitted that he had no answer to Turn 1 or 2 Metalworker --> Staff or Metalworker --> double Wurmcoil Engine, either of which I could have done. :(
3-1 7-2
Needless to say, my last round opponent won the tournament and I got 2nd place. I opened an Obzedat in one of my packs and nothing else remotely good. Still, I felt that I had the strongest deck in the room, the event was an absolute blast to play in, and my girlfriend was there as well piloting my Reanimator deck, so the day was excellent overall. We all make mistakes sometimes.
Thanks for reading!
TL;DR MUD Stompy kicks ass.
-Tom
Hadn't been able to play Legacy in a few weeks and got a chance to again this weekend, so I dusted off MUD and went to battle with robots and their cold metal hands. I got the last 2 foily Batterskulls I needed for the tweaks I had been playing around with so I was happy to be able to give this baby a try.
Here's my current list (pretty much stolen from Zirath):
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
3 [M12] Buried Ruin
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [MPR] Wasteland
4 [EX] City of Traitors
// Creatures
4 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
4 [WWK] Lodestone Golem
3 [UD] Metalworker
// Spells
4 [UL] Grim Monolith
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
2 [NPH] Karn Liberated
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [M11] Voltaic Key
4 [ARC] Thran Dynamo
3 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [ROE] All Is Dust
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
SB: 1 [NPH] Batterskull
SB: 1 [ROE] All Is Dust
SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 [US] Smokestack
SB: 2 [MI] Cursed Totem
SB: 2 [MM] Crumbling Sanctuary
Only 16 players, but that's still pretty decent for a weekly Legacy tournament! 4 rounds swiss, cut to Top 4.
Round 1 - vs RUG)
Nice thing about having a small meta is a that you generally know what most people are on. Nice thing about having a pretty good collection and changing decks every week is that they don't necessarily know what you're on :)
Game 1: I lose the die roll and he leads off with Trop into Mongoose. I have a good hand mixture of lands, ramp, and bombs. My first mana ramp spell gets countered, but my next one makes it through and I start dropping Batterskulls. After the second one gets down, he scoops 'em up.
-4 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Crumbling Sanctuary
+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Batterskull
Normally, I don't like to leave in Voltaic Keys against blue decks, but in this matchup, since we pretty much win if we resolve Batterskull or Wurmcoil against them, we need to focus more on mana than increasing our bomb density.
Game 2: T1 Mongoose comes down and starts picking at me. He's pretty much holding a handful of counterspells because no more creatures come down during the next few turns. I bait out a Force with a Chalice @ 1. Grim Monolith eats another Force, sweet! Crucible makes it down next turn and I know he's out of countermagic. He drops a 'goyf which speeds up his clock considerably, so I play Monolith, eat Goyf damage for a turn, and drop a Wurmcoil next turn with Daze mana up. Wurmcoil draws a frown town and my next turn Lodestone + Wastelands quickly lock him out of the game.
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - vs MUD
Hah the mirror! My buddy is pretty much playing the same main, but our sideboards are pretty different.
Game 1: I win the die roll, but open into a potential T2 Karn hand. However, I didn't want to auto lose to Revoker, so I slow roll it to T3 and Karn his Metalworker, prompting a scoop.
-1 All Is Dust
-4 Chalice of the Void
+1 Karn Liberated
+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Batterskull
+2 Cursed Totem (since I'm on the draw, he'll have the chance to get down Metalworker first and I need to make sure I can answer it).
Game 2: We both ramp up Monoliths into Thran Dynamos. However, he has more ramp + Lodestone Golem while I answer with double Wurmcoil Engine. Ouch.
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3 - vs Burn
Game 1: He gets down a Goblin Guide, then a Keldon Maurader. My Lodestone Golem eats his Goblin Guide and I drop a Batterskull. He has just enough mana to Price, then Fireblast me for lethal. Ouch.
-1 All Is Dust
-2 Karn Liberated
-4 Phyrexian Revoker
+2 Crumbling Sanctuary
+4 Sphere of Resistance
+1 Batterskull
Game 2: I get down a Wurmcoil along with Chalice @ 1 and Chalice @ 2. However, he gets down a Sulfuric Vortex so I'm not gaining life off the Wurmcoil. I have him at 11 with only lands and I punt when I hit him with both my Wurmcoil and Mishra's Factory. I'm at 8 life and he plays Hellspark Elemental (it gets countered), unearths it, swing for 3, Fireblast me and Sulfuric Vortex kills me on my upkeep. If I had left back the Mishra's Factory, I could've blocked the Hellspark and it wouldn't have affected my clock on him. Argh, but deserved. Nothing teaches you like brutally being punished for your mistakes!
2-1 (4-2)
Round 4 - vs Merfolk
Game 1: I win the die roll and lead off with Ancient Tomb into Monolith (resolves). He T1 Aether Vials. I draw Chalice and drop Voltaic Key into Chalice @ 1. He drops a Silvergill revealing Silvergill. Ugh. I get down a Wurmcoil Engine and he is sad. On his turn, he drops Silvergill. I swing in with Wurmcoil, he vials in a Lord and trades both Silvergills for my Wurmcoil. Lord + Standstill comes down. I break the Standstill with All Is Dust, which gets Forced, but it then clears the way for my Batterskull. More Lords come down. Deathtouch Wurm token gets suited up with a Batterskull and he goes to frown town. He eventually deals with that token, but the Batterskull on the Lifelink token goes the distance.
-2 Karn Liberated
+1 Batterskull
+1 All Is Dust
Game 2: I go T1 Key, T2 Monolith (Forced). He goes T2 Lord, then on his T3, he smirks and windmill slams down Energy Flux. I let my Key die and drop a Metalworker. He taps out to play a Merrow Reejerey and attacks me. I eat damage and untap, pay for my Metalworker and activate it showing Chalice, Key, Lodestone, Dynamo and have 1 card remaining in my hand. I drop Key, untap Metalworker and make assloads of mana. I lead off with Lodestone and it gets Forced, pitching his last card. I then reveal the last card in my hand... All Is Dust! Sad times for the fish men. I then get down Chalice @ 2 and Chalice @ 3 and slowly beat him to death with a Mishra's Factory. He goes on uber tilt when I play a Batterskull and he Dazes... *point to Chalice @ 2*. I attack with the Batterskull and he pays 4 life to Dismember it... *point to Chalice @ 3*.
3-1 (6-2)
We chop in the T4 and go home.
I have noticed All is dust becoming more populair in MUD deck lists,
i splash red in my list for magus and bonfire. In case of running red wich card is better as a sweeper allisdust or bonfire?
A benefit of bonfire is that it can be used as a alternate finisher if you have the mana, while all is dust is just very lethal in gaining the upper hand. I do play karn liberated 2x for removing permanents.. what do you think?
Well, given that I'm playing a mono brown list, I like All Is Dust more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Even then, I still like it more since you're not going to consistently be able to Miracle the Bonfire when you want, making it much less castable.
Plus, All Is Dust is yet another way to get rid of pesky enchantments or planeswalkers.
Karn is good for exileing ensnaring bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Without Karn, Ensnaring Bridge is an auto-loss for the most part. I boarded out All is Dust every time last tournament, which is strange because I love that card. It's devastating. I would never use red. Magus turns off all of the abilities that make our lands better than other decks' lands, and if people think Metalworker is bad because it's a removal magnet, Goblin Welder is much worse. Usually if you untap with Metalworker, you win. This is not the case with Welder.
This is why I do not mind Forgemaster. If you need to, you can Forgemaster for Spine of Ish Sah.
Yeah, I wouldn't cut Karn Liberateds for more All Is Dusts. I was pretty happy with the 2/1 split main and the 1/1 split in the board to shift in either direction post board.
Often playing a magus of the moon is a win. So who cares that it makes your tomb a regular mountain? And hes a human like godo so cavern of souls is nice on human in my deck..Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
But more often it's not. Only against the greediest manabases is it ever even possibly an auto win. Here's a list of decks against which Magus has no or almost no effect whatsoever:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Elves, Death and Taxes, Merfolk, Goblins, all Show and Tell variants, Storm a lot of the time, Belcher, MUD mirrors, Mono anything, Miracles...
Even against RUG, the deck with the greediest manabase, they have so much red burn that they'll just kill him and move on. Even BUG can float mana in response and Decay him. Esper can float a white and Swords him or whatever. Maverick has basics and removal and Knight of the Reliquary can fetch them even if you land Magus and they have none. Or they could GSZ for Knight. Anything with basics and removal doesn't really care. Many people don't fetch till it's necessary anyway. And he can still be countered unless you have a Cavern, although that's not an argument against running him.
Basically, I feel the colorless version of MUD is more consistent and stronger because it's still possible to have red cards and no red mana source, and I feel loading up on better cards like Wurmcoil Engine and Steel Hellkite is better than using Magus and Welder because the latter two are situationally good only.