Barbarian Ring also pushes through an Eidolon lock, if you are at 1 or 2 life and need a bit more to win. The same cannot be said of Exquisite Firecraft.
Printable View
Barbarian Ring also pushes through an Eidolon lock, if you are at 1 or 2 life and need a bit more to win. The same cannot be said of Exquisite Firecraft.
Understood; but don't entirely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaser
I've played with barbarian ring (ranging from 1-4) and I've found in great in certain circumstances. E.g. Stuck with miracles on 1 life, counter-top lock, it is awesome.
But there are serious downsides.
Imagine an opening 7:
Barbarian ring, lightning bolt x2, goblin guide, Chain lightning, grim lavamancer, price of progress.
Do you keep?
You don't know what they're playing, and you're on the play.
Let's say you keep.
You play your barbarian ring. you play goblin guide.
Their turn. Wasteland.
Your turn. You draw a non-land. You're now in top-deck mode, desperately needing a land.
It can turn awesome hands into terrible hands because of wasteland. I think it has it's place for sure, but I want to be clear that it's not as clear cut as just taking an extra 3 or so damage from it, but otherwise no downsides.
Agreed, and we are exchanging power for stability/consistency by including nonbasics. I think 1 copy is perfectly fine, however. 2 or more is pushing it and opening the deck up to WastelandQuote:
Originally Posted by optml
I play only one barb ring and I find it's perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaser
My current mana base is:
8 fetch
10 Mountain
1 Ring
I quite like it, feels "right" to me but to each their own of course. I completely understand some wanting to run 2-3 Barb rings (4 really feels like too many tho) but I'm not willing to sacrifice the consistency or the extra damage for the edge cases where someone is at 1 life and I'm locked out of the game. Generally, if I'm locked out it's over well before that, but I do like having the singleton available and I've even tried going up to 2 but I ended up cutting the second one over time.
IMO; I'd just go copy lists that topped a year ago.
The meta should be ripe for it while everyone is getting used to things again; and Burn was a real deck last june or so.
I like that composition personally, although I'm testing 9/9/1 as opposed to 8/10/1.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk
IFF your meta contains an unreasonable amount of Miracles, then the second in the board is justified. I still wouldn't go more than one maindeck.
I top 16'd the PIQ today. Cast many bolts. Here is my list.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=92685
Creatures (10)
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Lands (20)
7 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Barbarian Ring
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
Spells (30)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
3 Searing Blaze
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Pyroblast
1 Smash to Smithereens
3 Exquisite Firecraft
Top was awesome everytime I drew it, The 3 rings did real work. Anyone wants a list of my matches I can give em..
I started 0-2 and then rattled off 5-0 to get a sweet 100$ and 3 open points.
Excellent news for the burn community! I'm glad to hear this is still a viable Magic strategy! How's the learning curve with this build?
Initially, pretty straight-forward. Conceptually, all the deck is really about is trying to count to 20 the quickest way possible, through aggressive creatures and cheap burn spells (which can also act as removal). So, in a goldfish scenario, the deck is very easy to play. The main point in learning how to play Burn as a beginner, is to learn how to properly sequence your spells. The other main point in testing as a beginner pilot is to figure out which build of Burn you want to play. Test both the Swiftspear and the Divining Top/Barbarian Ring builds, to see which one of those you prefer to play with. While they have a similar gameplan, the Swiftspear version is typically more aggressive (with less ability to lpay a controlling match-up), and the Divining Top builds are typically more controlling, at the expense of about a half-turn of tempo.Quote:
Originally Posted by biglongjohns
Once an opponent is involved in this equation, it gets quite a fair bit harder. While the concept remains the same, there are a few lines that inexperienced Burn players take which lose them the game. Usually, these mistakes involve either firing Burn spells out of sequence, or not accomodating for hand/board position when casting spells. Knowing when to play around Daze/Spell Pierce (as well as knowing when to bait out a Daze/Spell Pierce) is pretty important, as well as a reasonable knowledge of how stack interaction works (very important when playing against Miracles) are good skills to have. Being able to analyse board states effectively will allow you to make the best decision on whether or not a Burn spell needs to be used as a removal spell, or if you have time to let your opponent keep their creature.
Niche interactions tend to occur when playing against fast Combo decks, where the serious decision of "Do I have enough time for Goblin Guide to swing through?" is made. As a general rule, if you think you'll live long enough to crack through twice, then cast Goblin Guide. Otherwise, if you think your opponent is going to cast Ad Nauseum when they untap, then it's generally better to cast a Lightning Bolt. Same rule applies when thinking about suspending Rift Bolt.
Probably best thing to do as a potential Burn pilot is to read articles about the deck, as well as watch some videos of SCG pilots playing the deck. Anything by Patrick Sullivan is pretty good, as well as watching this match between Austin Yost (Burn) and Yuta Takahashi (Miracles) for some analysis on how to play against Miracles. Mike Flores' "Who's the Beatdown?" article is a good classic to look at in terms of how to play against Aggro and Tempo decks as a Burn pilot.
While nowhere close to giving a proper analysis on the deck (or how to pick it up), I feel like this is a good starting guide.
I lost in the finals of a 20/25 people event with burn. Since i didn't have time to tune a list, i just decided to use patrick sullivan's last take on legacy burn : http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ew-Jersey.html
The only change i made was +1 smash to smithereens -1 searing blood in sideboard. I was a bit skeptical about 4x maindeck searing blaze, as well as other minor things (4x flame rift in side seems a bit of a waste), but he is better than me so i didn't want to change too much.
Round 1 against Miracles : 0-2. i lose the first game because i have double searing blaze in hand with no targets, and lose the second game because he assembles top+counterbalance very quickly. Sideboard : -4 searing Blaze -2 lava spike +2 sulfuric vortex +4 flame rift. Blaze is an obvious cut, lava spike gets axed because 1 cost spells become irrelevant when he has the lock, even more if they are sorceries because you can't respond to him looking at 3 cards or putting top on his library.
Round 2 against B/G Pox : easy win 2-0. he has a lot of discard that can be problematic, and smallpox destroying lands can sometimes get you, but overall this deck doesn't have a way to close the game quickly (the only win condition i saw was bloodghast) and you are going to eventually kill him in topdeck mode. Sideboard: -4 searing blaze +4 flame rift
Round 3 against jeskai delver : 2-0. I win the first game managing to kill him the turn after he hardcasts batterskull (i killed two stoneforges before). Then the second game is the best of the day: i side out all my creatures(plus something else) because he plays swords to plowshares + bolt and side in 15 cards. At some point i cast ensnaring bridge, he can't counter it and is a bit worried. Then i cast a second bridge and he is very worried. then i cast my third bridge and i know he will never have 3 ways to kill artifacts in his deck so his only out is burning me out. In the end i have like 10 lands in play and have fun hardcasting fireblasts during his upkeep. He suicides himself with a bolt because he has no outs :)
Round 4 against Grixis with delver/deathrite/anglers: 2-1. These were very close games, because two times he has a fast start with delver and early angler, that beat me once but the other time i can fireblast him for lethal the turn before he kills me and he has no force of will. Side: +4 searing blood, -4 eidolon on the draw, -1 fireblast -3 lava spike on the play (i like shaving 1 fireblast when i don't have clear cards to cut because drawing two is often bad).
Round 5 i am the only one at 9 points that gets paired down so i can't draw in. the positive aspect is that if i win i will be on the play in all top8 matches. Against esper deathblade 2-1. Game 1 i mull to six keep a one lander and never draw a second land.... Game 2 i have a turn three win , game 3 at some point my hand is double searing blaze and double searing blood, i know he has batterskull in hand but no creatures in play. If he casts batterskull i can double searing blood the token, but this plan fails against one counterspell. i feel like i'm going to lose but fortunately he starts deploying other things (stoneforge, meddling mage naming price of progress, deathrite shaman) because he has no force of will and, since i am not playing anything, he feels like i have smash to smithereens in hand. Of course i kill all his small dorks and finally kill him. Sideboard: +2-3 searing blood + 3 smash to smithereens + 2 sulfuric vortex -some combination of creatures/fireblast/lava spikes depending on play or draw.
Quarterfinals against Jund 2-0. He is the only person i didn't see play so i don't know what i am facing. He starts with a badlands and i'm happy because it is probably jund. I get him to 3 relatively easy but then brick on a lot of drawsteps because he has liliana and i have searing blazes.Liliana eats my hand and he is almost able to turn the corner with deathrite shaman lifegain but i finally topdeck a burn spell to kill him. game 2 is even easier, the only relevant interaction is him abrupt decaying his own shaman to "counter" my searing blood. he never cast a goyf or hymn to tourach which are the only cards that can save him against burn. sideboard +4 flame rifts + some searing blood -Eidolons and guides
Semifinals against Grixis with delver deathrite angler AND pyromancer. 2-1. Very close games again, i guess the matchup against grixis is just like this because they can have a fast clock + soft counters (like RUG). Game 1 i flood out but fortunately he has no answers for my sulfuric vortex that wins the game. Game 2 i decide not to kill his turn 1 shaman with abolt because i have double searing blaze, and this costs me the game because he kept a one lander that manages to barely kill me in the end. Game 3 i mull to six, i have one lavamancer and when i scry i see grim lavamancer on top. i think about it for a long time and in the end i decide to keep in on top, reason being, if he kills my first lavamancer i am in bad shape because i mulled and he totally blanked one of my cards, while if he doesn't kill him having a second one is not great but not terrible either. In the last turns he is at 2 life with an army of pyromancer tokens and i still have both my lavamancers but only one card in the graveyard. i decide to attack with one lavamancer: if he blocks it i kill him with the other one because now i have two cards in the yard, but it is a risky play if he has a bolt or stifle (he played stifle). He just doesn't block and goes to one, fortunately a very clear sign that he doesn't have anything, then the following turn i draw mountain again, i am forced to make the same attack and win. Some people thought i shouldn't have done that play in the first place, because i was not in danger of dying immediately and could just wait to draw a burn spell, but i was afraid of him doing something like cast jitte equip it kill both your lavamancers and then win if you don't topdeck a burn spell immediately. In the end even if he has an answer i can just still topdeck a burn spell in a couple turns, and ultimately i was happy to have made that attack because after winning i looked at the top of my library and there were 3 lands in a row. sideboard same as round 4
Finals against miracles, the guy of the first round.
First game i feel favored even when he assembles countertop because i have price of progress rift bolt fireblast sulfuric vortex and he is at a low life total, making it unlikely that he can counter all my cards that have different costs and win. Well, in a couple turns i threaten to kill him three times but he just have 3 force of wills + 3 blue cards to pitch. Can't beat that shit.
Second game i resolve a vortex and feel pretty good again, but then draw only lands and he outraces me with two snapcaster mages XD
Well, it was a good event, i had fun and the meta was fantastic for burn, with a lot of greedy manabases delver decks and only one combo player with show and tell/hive mind, one death and taxes that can be difficult and 2-3 miracles.
I only lost against miracles and, while i think it was also due to variance, i will probably use some tech next time (don't play 4 blazes maindeck, add 1-2 barbarian rings to the manabase, maybe cut the flame rifts in sideboard for 4 exquisite firecrafts). I think firecraft really makes you favored in the matchup because they can't really do anything about it except discarding it with vendilion clique, and it's not easy at all for them to keep their life total higher than 4, or even 8 because you could reasonably draw 2 firecrafts if the game goes long.
I literally just cast bolts in the correct order then priced my opponent. There was one game where my decisions were super important, and I won because my opponent didnt know what my cards did. I dont want to sell the deck sort but it was pretty simple compared to my history with Landstill and Maverick.
Honestly, while every deck has some degree of complexity to them, Burn does deserve its "beginner deck" moniker. It wins a lot off randomly just casting spells and winning without meaningful interaction and unlike with most combo decks, single mistakes aren't that heavily punished and the deck doesn't want to mulligan if at all possible to avoid. In essence, it's a "simple combo deck", but it gets more complex vs. interactive opponents of course, and games are condensed enough that bad choices can get punished anyways. Still, experienced players gain a lot of percentages especially against Countertop, Tempo decks and creature-based combo (e.g. Elves), since those are the match-ups where sequencing and constantly calculating the race and picking burn targets becomes critical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon
One question, do you feel Top is better than e.g. Cursed Scroll, Shrine of Burning Rage or in general, any singleton artifact that would directly contribute to your opponent's demise? I can appreciate manipulating the draws but it doesn't feel mana-efficient at all and while Top does have "1: Cycle" (if the game is ending before the next turn), I don't feel convinced it's as synergistic with the gameplan as some other potential options.
Guys, try Exquisite Firecraft.
It's epic.
I know the pros / cons have been discussed to death on this thread, but I would guess that the people against the card haven't tested it.
It's amazing. Fact.
Last couple of weeks I've replaced my shushers in the sideboard with 2, then up to 3 and now looking for a 4th. They are never a dead draw, and although can clog up your opening hand you should have enough 1-2 mana stuff in your deck that it doesn't slow you down too much.
They make people who expect them become totally paranoid about letting any other counterable spells get through, for fear of uncounterable ones later. So you can make them play sub-optimally.
I've won games with firecrafts reliably against miracles counter-top locks, 4C Delver with a heavy counter-spell hand, when they let through a bolt (which brings them down to 4 life) so they can counter whatever you have next. Play Firecraft as your last spell(s) of the game, and push through.
I can't emphasise enough; I think it will take burn to the next level.
Buy them before they shoot up in price like Goblin Guides have. Yes; I think they are as game-changing for burn as freakin' Guides!
I'm going to go a step further with my prediction.
I think Miracles will start bringing in Rest in Peace specifically to deal with Firecraft.
Mark my words...
just wondering, is this card that much better than urza’s rage?
Well, since the kicker cost is impossible to pay for, 4 damage vs 3 damage is much more important than instant vs sorcery.
Also i wouldn't expect firecraft to raise in price because it is not particularly good in modern burn, where it really needed to be instant speed to be fantastic against splinter twin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
I like top a lot.
I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle Hopkins
I'm currently using
2 Searing Blood
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
vs Omni-Tell I board in the bridges and pillars but most of the time it's hopeless.
Any other guess?
You need 2-3 smash to smithereens against equipments. the fact is, the sideboard of burn cannot cover all problems because we don't have versatile answers (counterspells, discard) nor deck manipulation that let us play things as 2 of and reliably see them. So we have to play at least 3 of and decide to not prepare at all for some matchups. If you know the metagame this is easier. In an unknown metagame i think is mandatory to play:
- 3 sulfuric vortex between main and side (just too good against some decks like miracles, equipments, anything that doesn't easily answer enchantments)
- at least 6 searing effects between main and side. What is supposed to do an opponent with delver, deathrite shaman, stoneforge mystic, young pyromancer (not to mention tribal decks and death and taxes) .... when you just can kill all their creatures while burning their face? I am actually a fan of playing 8 searing effects.
- 3 smash to smithereens: equipments can be a problem, chalice of the void has to be destroyed.
I would also play ensnaring bridge that is good against sneak and show, reanimator, rug and uwr delver + random decks. i think pyrostatic pillar can be avoided because storm and omnitell shouldn't be that popular and anyway you have eidolon maindeck. Then you have to choose if you want grave hate or something that makes miracles easier. Nowadays i would always choose 4 firecraft over grave hate.... in the end, reanimator will always be horrible even post sideboard.
I don't think they'll go up, there's just not enough demand especially after Standard rotates but you're right that they're good. I too replaced my Shusher's with them. Because of being uncounterable they are in many ways more scary than Fireblast is.Quote:
Originally Posted by optml
Also, with Firecraft there's always the chance of living the dream which I've pulled off once. I cast Firecraft with 1 spell in the graveyard, my opponent pitches a card to FoW it, and in response I cast Lightning Bolt to hit them for 3 and turn on Spell Mastery fizzling the FoW. Grim Lavamancer is good for setting up that particular trap.