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You *can* do that. But only if you're running Jitte, and methods to protect your guys, both of which he runs. In that case, Jitte becomes far more impressive. However, personally, I find Cursed Scroll to be preferable, especially when topdecking, you can find a threat which is hard for an opponent to remove(compared to a creature).Quote:
Originally Posted by feuerizer
I think I went through this in great detail here a while back (perhaps it was TMD?) but here's an abriged version. You cast smallpox when you think that it will take out a greater percentage of your opponent's resources than your resources. You just blew up a land? Maybe killing that one and his creature will put him too severely under his curve to recover for a few turns. He just played an expensive creature? Set his ass back 2 turns. Holding sh*t? Might as well pitch it and get some stuff blown up along the way. It works rather well against thresh like decks as well as it both kills mongese and gets around sac-land defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holo_rip
I'd like to add that when testing Deadguy for the GP, I settled on Smallpox as extra copies of Sinkhole for use in the Flash matchup, as well as a devastating card against Fish. We realized from testing that Smallpox is going to work best if you are running very few creatures (11-13) where you would want to go to work on their hand and manabase first. After you've exhausted the control role, or you have gained a significant amount of control over the game, you can drop a beater like Shade and ride him all the way. This strategy meant that I was never killing anything outside of my own land and a card in hand, which was pretty convenient given that I run a lot of lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
OK, so with the few feedback about smallpox, i'm gonna test it.
but what shall i cut ?
at the moment i run the same list as hummingbird TG. maybe those verdict ?
Holo.
Has anyone really bothered to test the route of going with discard over ld with the original predominant black build? I've wanted to try this build in the current meta simply because vindicate and jotun grunt seem alot stronger with tarmogoyf running around:
//14 creatures:
4 dark confidant
4 hypnotic specter
3 nantuko shade
3 jotun grunt
//22 spells:
4 duress
4 hymn to tourach
3 gerrard's verdict
4 swords to plowshares
3 vindicate
4 engineered plague
//24 mana:
4 dark ritual
4 scrubland
4 polluted delta
3 bloodstained mire
1 tainted field
8 swamp
sideboard:
1 jotun grunt
3 darkblast
4 diabolic edict
4 orim's chant
3 powder keg
I like the idea of keeping white as a splash simply because shade is so strong in a deck like this. The main deck plagues are there simply to let you beat goblins and answer empty the warrens. I can't think of how this kind of build would have good game against goblins without them maindecked and I think that's important. Keg in the board seems strong as an additional answer to etw and a great card along with edict against aggro control. Orim's chant is obviously very strong against fast combo and the darkblasts give you a boost against goblins and random. I'm not sure if this would be very good but it seems to have a lot of strong answers to the newer decks. The blasts could also be cursed scrolls but I like how the dredging can help feed grunt against decks like goblins that really don't fill their yard very quickly (although the 7 hymns do help that along).
Nitewolf: I like that list a lot, but I'd heavily suggest including Cursed Scrolls in your sideboard somewhere. That's a really bad list against control due to only fourteen threats, three of which go away on their own.
Taco: Yes, I agree that the threat density leaves much to be desired against control; even though squeezing them in the maindeck just doesn't seem like it's going to work I think they would be fine over the darkblasts in the board.
This is a two part question for all the guys who play Deadguy Ale
1) How long, on average, does Jotun Grunt last because of the upkeep in the Deadguy Ale deck?
2) Does he completely hose down Thresh/Termagoyf or do you need to further add more graveyard hate in addition to him?
In average, i would say that we can block / attack with him thing like 3 time.
if you run a version with STP or creature removal, thus you don't need more graveyard hate in my opinion/experience. The only real problem is a threshed goos, and we can handle it with grunt/shade.
Holo.
Thanks for the detail reply Holo
1.) 4 or 5 turns. Play him smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team-Hero
2.) It depends on how well you disrupted the opponent before you dropped the grunt. If the answer is "completely", he's the ideal nail in the coffin. If the answer is "somewhat", he can, if not removed, just outright win the game, once again, play him smart. If the answer is "not at all", he didn't resolve and you're playing the deck wrong. That being said, three copies of grunt is enough graveyard hate for this deck if he gets played right; hell, if you play it right you can win easily without him.
On Smallpox, I would like to mention that whenever I play him just to pitch junk, the junk card is usually another Smallpox.
On Threshold and Jotun grunt, you don't need to run any other hate cards. Other than Dystopia. Dystopia with Grunt(or, for that matter, without Grunt), creates incredible tempo for you against Threshold.
At the moment i've done thing like 6 / 7 match with smallpox, and well, i'm a little bit disapointed. Al the time that i handle an smallpox in my hand, i've never cast it.
i think that i'll go with two E.Plague instead of smallpox, and 3 main deck STP (21 land and no gerrard's verdict).
About gerrard, i don't like this cast, duel, cost two and it let your opponent choose what to discard. Eveng if casted on yourself for life gain, i've always find it weak, and i prefere MD STP, wich can deal with opponent creature, as well of gaing life STPing our creature. and finally, it is a way to handle our own Confidant when we're low on life.
Holo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holo_rip
I agree that Smallpox would be horrible in this deck. Our threat count isn't that high as it is, so I find I would rather keep my Nantuko Shade or some other fatty on the table than sacrificing him to my own Small Pox. Generally speaking, we aren't going to have a huge "army" of creatures out during most games. It generally goes rape your hand, fuck up your mana, drop 1-2 dudes and beat away backed up by more removal and disruption. I just don't see Smallpox having a place in this deck.
As for Gerrard's Verdict, it is really a metagame choice. It only shines against burn, because that is an AWFUL matchup for us. But since burn isn't that dominant in any meta, I think it would be safe to cut Verdict. Also, even with Gerrard's Verdict, it is still very possible to crumble to burn anyways. If your meta is full of burn, I would just go with Descendant of Kiyomaro. He is a hoss when you lay him down, just be sure you can get to double white first. That's the only issue with him.
Gerrard's Verdict also shines against CRET Belcher, or other Belcher too, assuming you can get to cast it. All their cards in hand are equally important as they have no draw...
Also, on removing LD: If I do remove LD, what I would add to the MD isn't StP. I would personally favor running Unmask, to save our sorry CRET Belcher matchup; it's just too fast for our disruption to affect it(save for Duress...)
Also, no Dystopia in the board? It's saved em plenty a game against White or Green critters, where Deadguy normally dies to masses of critters.
At the moment i run 3 dystopia SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
CRET belcher isn't that played in my meta, that's why i prefer to go with STP. My meta is full of aggro and aggro/control, and this is the reason why i run STP.
My SB is :
1 jotun
2 pithing needle
3 serenity
2 engineered plague (2 MD)
4 chalice of the void
3 dystopia
Holo.
Ah. But I must mention my Dystopia comment was on nitewolf9, who posted an LD-less build without Dystopia in the board.
Also, if you face so much Aggro/AggroControl, why not more StP?
I love dystopia and run it in Red Death as a mandatory slot in the board. Problem is you run Jotun grunt, and this deck also does not abuse tempo as well as traditional suicide style decks (which is why I feel the LD is weaker; you give your opponent too much time to recover). My build tries to bury them in card advantage and keep their hand destroyed. Dystopia is a great card but I think diabolic edict may be stronger in this deck. The grunt issue may not be a big one but it would probably come up a few times. With swords AND vindicate AND diabolic edict AND powder keg AND tons of discard it would be hard for decks like thresh to keep a threat on the board.
just because i can't fill more card in the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
About a board sweeper like keg, why not ? i've never try to run a real bord sweeper in such a deck.
what should be the best ?
Keg, E.Explosive ? anything else ?
Holo.
You of course do assume we cannot put away the opponent fast enough. That is a fallacy. Sure, we do not have the speed of Red Death, but with Jotun Grunts and Nantuko Shades, we can put the game away in 3-4 turns, or at least put yourself in a position where you are most likely to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9