Cool stuff! I kind of like ballista as a four off since redundant pieces doubble as (very expensive) removal. At least that's more than emrakul does in your hand. Problem is we can be needled/nullroded now.
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Cool stuff! I kind of like ballista as a four off since redundant pieces doubble as (very expensive) removal. At least that's more than emrakul does in your hand. Problem is we can be needled/nullroded now.
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Ok I'm testing this tomorrow. But eventhough I like it's straightforwardness I can't give up combo MU. I'll run clique + 2 thoughtseize in addition to FOWs.
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Congrats for the win ! Looked like it worked well for you, but didn't you wish sometimes some of your Ballistas in hand were Trinket mages instead ? or were you just happy to play the full set and use some of them as creature removal ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
Same deck, same player, same list, another Top 8! Seems like a solid deck atm
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14764&f=LE
Also noteworthy that just judging from the Top8, he had to battle through more than just a random field. There's a couple of guys with multiple BoM Top8s and even wins in that Top8.
There were no Top 8 games, just 6 rounds of swiss but I agree that there were a couple of really good players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
Basically the same list, just switched out the two BoP for a Ponder and a basic Island. The Ballista version may be the way to go in the future. We've already got Abrupt Decay main to deal with Revoker and almost any number of sideboard cards that shut off artifacts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
Took the Ballista list (different SB of course) for a spin at a win-a-box on Sunday. Went 2-1-2 and finished 10th overall :(
Match 1
1-1 vs Grixis Control: I win a very grindy first game but get quickly overturned by Jace and a TNN in the second... I am getting on top in game 3 when time is called and neither of us can force a win.
Match 2
2-0 vs Storm: I win Game 1 after my opponent forgets that walking ballista is a creature that my DRS can eat to gain life... I survive on 1 for a few turns, chipping away at his life, until he goes for an ad nauseum and bricks down to 3 life with 2 active DRS in play. I don't think i'll be this lucky against storm again. Game 2 I get an opening 7 of; fetch, DRS, brainstorm, FoW, Ballista, food chain, griffin. My opponent has no probes/discard and tries and fails to go off T3... I combo off a turn later.
Match 3
2-0 vs Miracles: Game 1 I get the combo on T3 with FoW back up while my opponent is still spinning his top looking for something useful. Game 2 takes a bit longer but manipulate fate lets me get some card advantage going and i soon get to combo off agail.
Match 4
1-1 vs Aggro Loam: Game 1 i shoot down an early LotV with a Ballista but then get slowly punched by an ever expanding scavenging ooze. I eventually get a couple of blockers in play and the food chain engine online but i am at 1 life and can do nothing about a top-decked Pfire (my opp was dredging every turn AND had a library in play so should have found this waay sooner). Game 2 I ignore his chalice on 1 and Leovold quickly drains his resources so i can combo off. Game 3 I force his Liliana and Garruk but am a Ballista away from killing him before turns end :(
Match 5
0-2 vs karakas miracles: Game 1 He gets T4 Jace into play and I struggle to get anything going as he brainstorms into cliques and removal... i am poised to win but an actual topdeck entreat wins on the spot. Game 2 I again have to face Jace from T4 and I am soon soft locked out and concede. I see one manipulate fate (which was forced) and one eternal scourge in the entire match. variance is a harsh mistress sometimes.
Bummed out not to make the top8 despite only losing 4 games in 5 matches...... I really only have myself to blame for not playing faster in rounds 1 and 4 as I was easily poised to win both had I had more time available. The karakas miracles match was a bit of a punt too as I forgot that they run little in the way of counter magic (FoW and CB only) and rely on slower disruption to lock people out. If i'd realised earlier, I would have sat on my threats and played them all at once to overload his defences. That said Jace was a real issue all day and I lost 3 games almost entirely on the back of that card resolving. If it's active for a couple of turns our deck has real issues dealing with it.
Overall I was impressed with the Ballistae - they were rarely a dead draw like emrakul/tyrant/empath can be and they certainly closed out games as well as our other win cons have in the past. They ARE more vulnerable to hate and I would expect people to wise up to this before too long but, for now, they are going to be my weapon of choice. A good question is: Can we run 2 trinket mage + 2 Ballista? it's nice to be able to kill mom and other annoyances but the trinket mages would make SB options that little bit stronger (needle, explosives, meekstone, cage, spellbomb, etc....) plus they pitch to Force <3
A more toolbox oriented version with 2 Trinket Mage & 1 Ballista won a 39 man turney even through the Top 8 matches. Two Food Chain players attended and both went Top 4, this deck is a beast right now.
https://spielraum.co.at/de/berichte/...6-02-2017.aspx
I'm not sure about only 2 Griffins and the 2 Angler but the rest looks solid. I probably give 2 Mages 2 Ballista a shot, we will see.
Top 4 was Food Chain vs DnT and Grixis Delver vs BG Dark Depths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
Peter
Hey guys,
I recently picked up this deck (the 4 Ballista version which won the last 2 events above) and wanted to know when you guys board out the combo, especially with this version? A sideboard guide would also be helpful.
Greetings
Hi,
I tend to board it out against decks where (a) they are a much faster combo deck then us and stopping them winning is the best route to victory and (b) they are almost certain to bring in/already have multiple pieces of hate.
Just be aware that you are going to slow yourself down massively and construct your sideboard accordingly.
I'm pretty new to the deck, so I'm sure others have run into this situation before, but I thought it was an interesting line.
I've cast Manipulate Fate multiple turns ago and the opponent is very obviously keeping Abrupt Decay mana up during my turn for a few turns in a row. So I midrange beats them and build my board until I'm able to drop Food Chain and exile my board for just enough mana to Ballista them to death.
Also interesting, if they had Krosan Grip in the same situation, you'd need to hold priority and activate Ballista for the full amount before passing priority to them. If you activate once and pass priority, they can destroy the Ballista and you wouldn't be able to bean them for lethal.
Hey guys,
I recently picked up this deck and am playing the following version:
18 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Walking Ballista
3 Misthollow Griffin
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Scourge
22 Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Manipulate Fate
20 Lands
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Flusterstorm
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Umezawas Jitte/Vendilion Clique (Not sure here)
2 Pithing Needle
FoW Count -> 23
With my current SB I want to have good game vs unfair Combo decks which are super bad G1 if we dont have a fast T3 Combo kill with FoW backup or something. I saw many lists running 4 Hymn in the SB but I dont want to be able to interact on T2 with them especially not OTD. I just think that´s to late even if Hymn is a great card for sure. I´m also a Little bit afraid of BB on T2 because if I have a starting hand with Island/Forest + Sea or Trop + Sea or whatever it´s not castable on T2.
The only thing where I´m totally unsure about is the whole sideboarding topic. I thought about the boarding plans for each common MU and outside of true combo MU´s like Storm or BR Reanimator I´m really unsure what the ideal strategy is because there are some MU´s where cutting the combo and just add something to the combo is both a option (Like vs Elves, DnT, Eldrazi and so on).
Could you guys give me some help here especially with the Ballista list?
MU´s where I´m unsure about are:
Death & Taxes
Elves
Eldrazi
Miracles
Thx alot
Don't take this as gospel:
D&T: They mess with our mana, cantrips, and can easily hate out single cards. They do have to overcommit to get all these effects though so try and stall until you can Xfor1 them.
out - 4 food chain
In - removal (I have dread of night, 2 brutality, and a deluge)
Elves: Nasty and consistent combo that is about 2 turns faster than us. Stop them winning with NO and try to race.
out - 2 food chain 3 baleful strix9
In - removal (see above) and grafdigger's cage
Eldrazi: They just drop big threats and ride them to a T4/5 win. Strix is amazing here but you probably won't have much else in your board to combat them. Brutality can be great at killing mimics band taking their wail but it can also be dead....entirely depends on their build and your sideboard... in general I'd take out forces and add removal provided the removal can deal with their bigger creatures (dismember, murderous cut, etc). My experience with Eldrazi is that they either have the nut draw and there's nothing you can do, or they run out of gas by turn 4 and due miserably. :D
Miracles: shouldn't be too tricky against the regular builds, Jace isvtheir scariest card overall. The venser+karakas version is super annoying though as it has multiple ways to lock you out of the game.
out - baleful strix
In - anything that fucks with SDT or their mana (Null Rod, Pithing needle, winter orb). EE is a great answer to entreat (and can be tutored up with trinket mage, hint, hint) plus it kills Jace.
Hi everyone!
I made this deck and have played it a little bit, I'm very curious to you all who have a lot of experience. Do you guys believe the Ballista version will hold as the definitive food chain build or is the Tidespout and Griselbrand build too good to get away from?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
After testing against my brother's Ballista version, I think it's far superior to the Empath version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manroe
Beyond the obligatory 'it pitches to FOW,' Trinket Mage is able to tutor for your win con AND good sideboard cards (Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives), which Fierce Empath is much worse at (with the exception of Aethersnipe is there anything worth getting?). Ballista can also just be played for value instead of it just being dead in your hand like Emrakul or Tidespout. This allows you to shift gears from a grindy midrange deck to an insta-win combo deck, or vice-versa, much easier than before.
Something else to consider: Death & Taxes, Elves, and Infect are all popular decks I would argue are worse than 50/50 matchups (especially the previous Empath version). Ballista now allows you to ping creatures and can function as a two mana removal spell for creatures that were difficult for you to beat before (Blighted Agent, Mother of Runes, Phyrexian Revoker, Wirewood Symbiote). You are also able to redirect damage to planeswalkers with low loyalty now instead of just attacking them. For example, the way you lose to Miracles, a positive matchup, is Jace out-grinding you - Jace is now easier to beat.
This is the major takeaway: the Mage-Ballista package allows for far greater versatility without sacrificing speed and probably increases consistency and matchup percentages. There isn't a good reason to play the Empath version over the Mage version.
Thanks for the quick reply! What is your current split? 2/2 on mages and ballistae? Also on a side note, my sideboard is as follows..Quote:
Originally Posted by NeckBird
2 surgical
1 Cage
1 EE
1 Needle
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Misdirection
2 Mind break Trap
2 Toxic Deluge
I have two open slots and I'm not sure about misdirection. Thoughts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeckBird
Although I also really like the new Trinket mage + Ballista package, I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the ability to tutor for hate cards. Isn't a turn 4-cast Grafdigger's cage little slow against combo ? Same for Pithing needle against miracles ? OK it can happen that it still remains relevant in some long games (especially miracles ;) but in general hate cards are upmost useful when cast early.
Any experience with Sensei's divining top as a Trinket mage target ? it looks cute on the paper, but I haven't tested it yet as I prefered to play with Sylvan library so far. I have the feeling we are very often tapped out at end of turns and we wouldn't be able to pay the additional mana needed by Top very often, am I wrong ?
I also have to say I really enjoyed Null rod recently. Non-tutorable with Trinket mage, but so strong for many matchups : Death & taxes, Miracles, and the difficult Storm. However it also prevent our Top (if we decide to play it, but I doubt about it) and our Ballista from firing (we don't care about it for the Storm matchup, but it's definitely a drawback against D&T and Miracles) so I was wondering whether I still want Null rod in SB or not :/
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeckBird
Although I also really like the new Trinket mage + Ballista package, I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the ability to tutor for hate cards. Isn't a turn 4-cast Grafdigger's cage little slow against combo ? Same for Pithing needle against miracles ? OK it can happen that it still remains relevant in some long games (especially miracles ;) but in general hate cards are upmost useful when cast early.
Any experience with Sensei's divining top as a Trinket mage target ? it looks cute on the paper, but I haven't tested it yet as I prefered to play with Sylvan library so far. I have the feeling we are very often tapped out at end of turns and we wouldn't be able to pay the additional mana needed by Top very often, am I wrong ?
I also have to say I really enjoyed Null rod recently. Non-tutorable with Trinket mage, but so strong for many matchups : Death & taxes, Miracles, and the difficult Storm. However it also prevent our Top (if we decide to play it, but I doubt about it) and our Ballista from firing (we don't care about it for the Storm matchup, but it's definitely a drawback against D&T and Miracles) so I was wondering whether I still want Null rod in SB or not :/