Thank you for the insightful post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
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Thank you for the insightful post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Zombie summed it up pretty well with his post. All delver decks play a pretty standard core of Delver, cantrips, and permission spells, with variation on the remainder of the deck based on color (green can play goyf, black can play discard, red can play burn spells, etc.) Infect plays out the majority of its games as a delver deck (threat, cantrips, permission) that fills out the rest of its slots with protection spells that double up as a combo kill. If by "easy to hate out" you mean it's easy to kill creatures then yes, Legacy has some pretty fantastic ways to deal with creatures which is exacerbated in our case by our full suite of one toughness creatures. That said, we also have a good amount of counter magic plus many relevant pump spells (something else that no other deck in legacy has) to keep our threats alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidneyious
A word of caution though, this deck is not easy to play. If you want to be convinced into playing this deck, I suggest you sleeve up a 75 card list (proxy or otherwise) as soon as possible, and jam as many games as you have time for before deciding whether or not its the right deck for you. I spent a good 6 months losing 75% of my matches with this deck, followed by another 6 months of playing against UR Delver in cruise era (luckily you won't have to worry about that) losing 100% of my matches before I finally found my footing and started putting up results with this deck. There will be games where you feel like you've been shut out and have already lost in the first turns, and I don't think you're going to get far with this deck if you're on the fence or just waiting to be convinced that Infect is a strong force in the meta.
As everyone will tell you, just play whatever you enjoy in this format. Like many other decks, Infect is a well established contender in legacy that only puts up results if you're willing to put work into the deck.
Spellskite went in as well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
I currently play 8creature burn, affinity and I'm finishing spiral tide.
Been playing a "spring tide" for a while now and want the power of time spiral.
When a few cards get reprinted I'm making mud/stax.
I can afford the lesser duals which I will be buying as soon as I'm done with tide.
Most legacy decks don't interest me.
A riveting read, solid 5/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidneyious
I'm a simple man
What do you guys think about mindbreak trap in the sideboard? I'm thinking about adding 1 copy for storm.
Flusterstorm is just about as good and way more flexible to use in other matchups. Mindbreak isn't bad, just a lot more restrictive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ns407
Seems narrow, I'd much rather have something with more versatility like Flusterstorm. The only situation vs storm in which Mindbreak seems better is against an opponent who fires off a blind Cabal Therapy, which is a pretty rare and desperate move on their part. Flusterstorm does just as well in stopping the combo and has the additional option of countering discard spells. It's also relevant in a few more matchups, while Mindbreak Trap is flat out dead against a non-combo deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ns407
If Flusterstorm isn't an option for the budget, I've found a one of Hydroblast or Envelop to be a welcome addition to the sideboard.
I'm really confused by most of your posts in here. If you aren't interested in infect why are you here? Saying you've played the modern version and thus you don't think it's capable is super confusing. I'm not sure what you want it to be capable of looking at the list of decks you are currently playing I'm not sure winning is what you want a deck to be capable of which would mean you probably are interested in losing in epic fashions. If that is the case you are absolutely right infect is not the deck for you. The legacy version is sooo much better than modern version it's not even funny. The legacy version has permission spells to protect your threats and interact with your opponent. You have invigorate which is insane, and berserk which not only works to combo kill but can also be used as removal in a pinch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidneyious
Why are you posting in a legacy forum if the deck in legacy don't interest you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Yeah fluster is just better for us. The copies can be very relevant in backing up our kill turn. I feel like it should see a reprint in EMA.
Just wanted to say that a general strategy against a blind cabal therapy is to intentionally tank, really hard. Act like you might have a force and you're thinking about it protecting your hand. Most storm players are going to name a FoW/daze 95% of the time.
In learning this deck, I feel like half of it is just bluffing.
I would only play Trap if the format was mostly about hardcasting Emrakuls. Against storm it's mostly effective when on top of you library with access to instant card draw. I like to think that it's storm hate for non-blue decks and blue decks have lots and lots of better options. If you want to hate storm, look no further than Null Rod.
Possibly off topic, but what other decks in the meta rely as heavily on playing the opponent as we do? Granted my experience with other decks is limited, but I feel Infect might take the top spot for a deck that rewards knowing how to read people and exploit mind games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz
Not many, I don't think. You can kind of bluff with some decks but the costs are usually too great. The attack step that can turn into half their life or straight death is kind of unique in that regard. I guess RUG has some of that with Stifle and Elves can occasionally do very silly things with Glimpse. There's some kind of recognition game with Elves where you try to sniff out what they've got going and just go over the top elsewhere. Countermagic? Just play creatures. Bunch of removal? You're a green Storm deck. Storm mirrors can be pretty mindgame heavy in my experience. But overall, Infect is very unique in this regard. Most Magic games really are resource allocation and not making mistakes with the occasional brilliance, Infect is one of the few that really plays up the play the player angle all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesture
Hi all,
I'm long time legacy player and I would like to play infect at GP Prague.
My other options are 4cLoam, Maverick, Eldrazi Aggro and Burn, but I think infect is better in such a wide environment and I have more experience with it. I also prefer proactive deck which is able to close games quickly and punish unexperienced players. But I'm still not sure about white splash, I really like rest in peace against BUG decks (goyf, deathrite), but swords is card I almost never want to SB in, except for mirror and some weird decks (painter, cephalid breakfast etc.). What is your opinion on white spash in such a wide open unknown metagame? I'm expecting three dominant pillars: delver decks, miracles and eldrazi (coz is cheap, powerfull and easy to play).
My last LGS tournaments results are quite good (a lot of 3:1), but I still have problem to beat competent delver player who knows how to play against infect. It is quite easy matchup from delver side of the table, with cheap permission, lot of counters and fast threats.
Last time i tried Clay's Spicklemire UG build, but with changes in SB and with only 3 dazes and one ponder maindeck.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12443&d=271580&f=LE
my sb was:
-1 bojuka bog
+1 surgical extraction
-1 natures claim
+1 sylvan library
-1 spellskite
+pithing needle
finished 2:2 beat mirror and lands and lose to two bug delver decks (twice 1:2)
I'm not sure if I prefer it more than my usual white splash SB:
2x swords
2x RIP
2x fluster
1x karakas
1x savannah
1x FOW
1x surgical extraction
2x krosan grip
1x viridian corrupter
1x needle
1x natures claim
and my usual MD with: 1x zenith and arbor, 1x crop rotation, 3x daze, 3x fow, 2x pierce, 1x sylvan, 2x probe, 1x become imm, 1x ponder, 2x berserk, 3x vines, rest of the deck is quite standard.
What do you think? Do you prefer white splash or not?
BTW one tournament before I lost deciding game in finals to shardless bug with 2x sword and RIP in hand, but without white source of mana:/
Play the white splash if you have trouble with lands (rip) or red decks (absolute law). StP is great versus delver decks as well as eldrazis, keeping Chalice in mind, though.
I expect miracles, delvers, eldrazi, storm and burn in Prague so I play the aforementioned white cards. You can replace Absolute law with Chill and use Submerge/Echoing truth as removal if you decide against white. Then you need some combination of Bojuka Bog and Surgical Extractions to cover the graveyards.
I love the white splash; if you prefer to kill graveyards at instant speed then you could keep crop rotation/bog but stp is so much more versatile than submerge that I feel that a couple swords and a Savannah in the board is worth it. I run 2 RIP and one surgical, works well for me. Plus, karakas in the side is another white source. After the swords made a few of my matchups easier I haven't looked back.Quote:
Originally Posted by datanaga
Your deck choice seems fine. I can't imagine anyone here would say otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by datanaga
I think you might be misevaluating how strong Swords to Plowshares is. I'd leave it at home against Storm, Miracles, and most Chalice decks but that card is coming in against any deck that wins through creatures. It's great against tempo decks (they tend to have relatively few threats) and does a fine job of disrupting synergistic creature decks (I am more than happy to spot remove a turn 1 lackey or a Heritage Druid).
Overall I'm a fan of white splash for open metas. I've recently been playing the white splash for Swords to Plowshares as a catch all for creatures, but I'm also opting to use the Crop Rotation package with Karakas/Bojuka Bog in place of the Rest in Peace. The RiP's are undoubtedly strong, but some of the graveyard based matchups (mainly Dredge and Reanimator) are just too fast to count on a 2 mana enchantment, especially if I'm on the draw. It's been hurting my Lands match-up a little bit, but I'm okay with taking the lost percentage points on that one as the deck isn't as popular around here.
It's interesting that you're having trouble with BUG delver. This should be one of the easier Delver matchups, as they tend to fall behind RUG in terms of tempo and behind Grixis in terms of sheer value. Plus you have really convenient answers to Abrupt Decay in both Vines of Vastwood and Inkmoth Nexus. Maybe try playing it a bit slower? Their clock is pretty slow, especially if you manage to land a Rest in Peace. Just use your vines to protect creatures and hold pump spells until you're certain they won't be countered.
I see some decks packing a second wasteland in the SB. What match ups is this coming in?
I'd imagine it comes in against 12 Post, or really any deck with Crop Rotation and Glacial Chasm? But even then, it doesn't seem great so maybe I'm missing something. Maybe it's a way to further punish greedy mana bases? I know there was a "gotcha" version of Infect that ran extra stifles and wastelands, but that doesn't seem to have worked out as the tempo aspect doesn't really line up with our game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
TL;DR I don't know either, but I'd be really curious to hear from anyone who has had experience with this.