[Deck] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by Dan Pyre

Just focusing on this point since the rest of your ideas are just as legitimate for trying new things. I don't think Ember Hauler is as clunky as it looks, as per the gigantic list I just posted. It has a lot of utility that both Tarfire and Gempalm don't cover. This isn't going to fit well in a 'no frills' list with no singletons that runs 4x Piledriver, but if you're reaching for a decent 2 drop that has utility (removal/endgame reach) then this is the best we have right now.

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Overall I just think Ember Hauler compares very poorly to Sparksmith, it fills the same role (CMC 2 goblin that acts as removal) but the manacost is worse and the ceiling is also worse (Ember Hauler will never be much more than 2 mana 2 power Seal of Fire, best case for Sparksmith is 2 mana Visara).

Sparksmith becomes even stronger for every Warchief you have (haste + discount, remember if you're playing Warchief then not only are RR goblins like EHauler hard to cast off waste/port but they don't get any cost reduction), and I still think it's worth playing even though I run zero Warchief

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

Overall I just think Ember Hauler compares very poorly to Sparksmith, it fills the same role (CMC 2 goblin that acts as removal) but the manacost is worse and the ceiling is also worse (Ember Hauler will never be much more than 2 mana 2 power Seal of Fire, best case for Sparksmith is 2 mana Visara).

Sparksmith becomes even stronger for every Warchief you have (haste + discount, remember if you're playing Warchief then not only are RR goblins like EHauler hard to cast off waste/port but they don't get any cost reduction), and I still think it's worth playing even though I run zero Warchief

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Sparksmith has downsides too - you can't use it for removal if you're too low on life, it only does 1 damage on its own and requires a summon sick tap ability to use. I'm saying that dismissing cards like Ember Hauler right away shouldn't be our line of thinking just because they haven't had mainstream use yet.

So I've been doing some more testing, figured I'd let you all know some results. Today I played a whole bunch of games against Elves and RUG Delver (pretty classic lists for both, RUG was playing 4 delver, 4 goyf, 4 mongoose, 1 seal of fire 1 forked bolt maindeck). We only played game 1s for delver, he didn't have the whole board together. I have to imagine it gets way better post board for us, since Relic lets you not just die to a big dumb tarmogoyf.

Here's what I was playing:
4 Vial

4 Lackey
4 Ringleader
4 Matron
3 Piledriver
3 Chieftain
3 Mogg War Marshal
2 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Warchief
1 Chirurgeon
1 Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger

3 Tarfire
1 Pyrokinesis

23 Lands
6 Fetches
4 Caverns
4 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Port

Sideboard:
2 Relic
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Krenko
1 Siege Gang
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Pithing Needle
3 Blood Moon
1 Earwig Squad
1 Pyrokinesis

So my idea with this list was getting much lower to the ground, with 8 actual 2 drops, no maindeck finishers. However, I wanted the capacity to transform into a much more bomb heavy and grindy deck, hence the 2 finishers in the board, plus 2 K command.

Elves: Winning on the play isn't too difficult. T1 Lackey plus tarfire is almost always a win as long as you can swiftly move towards a sharpshooter. On the draw, it's a lot tougher, nearly impossible unless they just can't find the natural order or hoof.

Post board, I brought in a ton of cards since most are quite impactful. Therapy, Pyro, Squad, 2 Moons, Siege-Gang, Needle all came in. Still not sold on blood moon against elves though, usually too slow to actually cut them off colors. I cut most of my ringleaders, the bad conditional cards like tuktuk, and the Grenzos. Therapy is such a big deal in this matchup, breaking up their combo in their hand slows them MASSIVELY. My therapies swiped out 2 natural orders, and secured the way for a sharpshooter by nabbing a decay. Chirurgeon also performed well for protecting sharpshooter. However, I consistently missed having prospector as well. Moving forward, I think I want to play both. I did lose a game or 2 with an active sharpshooter, mostly because I died to Nissa, Vital Force after getting flooded and lacking any more goblins to sac to the chirurgeon to kill x/2s (and the big 5/5 land. Overall, I'm still convinced that Elves is a barely favored matchup overall, as long as you play well and time your removal spells accurately.

If I were to replace grenzo, I'd play sparksmith instead, he's amazing for matchups like this.

RUG Delver: I still feel like I don't quite have a handle on this matchup. The threat of goyf plus disruption just seems virtually impossible to overcome. Since goyf is almost immediately a 4/5 or larger, I can never gempalm it, especially since we have to start chump blocking pretty damn quick because the creatures hit so damn hard. I know other goblins players have been able to beat RUG delver consistently, and did it for years back in the day, but I can't seem to. Now, granted, my opponent has now played against goblins about a million times now and knows that all he really needs is a force for my vial/bolt for lackey, then just threat after threat after threat. There's just no way to beat a board of a couple of threshed mongeese and goyfs without something like Krenko to just generate infinite blockers. I also never played a single t1 vial that resolved (Even on the play), despite playing them really often. We can draw all the cards in the world with ringleader, but it doesn't matter if they're just a pile of 1/1s and 2/2s that we're immediately forced to chump with to stay alive. The more zoo-like his draw, the more unwinnable the matchup felt. Advice on this matchup in game 1 settings would be really nice. We probably traded games at a 40/60 or 35/65 ratio in his favor.

The 3 Piledrivers were nice in most situations. I got the classic warchief into triple piledriver kill which was nice. The only time I ever actually got to kill a goyf in 15 games was when I forced him to chump PD with it. Grenzo hit a really nice brainstorm for me, grabbing me an important wasteland that protected my matron from stifle.

Since we didn't play postboard I don't have any thoughts other than what I would bring in and take out. On the play, I'd bring in 2 Relics, 2 Moons, Krenko, and perhaps squad? I'd cut the 3 tarfires (which are absolutely miserable in the matchup), pyrokinesis, sharpshooter, and tuktuk. On the draw, probably the same plan? Is exposure to wasteland through therapy ever worth it? It's certainly a nice way to counteract the goyf problem.

After playing these games, I'm more convinced that I want both prospector and chirurgeon. I really had a hard time deciding what to cut, ended up shaving a war marshal, though I'm far from committed to that. I also would like to be able maindeck the krenko, he's just so powerful as a top-end, even in the super tempo-oriented matchups like RUG. Even against Elves he grants inevitability, and insulates you from sideboard cards like Scavenging Ooze that can dominate the game.

I also wanted a 4th discard spell, either just a 4th therapy, or a thoughtseize (leaning towards the seize). I think I'll cut the minister, but am unsure. Minister is really really good against the 2 best decks right now (grixis delver and pile) since it can wipe the board of Baleful Strixes, Snapcasters, Young Pyromancers + Tokens, TNN, and shrinking drs to an 0/1 for a turn frees up good attacks. This doesn't even mention it's huge power against D&T, where it could nearly be a deluge (and dodges mom protection!). Same deal with Elves. I think of Minister as taking the slot of the 3rd pyro and a warren weirding at the same time, since it fulfills a similar purpose for both cards (though doesn't handle griselbrand, emrakul and marit lage like weirding can).

What other sideboard card could I cut? If I maindeck the Krenko, then what should I cut from there?

By the way, I know the decklist is 61 cards, I'm okay with that.

Is there any sense in running MD Tuktuk Scrapper? Do you really run into Bridge, Jitte, Sword or Batterskull or whatever that you can't deal with often enough for it to be worthwhile? It seems miserable against the whole top tier and very situational and unnecessary vs. mid tier decks (you can stop lifelink from Batterskull and Jitte counters by chumping and saccing), and even against Ensnaring Bridge you can win with Sharpshooter (many Bridge-decks are otherwise poor at dealing with creatures.. I think an SGC, Piledriver, War Marshal or basically anything else would be much better. Also, such a low Warchief count feels off: I found Warchief a key accelerant into midgame if you ever ended up in a situation where you lack Vial or Lackey. I'd also definitely play the second Pyrokinesis main with two more in the side. It just seems too good against everything; wins you tempo against Eldrazi to stabilize, punches Lackeys through vs. almost everything, absolutely houses Elves/D&T/Pile/Grixis Pyromancer and so on.

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Originally Posted by Dan Pyre

Oooooh man I'm not a fan of Ember Hauler either but you folk really need to put some thought into it. Aside from Wizards never printing any good Goblin cards, attitudes like this are the reasons the deck will never evolve and become better. We need to be willing to try out of the box things before dismissing them!

SO here's some honest to goodness reasons to try playing Ember Hauler (I bolded ones where Ember Hauler definitely loses out and isn't conditional):

1) Comparing to Gempalm Incinerator:
-Ember Hauler always does 2 damage to a creature/Gempalm Incinerator has the possibility to do more than that but cannot remove DRS or flipped Delver with only 1 Goblin on board.
-Ember Hauler damage can go face/Gempalm Incinerator cannot
-Ember Hauler can be used as a body before removal/Gempalm Incinerator cannot be a body if used as removal
-Ember Hauler doesn't die to Engineered Plague effects in a pinch/Gempalm Incinerator does
-Ember Hauler is a T2 play, something that Goblins sorely lacks (MWM is 'okay' and Piledriver isn't good on its own, Ember Hauler IS)/Gempalm is never played as a body 95 percent of the time
-Ember Hauler does not require other board presence to be removal/Gempalm does require board presence to be removal
-Ember Hauler does not draw a card/Gempalm does draw a card

2) Comparing to Tarfire:
-Ember Hauler is a body for Gempalm Incinerator/Chieftain/Piledriver/Krenko effects or even for blocking and regular pressure / Tarfire is not
-Ember Hauler is uncounterable with Cavern or Aether Vial activation/Tarfire is not
-Ember Hauler gets around Chalice of the Void on 1 (Eldrazi matchup)/Tarfire does not
-Ember Hauler overall costs 3 mana to do 2 damage if that's the exact effect you need/Tarfire costs 1
-Ember Hauler doesn't remove a T1 DRS/Delver/Mother of Runes/ Tarfire does remove these

Misc:
-Ember Hauler can be used as a chump blocker, then sacrificed before damage to remove something else (eg, block a Gurmag, kill a Delver). This is just as good as if not MWM in these kind of situations.
-Ember Hauler is versatile - it is both a threat and a removal, similar to how Seal of Fire functions. While the removal on its body is telegraphed, your opponent has to play into it or wait to play around it which buys us precious time for Aether Vial ticks or mana development.
-Ember Hauler has a RR mana cost, making it difficult to cast in 4x Wasteland/4x Rishadan Port builds (Karakas, Pendelhaven too)
-If you play a version with Kolaghan's Command, you can find situations where recurring Ember Hauler would be useful (opponent at 4, neither Tarfire nor Gempalm can be brought back to do lethal).
-In a Chrome Mox build, Ember Hauler CAN remove DRS/other blocker on T2 to sneak Lackey through (Gempalm cannot unless you have a 2nd Lackey to power it).

Many of these are niche scenarios but we are playing a toolbox deck. Dismissing Ember Hauler outright is not correct but I can't say I'm EXCITED about him being in my deck. He's just another option for us to try. We need to be willing to experiment and hopefully the next time a 2-drop Goblin gets printed it is actually so good that, yes, we can outright say that Ember Hauler isn't good enough. In the meantime though, let's keep trying different options. Personally I'll be trying that outlandish No Cavern/ R/B build soon myself, it looks interesting.

Speaking of, since I've written all this I'm going to buy 4x Foil Ember Hauler to test out in the deck. B)

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It is also possible to sacrifice Ember Hauler using colorless mana from our Wastelands, Rishadan Ports or Caverns of Souls. Tarfire and Gempalm Incinerator don't allow that.

I gave the guy a chance yesterday, and went 3-1 against Mono-blue Delver, UR Delver, TES, lost to Dredge (never saw a SB card and mulled to 4 each time). The wins didn't implied Ember at all. Tarfire, Pyroblast and Gempalm did all the removal work.

EDIT: Of course, it's useless to write that the 3 Piledrivers won all games by themselves.

In a list with 4 Wastelands, 4 Ports, he was hard to cast. Most of the time, I wanted to drop him through Vial, but with Gempalm, Mogg War Marshal, lands in hand and a Vial @2, I was not really inclined to vial him and use 1 mana just to kill a flipped Delver. I found that Vial could have a better use, like dropping MWM+Gempalm+draw a card or Vial in Piledriver EOT and prepare the assault with Vial @3 and Warchief/Chieftain next turn.

For the moment I'm quite mitigated, but I would like to test him more, especially against BUG & Grixis. Against Rug, he is useless, because their creatures have shroud. In this scenario, I prefer to draw a card with Gempalm or have multiple MWM for Piledriver.

Anyway, here is the list I ran:

MD:
4 Caverns / Wastelands / Rishadan Ports / Mountain
5 fetches
1 Taiga, 1 Plateau

4 Lackey / Vial / Ringleader / Matron
3 Warchief / Piledriver
2 MWM / Ember Hauler
1 Skirk Prospector / Gang-Bang Commander / Tin-Street Hooligan / Stingscourger / Sharpshooter / Chieftain

2 Tarfire / Gempalm
1 Pyrokinesis

SB:
3 Thalia
2 Relic / Pithing Needle / Pyroblast / Pyrokinesis / Surgical Extraction
1 Stingscourger / Tin-Street Hooligan

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Originally Posted by Fourbirr

It is also possible to sacrifice Ember Hauler using colorless mana from our Wastelands, Rishadan Ports or Caverns of Souls. Tarfire and Gempalm Incinerator don't allow that.

I gave the guy a chance yesterday, and went 3-1 against Mono-blue Delver, UR Delver, TES, lost to Dredge (never saw a SB card and mulled to 4 each time). The wins didn't implied Ember at all. Tarfire, Pyroblast and Gempalm did all the removal work.

In a list with 4 Wastelands, 4 Ports, he was hard to cast. Most of the time, I wanted to drop him through Vial, but with Gempalm, Mogg War Marshal, lands in hand and a Vial @2, I was not really inclined to vial him and use 1 mana just to kill a flipped Delver. I found that Vial could have a better use, like dropping MWM+Gempalm+draw a card or Vial in Piledriver EOT and prepare the assault with Vial @3 and Warchief/Chieftain next turn.

For the moment I'm quite mitigated, but I would like to test him more, especially against BUG & Grixis. Against Rug, he is useless, because their creatures have shroud. In this scenario, I prefer to draw a card with Gempalm or have multiple MWM for Piledriver.

Anyway, here is the list I ran:

MD:
4 Caverns / Wastelands / Rishadan Ports / Mountain
5 fetches
1 Taiga, 1 Plateau

4 Lackey / Vial / Ringleader / Matron
3 Warchief / Piledriver
2 MWM / Ember Hauler
1 Skirk Prospector / Gang-Bang Commander / Tin-Street Hooligan / Stingscourger / Sharpshooter / Chieftain

2 Tarfire / Gempalm
1 Pyrokinesis

SB:
3 Thalia
2 Relic / Pithing Needle / Pyroblast / Pyrokinesis / Surgical Extraction
1 Stingscourger / Tin-Street Hooligan

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Hey, thanks for reporting your tests with the card! Looks like you didn't particularly have much luck with him which is fair. However, I do have some nitpicks :P

-You mention you're on a 4 Waste/4 Port build. I think this is evidence that he isn't really playable in that sort of build as he could make mulligan decisions incredibly awkward. I think it might be better served to try him in a list with no Ports.

-In an example, you cite that it would be better to Vial in MWM and activate Gempalm's ability for removal than use Ember. However, this implies that you have assembled 3 cards in your hand, the mana to use the ability, the Vial on the correct count and that your opponent can't reduce the Goblin count in response. Ember Hauler gives you exactly what you need at a specific cost without having to jump through hoops. So I agree in this instance that MWM/Gempalm is superior but that's quite a specific circumstance.

-Against RUG Delver he is much less effective, but unlike MWM chumps he can still block a Goyf and then kill a Delver. That's quite significant but also quite niche. (Delver player must have committed multiple threats to the board.)

To be honest I'm not convinced of Ember Hauler myself even now BUT I wanted to stir up conversation and testing so that we're not all so 'set in our ways' with decklists. Thank you again for your report!

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

Is there any sense in running MD Tuktuk Scrapper? Do you really run into Bridge, Jitte, Sword or Batterskull or whatever that you can't deal with often enough for it to be worthwhile? It seems miserable against the whole top tier and very situational and unnecessary vs. mid tier decks (you can stop lifelink from Batterskull and Jitte counters by chumping and saccing), and even against Ensnaring Bridge you can win with Sharpshooter (many Bridge-decks are otherwise poor at dealing with creatures.. I think an SGC, Piledriver, War Marshal or basically anything else would be much better. Also, such a low Warchief count feels off: I found Warchief a key accelerant into midgame if you ever ended up in a situation where you lack Vial or Lackey. I'd also definitely play the second Pyrokinesis main with two more in the side. It just seems too good against everything; wins you tempo against Eldrazi to stabilize, punches Lackeys through vs. almost everything, absolutely houses Elves/D&T/Pile/Grixis Pyromancer and so on.

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So you can stop Skull and Jitte from eradicating all of your creatures by... sacrificing all your creatures? Against Ensnaring Bridge you CAN win with sharpshooter or any burn card but that is often quite a challenge.

I see where you are coming from (and I wish it wasn't a 4 mana 2/2) but the only top decks it's really a blank against are Grixis Delver and Elves. Against CP you can just Nekrataal a Strix, which is fine, and against DNT/Stoneblade it's great, against combodecks it's not fantastic but neither is anything you would replace it with.

Pyrokinesis seems terrible against CP in my mind so one of us isn't understanding the matchup properly.
They hardly commit multiple creatures to the board unless they are cantrips and the whole gameplan seems to revolve around resource grinding.

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-You mention you're on a 4 Waste/4 Port build. I think this is evidence that he isn't really playable in that sort of build as he could make mulligan decisions incredibly awkward. I think it might be better served to try him in a list with no Ports.

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Well, that's a NO-GO! I cannot count the number of times where Ports saved my tribe, especially against Combo decks. I like the goblin control plan too much to forbid me to get access to.

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-In an example, you cite that it would be better to Vial in MWM and activate Gempalm's ability for removal than use Ember. However, this implies that you have assembled 3 cards in your hand, the mana to use the ability, the Vial on the correct count and that your opponent can't reduce the Goblin count in response. Ember Hauler gives you exactly what you need at a specific cost without having to jump through hoops. So I agree in this instance that MWM/Gempalm is superior but that's quite a specific circumstance.

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Yeah, that was specific. I just had the choice between him and something else and it appears that he wouldn't have done much. The sequencing with MWM+Gempalm had more value.

Ember would probably be better in a mono-red list without Ports. I'll test him more in both splashed and mono red lists.

There is another guy that I would like to test, and it's Bloodmark Mentor:
https://magiccards.info/scans/en/ddg/50.jpg

He has the merit to increase our chances against D&T since we won't have to board out Piledriver anymore, since he was useless against Thalia. I can imagine matroning for him in this match-up, but Sharpshooter or TSH/Tuktuk are probably better 90% of the time. It's also nice against Grixis and Young Pyromancer.

Does anyone already tested him?

Re: Bloodmark-

I've not tested him but I have one major problem, which is that his effect is not cumulative. So you can only justify running him as a 1-drop, but he's nowhere near powerful enough to Matron for.

Also, Legion Loyalist sorta does the same thing but better. And Legion Loyalist isn't good enough either. Again, because he doesn't have a cumulative effect. If Loyalist gave +1/+0 he's break the format. But he doesn't. So he didn't.

Bloodmark Mentor would be a 1-of to enable combat tricks during both the defensive or offensive phase.

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Also, Legion Loyalist sorta does the same thing but better.

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Hmmm, I disagree. Loyalist cannot give First Strike to our defenders and the 1-drop slots are already taken for Lackeys, Vials, Tarfires, Skirk/Doc Gob, or SB cards like Relic, Surgical, Pithing Needle, Pyroblast or Grafdigger's Cage to name a few. The Vialing effect that our opponent cannot see coming is key here. Usually, we can deal with tokens with Sharpshooter, Monastery Mentor with Gempalm/Tarfire and Batterskull with a shatter goblin. The trample ability does not much for us, since our only creature capable of tramping is Piledriver. In my opinion, he is at its best in the current Delver/Leovold/TNN everywhere Meta and does not need help to strike.

Is there another 2-drop goblin that could improve our deck? That's the question here.

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Originally Posted by Fourbirr

Bloodmark Mentor would be a 1-of to enable combat tricks during both the defensive or offensive phase.


Hmmm, I disagree. Loyalist cannot give First Strike to our defenders and the 1-drop slots are already taken for Lackeys, Vials, Tarfires, Skirk/Doc Gob, or SB cards like Relic, Surgical, Pithing Needle, Pyroblast or Grafdigger's Cage to name a few. The Vialing effect that our opponent cannot see coming is key here. Usually, we can deal with tokens with Sharpshooter, Monastery Mentor with Gempalm/Tarfire and Batterskull with a shatter goblin. The trample ability does not much for us, since our only creature capable of tramping is Piledriver. In my opinion, he is at its best in the current Delver/Leovold/TNN everywhere Meta and does not need help to strike.

Is there another 2-drop goblin that could improve our deck? That's the question here.

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I don’t think he’s that great; Grindy decks should always be thinking to the “topdeck” scenarios

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Originally Posted by Fourbirr

Bloodmark Mentor would be a 1-of to enable combat tricks during both the defensive or offensive phase.


Hmmm, I disagree. Loyalist cannot give First Strike to our defenders and the 1-drop slots are already taken for Lackeys, Vials, Tarfires, Skirk/Doc Gob, or SB cards like Relic, Surgical, Pithing Needle, Pyroblast or Grafdigger's Cage to name a few. The Vialing effect that our opponent cannot see coming is key here. Usually, we can deal with tokens with Sharpshooter, Monastery Mentor with Gempalm/Tarfire and Batterskull with a shatter goblin. The trample ability does not much for us, since our only creature capable of tramping is Piledriver. In my opinion, he is at its best in the current Delver/Leovold/TNN everywhere Meta and does not need help to strike.

Is there another 2-drop goblin that could improve our deck? That's the question here.

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Thin pickings.

For those who intend to peruse the twos':

Rares and Mythics

Uncommons

Commons


I've looked at these lists a number of times and what I want just isn't there :/

I don't get the point here.
As t2 play we already have piledriver, warren instigator, warren weirding, sparkmith, gempalm, mwm, port, new grenzo and is very hard to find room for all of them. So why search for bad cards with "goblin" tag on them?
I understand that we need to think out of the box, but find new strategies or new priorities in deck development is what we need. Shitty cards will not save the tribe..
Definitely looking for some cool new print in next sets.

Inviato dal mio SM-A320F utilizzando Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by menph

I don't get the point here.
As t2 play we already have piledriver, warren instigator, warren weirding, sparkmith, gempalm, mwm, port, new grenzo and is very hard to find room for all of them. So why search for bad cards with "goblin" tag on them?
I understand that we need to think out of the box, but find new strategies or new priorities in deck development is what we need. Shitty cards will not save the tribe..
Definitely looking for some cool new print in next sets.

Inviato dal mio SM-A320F utilizzando Tapatalk

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I don't think it's an understatement to say we fall behind in card quality for our turn 2 plays compared to pretty much every other Legacy deck. It can't hurt to dig around and try things, so why not? I've definitely tried all of the common strategies already, so that's a question of fine tuning, not exploration. I have my fallback lists that I know are tried and true, but I'll never learn about other strategies if I don't test them out, and how they might interact with other cards in unexpected ways. This even goes so far as to give a leg up on experience when cards come out that make older cards more viable.

This might be a Nice 2 drop. In some cases when you have enough Goblins you can cycle gempalm on him to Burn the opponent.
Or when you block goyf angler or KOTR.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c97bf1369a.jpg

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Originally Posted by dissy

This might be a Nice 2 drop. In some cases when you have enough Goblins you can cycle gempalm on him to Burn the opponent.
Or when you block goyf angler or KOTR.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c97bf1369a.jpg

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I tried mogg maniac a long time ago. It is cool, but not that good. When you get manic and gempalm working is fun and you can win games but it rarely happens, unless you increase the numbers of maniac.

Sent from my Power_2 using Tapatalk

Maniac is ass, Bloodmark is also ass

Planning to vial in on 2 as a combat trick is garbage in this deck because you never want to leave vial on 2, so the best case is what, like turn 1 vial turn 2 piledriver turn 3 warchief attack, vial in mentor? Why play situational cards when they aren't even that strong when the narrow situation even comes up? Don't get hung up on the fact that it fills your curve as a 2 drop when you can easily just play more MWMs or whatever (or any of the other things that menph listed)

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

So you can stop Skull and Jitte from eradicating all of your creatures by... sacrificing all your creatures? Against Ensnaring Bridge you CAN win with sharpshooter or any burn card but that is often quite a challenge.

I see where you are coming from (and I wish it wasn't a 4 mana 2/2) but the only top decks it's really a blank against are Grixis Delver and Elves. Against CP you can just Nekrataal a Strix, which is fine, and against DNT/Stoneblade it's great, against combodecks it's not fantastic but neither is anything you would replace it with.

Pyrokinesis seems terrible against CP in my mind so one of us isn't understanding the matchup properly.
They hardly commit multiple creatures to the board unless they are cantrips and the whole gameplan seems to revolve around resource grinding.

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Vs. Skull and Jitte you can sac irrelevant 1/1s and hit back for a billion, or if they don't hit you, you can just wait to Gempalm/whatever the problem creature and go for the throat in the same turn; generally you'll end up with more stuff out than they will and your War Marshals/tokens, Matrons, even Ringleaders or SGC/Grenko tokens are more than happy to jump in the front and take one for the team. It's the same as always - not the best plan but workable with the appropriate board and most importantly it doesn't fringe on your match-up vs. other stuff. Tuk Tuk is just too inefficient compared to some of the other 4-drops you could run. Nekrataaling Strix is...fine but unexciting and I'd want more out of my 4-drops. And it requires that you get the chance to do that in the first place. Tin Street could be worthwhile but again, I don't think we lose to artifacts enough G1 to need it. It's useful vs. D&T but even that doesn't get around the inefficiency of it all.

As for PK vs. CP, they're often with some Strixes, Deathrites and Snapcasters at least IME and you can clear the floor for alpha strike. Of course, it's not a card you actively want to bring in in the MU but it does push Lackey or Piledriver through a reasonable amount of the time and generates those tempo windows where you can go for the kill and prevents them from getting those fast starts with Deathrite in the first place. It's not bad enough here that I think it's worth overlooking the boons it offers against other match-ups.

Beating Jitte without artifact destruction is a magical scenario, you need like a perfect string of sac outlet plus MWMs plus things that can attack, and it assumes that your opponent can't equip it on a flier or a TNN, or give pro red with Mother of Runes, or guess what it's not Jitte it's Sword of Fire and Ice now you lose to any creature.

I have cut Scrapper in the past because I have been annoyed by drawing it but then I always inevitably add it back, killing artifacts is important and it comes up frequently enough to be worth being a vanilla 2/2 sometimes. I would play Hooligan instead if I splashed green.

Hopefully in MTG Dominaria we get Torch Fiend or Manic Vandal as a goblin (Why isn't there a red War Priest or Ronom Unicorn for artifacts?)