[Deck] Reanimator

practical joke: It took a lot of searching, but here is the decklist I think you played at the event. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems right. All of my comments will follow from this decklist itself.

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Lands: 16
4 polluted delta
3 underground sea
2 bayou
2 swamp
1 island
4 verdant catacomb

Artifacts: 4
4 lotus petal

Sorceries/Instants: 33
4 exhume
4 reanimate
1 intuition
1 show and tell
4 thoughtseize
4 brainstorm
4 careful study
4 entomb
4 force of will
3 Mystical Tutor

Creautres: 8
2 iona, shield of emeria
2 inkwell leviathan
1 angel of despair
1 akroma angel of wrath
1 empyrial archangel

Sideboard: 15
3 krosan grip
4 extirpate
1 infest
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 Show and Tell
2 engineered explosives
2 echoing truth
1 gilded drake.

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Here are my observations.
1. No Maindeck Sphinx
For me this is a serious problem in the Merfolk matchup. Iona does not necessarily stop Merfolk on its own, as they can keep popping guys into play using Vials, and they can keep hammering you for 6+ a turn due to Islandwalk. Empyrial Archangel, in my own experience, actually tends to die due to massive damage within a few turns of her hitting the battlefield.
Sphinx, on the other hand, is a far better choice. Lifelink is invaluable in outracing Merfolk, especially when attached to the Sphinx's imposing 6 power body. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that Sphinx is the only creature in Reanimator's arsenal that can outrace Merfolk. Why? Not only does it put the opponent on a 3-4 turn clock (3 if they used FoW excessively), but it prolongs your own life span by many times that number. No other creature does this in the Merfolk matchup. Inkwell might beat for one more, but it doesn't help you survive the onslaught of fish. Iona might shut down Merfolk's spellcasting abilities, but it does nothing to slow the clock, especially if they already have a Vial in play.
To conclude, you should definitely include one Sphinx in the maindeck. It is critical in outracing Merfolk (and to a lesser extent, Zoo).

2. Where is Daze?
Perhaps this is a play style choice, but I find that Daze is invaluable in EVERY matchup, not just Merfolk. Having just 3 of them gives you a powerful edge against any opponent that you can come across, especially Merfolk. If you are on the play, a timely Daze can either stop a Vial from coming into play, stop a FoW from resolving without the loss of extra cards, or force the Merfolk player to dump a FoW to protect one of their own cards. In any of those scenarios, you are being greatly benefited.
Some have argued that Spell Pierce is a better option in this slot, and while it can be in some scenarios, most of the time I find that Daze is a superior option. Why? Daze is free. Reanimator needs a fast clock to be most effective. If you have to leave one mana open to Pierce, then you are losing a turn of business. Daze lets you freely Entomb at EoT on turn 1 with far less worry of losing the spell, especially if your opponent is tapped out.

3. Blazing Archon
An excellent tool against Merfolk. Once Archon hits play, the Merfolk player has to find their Echoing Truth in order to do anything. Now, let us say that you maindeck one copy of the Archon (is this a good idea? Maybe not, but let us just speculate). Not all Merfolk decks run Echoing Truth in the maindeck. A quick check on deckcheck and SCG revealed that only a little more than half of the decks even have the card maindecked. When they do have it, they have only 2 copies. That means that in game 1, your opponent must either rely on drawing 1 of 2 cards to win (if they included Truth), or face the fact that they cannot win at all (if they do not have it). This gives you a giant advantage going into games 2 and 3.

4. The Llawan Question
Some have postulated that Llawan, Cephalid Empress is a good counter to Merfolk. After all, it acts as a mini Iona and a one sided Evacuation in your favor. It's cheap enough to even be hardcasted if needed and it pitches to FoW.
The problem is, with the exception of the fact that it can be hardcasted (which I will discuss shortly), Llawan is not a good card for Reanimator. If you Entomb/Study and Reanimate/Exhume it into play, you have essentially used 2 of your important business spells to get a creature into play that does not help you win. Rather, it prevents you from losing. Llawan does not put the Merfolk player on any serious clock; chances are she will get one swing in before the opponent has a blocker and a Lord in play ready to hold the line, courtesy of Vial. Unlike Sphinx or Archon, both of which beat for serious damage and prevent you from losing, Llawan only keeps you alive. Sadly, she does not even do this well, owing to the presence of Aether Vial.
The only advantage of Llawan is that she can be hardcast, and thus does not need to waste reanimation spells. The problem here is, I would rather spend my turns summoning and protecting Reanimated badasses than bringing this prissy fishy into play. Iona does not stop Merfolk on her own, and SHE at least puts the player on a 4 turn clock. Llawan adds one more effect (returning all creatures), but does nothing to stop FoW or Echoing Truth. She also cannot beat. This makes her a poor choice for the deck.

5. Engineered Explosives
Three words: Chalice of the Void. Whenever I play Stax, unless I get a FoW, they invariably drop Chalice at 1 on turn 1 or 2. That shuts down every important card in the deck except Show and Tell, Force of Will, Echoing Truth, and Krosan Grip (none of which you can find on command, because you lose Brainstorm, Study, and Tutor). If nothing else, this slow you down for at least 3 or 4 turns. When coupled with Trinisiphere or Stacks, it dooms you.
Explosives solves this problem basically for free. It also solves Crypt, Relic, and Vial. Indeed it is so good that I recommend increasing its count to 3 in your sideboard; it just gives you so much power against these dangerous cards.

The trick with merfolk is to put them on a clock while simultaneously prolonging your own life. Any creature that does this is good (Blazing Archon, Sphinx of the Steel Wind). Any creature that does one but not the other is going to be ineffective.
As to Infest, your solutions for Merfolk are going to be reanimation based (Archon/Sphinx), not spell based; as you said, the latter is too easily countered and does not actually facilitate victory. It just stops you from losing. That is not enough in the matchup. Bogardan Hellkite is a decent option here, especially if the opponent only has 1 Lord in play; allocate 2 damage to the lord and 1 damage to every other Merfolk. When Lord dies, all the others will follow. 4 for 1 deal. Bogardan becomes worse, however, when the opponent has redundant +1/+1 bonuses, but he can still take out 2 lords (3 damage to one, 2 to the other, both die). This is often all you need to give you an edge, especially when you kill a Lord of Atlantis this way.

-ktkenshinx-

That decklist is a bit dated now. Some of your points will still stand, but PJ plays a build with Daze in it now and without Intuition main. At any rate, I am sure he appreciates the different view.

that's a very old list.

Now why I do not choose sphinx MB, zoo and agro-loam are already good match-ups. Against merfolk, akroma, iona or even inkwell can do enough. A high clock and they really need the lord of atlantis to even withstand that power.

I'm concerned after Sideboarding, offcourse game 1 I can win, akroma, iona even inkwell can make it all happen fast enough.
It's not that I cannot win from merfolk, but it's by far the worst match-up. I'm looking for answers in SB to make it much better.Reanimation targets aren't what you need, you need direct answers.

Blazing archon ( waiting for bounce, sower or a counter-war you won't win fast.)
Llawan (it bounces them, you need pithing needles with her to make it work)
EE ( a very good card, but last time I got serious beatins with , muta, curse, lord, reejery) that's 0,1,2,3 mana costs...not helping a lot. Powder keg isn't solving this, but it can take out the one that must die as well ( can grow fast enough to take down the cursecatcher or the lord)

After sideboarding you can expect the following problems from merfolk
( 2-3 gy hate artifacts)
(2-4 bounce or sowers)
(0-4 spell pierce)
(0-3 back 2 basics)
combined with their FoW, cursecatchers, dazes and wastelands you are in for a whole world of pain, since they really hit you hard. I do board in the sphinx, but it's very very risky. You don't want a sower taking it away from you.

I now play the following list

8 fetch
3 underground sea
2 bayou
1 island
1 swamp

4 lotus petal

4 FoW
4 daze
3 mystical tutor
1 show and tell
1 echoing truth
3 careful study
4 thoughtseize
4 exhume
4 reanimate
4 entomb
4 brainstorm

2 iona
1 inkwell
1 empyrial
1 akroma

SB

2 EE
3 Krosan Grip
2 echoing truth
1 infest
1 sphinx
4 extirpate
1 show and tell
1 gilded drake

half of these can be replaced easily.

what my current SB options are

- infest
- gilded drake
-2 echoing truth

+ 4 disfigure

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- infest
- 2 echoing truth
-gilded drake
- EE

+2 badlands
+4 blasts

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- infest
- EE

+3 powder keg

If you want to splash red, go for Firespout.
It can wash the table out and is also useful againt every aggro deck (gobs & zoo).

But Thunder Dragon can also seal the deal even better :
- avoiding the red splash and wasting 5 or 6 slots in SB...
- gives you a 5/5 flying body

The dragon seems (on paper) the best choice to beat merfolks.

I've also added a Blazing Archon MD since my meta became very aggro (dredge is massively back).
As ktkenshinx mentionned, Archon will win you game 1 almost every time vs aggro.
For games 2 & 3, if thunder dragon get sworded or blasted, it would have accomplished his job anyway.You will then have time to reanimate a second beast..

the most concernable problem is that I meet merfolk decks that play about 11 low-costed counter-effects. ( daze, cursecatcher, spellpierce and even force)
There's no way, I can get a firespout through. If I could, then I would have no doubt in putting firespouts or pyroclasm in the deck.

I think going for single target removal and only taking out their lords is a huge step forward. takes out their islandwalk speed, some buffs and with that empyrial could go all the way again.

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Originally Posted by practical joke

I think going for single target removal and only taking out their lords is a huge step forward. takes out their islandwalk speed, some buffs and with that empyrial could go all the way again.

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The problem with Disfigure is it does not always take care of the Lord. Merfolk plays with seriously redundant +1/+1 enhancements. If just one more Lord is in play, then Atlantis is going to be out of Disfigure range.
I have been testing Snuff Out with excellent Merfolk results. Intelligent opponents make sure at least one lord is in play before playing Atlantis himself, in order to take him out of danger range. Snuff Out does not care and takes care of the Lord anyway. The 4 life loss is a small price to pay for guaranteed removal of Atlantis. If you have an Empyrial in play, then the 4 life loss won't even matter; sure your life total goes down, but with a blocking Angel out, it is unlikely that your opponent will be able to smash through his 8 toughness.
Finally, the difference between 1 CC and 0 CC is giant. These are all strong reasons to play Snuff Out over Disfigure (or other similar 1 CC removal spells).

-ktkenshinx-

I think you make a good point for snuff out,

It's a risky card to use in a reanimater deck, but if the lord stays, you'll be dead anyways.

I'll take it into serious consideration and add it to my sideboard testing list.

Am I missing something or is Inkwell terrible compared to Iona?

Given the size of our creatures, I don't expect my opponent to have relevant removal in more than one colour so Shroud seems unnecessary. It also doesn't help against edict effects.

I'd rather have one more creature that shuts down entire decks.

You've obviously never played against decks with StP and Sower. If you never expect to see them, then great. Those types of decks are on the decline with the omnipresence of zoo.

My only loss to Counterbalance in a tournament setting was against a version packing Swords, Sowers, and Maelstrom Pulse. Iona won't get there against that much multicolor removal, where Inkwell will.

I have played decks with StP and Sower myself but never encountered them... I actually thought about exactly that combination when I posted my comment but figured this wouldn't be nearly as common as sacrifice effects EDIT: or mass removal.
Maelstrom in addition does sound harsh on Iona.

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Originally Posted by Iranon

Am I missing something or is Inkwell terrible compared to Iona?

Given the size of our creatures, I don't expect my opponent to have relevant removal in more than one colour so Shroud seems unnecessary. It also doesn't help against edict effects.

I'd rather have one more creature that shuts down entire decks.

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The 43 land style decks are becoming very popular of late, Iona does nothing about maze of ith. Personally I very rarely get Inkwell and side him out very regularly but he is a much needed card unfortunatly. Besides if you open the turn one animate Inkwell is still your best choice when you don't know what your opponent is playing. Outside of those two situations Inkwell seems to get pitched to Force more than he comes into play for me atleast.

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Originally Posted by konsultant

The 43 land style decks are becoming very popular of late, Iona does nothing about maze of ith. Personally I very rarely get Inkwell and side him out very regularly but he is a much needed card unfortunatly. Besides if you open the turn one animate Inkwell is still your best choice when you don't know what your opponent is playing. Outside of those two situations Inkwell seems to get pitched to Force more than he comes into play for me atleast.

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I agree that Inkwell is the best bet in the Lands matchup. But I also really like him in the Zoo matchup.
For one, Iona MUST name White when she comes out. Otherwise she tends to get blown away by Swords or Path within 1-2 turns. Even if you are willing to risk it, bringing Iona out on turn 1 tends to put you down to 11 life. If Iona gets exiled, that leaves you in a horrible spot. Even if Swords brings your life back up, you still are down 3 cards.
For the same reason, you have to get something with Shroud. Anything without Shroud is going to get exiled as well, or at least, I am unwilling to risk a 2 card and potentially 7+ life investment on something without Shroud. Sphinx rocks in the matchup, if you have some countermagic to guard against Swords. But on turn 1 or 2, you might not, and you need to act quick with your reanimation.
So that leaves Empyrial or Inkwell. The problem with Empyrial is that a) she dies and b) she can't kill fast enough. If you leave her on defense, assume that the opponent only has a Steppe Lynx and a Nacatl in play. That means Empyrial takes 7 damage from one attack. Add in a single burn spell fired at you, or another creature, or a Lavamancer, etc. and Empyrial is gone. In a turn. That is just not worth it to me. If she attacks, she just can't outrace the opponent.
Inkwell can. He blocks the first turn he hits play, and then he wins 3 turns later. Assuming you can counter just one critical creature or spell in that period, the game should be over in your favor.

So Inkwell is powerful against Zoo as well as Lands, at least for me.

-ktkenshinx-

If you already have taht single counter ready, zoo can't do anything about the empyrial, they cannot continuesly play burn + fetch etc.

but I won't choose inkwell fast against zoo, ( depends on naya or domain)

iona (white) or iona ( red, with counterback-up) will seal the deal easily,
also the mainboard sphinx or akroma can also seal the deal very very fast against zoo.

against 43. land or any other land decks.
Get something with shroud, the opponent will be dead soon :)

Can we get a primer for this deck? I'm interested in playtesting it as I am bored with dreadstill. What are good/bad matchups? Is merfolk beatable? Also is the counterspell package with FoW better than cabal therapy and a non-counter approach?

Have you considered sundering titan? seems a good option, expecially in a deck playing daze...

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Originally Posted by raptorcardz

Can we get a primer for this deck? I'm interested in playtesting it as I am bored with dreadstill. What are good/bad matchups? Is merfolk beatable? Also is the counterspell package with FoW better than cabal therapy and a non-counter approach?

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I play the following list this is more B/U, while there is also a decent B/u deck ( much less blue influence in the deck)

( won dutch legacy nationals with a near similar list as the one below 138 attendees)

8 fetch to black ( 4 delta, 4 random)
3 underground sea
2 bayou
1 island
1 swamp

4 lotus petal ( you could play ritual here)

4 reanimate
4 exhume
4 entomb
4 thoughtseize
4 force of will
4 daze
4 brainstorm
3 mystical tutor
3 careful study
1 show and tell
1 echoing truth

2 iona, shield of emeria
1 akroma, angel of wrath
1 inkwell leviathan
1 empyrial archangel

SB///

4 extirpate
3 krosan grip
1 show and tell
1 echoing truth
4 disfigure ( still in testing, could become a snuff out)
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 gilded drake


My MU's

very good: aggro-loam, mono-color decks ( with the exception of merfolk/goblins), 43.land, staxx, landstill ( W/U, with b, it's more to decent/good), zoo ( both domain and naya)

decent ( if you think clearly, you should be able to win these most of the times): counterbalance, goblins, eva green, Team america, the rock, dreadstill, pikula, death and taxes

neutral: ichorid/dredge variants ( it requires a lot of thinking and an aggressive start, I won/lost about as many matches I played, I lost due to thinking errors combined with alcohol and lack of sleep)
-tempo *****

bad bad bad: merfolk, they have about everything reanimate hates. quick aggro, standstill, lot of counters and gy hate in sideboard. ( and unblockable)
still trying to find the perfect answer, think disfigure or snuff out will be doing a nice lot, still, the one deck you'd rather not face.


About the other deck that plays a therapy list plays a lot different, higher ammount of reanimate spells, more creatures, and putrid imps. Those are different match-ups, now since I haven't played that version in a while, I'm not really sure how some match-ups are.


@savo : yes it's considered, but not very good since it probably take down at least 1 land, and with the low ammount of landdrops in this deck, it's a risk not take. It will probably die soon enough, leaving most opponents with a decent option to find a new land and me without any land. A Risk I'm not willing to take.

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Originally Posted by practical joke

@savo : yes it's considered, but not very good since it probably take down at least 1 land, and with the low ammount of landdrops in this deck, it's a risk not take. It will probably die soon enough, leaving most opponents with a decent option to find a new land and me without any land. A Risk I'm not willing to take.

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Petradon has a similar effect and less risks. Not saying that it should be played:rolleyes:

I hope that this isn't an entirely lame question (apologies if it is!) but has anyone tried the old Benzo-style combination of zombie infestation + squee/krovikan horrors (fetched with intuition or buried alive, if you play the card)?

Alternatively contaminate + nether spirit?

It may be that the casting costs are too high (for the incredibly light mana base the deck seems, albeit obviously successfully, to run) or the impact too low, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had any experience with these other avenues of attack.

How is everyone feeling about the DnT matchup?
I thought it would be pretty good because DnT is really slow and a fast clock should avoid their whole board control problem. My opponent yesterday seemed to play around everything but Leviathan.

I've been running into vials despite Iona, swords, o-ring and mangara on non-shroud dudes, MoM + blockers that fly, and flickerwisp targeting Iona...and main deck grunts... Maybe I was just getting bad hands but the matchups seems difficult, not so much preboard but post board he gets more grave hate. It seems that Inkwell Leviathan is the only creature I could safely go for because any non-shroud guy was just o-ringed or swords, and if my opponent had vial, Iona kept running into mother of runes + serra avenger or flickerwisp, and all the non-trample guys would have run into the same problem.

Has anyone else run into similar problems?

I can't say I have had the pleasure, or displeasure of testing that match-up. It appears to be another deck where Disfigure/Snuff Out, etc would shine.

Currently, I have Massacre in the board, since the the Goblins and Merfolk in my meta tend to splash white.