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I read that earlier today and was legitimately fist pumping. It's not really a sign of a healthy format if Chalice on 1 is AS GOOD as Blood Moon, a card that historically made it so people can't cast any spells (AKA all spells that mattered cost 1). That should be alleviated a bit, and Chalice goes back to being a Good, but not Great card. Not that the bans affect me personally anyway, I'd still be playing this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by seilaquem
As happy as I am that DTT is gone, I've gotta say I'm a little sad that I have to take my Mogg Fanatics out now. That card was so good against so much of the format, I've been playing 4. There hasn't been an event for me to play it in (outside of league, in which it has been insane). This is the list I was playing for those curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard
I might drop it down to 1 or 2 or even completely depending on Deathrite's presence in the meta. Having a pretty consistent turn 1 play does feel very good though, even if it can just sometimes be a Mons Goblin Raiders.
And on something completely unrelated, I've nearly finished foiling out the creature-side of the deck (except for the Matrons, which are being altered as we speak). Just trying to track down some Onslaught foil Piledrivers and we're golden.
No, I think we're worse off with Dig out of the meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by seilaquem
Goblins is best in a narrow meta where you can plan for a short list of MUs. Dig was so ubiquitous that it essentially shrank the meta because decks were all starting to play the same with interchangeable win cons. With Dig you basically had Dig Delver variations, Miracles, Storm , and OmniTell. Now that Dig is gone there will be a wider variety of Delver decks, there will be more Tarmagoyfs (and fewer Pyromancers which were always easy to deal with), and Show and Tell decks will be more diverse (Sneak Show & OmniTell, which look at hate cards very differently).
Basically there are more unknowns in a non-DTT meta, and while that might make the format more diverse and arguably "healthier" it still hurts non-Brainstorm decks because we can't just play a higher concentration of answers like we did before.
Remember, one week ago four Sourcers happened to win their local tournaments with Goblins. I don't think that was a fluke. i think the meta was moving towards more Prison decks that were naturally good MUs for Goblins. And because so many players were playing 1/1 hordes of tokens they were less likely to run sweepers and instead ran more spot removal to break parity. This gave us an advantage. But that will be going away as players start dusting off their Goyfs again and it will return to a format with big beaters with sweepers for support.
I agree with Jon. As a joke, I replaced my Tarfire and MWM with Chalice at my local meta and did very well. The only deck I was afraid of was Omni, but with main deck Chalice and 8 additional sideboard hate, that match up became really easy. Regardless, I am happy for DTT's ban because it was pushing a great portion of the archetypes from the competitive scene.
Time to watch the top 8's of the next couple weeks. It may be time to run removal again.
Im really excited to see the meta changing again. Basically I agree with Jon's point that we we wont be as well prepared as before, and that feeling might be uncomfortable for some of us. I however love this feeling - I am excited to find out how (and if) the Winstigator Version keep it's favorable Position in the meta. Im feeling like we are more or less back where we started pre-treasure cruise, but I might be totally wrong here.
For sure the resurgence of black as a color (jund, bug and so discard, engineered plague, toxic deluge) is bad for us. On the other hand though, dig through time was an absurd magic card that let every blue deck fight goblins in the card advantage war. I'm glad that it's gone and that i can now feel favored against any fair deck if i manage to get to late game. Tarmogoyf has never been an enormous problem (just run war marshal if you aren't already doing it), the real problems will be as i said black sweepers and true name nemesis. I hope people don't start to play nemesis in massive numbers.
Most omnitell players will probably play sneak and show, and this is better for us because we have stingscourger.
So currently I've been toying with some of the following cards for goblins to test with. Just wondering if people have tried out/have some advice.
Stoneforge Mystic
I want to try a mainboard package, which I believe means running main board Karakas and more Thalia.
Mardu
Crackling Doom
Zealous Persecution
I have also been considering running mainboard ancient tombs and lotus petals/chrome mox and having a massive prison sideboard with the following.
3x Chalice of the Void
4x Trinisphere
3x Blood Moon
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Goblin Settler
2x (Up for grabs)
I have been also running mainboard crafter combo which has proven really efficient in Death and Tax matchups.
I'm still struggling with BUG Delver so any suggestions there would also be appreciated!
Happy Goblin-ing!
Hi. I run a mono red splash, from time to time i splash black, and i rarely had a problem with BUG Delver. They are a little it slower and you can grind them in the late game. I've found that Rishadan Ports (which many people don't like, but I still play 4) are pretty goodQuote:
Originally Posted by GoblinTurkey
If we are talking about global meta in my opinion tier 1 will be: lands,miracles,infect,elves, storm. Very closer to tier 1 will be TA(because cant win vs lands and miracles), S&T.
So i just back to containment priest(elves, s&t),ensnaring bridge(lands, elves, s&t) and thalia(vs storm, s&t). May be could find a room for moons(lands,bug,jund) and pyro goes to the main.
But that guy that had never played Goblins before tested 4 Ports for all of us and told us that he was going to find some nice looking mountains instead of buying Ports, why would you even bother /SQuote:
Originally Posted by owerbart
Probably because the other guy who doesnt put up good results is advocating Ports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Last time I played in a league-tournament I ended up 4th...where 75 proxies are allowed, so I actually have to play against Tier 1 decks, not weird budget decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Such horrible results.
It's also pretty lulzy that you think anecdotal evidence from someone who's never played the deck is good enough to justify calling one of the best cards ever printed, bad.
What anecdote are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
In case you are refer ring to that anecdote from my last tournament (where I ended up 1st place btw. without any ports):
1. I didnt call that anecdote 'evidence'
2. Never said that the guy has no experience with goblins.
Please quote me if I am wrong.
Also I dont think that Rishadan Port is a bad card. It's just not good enough for the deck that constantly want to have Access to 3 Red mana sources.
I've been on 4 Wastelands and 2 Ports forever. I like that mix. Ports can be helpful occasionally, especially against combo decks, but running more than 6 colorless sources just isn't possible in a deck that wants so much red.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
Is there a bug? Because I could swear there was a page 472 (in which I had a reply) and now there isn't...
It took two tries, but I finally to a legacy tourney this week that fired. The run-goods continued and I went 3-1.
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Piledriver
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
2 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
2 Skirk Prospector
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Settler
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Chrome Mox
12 Mountain
SB
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Blood Moon
R1 12 Post 2-0
G1 I overran with Gobbos. G2 was the same but Lackey cheated in Tuktuk to blow up Candelabra. I then had 3 Mana open with Blood Moon in hand, but he had 2G open as well. I was pretty sure a BM would just meet KGrip so i played an Piledriver for lethal next turn. He Expedition Mapped for Chasm and and sac'd his Forest to Chasm, letting me drop BM for the W next turn.
R2 Mentor Miracles 2-1
G1 I put on a fast clock but ran into Terminus. Then my Ringleaders put a bunch of lands on the bottom and drew me a bunch of 3-drops while I was stuck on 2 lands in play with Vial @4, so I lost. G2&3 were BOTH WON BY CHALICE OF THE VOID. Seriously. Mentor would have been a beating both games but Chalice shut off the cantrips.
R3 ANT 0-2
Yeah, ANT is brutal. I sided in the Chalices and 3Balls G2 but they didn't matter. He CT'd my Chalice T1 then pyroclasm'd my Lackey Warhcief Warchief board. I had a Trinisphere in play but no pressure so he had time and mana to dig and find bounce. Then Hurkyl's Recall bounced my Trinisphere and he went off. I've been a-fearin' hurkyl's Recall for a while since my SB is very Artifact dependant against Storm. Having more diversified hate would be great, except we can't run diversified hate without splashing colors and I'm not down with that. It's MonoR or bust. I really don't want to run Mindbreak Trap because that card is weak weak weak against anything else AND its a discard target. There are no good R creatures or enchantments to bring in against combo. REB and Pyroblast just aren't good enough against ANT. And strategies like discard require a splash.
R4 4 Color Delver 2-0
I won both games in the long game. 2 Maindeck Stingscourger reset Tombstalker TWICE G1. Running 2 continues to be awesome.
Well, that was my last tourney playing against DTT and I beat every DTT deck I played. I will miss that card because it narrowed the metagame and made everything a little more midrange which also made combo just a little worse and much less diversified. And Goblins still beats midrange decks. So now that DTT is gone the meta will open back up, combo will be kicking our asses and trying to fight it with MD Thalias will again fuck us against midrange decks or just manascrew us more often.
Let's see how it goes though, right?
ANT is still the worst MU. Once DTT is out though I think 4 Trinisphere and 3 Surgical become optional . Maybe I could cut one of each and run some Mindbreaks instead.
Gratz! I thhink Trap is a bad card vs Storm because of no surprise any more. I think we neet to play like 4 chalices,some combination of grave hate like 1 crypt,1surgic,1 relic and play not trini but thorn. If i were you and there are a lot of ants i will put 1 plateau in main and always search for it in first game to force them board in dread of night.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
I agree, mindbreak trap is not what you want. I run Thalia and Chalice MB in my build, and it pulverizes combo. I think the key to beating ANT is make sure it's really hard for them to count to 10 spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper
I like the build however, I'm currently working on a build similar to this.
Jon, have you tried Eidolon? I think a couple of those could help diversifying your hate.
Other than that, only W Leyline in monoR.