Chalice, Counterbalance, and pretty much anything blue. Shusher is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by asfas
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Chalice, Counterbalance, and pretty much anything blue. Shusher is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by asfas
You'll see some people do. I think needle is one of the most meta-dependent cards, so I choose not to run it. I'm not sure I'd take it into a blind meta, but it's not a bad choice by any means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasher
I've always ran 4 Needle in the board. It's amazing against so much shit. I usually find myself naming Wasteland, then Top, in that order. I hate land destruction as it is and alot of decks play Wasteland and try and get your red sources. And that is a lose, lose situation. Plus Needle stops Deed, Shackles, Belcher, Mishra's Factory, it's a versatile card.
I would play needles if I owned any... :(
Awh. FML:frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryLIKEALION
Needle vs. Null Rod
Obviously needle gets Deed, Wasteland and Planes Walkers not to mention any other non-mana activated ability for only 1.
However, especially in the case of Planes Walkers you often lose your needle to an EE. Top, Shackles, vial, Grindstone, Belcher and artifact acceleration are all stopped by Null Rod to name a few.
Null Rod has been run at one point, but with the widespread acceptance of 4 Qusali Pridemages in the MD is there a reasonable amount of protection from artifacts such that the lower CC and pinpoint targeting of needle outweighs Null Rod's complete hosing of artifacts?
Hello,
do you think the new Lands Feeding Grounds and Naya from Zendikar can played in Zoo?
What? You might want to catch up on recent Magic news. Those are planes, not lands. They're for use in a new version of casual multiplayer Magic. Called Planechase. You should've already heard about it.
Ooooh, my mistake xD sry.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeroenC
so i am not the only one who plays needle SB.I got crushed in the last tourney by EE,Countertop,jitte and deed so i'll play the full set of needles to own these cards.I got my 4th needle by a kid,i saw he played it naming master of etherium :laugh: LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
I think for my build, that Needle would be better than NullRod. I already run 4 Pridemage, plus 3 to 4 Ancient Grudge in the SB. Plus i like my MD Jitte too. NullRod seems better in a random meta too. Shutting down random stuff.
And for the most part, i use Needle to stop Wasteland, my hate for that land is beyond any other magic card ever printed. Fuck LD.
EDIT: I saw a kid name Teferie with Needle. Pretty hilarious.
Hey folks, I’ve read this thread in its entirety and had to sign up to throw in my 2 cents.
I’m new to the format, with the standard and extended seasons gone, I mostly only play Limited even though there is a strong Legacy scene around. I figured it wouldn’t be as expensive as Standard in the long run, as it is far less dynamic, and as my extended deck was Zoo, I am converting to Legacy because of the rotation. From everything that I have read, I have compiled a decklist of what I considered to be the most valid points regarding the strongest cards for the optimal Zew build. A discussion would be swell, but since this is basically a “Best Of” decklist of the thread, a lot of points might already be mute. Here goes:
Creatures 23
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Isamaru
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Knight of the Reliquary (another semi-pet card. I prefer him at 2 over 2 throctars)
2 Watchwolf
Curve: 1 drops = 10, 2 drops = 10, 3 drops = 3
Spells 17
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix (a 4 of to offset pain from Library)
2 Sylvan Library
2 Cursed Scroll (A pet card of mine since its printing. <3 . I think it Is better than Grim ‘Mancer because it is a lil more difficult to remove)
4 Path to Exile (My choice over Swords. I wanna stick to the game plan and do my 20 asap)
Curve: 1cc = 10, 2cc = 6
I figured I’d rather draw 2 1cc cards off of library than a 2cc/etc, thus the 1cc curve is the highest.
Land 21 (9 are fetchlands, thus food for KotR)
3 Taiga
3 Savannah
3 Plateau
1 Bloodstained Mire (in place of Canopy, thins out the deck and can be somewhat of a decoy)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Sideboard isn’t exactly made up. I am new to the format, so before an event I try to walk around and snoop out the competition before the decklists are submitted and make changes accordingly. Cards I like for the sideboard are as follows, but aren’t limited to:
Mr. Teeg (whom I prefer over Cannonist)
Needle
Relic of Progenitus (I value the cantrip more than the free Crypt)
Pyrostatic Pillar ( ^_^ )
Jitte
Choke
Vexing Shusher
Null Rod
*Greater Gargadon (I’m on the fence with this one. It is a port over from Ichorid’s sideboard. It is R to suspend, and against anything that causes board disruption, it is a huge clock. Sac lands to Big Red instead of letting them get Wasted/Stripped. Sac critters to fizzle STP/PtE. Sac your Jitte/Scroll to fizzle hate and/or speed the clock. And come late game, you get a big ol’ fatty. I would consider siding this in in replace of Isamaru/Watchwolf)
Also: No Grudge or Grip, Pridemage is that utility that can beat. Enough for me. Although I could be persuaded otherwise
Since I’ll be going into a blind meta coming next tournament, Im gonna take all of these and then make a last minute scribble on the decklist for the ‘board. It’ll probably be something like the following because I know of people who play countertop, goblins, and tendrils. I also will take my Ichorid build (of which I am a fan, so fun to play) and keep it in the holster for a last minute switch if I scout a real lack of combo/control.
Before any of you hate on the lack of burn; I added utility spells like Scroll (it’s still burn) and Library and a Jitte in 5 slots solely for the mid/late game. The rest of the deck is geared to start off turn one with meat on the table. Burn is either spot removal, or kept in hand for a finish. Plus, this is RGW Zoo, not goyfsligh as has been stated many times
The only real new thing in this list is the Gargadon. I haven’t been able to test it much, but I think it is worth a shot. If any of you are curious as to its potential, sleeve it up for a few games and post back.
@jandax: Your list looks ALOT like my old one, so I'll give it a thumbs up. I wouldn't run a 1of Jitte though, Maybe another Knight since you can reliably get the mana to cast him. Jitte is amazing, it's just too random i guess. I like your manabase, it's the exact same as mine. People will try and convince you to run Canopy, but don't listen, It's miserable with Ape and Nacatyl. Scroll will always be strong, and it is way harder to remove than Lavamancer. Plus, it scares them into bringing in Grip, and you can just board em out worse case scenario.
I would run a 2/2 split of Teeg and Cannonist. Teeg is good in other matchups, and Cannonist just shuts down combo, and in my opinion is good against Sui-Black, Eva Green variants. Prevents Dark Ritual shenanigans. I've been testing Pillar alot more lately bc it had potential, but I'm not really liking it. It's another combo hate card, and hoses Enchantress, but I'd rather run Needle or Null Rod, prolly Needle in your case since you run Jitte and Scroll. And i would also highly suggest Ancient Grudge, but that depends on your meta, so it's your call.
Aye, it should look alot like your list. The manabase I basically copied. I too agree that canopy just doesn't cut it, it seems stale to me, and Sylvan Library is way better at cantrip functions. Plus, the Mire is a good target for sideboarding out and thins the deck when it stays in. Basically in my eyes, that mire is a utility land that works better than Canopy. You only loose one life, you keep your Apes/Kitties fat and happy, you can side it out in a pinch w/o an impact on the manabase....leaps and bounds. Leaps and bounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
Pillar is another hate card that sticks to the decks main function of 20 DMG NAO! Pillar + Mr. Teeg/Cannonist = good results.. I'm shy to cut this one from contention. Yet I see how Grudges/Needles should have a spot.
My meta is popularized by Fish (fae/wizards/merfolk), Countertop, ANT, and perhaps the random agro archetype. I also play Ichorid for this reason. Hardly anyone plays it to my knowledge and its surprise factor is enough to win games in matchups that are unfavorable.
This is a good primer, LB, you know your deck
Edit: also what do you think about Greater Gargadon in the board? He's only worth it in the opening hand I think, but he shines in Ichorid to removal cards and is a huge hunk of meat that CIP at instant speed if you come across sweepers/lots of spot removal. Also he's imune to countertop. Seriously, all your op. seems to see is that 9/7 creature with a diminishing number of suspend counters. He focuses on it too much too often, and this can be exploited.
@jandax: Thanks for the kudos. Me and Pulp worked hard on it. Too bad he only plays combo now :tongue:
But I'm way too skeptical about Gargadon to be honest.. like you said he only seems good in your opening seven, and he doesn't really help the decks gameplan ya know?? He is fat as hell sure, but he takes time, and the deck doesn't like taking time. If Landstill or more sweepers keep popping up in your meta, i could see him MAYBE being run at best.
Everyone is going apeshit over Sylvan Library so i think I'll test it out some before i make snap judgments this time. I actually could see myself liking that card. As a two of makes me kinda uneasy, i know you only need to see one, but wouldn't three be the comfy number??
Also, if your meta is mostly Fish, run some Pyroclasm out of the board. It's amazing. Rapes Goblins more than you already do too.
I can't wait to see the replies on Canopy vs Mire. Haha
Yeah, I forgot about pyroclasm. Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
As far as three of Sylvan, I am not sure. It is one of those cards you only want to see once, if at all. I think that loosing one creature for an extra copy doesn't help as much as it'd hurt.
As far as canopy vs. mire is concerned, I see the canopy as a neutered land type, it doesn't help your apes/kitties at all. it is a perpetual pain land where Mire stings you once, and it seems to me that its cantrip ability replaces its suckiness. No thanks, it isn't for me. I could understand running a few if you didn't have Sylvan in the deck, but since I do, the point is mute.
And as far as gargadon goes, you're probably right. He fits better in Ichorid than in Zoo, sometimes it is easy to loose focus. I'm trying to get into the habit of asking myself "Will this help me do my 20 dmg asap?" before cutting cards from teh main and board. This card definitely helps me do my 20, but not asap. In the end it buys time for the opponent to clean up, while providing you a utility outlet for removal of your own side of the board.
For a third Sylvan you could replace the lone Jitte. Your chance of drawing 1 Jitte is slim.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
As for the Canopy, I think you're looking at it as a first turn drop. I think it's meant to be an extra G/W mana source if and when you need it, but more importantly, it is meant to be a way to "cycle" a land when you are in mid-game and needn't so much land. You can trade a Canopy for a threat, or at least mill your deck by one card, bringing you closer to the next threat.
I don't think Mire is going to cause confusion often. Running only one, how often will it be your first turn drop and how long will it be before you use it, fetch for a dual and play an Ape/Kittie? 30 Seconds? :smile: I think it'll be pretty easy for your opponent to see you're playing Zoo.
I didn't really mean for the Mire to be a psych out card, I mean even BR is on color for the deck. In the end I'll still leave it in there, simply out of preference. And consider the singleton Jitte from my aforementioned list to be replaced with a 3rd Knight as suggested by LB. Makes more sense, and it is still a good top deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMogg
But adding a third Knight just gives you another creature in an already creature heavy deck. Adding a Library may mean the difference between drawing one and not, in which case it would add tremendous advantage in keeping up momentum. A lot of people say you don't want to draw more than one, but that is assuming that there is nothing to disrupt it. Maybe test both builds and see. I was running two Scrolls and literally never drew them. Two ofs in Zoo can be difficult to draw. :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
@MMogg: My problem with Canopy is, you don't need any extra GW sources. Savannah is the land i like to see the least. I'm thinking about cutting one for another Mire anyway. Lots of fetches for the Knight and helps get the basic R which is needed in some matchups.
I could only see Sylvan Library hurting you in multiples in your opening hand. Worst case you could scry it away with the first one, or have another when your opponent destroys the first. Letting one of those stick seems like a nightmare for the opponent.
I always saw my Scroll when i ran 2 of em. Seriously. Haha.