I love Engineered explosives, and would definitely put it in any Supreme Blue maindeck.
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I love Engineered explosives, and would definitely put it in any Supreme Blue maindeck.
You are playing CB/Top. You *will* get into losing situations whether you want to or not, simply because you spent time/mana/cards on establishing the CB/Top soft-lock and your opponent spent their time/mana/cards playing threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan
Even if you land something like CB/Top and Goyf, you will be in situations where you are facing 2 Goyfs. Or you are facing Goyf + Exalted. Or you are facing Knight of the Reliquary. Or you are facing Goyf + Grim Lavamancer. And these are just the things that Zoo can throw at you, much less the dozens of other viable decks in the field.
Clique is not a bad card, but it does not handle poor board positions.
Doesn't Supreme blue already run firespouts?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShine
Yes it runs in maindeck , and that is (until now) the best way to deal with merfolks , goblins and zoo.But I'm looking for a better way to deal with this 3 or at least 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by evilgorrilaz
Another day of testing , I was brainstorming with myself and found a couple of ideas and results:
1. NO + Progenitus (except on T3) don't help againts Goblins and Merfolks , so i just think that is no the way CB list should go.( NO seems like a extra-win , when goyf or RWM would do the job and the 3cc became too few).
2.Control magic effects against tribals are too slow or aren't good enought ( my last list was tested and I found that).
3.Should we play more versatile creatures so they can trade with opponents key creatures or cards? (maybe Qasali Pridemage or Wall of roots?)
4.Running some basic so you don't get wastelanded on T1 , T2 so you can fetch and Firespout on T3 , T4 ?( I'm going to go back to original list with some SB changes to deal with GBW rock and mirrors and see the results)
So , has anyone a good idea or a thought about it? And did anyone played CB + NO (w/ Wall of Roots) and get some good impressions?
Thx once more guys.
I play Wall of Blossoms for the card advantage... I don't really like the green mana provided by Wall or Roots.
But the deck needs a finisher and Natural Order-Progenitus is pretty much the best around and goes pretty well in the deck.
I used to play Supreme Blue that the guy from Japan played, Trygon Predators (maybe Sower I don't remember) and although I did pretty good with the list, it came to the point where I needed a way to win a game sometimes, but the ground was clogged up. I don't play exalted, nor do I want to, so if the opposing person has goyfs nobody can really do anything; aside from drawing Swords. And War Monks are great at swinging zoo/aggro matchups, but they are hardly a great win condition.
I think the creature base is fine, but hard to get there versus some decks...and that is where Natural Order comes into play.
hello. we made a little out of nowhere legacy "tournament" (we were 8 players) and i decided to test my little different list.
1st: the list
3 tundra
3 tropical island
3 volcanic island
3 misty rainforest
3 flooded strand
1 island
1 plains
1 forest
4 tarmogoyf
3 rhox war monk
3 swans of bryn argoll
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 spell snare
3 daze
4 force of will
3 counterbalance
3 senseis divining top
3 chain of plasma
3 swords to plowshares
1 lightning storm
3 firespout
2nd: the sideboard
2 engineered explosives
4 relic of progenitus
2 blue elemental blast
2 hydroblast
3 krosan grip
2 trygon predator
(yes, i don't play no/progenitus, 'cause i don't have orders and i played against a fast progenitus and i didn't loose to it, so i decided to try it without them.)
3rd: the parings
game 1 (bgr [discard, burn, ld])
r1: i had a medium hand with a top and no counters, but war monk, stp and chain. (i know he often plays aggressive decks.) i was on the play and had just the top. turn 2 he summoned a confidant which i killed with stp end of turn. i got a swans from top and played the war monk. he killed it instantly with terminate. in his turn he played a kird ape and a tarmogoyf. i showed my swans the battlefield and after he attacked once, i played eot the chain of plasma at swans and comboed him out of game.
- 3 spell snare (i didn't see anything other then creatures)
- 1 chain of Plasma
+ 2 hydroblast
+ 2 blue elemental blast (i thought, that he would play sligh with black)
r2: i don't remember my hand, but i didn't draw anything other than lands. just bad. i got a cb online and got the sdt from top, but it was to late and i died by 2 goyfs. i saw some discard. (2 blightning were to much for me)
r3: short. turn 1 sdt. turn 2 cb. then 3 goyfs next turns countering anything he got.
1-0-0
game 2 (rg vialless goblins [a good friend])
we decided to draw, before we played 2 rounds.
r1: quick. he played lackey i stp it, then facing an instigator. i can only play sdt and hope for help, but finding only a cb. hm...to late. got bashed by a siege-gang + piledriver, finding no firespout/goyf/stp/chain which had bought me some time.
- 2 ponder
- 1 daze
- 1 spellsnare
+ 2 blue elemental blast
+ 2 hydroblast
r2: i had 3 blast and a goyf, which was enough. he had a wasteland, but it doesn't matter. killed 2 lackey with blasts, wiped once with firespout and won with a goyf and a monk.
1-0-1
we wanted to make a 3rd round, but the rest was ready.
game 3 (ant [another good friend])
r1: he starts and comboed turn 2 with chant. i needed a 3rd blue card to pitch for fow. had a force+spell snare. he needed cabal ritual to get 5 mana, so it realy needed only a 3rd blue card...
- 3 firespout
- 4 stp
- 1 chain of plasma
+ 2 engineered explosives (to get mana artifacts)
+ 2 hydroblast
+ 2 blue elemental blast (for having more pitch-cards)
+ 2 krosan grip (for the artifacts[mainly sdt] too)
r2: i got an turn 1 brainstorm, puting a cb and a sdt on top. i played the balance from my hand. he wants to ponder, i show him the top from the library. i play the top and a fetchland. he gives up.
r3: he plays land ponder and i noted my hand: volcanic island, island, ponder, fow, spellsnare, goyf, hydroblast. i play volcanic go. he try to combo, by playing a chant which i counter with force, then he plays 2 led's and an infernal tutor, i play my snare. i draw then a cb and the next turn a volcanic, playing both, but...missing green mana for the goyf, but having a dead grip...then he try his combo again and i luck a ponder which counters his start ritual. i play ponder and find a fetchland and explosives. after a short time i 1st take the explosives and destroy his led's, 'cause he would only need to play an infernal tutor on this board to win. the next turn i use the rainforest to get a tropical island and the turn after this i draw a sdt and my friend gives up again.
2-0-1
a really small, but quick tournament, but was ok. really wanted a 2nd try on my friends goblins...he got red blasts to oppose mine, but had none of them in round 2. maybe next time.
this was it. any thoughts?
So, I really like this deck. I am planning on building it when I can afford to. This is the list that I am planning
Creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Rhox War Monk
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Progenitus
1 Trygon Predator
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshare
3 Daze
3 Natural Order
Enchanments
4 Counterbalance
Artifacts
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard
3 Krosan Grip
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Hydroblast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Trygon Predator
Thoughs? Criticism? Questions? Im all ears. :P
Seems solid...I don't think you need 3 Grips and 2 more Predators sideboard though.
I'm thinking that do we really need 4-of blue blasts against red decks or could we just split with path to exile to fight against merfolks? They could be still sided againt goblins to answer their 1st turn plays / piledriver and other guys. Or do we just have to force EE@2 against merfolks and try to race :P
I think you need the 4 BEB effects personally to help fight Zoo. If you don't land a Counterbalance you need to be able to fight burn especially Fireblast and Price of Progress.
What you bring from sideboard against zoo? BEB/Hydroblast obiously but do you have EE:s? Just wondering do you side out FoWs for 4x beb/hydro and then some EE:s for their 1-drops..Quote:
Originally Posted by psu42
I used to play Paths but don't anymore and I also don't play Explosives, I just don't like them in the deck. I just bring in the 4 blasts and take out the War Monks and a Daze (especially on the draw) or something else I don't think I need. Firespout is hard to take great advantage of in games 2 and 3 so maybe one of those.
I'm just curious how people would sideboard against Armageddon Stax or Dragon Stompy. I hate those decks. How would you board against them and what would your gameplan be?
Trygon Predator. 4 copies if need be.Quote:
Originally Posted by j-flo
A couple copies of Grip isn't too bad either.
What do you guys think about these budget countertop lists, found it on deckcheck. (It doesn't play goyf!! :cool:). I've put it together and it seems like a solid and affordable list. There is a similar list which has Ponder instead of Daze.
creature [12]
4 Aquamoeba
2 Arrogant Wurm
4 Wild Mongrel
2 Wonder
instant [22]
4 Brainstorm
4 Circular Logic
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
sorcery [2]
2 Deep Analysis
enchantment [3]
3 Counterbalance
artifact [3]
3 Sensei's Divining Top
land [18]
2 Breeding Pool
4 Flooded Strand
3 Forest
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Echoing Truth
3 Krosan Grip
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Tormod's Crypt
Any comments on it? Trops and Tundras would be an obvious improvement so lets ignore that.
Probably should be a different thread for a budget list...a budget list isn't exactly a deck to beat.
Im just curious... Is the red splash (or white over black) really worth it then? You board out the cards that are supposed to be there for the Zoo matchup. I understand that Firespout is good against other decks, but so are other cards. And again, I really hate the monk ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by psu42
I dislike the red blasts more and more because of how the zoolists are today. The threats that stay in play are the ones to be worried about.. and BeB kills only lavamancer. It's a must against stompy/goblins though so I won't dismiss them completely.Quote:
What you bring from sideboard against zoo? BEB/Hydroblast obiously but do you have EE:s? Just wondering do you side out FoWs for 4x beb/hydro and then some EE:s for their 1-drops..
I realy like Submerge. It's sometimes a timewalk for 0 mana or atleast removal for 0 because of all the fetches.
You can even put the lynx on top after they've fetched if they run dry on lands :) It's also a great sideboardcard for the mirror!
I feel the matchups against dredge, reanimate and storm are solid. But im a bit worried about other combo (or almost combo) decks like goblins/elves. Im also highly unfavoured against Ur faeries. I need some kind of sweeper.
The problem with sweepers in my list is 1) the colors im in) the highly unsatisfied play to follow a confidant/counterbalance up with a sweeper of some kind. First of, this made me rethink the Engineered explosives and trinket mages in my deck.
They serve no real purpose besides beeing "good and tutorable". Im going to try without them in them in favor of 2 Counterspell and a third ponder (playing the 8th fetch over academy ruins and 4th leyline over tormod's crypt in the board).
So with the hard matchups above and no sweeper whatsoever I decided to try 2 engineered plagues in the board.
Even if im the only one still playing ugb, could you please let me know what you think of the list? =)
Besides that I hope to dodge merfolk.
edit: the list...
4 misty rainforest, 4 polluted delta, 4 underground sea, 4 tropical island, 3 island, 1 swamp
4 brainstorm, 3 ponder, 4 sensei's divning top, 3 spell snare
4 counterbalance, 4 tarmogoyf, 4 dark confidant, 2 counterspell, 3 diabolic edict
2 vedalken shackles, 3 vendilion clique
4 fow
sb: 3 submerge, 3 blue elemental blast, 3 leyline of the void, 2 krosan grip, 2 duress, 2 engineered plague.
Right now the things im thinking about are:
1) I have a lot (too many?) 2-drops.
2) Are krosan grips (or artifact/enchantmenthate) really something we need? besides mirror and perhaps aether vials (and the random enchantressdeck) there are not many targets to warrant the slots in the board.
against zoo?Quote:
Originally Posted by psu42
I'd board in a 2nd playset for sure if I could... it's your strongest weapon against any aggro strategy - boarding out all Dazes makes sense, though.
Well it isn't that I didn't like Path, I just felt I needed to address other decks more and ended up cutting them. Path is obviously amazing versus aggro decks like Zoo.
It also hits their burn what could be crucial to lose or win match (see Price of progress and fireblast). Also bebs are usefull against vexing shushers if zoo/burn player is playing them. Zoo lists also usually play kird ape, so im fine blasting if im going to resolve turn 2 balance on play. You could also use blue blasts against belcher if you don't run spell pierces in side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan