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K, sorry, I'm done. It's just very amusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
I see...Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
Hmm, well if I drop the Concordants', I don't know how I'd feel about running Priest of Titania/Archdruid. Seems haste is necessary for those. Would either of those still be valid main board choices without Crossroads?
Also, I posted above:
I saw someone running Gaea's Herald instead of Leyline on the side. Seemed interesting, but likely it's inferior. Am I right? Thoughts?
They are both still valid since both can set up a turn 3 combo. I find archdruid more valid since he can also let you go aggro. It's debatable though, I was toying around with the idea of running more warcallers main instead of archdruids, but ultimately the archdruids prove more reliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by InResponseForceOfWill
Gaea's Herald has the advantage of not hurting the combo when it is sided in, but it can be countered. If you want to go that route, vexing shusher is the better option
Also, your username owns.
I'm looking at your SB here:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
1 Masticore
1 Regal Force
1 Terastodon
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Viridian Shaman
I think it's interesting that you run a Warcaller in the MB and the SB. I'd likely drop the one on the side for a Elvish Champion. The global forestwalk ability seems it'd be a nice thing to wish for against decks running green.
Also, what's with the Masticore? Do you just use it for the 2cc 1 dmg abililty? I'm probably overlooking something. Do you wish him out often? Under what circumstances and against what?
I really like this deck after watching some worlds games. if you guys had to pick one which is the most consistent deck list?
A lord in the side is necessary, and while elvish champion's forestwalk ability is super awesome, I like being able to make warcaller a lord, or use it to turn living wish into a 3 CMC creature in order to continue comboing when necessary, then I can bounce it with a symbiote and recast it as a lord.Quote:
Originally Posted by InResponseForceOfWill
Masticore kills creatures that stop you from winning such as peacekeeper, blazing archon, and the like. He is there to make sure you don't have to scoop against these creatures because we do not have any removal.
@46nTool- Generally there is debate between my list and Nihil's list as to which is the most consistent. Other good variants tend to be very close to our lists. I have been very happy to hear a great number of successful tournament reports from players using my list (like the one on the previous page). I'd love for these to continue!
using your deck as a template i sorta changed it to a budget version for 125 bucks. did i take any crucial pieces out?
Deck List
Artifact
1 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Green
4 x Birchlore Rangers
3 x Elvish Archdruid
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Fyndhorn Elves
4 x Glimpse of Nature
4 x Heritage Druid
1 x Joraga Warcaller
4 x Llanowar Elves
4 x Nettle Sentinel
4 x Quirion Ranger
1 x Regal Force
4 x Summoner's Pact
4 x Wirewood Symbiote
Land
14 x Forest
Ahh, yesss. Excellent points. Makes total sense. Before I go out and buy a Masticore, what other creatures could fill this same spot, if any?Quote:
Originally Posted by k2thej
Looks like a solid budget version to meQuote:
Originally Posted by 46nTool
@FOW- any sort of removal can, usual either Masticore or Molten-tail Masticore, but I find Masticore to be the better option since you don't need creatures in your graveyard to use him and you can ping smaller guys for less mana.
Masticor is definetly one of the best creatures in the side. It is hard to kill (like Steven Segal) and it can give you and edge against creature decks.
This deck is really super consistent. You basicaly run only glimpse and creatures and tutor for creatures. Since this deck doesent run Priest of Titania you need to see only one land all game.
I hope I will be able to report about other glorious victories of this awesome deck.
43 players and Prague's meta:
http://www.cernyrytir.cz/index.php3?akce=2001&ukcl=126
Looks like the list post 1 page back? The winner even posted a report ;)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Koplinchen
I apologize for my ignorance, but how does this deck win without Glimpse of Nature? I randomly threw a list together on Cockatrice after playing aggro elves for over two years and I don't understand what you do while you wait to draw a Glimpse. Once you do, what do you do if it is countered? The backup is a solid swarm strategy, but if you don't have Glimpse in the starting hand then it seems like the aggro plan would get steamrolled by decks like Zoo and Goblins.
I understand that the deck puts up pretty good results, so I must be missing something here...
@TossUsToLions: you can use Elvish Visionary as a back-up to work through your deck with the interaction between wirewood symbiote while you find the glimpse to get rolling.
or tutor for any other bomb like regal force ;)
with 1st turn mana elf & quiron 2nd turn or birchlore/heritage & nettle you are very often able to play a lot of elves turn 2 (if you dont have glimpse).you put pressure on your opponent aggro which makes him think & react/respond. Then you can top-deck a lot of good thing like glimpse, whish, lord, symbiote, visionary.Quote:
Originally Posted by TossUsToLions
Symbiote is a great card because in these games and a must kill for most opponents because:
- bounce visionary to draw cards,
- protect important elves
- block & bounce
- supports the combo by bouncing & untapping for mana
I think the good thing vs. Zoo/Goblin type decks is that they always have to worry not to get another turn and therefore focus on killing some elves, which hurts us not that much as it slows them down.
Is there any primer for this deck about opening hands and sideboarding strategy ? I seem to be missing this kind of intel. We all can make a list tuned to our prefference. Playing the deck is where is gets harder imo.
has anyone thought of using priest of titania with a lighting greaves in the deck?
edit: and possibly elvish spirit guide?
Strength of the deck lies in not relying on drawing any one specific card. This is why Priests/Archdruids have taken a backseat strategy in the builds. Playing priest is already a wasted lord spot, and then on top of that you also need to draw lightning greaves to make her useful, but if you have greaves without priest it is a dead card, and if you have priest you will generally wish it was an archdruid.Quote:
Originally Posted by 46nTool
@TossUsToLions: It is actually quite rare that you go 3 turns without seeing a glimpse if you are trying to maximize your card draw with visionaries or dump your hand to cast a regal force. That being said, when it does happen, there are many aggro plays you can make. Here is the most common one I make, or something similar to this depending on what I have in hand.
Turn 1- Land, llanowar
Turn 2- Quirion, Heritage, bounce forest to untap llanowar, replay forest, Tap 3 elves for GGG, summon Elvish Archdruid and play him with floating mana, play another guy with the untapped forest.
Turn 3- Tap Archdruid to pay for pact. Tap forest to play another dude, Bounce it to untap archdruid. Play another dude if you have one with the other forest. Swing for 10.
Turn 4- Play any more guys you have or summon another lord to play, swing for 12 or more.
Turn 4 is an aggro clock that is the same speed as Zoo. This deck is very capable of out aggroing zoo, goblins, merfolk, and pretty much anything else.
Hello k2thej.
I wan't say thanks for your advice about the Mutavault (with a few more games it also seems useless.) It has been replaced by a fetch land since 3 normal lands seems enough and more basics hurt our glimpse-draw chances of hitting a land. I'm happy though it was the only thing you found weird in the list ;b I would love if anyone else also would give my list a look. (I'm about to buy the rest of the cards and would love to save some money on wasted cards. ;))
Lands:
Wooded Foothills x1
Misty Rainforest x2
Windswept Heath x2
Verdant Catacombs x1
Savannah x1
Forest x3
Penalhaven x1
Gaea's Cradle x4
Horizon Canopy x1
-----16-----
Creatures:
Heritage Druid x4
Llanowar Elves x2
Fynhorn Elf x2
Arbor Elf x2
Quirion Ranger x2
Birchlore Rangers x4
Nettle Sentinel x4
Elvish Visionary x4
Viridian Zealot x1
Wirewood Symbiote x4
Regal Force x1
Eternal Witness x1
-----31-----
Spells:
Glimpse of Nature x4
Summoner's Pact x4
Living Wish x3
Grapeshot x1
Crop Rotation x1
-----13-----
Deck size:
-----60-----
SB (Might need fixing):
x1 Gaddock Teeg
x1 Viridian Zealot
x1 Emrakul, The Aeons Thorn
x4 Leyline of Lifeforce
x4 Thorn of Amethyst
x1 Caller of Claws
x1 Joraga Warcaller
-----13-----
Deck + SB
-----73-----
I must admit, I miss somekind of card in the SB that keeps my combo going (like an elvish visionary or something? anyone share the same feeling. 3 wishes just feels like alot of all of them are looking upon a "protection card."
I'll might give the 3 cradles a try and move one to SB also to make a wish-target. After all, my rotation is able to switch a Gaea's in if needed.Maybe two rotations would be to much for the deck. Alot of questions equals... More testing ;)
Would adding blue hurt the deck? just been thinking about it a few times...
What would it add to the deck:
Basicly I feel that we could replace a few if not all visionarys with coiling Oracles. Oracles seems VERY powerful to me. They can add free lands unto the battlefield. Which means a Brainstorm turns into free spell that draws you 3 cards if you have a land (after the 3 cards added) in your hand and a Oracle. Since you can put the land back on top with the spell and play the Oracle to put it onto the battlefield. It also makes our Fetch lands gain functions besides thinning the deck. And would be nice to "cheat a Horizon Canopy or Gaea's Cradle into play." and after just return the Oracle to the hand with a Wirewood Symbiote and add another land to the battlefield etc. (or if a creature is needed just trigger a fetch lands and draw a "non Brainstorm--mordified card instead".)
-Coiling Oracles good sides: They turn lands hit by their "comes onto the battlefield effect" into mana = fuel to the deck. (if not draws (Horizon Canopy.)
-Coiling Oracles bad sides: They reveal the card which hurt us against dredge (more specificly Cabal Therapy) and can land our second gaea's cradle which destroy our own. (The chances of this will ofc be reduces alot of brainstorm and other engines is added.)
The way our blue mana could be added onto the deck could be:
add 4 Arbor elves in the deck in place of the Llanowar elves. (may untap a forest = Tropical islands) + Our Birchlore Elves can add any colour (which includes blue ofc.) combined with the Fetch lands ofc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beautiful-Decay
Haha I mean it's not the ONLY thing. I do think cradles (especially 3 or 4), witness, running multiple wincons, arbor elf instead of more llanowar, and horizon canopy are generally suboptimal MD in combo, but you can see how it tests.
I don't want people to take this the wrong way, but I generally think that any differences from my list are less sub optimal. I think this because I tried to make my build as efficient and consistent as it could possible be. If I thought a change that someone suggested was better than what I had, I would obviously make the change in my build, so clearly I think the changes to your list should essentially move it to mine, but again, test it and see what you like.
Coiling oracle would be great, so would mask of the mimic. The problem is generating blue mid combo. Tapping 2 elves for birchlore is far from optimal when you want to be tapping them for heritage and are often tight with the numbers you can tap. Lands are also usually tapped out so the blue couldn't really come from then except at the start. I thought about this for a while too though.
Just out of curiosity, I'm not new to Elf Combo, I saw it's first days of creation when Glimpse was first printed and Legacy was still considered Type 1.5, but I am new to piloting it. I just recently acquired key components of the deck (all but Pact of Summoning), but since it's capable, why not consider using Biorhythm? Sometimes it kills your opponent, other times it'll put them well within killing range and see minimal hindrance to yourself.