Printable View
Your too simplistic about it. The ability to make everything a mountain (turn 2!) in combination with wasteland is very good. Yes it dies to removal. So does metalworker. But its amazing against more then one color decks. Why you bring welder in it? I dont use welder. I dont use faithless looting either. Dont be racsist prejudice against red mud :pQuote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
And a 2/2 still can be equipped by my mvp godo
In combination with Wasteland... Uh how do you use Wasteland for its intended purpose when it's a Mountain? lol. My landbase is Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Darksteel Citadel, and Cavern of Souls. Literally all of those are made worse by Magus. And if you don't use welder or looting what do you use?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Certain cards in the game require a certain order of play. Like destroying a dual land with wasteland then playing magus. That hurts. You obviously dont get the staxesque way mud works. It involves dropping roadblocks like lodestone chalice and magus, while accelerating yourself. Should watch dragon stompy and see why magus shines there.
Who cares all ur lands become mountains if it wins you the game?
Wasteland and Blood Moon have the same purpose -> Hating on non-basics.
Yes so if you run wasteland anyway why not add moon effects. Its a choice with ups and downs but i feel it fits my deck because i chose to run godo anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Currently i have also been experimenting with a manland version: 4 factory 4 mutavault + all the other rishadan port, wasteland, sol lands etc. Thats a lot of land but it could work with enough equipment. Anyone tried something similiar?
Except for the fact that Dragon Stompy sucks. It's horribly inconsistent and a bad deck. Also, MUD Stompy is not a stax deck. Stax is a stax deck. Do some research. I'd much rather drop Wurmcoil Engine or Steel Hellkite alongside my Chalices and Lodestone Golems rather than crap like Magus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Imperial painter also runs moon effect. That deck is quiet a bit more successful than dragon stompy. MUD runs resistors and other speedbumps in order to capitalize on that with big beaters. Stax is a deck that turns the softlock into a hardlock, which is not the aim of this deck. Alex Holland is using the correct name for the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
Red offers a lot of wiggle room that mono brown does not have. Moon Effects, Red Elemental Blast, efficient sweepers (Bonfire/Firespout/Rolling Earthquake), Sulfur Elemental, and even things like Shattering Spree. It comes at a cost, but it also provides advantages.
I get what you're saying but painter does not require much mana to play its important things; MUD does. Crippling your sol lands doesn't help with that. And the concept of MUD Stompy is that your threats are bigger and better than the opponent's (Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite, Sundering Titan). Anything red sweepers would deal with is inherently dealt with by your creatures' greater stats. Wurmcoil Engine makes Nimble Mongoose, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge Mystic, and all the rest look like crap. Plus if you play a sweeper it kills your Magus too, which seems bad to me. Plus Magus does nothing if your opponent already has guys in play. Big threats like the ones I just mentioned stop the opponent's attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
P.S. I beat Red MUD with my MUD Stompy list all the time.
This. Magus and Bloodmoon are HORRIBLE in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
That's interesting because I have very little troubles with mono brown myself. My one-off Goblin Welder is there to ensure that my cards resolve (important against control decks) and postboard Shattering Spree is a beating. Also, Moltensteel Dragon comes down fast and gets to pump himself up like crazy. 9 times out of 10 Moltensteel Dragon represents a 2 turn clock on his own. The fact that you can drop him down with only four mana means Blood Moon's symmetric effect doesn't bother me. Instead, it helps me pump my dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
I fondly remember the game where my opponent played lightning greaves into kuldotha forgemaster into blightsteel colossus and attacked me. I chump blocked so I didn't die to 10 infect. On my turn, I Shattering Spree Lightning Greaves and play Karn to exile Blightsteel Colossus. GG. Goblin Welder is such a beating against Kuldotha Forgemaster too. You can simply weld out the Lightning Greaves to buy yourself an extra turn, and then weld the threat out. Whenever my opponent activates Kuldotha Forgemaster, I feel excited because I either die or win right there. It's pretty much like going all-in with poker.
Also, if you build your red version correctly, you try to keep a lower average CC. This mitigates the issue you described of needing that mana to cast big bombs. Wurmcoil Engine and Steel Hellkite are nice, but Godo + Batterskull + Moltensteel Dragon are cheaper to cast.
I am currently testing out a new colored version and a mono brown version.
One has Plateaus and Arid Mesa to splash Rest in Piece, Wear/Tear in the sideboard, and main deck Stoneforge Mystics.
The other is a 16 post dark depths list. I have no clue where that is going but I still want to test it to see what I can come up with.
I made a stoneforge build with manlands before, ill post the list here later. Interesting options: sigil of destinction (sink mana in it no equip cost) and moonsilverspear. I only had to drop wasteland and port for it to be any good wich i didnt like.(i added 4 mishra and 4 mutavault instead) Also went without metalworker..Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Edit, this my stoneforge build- i didnt like it much:
3#Mox Diamond|28
2#Crucible of Worlds|64
4#Stoneforge Mystic|76
2#Moonsilver Spear|126
2#Sigil of Distinction|69
4#Batterskull|82
1#Sword of Fire and Ice|49
4#Lodestone Golem|76
4#Chalice of the Void|48
3#Wurmcoil Engine|79
3#Spellskite|82
4#Mutavault|66
4#Mishra’s Factory|11
4#Ancient Tomb|29
4#City of Traitors|15
3#Cavern of Souls|126
3#Ancient Den|48
4#Grim Monolith|17
2#Karn Liberated|82
I'm curious how you chump blocked Blightsteel Colossus given that it has trample. Also as I said I don't use Forgemaster. Instead I have Staff of Domination so I can simply win regardless of what Red MUD does. Chalice also shuts off Welder and Shattering Spree unless you have Cavern of Souls for Welder, in which case how are you getting so much red.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
He probably chumped with a creature with toughness 2+ ..
Also Chalice doesn't blank Shattering Spree but just the original spell, all copys will still resolve.
It seems your Mud is just fantastic, that you discovered the card staff of domination is amazing. you have a decklist for us?Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
Hey Alex, you should really try Sword of Vengeance. Back when I tried a bunch of equipment out with bruizar, I was constantly surprised how good it was, and I find myself searching it with Stoneforge/Godo quite a lot over Sword of X and Y. It makes Lodestone Golem a decent threat because the opponent can't chump block it to death. It also has amazing synergy with Wurmcoil Engine due to Deathtouch + Trample and Deathtouch + First Strike mechanics. Vigilance and Haste are nice bonuses.
Now hold on.. did you tried a deck that used both godo AND stoneforge???Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Vigiliance seems very relevant if combined with first strike.. But when would you ever pick a sword over batterskull? I mostly put in 4 batterskulls because hes a 5 drop that never dissapoints and is very hard to remove. If godo can get him for free thats nice but if i have to pay 5 its ok too. MUD doesnt have many 5 drops. And if they do kill the germ i can stick him on a lodestone making a 9/8 vigilance, lifelink. Even on a metalworker hes good. Maybe ill have to try sword of venegance as a one off. Especially the first srike seems ok with wurmcoil, wich i also run as a 4 off.
Well, in all honesty, let us not bicker about the mirror of MUD vs Red MUD. Let us concentrate on problematic matches. Amongst those, RUG Delver for example. How do you plan on getting to 6 (Hellkite/Wurmcoil), 7(Karn/perhaps All is Dust) or 8 (S.Titan) mana when your manabase is under constant pressure? Metalworker doesn't survive all the bolts and counters and wasteland is there to ruin your day (because basic mountains suck in your opinion). A well-placed Spell Pierce on Grim Monolith or Thran Dynamo is all it takes to kill MUD. Metalworker / Staff will not happen against a deck with that much burn spells, so those are dead slots. Tell me, what is your game plan against RUG Delver in the cases when you don't open with the magic Chalice for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by th3 w1z4rd
I'll tell you the red mud plan: Blood Moon and Bonfire of the damned will both likely get countered too, but if you stick one, you either sweep Mongoose and Delver (and hopefully Goyf), or limit the RUG Delver player to casting burn spells, enabling you to resolve your bigger threats. 1 Batterskull is all you need against a burn deck without creatures or counters. I play ATLEAST 8 basic Mountains and usually play 12 (My ideal manabase for redmud is 3 Cavern, 10 Snow-Covered Mountain, 8 sol land, 1 Mouth of Ronom (Slow insurance against hatebears/teeg/attacking jitte), but truth be told, I currently don't have Caverns..)
Post board is hell, because Ancient Grudge comes in. Luckly, we at least access to Blood Moon to protect us from the flashback, and Red Elemental Blast to kill Delver or permission. It still is a punch in the liver though.
No. I tried both Stoneforge MUD and Godo MUD, lol. I usually grab the Sword of Vengeance when I have a Wurmcoil Engine and two other threats on the field, where Batterskull becomes redundant. Basically when I feel I have sufficient board control. Deathtouch + Trample is relevant because you only need to allocate one damage to a creature and the rest to the opponent. So even if your opponent's 10/10 Progenitus blocks your Wurmcoil+SoV, you only need to allocate one damage to Progenitus and the 7 to your opponent. It has been relevant in several occasions.
I disagree on Blood Moon being that good for us against RUG.
We lose to RUG when they drop a quick threat and can constrain our mana development. While shutting them off from blue spells is very powerful, Blood Moon is very unlikely to come down early enough to matter.
Consider if they drop a Delver/Mongoose on T1 then a Tarmogoyf on T2. At best, we're talking about dropping Blood Moon on T2. If they have a Daze, we just gave them an Enchantment in the yard. If Blood Moon resolves, they still have creatures while we're set back to 2 mana now.
Against Burn/RUG decks, don't forget that Sulfuric Vortex is also pretty commonly played against life gain decks, so Batterskull isn't a guarantee either (on top of PoP really pushing our shit in).
I can't remember the last time I lost to RUG, especially post-board. Literally almost everything in my deck kicks their ass. Chalice, Ratchet Bomb, Trinisphere, Batterskull, Steel Hellkite, Wurmcoil Engine, Sundering Titan, All is Dust... Every time they wasteland me, they aren't playing a threat, and I don't run Forgemaster so Stifle is useless. It is impossible to have threats, counters, burn, and mana denial all at once. I basically drop threats until one sticks and then I win. RUG has zero outs to Wurmcoil Engine and Sundering Titan. I also run Cavern of Souls, so nice countermagic. My deck has too many must-counter spells.