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@TB: What do you cut from your list on Pg 44 to add Goyf? It seems like the list is pretty packed, and I could only see dropping some number of Wort, SGC, maybe Tin-Street (though I like him a lot), and maybe Ringleader since his consistency drops with Goyfs inclusion anyway.
What's your complete list?Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrit2000
And TeenieBopper, what's your list?
has anybody ever though about tauren mauler ?
I don't run goyf anymore.
4 Fanatic
4 Lackey
1 Piledriver
1 Tin Street
4 Weirding
1 Sharpshooter
1 Gem Palm
4 Warchief
4 Matron
2 Wort
4 Ringleader
3 Siege Gang
4 Vial
4 Wasteland
4 Mountain
4 Badlands
3 Taiga
4 Mire
2 Foothills
1 Swamp
Yes. I don't think there's room in the main since the 3 drop slot is so packed. You could make a good argument for the sideboard, though, especially against Thresh.Quote:
has anybody ever though about tauren mauler ?
If Weirding is the way to go, do we need Gempalm? I think someone said somewhere that in order for Gempalm to be really good, you need to already have an advantage on the field. It cycles, it is uncounterable, but is Weirding better?Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
A few questions:
Is Mad Auntie any good here? She scales better with Warcheif than King.
How good is Wort?
Why such a big decline in Piledrivers?
It should be included as a 1-2 of because of the reasons you stated. And redundant removal is really good.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin
I like the look of this list a lot. :) My list is -1 Weirding, -1 Sharpshooter(moved to the board), +1 Gempalm, +1 Piledriver. Im glad to see that Port has been cut completely and Piledrivers are being cut. Port is terrible in this version IMO and Piledrivers are dead weight more often then they used to be. Do you feel that Weirding is that much better than Gempalm to do a 4/1 split? I still find the cycling of Gempalm to be useful, especially with Wort as a fixture of the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Isn't 3 SGC too much? I love lackey->Siege Gang, but is a 5cc spell needed as 3x in goblins? I'd say 1-2 is the right number.
Also, against basically any green deck packing mana accelerants, you'll want to knock out their big beaters with Weirdings. You'll need Gempalm, Fanatic and Sharpshooter to clear out the mooks so you can Edict the Goyfs, Terravores, Countryside Crushers et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3 Ghost
GreenOne: I think there're good arguments for playing it as a 3-of. First of all, it makes the Lackey>SGC all the more common an opening, and with 4 Weirdings, it's actually not-that-distant of a possibility. Second, it improves your lategame by giving you more bombs to land, something not to be overlooked in a predominantly lategame deck. Third, it makes it easier to win through combat-stalling cards like Moat or Propaganda.
In order to win thru propaganda, prison, maot and stuff like that you could start discussing to cut 1 mogg fanatic for 1 goblin sledder. They both help lackey connect, they both solve bridge from below. Fanatic shoots stuff like confidant but sledder handels jitte for good. So running 1 sledder instead of a 4th fanatic isnīt probably that much of a deal. On the other side sledder lets many of your critters survive things like pyroclasm etc. and it pumps up a single creature for the win thru tax effects like propaganda and it can enable the last 4-8 dmg with a sharpshooter. So i see him as a situational tool to otherwise dangerous situations. And if you have him in the opening hand instead of a fanatic he is still not terrible (he handles mongoose better then fanatic for example).
Any thoughts???
I am still mind boggled as to why anyone would want to drop Mogg Fantastic for Goblin Sledder. Why do people think this even a remotely decent idea, someone please explain this to me I am at a loss. Mogg Fanatic does everything you listed ChillerKiller better then Goblin Sledder, although it does not help Goblins beat Moat, which I fail to see how either card does. Personally Id take Mogg Fanatic over Goblin Sledder any day. As far as board wiping effects like Pyroclasm, try not over extending yourself vs decks that may be packing said cards.
Edit: I think I say this for the majority people here when I point out that its time people stopped suggesting Goblin Sledder and equally shitastic cards.
I can't truly expand on this question, so I'll just present it: What to you do against Reanimator/ other decks with recursive threats that are too big to deal with? Wierding gave you some new tools to combat them with, but has anyone tried/ be forced to play this MU?
There are a god number of situations in which Sledder is a little better than Fanatic, and in the late game I personally would rather see Sledder 99% of the time.
If you tell me what it is you exactly donīt understand about playing a 3/1 fanatic/sledder split I might be able to help you out.:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
What exactly does Goblin Sledder do better, that 4 Mogg Fanatics and the addition of another Siege Gang Commander possibly up to 3 main deck can't do?
Explain to me why I should run a card that is only decent at best in the "Late Game" when I can run Mogg Fanatic which is excellent in the Early, Middle, and Late Game.
I'm not so sure Fanatic is "Excelent" in the late game. I've seen Goblins players frown a little at a turn 5 Fanatic, where a turn 4-5 Sledder is generally apreciated. It's ability to fuck up combat math is excelent, and pushing through that last bit of damage is more important that I think you give credit to. A singleton Sledder in a Fanatic Slot would possible be a boon for the deck, and at the least it's not going to take anything from the deck.
Its going to take the 4th Fanatic from the deck. Thats taking something.
So once more:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar
there are things that a sledder simply does better than a fanatic.
1. Handels Bridge from Below all day long
2. Handels Jitte all day long
3. Lets a Lackey survive a turn 2 attack against a Mongoose
4. Lets every small goblin that gets blocked dead deal its combat dmg to the player
5. makes a big goblin to fight thru a propaganda or else
6. deals final dmg along with shooter
7. lets your best gobbos survive things like fire/ice, pyroclasm, lightning bolt...
8. ruins your oponents day with math:tongue:
9. enables some nice recursion tricks along with Wort (thinking of matrone for example)
Whereas a fanatic is only a 1 time bridge and jitte solution and only deals 1 dmg to oponent. so his main use is to help connect a lackey (not including mongoose on the play or goyf on the draw) or to get rid of confidants, lackeys, birds and some combo critters like illusionist.
this should at least make you consider sledder as a toolcard.
We are discussing 1 slot not a 4 off!!!!! I am still playing 3 fanatic because they do help connect the lackey which is huge.
@ everyone supporting sledder: You are all my new best friends forever, for serious. Having an open mind is tech. I've been playing gobs for almost three years now, and I take sledder over fanatic in most metas everyday.
@ Everyone nay-saying without playtesting: Remember when everyone though goyf was a terrible bulk rare the first time we opened him in draft... "Oh, a 0/1 turn two... great, I suppose he could be a 2/3 or 3/4 for 1G late-game, but late game, I want something bigger...this card's shit!" More similarly, all the nay-sayers of Wort... now she is almost a staple in goblins, and I see more and more people coming around to Mad Auntie. Give it a try as a one-of. Turn four matron-ing for sledder so that warchief sticks around happens more often than you'd like to think. Need to push through damage, tutor for sledder, need your dudes to be able to fight that Babar (lox hierarch), tutor for sledder. Fanatic is great, don't get me wrong, but so is tinkerer, piledriver, Kiki, ect... there just aren't enough slots to run 4 of every good goblin, and it's time to break you stigma of going down from 4 fanatics and try something new.
@ goblins' evolution: Wierding is the best thing for goblins (along with wort, co-incidentaly) since aether vial, don't get me wrong. However, I've seen many, MANY goblins builds that seem to focus on "ZOMG!!!1! This card will like GUARANTEE that lackey hits turn two, OMFG MB 4 immediatly, fuck it, cheat in a fifth!" Decks with 4x Fanatic, 4x Wierding, and 2+ incinerator are focusing too much on a 1/1 creature that is only a four-of, and only really good the first two-three turns of the game. Fapping over an explosive lackey start only goes so far, however, when you are starring down an unwinnable combo MU game one, or a deck such as 43 Land that just plain doesnt have any guys that die to sorcerry-speed edict. I personally see goblins as an aggro-control deck with a strong mana-denial aspect that can fight through countermagic and disruption with vial, warchief, and oodles of CA and tutor effects. Goblins is not pure aggro, and Im fucking sick and tired of lists that are basicly built to ensure one 1/1 creature in a deck of 60 cards somehow resolves and connects turn two. Such 'balls to the walls, OMG get there little buddy, you're my only hope" AGGRO decks play like bad combo with a goblin backup plan, and are even cutting drivers in favor of more "lackey connects" cards. Fucking vomit.
Mogg Raider asks; "Where's the love?"
*mutters*
"Damn Sledder, always cribbin' my game."
I don't play Goblins as often as I should. I prefer Thresh, but when I decided to update my deck, I went with:
21//Lands
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
7 Mountain
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
4 Wasteland
35//Creatures
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Incinerator
2 Mad Auntie
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Wort, Boggart Auntie
3 Seige Gang Commander
4//Other
4 Aether Vial
Its been working ok. Mad Auntie is nice when people try to Bolt things, but doesn't do much against Pyroclasm. Wort helps when cards get wasted. I need to pick up some Weirdings soon!
Thoughts on Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider - interesting. I'm unsure as to whether it'll make the cut though. It's good with Wort+Matron/Ringleader, but don't we usually WANT to KEEP our goblins? It's nice for damage-on-the-stack stuff, but outside of that and recycling, how good is he?