[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

Well obviously I'm going to argue that it is better in my opinion, simply because so many decks in the format are completely unprepared to deal with an Isochron Scepter on the board, no matter what card you imprint onto it. It is almost never card disadvantage if you play it properly. Game 1, there will be no way to effectively deal with a Scepter with Orim's Chant, or a Scepter with Counterspell on it. Both of these protect themselves from any cards that you may have in the main deck to deal with them. Games 2 and 3 your play obviously has to shift away from just dominating the game with a single Isochron scepter, and move toward controlling the game through straight up cards in your hand via standstill, to combat any scepter hate. If they bring in K grips for your Scepters, which they definitely will if they play green, then side 1-2 out and resolve a Standstill and smack them around with a Mishra's Factory. I think that the ability to shift game plans with this deck gives it a better game against the format than a traditional Landstill build where your only option is to try to slow the game down with annoying enchantments and STP's. It also allows you to make aggressive plays that have benefits in soooo many matchups. Isochron Scepter + Orim's Chant not only SCREWS ANT, Belcher, and combo, but it also serves as a Wrath of God effect in the sense that it completely nullifies all of the creatures on the board. I believe that the versatility, and the fact that a lot of people are completely unaware that this is a deck is a ridiculous advantage against the field, and a reason to play the deck. I do not want you to think that I am totally against traditional landstill decks, because I'm definitely not. I played them before I made the Scepter list, I even played around with them just when I wanted to change things up. But I always came back to the Scepter list because I had more favorable results with it. Also I ran it a few years back when I was a little younger and a little worse at Legacy at GP Columbus and crushed through day 1 with an X-2 record with only one bye. It has soo many good matches against the field, and even against crap rogue strategies. I would be hard pressed to play anything else at GP Chicago.

I have been testing UW Landstill and found that there does not exist that one power card where if it resolves, then I automatically win. It seems that even if I am in control, I can still punt the game away with poor play. Is this a typical Landstill experience or am I not seeing something?

so,
does anyone playing a Isochron/Chant variation of this deck have an updated list? I'd like to see what you're taking out and what you're keeping to fit Scepters, Chants, and any other cards that fit that strategy.

personally, I love Scepter/Chant, but I wasn't thinking about it being viable in Legacy...at least not as much as it was in Extended. as I wrote before, I feel like you have to take too much out in order to fit the necessary Scepters and Chants. please, if someone has a list, post that stuff!

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Originally Posted by HAVE HEART

I have been testing UW Landstill and found that there does not exist that one power card where if it resolves, then I automatically win. It seems that even if I am in control, I can still punt the game away with poor play. Is this a typical Landstill experience or am I not seeing something?

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I think this is not Landstill specific but hold true for any deck you will pick up. Poor play (and a good opponent) will always cause you game losses, no matter what card you resolved before. But cards that generally lead to you winning are obviously in Landstill, too. Like Standstill and Humility.

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Originally Posted by HAVE HEART

I have been testing UW Landstill and found that there does not exist that one power card where if it resolves, then I automatically win. It seems that even if I am in control, I can still punt the game away with poor play. Is this a typical Landstill experience or am I not seeing something?

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Personally I've found it awefully tough to lose games with humility/ and or elspeth on the table.

I'm gonna have to agree that it's pretty easy to punt when playing landstill. I play so much, that I can play at a very fast pace and make all the right decisions, but if you are unfamiliar with your list or make a small mistake, I think landstill is one of the most unforgiving decks in legacy.

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Originally Posted by ChiiMagic

I'm gonna have to agree that it's pretty easy to punt when playing landstill. I play so much, that I can play at a very fast pace and make all the right decisions, but if you are unfamiliar with your list or make a small mistake, I think landstill is one of the most unforgiving decks in legacy.

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Really? I remember back in the old UW Landstill days, people said it was one of the easiest decks to pilot at the time. Many even said it was an auto-pilot deck.

Personally, it doesn't make a difference for me, because I switch back and forth between auto-pilot and actually playing depending on my match-up, the player I'm facing and/or if I'm in the Top 8.

If you play it a lot, it´s easy. But especially the sideboard requires some training to switch the right stuff.

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Originally Posted by Citrus-God

Really? I remember back in the old UW Landstill days, people said it was one of the easiest decks to pilot at the time. Many even said it was an auto-pilot deck.

Personally, it doesn't make a difference for me, because I switch back and forth between auto-pilot and actually playing depending on my match-up, the player I'm facing and/or if I'm in the Top 8.

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My play online tends to be better just because I can see all the math in front of me vs IRL where it takes alot more time to do a simple count of ones deck. Plus theres always some pressure that I put on myself in real life, but thats apart of not being apart of enough tournaments to get used to it.

Chii - You make some good points about the shifting of strategies. The most attractive being that the stick would handle rogue trash. I think one disconnect we are experiencing is that my landstill deck-list is unique. I can't think of another landstill variant posted on this site that I would play over the scepter list. I just like my version better ;)

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Originally Posted by ChiiMagic

I'm gonna have to agree that it's pretty easy to punt when playing landstill. I play so much, that I can play at a very fast pace and make all the right decisions, but if you are unfamiliar with your list or make a small mistake, I think landstill is one of the most unforgiving decks in legacy.

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I agree. I find the trickiest part to be deciding what to FoW. Sometimes I have a foW and they play a threat. A lot of the time it is better to trust my deck will draw an answer than to blow my counter on a simply removed threat. Sometimes it works to hold the Force and draw into wrath/EE. Sometimes it doesn't.

I placed 4th last night because I made the royal mistake of being too greedy. It was vs Fairy stompy. I won first game easily. But second game he cast pithing needle. Instead of FoW pitching brainstorm, I decided to brainstorm to search for a different blue card and dig some more. I didn't hit a blue card so the needle got through, naming EE. I then draw into 2 EEs and he proceeded to kill me with a bunch of things that cost 3. I even had an academy (slaps self).

Back to Back top 8s with UWb landstill. I just feel like I can't lose when I can keep my opening 7 and not mull to 5 with a god awful hand. Report coming tomorrow.

Why waste time playing Isochron Scepter when you can just run Counterbalance?

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Originally Posted by Hanni

Why waste time playing Isochron Scepter when you can just run Counterbalance?

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Because Counterbalance/Top requires a specific set-up and doesn't answer the board. Also, Counterbalance as a card sucks in multiples. Scepter is always good in numbers.

Another Top 8 at the Grid Tournament on the 1/24/09 to compliment my top 8 at Hadley two weeks before.

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [UNH] Plains
2 [UNH] Island
1 [UNH] Swamp
3 [B] Tundra
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
3 [JGC] Mishra's Factory
3 [REW] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Creatures
2 [PR] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
3 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [JGC] Counterspell
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
3 [AP] Vindicate - MVP
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [ALA] Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 [DIS] Spell Snare is better than the format
2 [REW] Wrath of God

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [JGC] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [SHM] Runed Halo - rock solid
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus - amazing in multiples
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane - wins games
SB: 1 [TE] Humility - so worthless in the sb

Round 1: Dan Jordan TES 2-0
Game 1: Turn 1 he burning wishes for Empty the Warrens. I go factory go. Turn 2 drop standstill. I force a chant. He goes ETW for 12 tokens. I have ee in hand.
Board: -4 Swords -1 Standstill -Tundra in +3 Mage +3 Halo
Game 2: He mystical tutors for pyroblast. I mage pyroblast then stop multiple infernal tutors for who knows what and drop another mage for burning wish.

Round 2: Chris Aggro Loam 2-1
Game 1: He does what Aggro Loam does with a really long game of him being over 30 life for most of the game. He draws DD and we go to board.
Board: -2 Decree -1 Standstill -2 Wrath (1 for 1 is awful) +2 Ajani +3 Relic
Game 2: I have turn 1 relic. He plays goyf. I drop standstill and I eventually shrink him to a 0/1. He grips relic through the standstill and I see another relic. I kill a vore and go broken with planeswalkers.
Game 3: I drop Elspeth turn 4 with force back-up and see triple relic. I play relic into a chalice at 1 LOL. End of this game my hands was CS, BS, Force, EE, Vindicate, other random stuff.

Round 3: Steve Survival Elves 2-1 Solid Player
Game 1: I keep the best one lander ever and top a land into standstill. I drew a lot of counters and he has a slow hand. Elspeth wins it.
Board: -2 Wrath (Dumb idea) -1 Standstill -2 Decree +3 Relic +2 Ajani
Game 2: He goes broken off elf ringleader in multiples and I just go must be nice.
Board: -3 Relic +3 Plague (Why are these in the board? oh for tribal match ups gg rock.)
Game 3: I get lucky ee x 2 and plague/vindicate him down to one land while I drop an Ajani. I make a 28/28 token with force back up.

Round 4 and 5 I draw into top 8 finishing 4 on breakers.

I play Goyf Sligh.
Game 1: I see a lot of counters and ee's but he fireblasts me with a fanatic and me being at 5 life. I had force in hand, but just another ee.
Board: -2 Wrath -2 Decree -1 Eternal Dragon +2 Ajani +3 Halo
Game 2: I do the Geoff and vindicate lands and halo a figure. Ajani + Elspeth take it home.
Game 3: He mulls to 6. I see standstill, fof, fof, sea, factory, other stuff that wasn't going to get there, so I ship it and don't see anything. I mull to 5 with a decent hand of counters and academy ruins. I draw double swords off the top with academy ruins in hand. I see a sea and a tundra way too late. I lose to my own deck. Thanks LANDstill you suck.

Changes I should have made:
-1 Sea +1 Tundra I was almost always color screwed drawing sea instead of white.
-1 FOF +1 BS I love FOF, but I need to draw cards early if I am stuck on lands. I'm not sure if I'll end up doing this or not.
SB: Humility? What do I bring that in against? I needs to be something else. The 4th Vindicate would be nice.

Slops:
DJ for working
Scrubbing in the top 8 of back to back tourneys.
Getting lost for half an hour trying to get to a surprise party we were like 2 hours late for.
Pat forgetting Dragon stompy
Louis for getting accused of stealing a dreadnought and later having to play the same kid.
Mana Screw, how do you prepare for that?
Trying to hit on a drunk chick with some tigassbitties

Props:
Karl for another solid legacy tournament and having monthly tournaments.
Two of Team Awesome making top 8.
Ripping like a champ in 99% of my games
Beating 3 match ups I don't like playing.
Vindicating lands all day
Spell Snare being better than the format.
Making my home state proud.
Joe is dreamy and my hero

Congrats to the top 8 and hope to see you at the next tourney.

I notice you pull decrees for Ajani. I haven't played with Ajani yet. What deck types does he come in against. Can you expand a little on his weaknesses as a main deck card and when/why he comes in?

Thanks,
ian

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Originally Posted by Viscosity

I notice you pull decrees for Ajani. I haven't played with Ajani yet. What deck types does he come in against. Can you expand a little on his weaknesses as a main deck card and when/why he comes in?

Thanks,
ian

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Well, Ajani comes in against burn and decks that can deal with decree tokens or decree angels but can't deal with a planeswalker. For instance, survival has no answer to a resolved planeswalker besides pushing through damage, same for aggro loam. It strengthens your match up when they have no answer to your threat. Plus, his ultimate is hilarious.

My triumph with outta date landstill builds continues:

I played in a small, non-sanctioned tournament of 8 people on Sunday...

Here is the list I used:

lands//23
4 tundra
1 scrubland
1 underground sea
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
1 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
3 island
2 plains
1 tolaria west

creatures//1
1 eternal dragon

spells//36
4 brainstorm
4 standstill
2 sensei's divining top
2 cunning wish
1 crucible of worlds

4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
3 engineered explosives
2 humility

4 force of will
3 counterspell
2 spell snare

sideboard//
3 runed halo
3 counterbalance
1 sensei's divining top
1 tormod's crypt
3 extirpate
1 enlightened tutor
1 slaughter pact
1 dismantling blow
1 blue elemental blast


I went undefeated in 3 rounds... playing against Pikula, Zoo, and Finally TES...



Round 1: Bw 'I destroy permanents/discard cards/then bob to keep going'.dec
Game 1:
He plays duress instead of thoughtseize, but whatever...
He gets a great start of turn 1 duress (taking top), turn two sinkhole.

I play a brainstorm, Then get a few lands out so I can Cwish for E.Tutor... Normally, I would have fetched out a humility, but he was keeping me off of white, so I went for crucible... then sweeped with a top-decked wrath, then got control over the long run.

Game 2: I board out 1 humility (he runs only a few creatures), and shave a few numbers to get the CB/top lock for game 2...

I don't see the lock, but I get an early standstill and get enough lands that his LD doesn't matter... my life goes to 15, and then I gain control through my singleton humility (OMG lol), and a well-timed explosives for 2 (hitting a confidant and a shade).

Record 1-0-0


Round 2:

RG Zoo

Game 1: He plays a goyf, burns my dome several times, and I barely stabalize at 8 life (spell snare takes out POP)... I swords two of my factories after I wrath to get rid of his goyf, thius puts me at a safe 15 life...

I eventually stick a dragon and start swinging, he knows he cannot win the race, so he burns the dragon twice... I simply bring it back and it eventuall gives me the W.

Game 2: I take out 1 crucible, 2 humility, and a wrath for 3 counterbalance and 1 top...

I get a relatively early top, and assemble the lock pretty soon, and eventually get in there with 2-3 tokens while he's in the lock.


Record: 2-0-0

Round 3: TES, w/ Confidant's maindecked...

He is on the play and gets a first turn confidant off of a land and a mox.
I brainstorm to find swrods and get rid of him... he casts a chant, and I only have 2 counterspells as protection, but I can only cast one, so I counter the chant, and he passes the turn (apparently, he was bluffing to get a CS outta me), I land a top to find a spell snare... he duresses me to take my CS, then starts to combo, I then draw off of top to snare his tutor, then kill him softly.

Game 2: I board out: -2 humility, -3 wrath of god, -1 decree of justice, 2 cunning wish, 1 crucible of worlds, 1 dragon: board in--
+3 extirpate, +3 counterbalance, +1 sensei's divining top, +3 runed halo


Game 2, I get a monster of an opening hand with runed halo and engineered explosives, along with a Force... I get the halo, then counter a tutor (infernal) so I could extirpate it... he could only go for tokens, but I had the explosives just in case... My mishra's eventually get there.


So I ended up 3-0-0, and 6-0 in games, and got a few packs.


I really like the addition of CB/top in the sideboard for combo/burnesque decks, it really helps.

with E -dragon and factory as your only kills, weren't you bored to tears?

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Originally Posted by Viscosity

with E -dragon and factory as your only kills, weren't you bored to tears?

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I was happy with the win...

Against combo, I like to not lose, winning can come later.

@freakaccident: Why do you only run 1 eternal dragon and a playset of factorys? Do you feel that your ability to race certain decks and put them under pressure when you have the board locked before they can draw into threats or find cards to answer your hate is much slower than at least a list with decree of justice? It definitely seems like it does.