[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by btraut

Nah, I won't drop down to 22 lands. I'm pretty sure 23 is the right number for a deck that wants to Waste and Port as much as this. So another silver bullet needs to take the place of something existing, thus my Sharpshooter demotion.

Just to be clear, I found room for the Sharpshooter in the board by dropping a Thalia. I don't like doing that, but I feel I've already added a ton of slots for Storm and Thalia is the narrowest card left.

Thoughts?

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I don't want to dismiss Grenzo without having played it. And, I do want to play Grenzo. That card looks very fun. But comparing it heads up to Sharpshooter, I think I'm more likely to face decks where I would prefer Sharpshooter.

Sharpshooter: Death and Taxes, Elves, Infect, and TES. Also for anything with Pyromancer, Mentor, or Lingering Souls.

Grenzo: Miracles, Shardless, Burn, RUG, and Merfolk.


Given that, I think I would main Sharpshooter. And then Grenzo doesn't really earn the sideboard slot. Against Shardless, another Krenko is probably better as everyone chimed in (thanks!). Against the other pro-Grenzo matches we're mostly doing OK.

I did a bunch of playtesting against Shardless BUG yesterday. Relic of Progenitus was not a good card, unfortunately. It's obviously good against Goyf but it's mediocre against DRS. I think I need to test with More removal instead.

Also, Shardless has very little counterspells, just 3 or 4 FoW. So don't be afraid to jam the spells against them.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

I did a bunch of playtesting against Shardless BUG yesterday. Relic of Progenitus was not a good card, unfortunately. It's obviously good against Goyf but it's mediocre against DRS. I think I need to test with More removal instead.

Also, Shardless has very little counterspells, just 3 or 4 FoW. So don't be afraid to jam the spells against them.

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I came to the same conclusion recently. My take would be to bring in Perish. It should usually swipe their board empty and - as you said - they are light on counterspells.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

I came to the same conclusion recently. My take would be to bring in Perish. It should usually swipe their board empty and - as you said - they are light on counterspells.

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I kept thinking the same thing, but I really really really don't want to splash these days.... Maybe I should just say Fuck It and bring the black splash back. Running Ancient Tomb and Chrome Mox make Perish a little bit better against Elves anyway...

What other reasons to run Black?

Discard against combo would be great. Wasteland is less and less a problem as time goes by. Stifle is only played in RUG Delver. And we've already established that Black is the easiest splash to run.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

What other reasons to run Black?

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Cabal Therapy

Perish

Thoughtseize

Having the most metal goblins deck around

Hello everyone. I went 1-2-1 last wednesday and wanted to share my results with you.

R1 I lost to Maverick 0-2
R2 I beat Infect 2-1
R3 I lost to R/G Lands 1-2
R4 I drew versus UW Delver/Mentor, would definitely have won if we had had more time.

Thoughts:
I felt as if I simply didn't draw enough gas vs Maverick. It happens. If the problem persists I will look further into it.

Sideboarding vs Infect is difficult. I'm not sure what to take out or how good Duress & Chalice is versus them.

CotV was surprisingly good on the play to stop Mox, especially important now that I'm on Blood Moon. Moon was too slow G3 though, when he had multiple Wastelands. I need to think about a solution to this.

I realized something about Cabal Therapy when playing against UW. On the one hand you want to wait as long as you can to cast it, because every play is a clue as to what is in their hand. On the other, by waiting they will empty their hand naturally and your discard is weakened. This is true in at least some matchups, and also something that's worth thinking about in my opinion.

Also, I played some post board games versus AnT today. Duress was good, as was Blood Moon. I feel that I have enough tools to slow them down after board, but winning the game/locking it up can take too long. Earwig Squad straight up wins the game, and is really very good.

I want to try a some things, only right now they're only vague ideas. I need to think about this, and hopefully I'll figure out what's bugging me.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

I did a bunch of playtesting against Shardless BUG yesterday. Relic of Progenitus was not a good card, unfortunately. It's obviously good against Goyf but it's mediocre against DRS. I think I need to test with More removal instead.

Also, Shardless has very little counterspells, just 3 or 4 FoW. So don't be afraid to jam the spells against them.

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How did you sideboard against Shardless?

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Originally Posted by Sandro95

Sideboarding vs Infect is difficult. I'm not sure what to take out or how good Duress & Chalice is versus them.
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Im boarding out Ringleader against Infect. You really only need to make sure that they cant pump their creatures too much. any clock you build up is basically good enough because they dont really want to block your creature , or Waste their pump spell on combat tricks. In this MU you want to draw your SB crds and Ringleader doesnt help you with rhat. Also, you dont need the extra Gas as card advantage is nor an issue. Also, I bring in Sharpshooter,.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Im boarding out Ringleader against Infect. You really only need to make sure that they cant pump their creatures too much. any clock you build up is basically good enough because they dont really want to block your creature , or Waste their pump spell on combat tricks. In this MU you want to draw your SB crds and Ringleader doesnt help you with rhat. Also, you dont need the extra Gas as card advantage is nor an issue. Also, I bring in Sharpshooter,.

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Ringleader gives you business cards like fire, gempalm, shooter, stingscourger.

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Originally Posted by Stevestamopz

How did you sideboard against Shardless?

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Just brought in some Relics. Took out things like Settler, Piledriver, lackey. We probably just want more removal in this MU.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

Just brought in some Relics. Took out things like Settler, Piledriver, lackey. We probably just want more removal in this MU.

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That sounds good.
I'd probably only bring in a couple of cards as well since you probably want all the goblins here to make ringleaders better. Sometimes is hard to beat shardless ca.

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Im boarding out Ringleader against Infect. You really only need to make sure that they cant pump their creatures too much. any clock you build up is basically good enough because they dont really want to block your creature , or Waste their pump spell on combat tricks. In this MU you want to draw your SB crds and Ringleader doesnt help you with rhat. Also, you dont need the extra Gas as card advantage is nor an issue. Also, I bring in Sharpshooter,.

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Yeah, Sharpshooter is insane against them. Boarding out Ringleaders sounds fair. I'm generally reluctant towards taking all of them out, but I'll give it a try. Thanks!

Are people still trying Subterranean Scout, or did he got the axe? I personally still like the little bugger.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Are people still trying Subterranean Scout, or did he got the axe? I personally still like the little bugger.

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I feel like he's good enough for a flex spot, but there's so many good options that I haven't made room for him

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Are people still trying Subterranean Scout, or did he got the axe? I personally still like the little bugger.

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Scout is cute but removal gives you more tempo and CA.

Yeah, started with four and slowly dropping him from my list. Still, would be nice to keep one or two, but there are so many good Gobbo's to consider. Guess you guys are right.

EDIT: jrw, do you consider running two Skirk Prospector being optimal when running the KJ/ Crafter-combo? Or do you run two SP for other reasons?

I run two for the combo. The combo is too hard to assemble if you only have one Skirk. Matron into Kiki sets up the win next turn when you have a Skirk in play already. Having to matron a second time to grab the Skirk is way too slow.

I'm still trying to figure out this Shardless BUG matchup. Tested Perish tonight and it was underwhelming. The black splash made their wastelands better. Anyone have any insights? I know MWM is pretty damn good against Lilliana AND Goyf. Have folks been having success with it?

0-2 today with the same list I've been running (3 Wastes, 2 Ancient Tomb, 1 Chrome Mox, MonoR, Kiki Combo, 2 Stingscourger). It wasn't that bad though because both matches were 1-2 so I wasn't exactly blown out. R1 I lost to Painter Grindstone. He had a horrible G1 so I had no idea what he was on G2. G2 he assembled the combo late game for the win. G3 he had the combo T2. I had the Pyrokinesis for the Painter but he had the Force. R2 was against Grixis Delver. Krenko won G1. G2 he had a Stifle for my Matron AND my Ringleader which won him the game there. G3 I had to keep a 7 of Vial, Piledriver, Matron, Lands. I played my Vial, he Probed me then CT'd my Driver, then T2 I drew a second Matron. 2 Matrons got CT's away T2, then I drew 6 lands. Oh, he played an E Plague too. Haha. Whoops.

I took out 3 Trinisphere from my sideboard finally today because I haven't seen Omnitell in forever. I put in 2 Pithing Needle and a Mindbreak trap. There was a bunch of Storm in the room and Sneak Attack as well, so I definitely made the right call. It didn't work out for me today, but it WAS the right decision.

4 Chalice
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Blood Moon
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mindbreak Trap

I did find myself pondering about over-sideboarding. I wanted to bring in tons of stuff but didn't want to get too low on the goblins count. Like, against Grixis Pyromancer I had tons of goodies I could bring in (Chalice, Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, etc) but couldn't bring them all in because the match is a grind. I'm thinking another Sharpshooter or two might be a good addition to the SB because they just put the board on lockdown against fair decks. I'm also thinking Relic might have to go. SB seems to be for cards that just win games, and Relic doesn't do that.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Are people still trying Subterranean Scout, or did he got the axe? I personally still like the little bugger.

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I had him in my Classic list as a 2 of over 2 Mogg War Marshal since he was legal until about a month ago. He is nice to have access to to break through board stalls in fair match-ups. He lets you alpha strike from parity. The problem he has is that in these match-up's he does nothing while behind where the Mogg-War Marshal is obviously good at chumping. I eventually determined that he is at his best as a 1 of in the classic shell. His 2 critical turns appeared to be turn two from a turn 1 Lackey, or turn 9 and beyond for a board break. This combined with the fact that he is merely "fine" in the mid turns, he is a win-more.

I would not recommend running more than 1 of him, and I would only run him in a creature heavy, fair meta. Shardless, Esper, etc.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Are people still trying Subterranean Scout, or did he got the axe? I personally still like the little bugger.

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Ive been testing it in my Winstigator list (moving from 1 to 3 copies) and I liked it a lot, but it was the 58th, 59th and 60th best card in the deck in basically any MU. Im always juggling with these slots so I cant say I discarded it entirely. Right now I just feel like im in need of 2-3 Gempalms.