Do you think it'd be better to put another fetch land in and move the mountain to the sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Printable View
Do you think it'd be better to put another fetch land in and move the mountain to the sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I think you shouldn't have the Mountain at all, though this is an issue still in contention amongst Miracles players. My manabase is exactly the same as yours, except that Mountain is a Karakas instead. Your call to play the 2nd Mesa, but I wouldn't have the Mountain anywhere in your 75.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiStoneforge Mystic
I will test Karakas and Mesa over it for a bit.
I'd like some feedback on sideboarding. So far online and in real life I've had a very hard time against burn deck so I've been working on my strategy. I'm including all of my notes here in case I have any faulty logic or anything like that. I have a note about "considerations" for other cards that I've considered for my 75 as well as the decklist evolves.
Sideboarding:
+2 Wear/Tear (Float this and you counter half of their deck - also kills vortex, bridge, pillar, eidolon)
+2 Monastery Mentor
+2 Flusterstorm (Use early)
-1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor (Slightly slow)
-1 Volcanic Island (No red spells, just need the tear part of wear/tear, plays around POP, can skimp on a land)
-4 Terminus (Too slow and too reactive)
Strategy:
Kill their creatures (FOW if necessary)
Fetch basics to play around price of progress (Hold FOW if you can't)
Need to be able to get some pressure going unless you lock them out
○ Entreat for 1-2 angels is a very good play
○ Block their goblin guides w/ snapcaster
Countertop lock is strong
○ Float 1: Bolt, Swiftspear, Goblin Guide, Chain Lightning, Lavamancer, Lava Spike
○ Float 2: Eidolon, Searing Blaze, Price of Progress
○ Float 3: Sulfuric Vortex, Rift Bolt
○ Float 6: Fireblast
FOW targets:
○ FOW a card that will deal more than 3 damage or is very difficult to answer (ex: eidolon, vortex, fireblast, POP if we have more than 1 nonbasic, an early threat)
Considerations
Rest in Peace would shut off Barbarian Ring and Exquisite Firecraft's uncounterability (still a 3 drop though)
Blue Elemental Blast is obviously excellent
What do you guys think?
Such a big fan of Karakas in all builds of Miracles (not just Legends build). It's such a good answer to so many cards in the format. Off the top of my head: S&S (Emrakul & Greislebrand), Reanimator (Grislebrand & Iona), D&T (Thalia), Maverick (Teeg), Lands (Maret Lage), Miracles (Clique).Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
I like keeping at least 1 Terminus so I have a 6 to reveal to Fireblast. I usually can't find another card I'd want to bring in instead, anyway. Just be careful when you bring in Mentor not cast him into an Eidolon. TBH, I'd rather not have him since he won't close out the game fast enough so they'll still be aiming the burn at our face rather than him. I like bringing in Cliques to force our opponent to fire off burn spells at inopportune times (i.e. they won't be able to chain many together, which is how they winby overloading CounterTop with many different CMCs) and to strip them of any tech cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiStoneforge Mystic
You should always be fetching basics against any deck, not just burn. The mana in our deck is pretty damn good, even considering we have many WW(W) and UU spells. Only fetch/play Volc if you 1) need that red mana or 2) it's early game and you need to make your land drops (obviously this refers to playing it from your hand). Against Burn specifically, this makes PoP a non-factor meaning you can save your FoWs for that Fireblast.
Well, the basic design is from AnziD, so the main credit goes to him, I just tweaked it a bit. Be warned, with this list I have very little experience vs Eldrazi, it might be very soft to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
VS Burn, I usually don't side out all Termini, especially on the draw, since having to one for one a larger board after an Eidolon resolves is painful. Also, I'd rather have the 2 Cliques than the 2 remaining Jaces honestly. Having more mana efficiency and flexibility to spin Top under the CB lock is key from my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiStoneforge Mystic
I disagree with mountain not being good - I'd want at least 1 in my 75 these days; It makes it possible to actually play REB in the delver matches, which is hugely beneficial.
That's just flat out wrong. As matter of fact, you want to actively setup the floating of 6. Fireblast is their finisher, or only hope once CB-T is assembled. As long as you have multiple SDT in play, 1 CMC is highly discouraged from casting. So I would just float 2 and 6, even better if you can float wear//tear and terminus. Then you only need to cantrip into hard counter for cmc 3. With that said, the only exception is Firecraft, which is 3~4 from SB. Therefore you do need to either sustain a high life total, or find RiP in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiStoneforge Mystic
There will be occasion in which you could not stop a Vortex from resolving. In that board state, you need to either damage race via Entreat, or find a CJ or EE asap.
Regarding Miracles vs RUG Delver MU, I'll just make that claim: play around Daze can be over-rated. RUG Delver is faster than Miracles, period. If you always try to play around Daze, you'll just die to something else. Now, do I have any evidence to support that claim? No, only from experience. Does this mean you should Entreat for full amount into daze? Of course not, as matter of fact, try to play around Pierce and/or Daze if we're referring to Terminus/Entreat. If I were on the play and I have the chance to resolve a turn 2 CB, or potentially run into Daze, I would definitely go for it in this MU. Saying being blue as a burden is an invalid point. Staticaster is also being blue, has that stop people from running it in the SB?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnziD
Clique is not meant to answer YP directly. It's there to either draw you a card (i.e. Terminus/Brainstorm/Staticaster) to see if you can get back to parity, or to clear the YP player's counter so you can push through the next spell.
Terminus is still stellar and core card here.
I think 4/1 4/2 3/2 with the new beast can be to test.
Exactly when I thought to add Supreme Verdict MD, they give us this.
Thanks wotc!
Agreed completely. I'm currently on 1 Mountain, 4 Island, 2 Plains in my entreat build. There are no main deck red spells but I want non-waste-able red mana since Wastelands are at an all time high now. It might be greedy as hell to do so, but I haven't been punished yet *shrugs*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
I haven't posted a list on here in a while but I've decided to move away from Blood Moon and rely on Entreat only as a Win Condition vs. BGx and Eldrazi, etc. I've been playing Blood Moon for so long that almost everyone now plays around it anyway and begin to overload on enchantment hate. Krosan Grips, Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm, Maelstrom Pulse, fetching basics, etc. It's only the stone cold nutter butters against eldrazi, and lands to some certain extent and I don't want to just play into that game plan anymore. I'm going to likely rely on the threat of landing a blood moon being far more important than actually playing one, and thus freeing up slots for matchups where appropriate. As one of the original innovators of Predictable, this is the direction I'm taking the deck, feel free to criticize and ask questions!
Without further ado:
3 CREATURES:
3 Snapcaster Mage
21 LANDS:
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Mountain
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
36 OTHER SPELLS:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Predict
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Terminus
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
1 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell (still deciding which is better)
2 Entreat the Angels
SB: 1 Snapcaster Mage
SB: 1 Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
Barring anything crazy, I'll likely be playing this at a GPT at the end of the month along with any other major events.
Nice list. What is your SB plan VS Edlrazi without blood moons? I only ask because I've been having trouble defeating them in my last few tournaments. I've been running 2 Moon and they still don't seem to help. :frown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
Vs Eldrazi, I have a tendency to formulate my game plan around not dying =P. Blood moon is a great way to hose them, but often it's not enough, you need blood moon followed by x. X being entreat, mentor, stoneforge mystic, etc. When I played regular predictable, turn 2 stoneforge plus blood moon was usually good enough but now eldrazi is also able to beat blood moon via ratchet bomb, endbringer, or worldbreaker, etc, and blood moon just hasn't been cutting it. If they don't have chalice for 1, the matchup is actually comically easy, but if they do, you have to remove it ASAP. You can beat other taxing effects, like trinisphere, thorns, if you cantrip heavily for lands. But, in general, the gameplan is simply to revolve around terminus --> entreat and you can do it aggressively vs. them. Just try your best to play around warping wail when it comes down to it. If they don't have chalice, you can hang toe to toe with them =P. It's still a rough matchup, and I used to have a Moat in my sideboard for this reason, but like, it was so narrow, as is blood moon now, that I don't feel comfortable enough to dedicate a slot to that matchup specifically, without weakening too much in other regards. I rely on my skill as a player, and ability to map out games many turns in advance in order to carry me in that matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
P.S. Clique is really strong against their ancient tomb draws, as well as being great vs Eye of Ugin activations and eating up Warping Wails
Yeah, I haven't played in enough tournaments to learn how to play against Eldrazi. In the few games I have played, Blood Moon seemed to be more of a burden for me because I couldn't fetch. I was trying to meta for the deck and had 3 MB Mentors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
My experience may be skewed tho since I played mainly against a guy who had a mishmash of 12 post and Eldrazi. It didn't seem to matter what I did since he would spend his first few turns ramping with artifacts (Thran Dynamo) and using artifacts that turned my deck off (Omen Machine). He'd cast an Ulamog or Kozilek and I'd either have the force and he'd reload or I'd die.
The other 'normal' Eldrazi deck I played against beat me handely too but it was at least a closer game. Every terminus I played was met by a warping wail and I was dead much faster than I expected.
What do we think about using something like Peacekeeper or Humility to slow them down long enough for us to turn the game around?
Then all we need to do is protect the peacekeeper against the Warping Wails.
Never. If you want to go that far, you play a Moat since it's just better in every situation you'd want a Peacekeeper or Humility in.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiStoneforge Mystic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
Blood Moon on T3 followed up by a Jace or even ETA for 2 on turn 4 is lights out. Though, a Blood Moon on an empty (or 1-creature) board + a removal spell or counterspell (since now they can't use Cavern) will suffice as well. Should give you enough time to dig for your win con.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misersoneof
I will maintain that Blood Moon is great against BUG decks, even if they have 1 or 2 basics. It slows them down enough for us to catch up, and makes casting the spells that really matter against us more difficult.
I have the same experience as Minnie; I don't think Blood Moon is particular well positioned now a days, as everyone expects at least one from the miracles player, something they can expect to face at least once. This, coupled with Abrupt Decay performing better (as well as a ton of other enchantment hate overall), Blood Moon doesn't seem super strong. This doesn't mean, that Blood Moon just shits on certain decks, which is worth considering.
I think Blood Moon is vastly outperformed by Rest in Pieces.
I went 6-0 at my LGS today, playing this list:
4,4,2x: Strand, Tarn, Mesa
3x Tundra
2x Volcanic
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
3x Ponder
2x Predict
4x Counterbalance
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Snare
1x Counterspell
4x Terminus
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Monastery Mentor
1x Vendilion Clique
SB:
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Flusterstorm
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Wear//Tear
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
2x Containment Priest
1x Blue Elemental Blast
I beat:
B/G Budget Infect 2-0
Chaos Elves (No NO-Elves) 2-1
UG Infect 2-0
BUG Delver 2-0, with Bobs, Lilianas, Hymns. No tombstalkers.
Ubg Omnitell 2-0
Maindeck Blood Moon Miracles 2-0.
Any tips for the Infect MU?
Don't try to dodge one poison by swording before damage. Remove the creature at their EoT. They always have a ton of condoms, which they would love to use.
Terminus is better than Swords, as it dodges Vines.
There's no fault in swording an Elf or Agent on your own turn, as you avoid blowout then.
Jace, Entreat and Mentor are all very weak in the matchup. Snapcaster as well as Clique excel here.
Their cards, in terms of value, goes like this: Inkmoth, Noble, Vines. These three are their most important cards; Noble is really undervalued, due to their Exalted.
I boarded like this:
-2 Jace, -2 Mentor, -1 Counterspell, -1 Ponder, -1 Plains
+2 Wear/Tear, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +2 Vendlion Clique
If it was possible, I wouldn't mind a copy of flusterstorm, but clique is just really, really good. The ability to call no blocks, and protect your removal spell against their x is really, really good.
You don't need to "win" against them, just survive and stabilise. That's enough.
The matchup is very close to being even, perhaps a tiny, tiny bit favored for Infect (52-48 kind, not more). Infect just has a super high ceiling, which means you can play against people who are much better at magic than you (Think Tom Ross), and thus have a huge edge against you.
Inkmoth is the real deal.
For Glistener we block with everything for Agent we Pyroblast and Sword it.
The real deal is to respond to the land. It gets Exalted, Pendelhaven, it's impossible to responded..
Izzet Staticaster also doesn't really help because they just hold untapped Pendelhaven and it's done.