Gatecrash Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Barook

:eyebrow:

The Life combo was based on the :0: target triggers, not damage.

Let's say Nomads get targeted by a Shock. I activate it 2x before it resolves, but wouldn't all the damage be redirected at once?

It's kinda important since I want to figure out how useful Basilisk Collar would be on it since it makes a difference between one and two destroyed creatures.

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I'm not certain I fully understand what I'm reading, and I'm kind of out-the-door right now, but it looks as though the damage is actually only dealt the one time regarding Nomads en-Kor; it just happens to get redirected. So something like the aforementioned Furnace of Rath, which has a replacement effect (whenever something deals damage, double it) would only actually be applied once for the total damage dealt, even if it is being redirected. So yes, the damage is going to be dealt "at the same time, all at once" for the purposes of Nomads + Reckoner.

Since Reckoner can re-up the damage though, by becoming indestructible and then dealing the damage over again, you would treat each instance of Reckoner's damage separately, because it's a new triggered ability. So like, in magical Voltron land, if you DO control Nomads, Reckoner, and Furnace of Rath, the damage would double each time Reckoner triggers again if it targets Nomad en-Kor. So forget the infinite life combo; just get the damage >= target opponent's life total and kill target opponent.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

So like, in magical Voltron land, if you DO control Nomads, Reckoner, and Furnace of Rath, the damage would double each time Reckoner triggers again if it targets Nomad en-Kor. So forget the infinite life combo; just get the damage >= target opponent's life total and kill target opponent.

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I think at the cost of 4 mana, the compact combo with Volcano Hellion posted in the other thread seems better since you can go Channel/Fireball on their ass.

Reckoner in general seems to be a great equipment carrier. Probably not good enough for Legacy, but still intriguing.

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Originally Posted by Barook

I think at the cost of 4 mana, the compact combo with Volcano Hellion posted in the other thread seems better since you can go Channel/Fireball on their ass.

Reckoner in general seems to be a great equipment carrier. Probably not good enough for Legacy, but still intriguing.

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Is there another part of the combo, or do you just plan on being ahead on life when you play the Hellion?

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

Is there another part of the combo, or do you just plan on being ahead on life when you play the Hellion?

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Channel/Fireball is being ahead in life. Wouldn't be that hard to accomplish with burn around.

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Originally Posted by Rizso

Thought Furnace of rath is a replacement effect not a trigger so it will still just be one source.

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Someone might have answered this already, but I might as well explain it quickly. We start with a furnace and an indestructible reckoner on the battlefield. Suppose reckoner takes 1 damage. Furnace will double it to 2, then reckoner's ability triggers and you have it deal 2 to itself. Since this trigger is a new source, furnace doubles it to 4. This makes another trigger, which will also be doubled by furnace, etc. Once the damage amount is enough to kill the opponent, you just have the next trigger target them instead of the reckoner.

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Originally Posted by Malchar

Someone might have answered this already, but I might as well explain it quickly. We start with a furnace and an indestructible reckoner on the battlefield. Suppose reckoner takes 1 damage. Furnace will double it to 2, then reckoner's ability triggers and you have it deal 2 to itself. Since this trigger is a new source, furnace doubles it to 4. This makes another trigger, which will also be doubled by furnace, etc. Once the damage amount is enough to kill the opponent, you just have the next trigger target them instead of the reckoner.

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I believe the question was originally worded to include Nomad en-Kor in the equation, though. The OP wanted to know if, say, Nomad was targeted by a Shock; if the replacement effect were used @ Boros Reckoner two times to redirect all of the damage, would it be two separate instances of damage or just one for the purpose of the Reckoner's trigger? It matters because if it's two separate instances of damage, Reckoner can deal 1 damage to one target and 1 damage to another. However, since the damage is actually dealt all at once, no matter how many replacement effects Nomad en-Kor establishes, the end result is a single triggered ability from Boros Reckoner.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

I believe the question was originally worded to include Nomad en-Kor in the equation, though. The OP wanted to know if, say, Nomad was targeted by a Shock; if the replacement effect were used @ Boros Reckoner two times to redirect all of the damage, would it be two separate instances of damage or just one for the purpose of the Reckoner's trigger? It matters because if it's two separate instances of damage, Reckoner can deal 1 damage to one target and 1 damage to another. However, since the damage is actually dealt all at once, no matter how many replacement effects Nomad en-Kor establishes, the end result is a single triggered ability from Boros Reckoner.

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Are we still assuming that we have a furnace of rath? Also, I'm not sure what the Nomad is contributing to the combo here. Furnace and Nomad are both replacement effects, and the controller of the object receiving the damage gets to choose the order in which the replacement effects are applied. However, each replacement effect can only be applied to a single damage event once. Redirecting damage with the Nomad does not make it a new damage event.

To answer your question, suppose we have Nomad and Reckoner on the battlefield, and someone shocks the Nomad. We activate the Nomad ability twice in response to shock, and we target Reckoner with it. Now, when shock resolves, it will deal 2 damage to reckoner instead of to Nomad. It still counts as a single event since the shock is still the source dealing the damage when it resolves.

Now, if we add furnace of rath, we can do some interesting things. If someone shocks Nomads and we redirect the next 1 damage to Reckoner, then we apply furnace after that redirection, Nomads takes 2 (after doubling) and Reckoner takes 2 (after doubling). Now we can have Reckoner shoot Nomad, and redirect one of that back to the Reckoner, then we can apply furnace after the redirection again, so both Nomad and Reckoner take 2. This can keep going, but I don't think it's very useful except to illustrate how the mechanics work.

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Originally Posted by Malchar

Are we still assuming that we have a furnace of rath? Also, I'm not sure what the Nomad is contributing to the combo here. Furnace and Nomad are both replacement effects, and the controller of the object receiving the damage gets to choose the order in which the replacement effects are applied. However, each replacement effect can only be applied to a single damage event once. Redirecting damage with the Nomad does not make it a new damage event.

To answer your question, suppose we have Nomad and Reckoner on the battlefield, and someone shocks the Nomad. We activate the Nomad ability twice in response to shock, and we target Reckoner with it. Now, when shock resolves, it will deal 2 damage to reckoner instead of to Nomad. It still counts as a single event since the shock is still the source dealing the damage when it resolves.

Now, if we add furnace of rath, we can do some interesting things. If someone shocks Nomads and we redirect the next 1 damage to Reckoner, then we apply furnace after that redirection, Nomads takes 2 (after doubling) and Reckoner takes 2 (after doubling). Now we can have Reckoner shoot Nomad, and redirect one of that back to the Reckoner, then we can apply furnace after the redirection again, so both Nomad and Reckoner take 2. This can keep going, but I don't think it's very useful except to illustrate how the mechanics work.

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Furnace had nothing to do with the initial question.

Of course Reckoner can loop with Furnace to infinite damage the same way it does with lifelink.