[Primer/Deck] Burn

Played in the local tonight and went 2-2. I played

9 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Barbarian Ring

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Goblin Guide
2 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Abbot of Keral Keep

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
2 Sulfuric Vortex

Sideboard:

4 Pyroblast
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sulfur Elemental

14 people showed up, the meta was

Burn (R/g splash)
Merfolk
Elves
Grixis 8-Surgical Homebrew
Mentor Miracles
Goblins (maybe?)
ANT
Death & Taxes
Death & Taxes (W/r splash)
Shardless BUG
Enchantress
Bant Reliquary?
2 others I'm not sure of

I expected some Reanimator but didn't see any fatties at any tables all day.

Round 1 - Merfolk

I kept 1-landers both games, but unfortunately it took me until turn 4 or 5 to get another land either game. My first round of Burn in a tournament was not very satisfying.

0-2 (0-1)

Round 2 - Enchantress (G/W)

Game 1 - I don't know what he's on, but he drops a Leyline of Sanctity after drawing his hand. I'm not happy. lol. I do get some dudes down and drop an Eidolon, while laughing about the fact that he runs a single Leyline in his main and he happened to draw it. He's able to drop a Solitary around 10 life and stabilize.

SB - -4 Spike, -3 POP; +2 Cage, +2 Pillar, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - No Leyline! I drop a Swiftspear and a Cage turn 2, with Pillar turn 3. He untaps, gets himself down to 4 life before casting Solitary, with the cast trigger putting him at 2. I'm unable to punch through it and end up losing to Emrakul before I could find a Bridge.

0-2 (0-2)

Round 3 - Death and Taxes (mono-W)

Game 1 - He plays a Thalia and tries to Port-lock me after casting Mom. I have a couple extra lands in my hand, and Mom is still sick, so I respond by Fireblasting Thalia during my upkeep. He ends up having Mom, Revoker, and Flickerwisp on board against my Swiftspear. We're trading damage a bit, but a Barbarian Ring comes through to kill the Mom so I can handle his board. He has too many land and 2 Ports aren't enough to keep me down.

SB - -4 Spike; +1 Sulfur, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - I keep a one-lander with my single Sulfur Elemental in hand. He leads with Vial, then a Mom and Thalia. I manage to draw lands and get the Elemental down turn 3. I end the game soon after with Chain, Bolt, Blast.

2-0 (1-2)

Round 4 - Elves

Game 1 - I pressure him early with Guide and Swiftspear, using my Burn to clear away annoying things like DRS, Ranger, and that stupid Insect. He has to chump with other guys and eventually I overpower him.

SB - -3 POP, -4 Spike; +2 Pillar, +2 Cage, +3 Bridge

Game 2 - Turn 3 Hoof stomped me. Whatevs.

Game 3 - He mulls to 5, so I end up playing a more tempo role and using my Burn to keep him off mana. Eidolon comes down early, does some work, and a second one follows suit. He had a Cradle so I had to kill every dude and just win through combat and triggers.

2-1 (2-2)

I won a pack, took a Khans pack to try cracking a fetch, and ended up with a Trap Essence. But it was fun!

I've been doing quite well recently with Burn. Went 4-2 in the paper Legacy league I'm in (losing in the semi-final to Dredge (who won the league)), and went 5-0 in the Swiss portion of Jelly Jam. Bigwerdz went 3-2, to also make top-8 on Burn.

Burn Core
9 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Fireblast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 3 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 2 Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Exquisite Firecraft
SB: 2 Vexing Shusher

Sideboard (paper): +1 Barbarian Ring, +1 Searing Blood
Sideboard (Jelly Jam): +1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Pyrostatic Pillar

Legacy league match details aren't relevant, because the league started with Dig Through Time still legal (two games per fortnight). So, for the first 6 rounds, most decks were giving it the final hurrah. From memory, I think I went 1-1 against BURG Delver, won against MUD and Miracles (and got a concession), and lost to BUG Delver. Won against Infect in the QF, lost to Dredge in the SF. (Iona on turn 2 and 1 for games 2 and 3)

Jelly Jam match-ups as follows (will confirm R3/R4 match-up once decklists are announced):
R1 vs blubberpompnao (Lands) 2-1
R2 vs Bosque (Wr Death and Taxes) 2-1
R3 vs TheArchitect (Miracles) 2-0
R4 vs jrsthethird (GBW Deadguy) 2-0
R5 vs Dragonslayer90 (Miracles) 2-1

Lucksacked most of my way through this tournament, although I have been playing exceptionally well against Miracles over the last month or so, which has helped.

Hello,
I am slowly getting into legacy and I mostly have staples for UW/UWR/RUG/BUG but can't play those colors because i have no duals* and no wastelands. So I tried playing a MonoU delver, but it just tries too much.

Then it hit me, I have a burn red in modern, and like 75%** of the deck is the same, so I figured this deck should be my first take on the format, while I slowly build into the other decks that I love: TES, Thopters, Jeskai Twin.
It also hit me that a friend used to lend me a MONORAIL (that's how we call mono red) deck to play legacy, and I remembered enjoying it a lot. It was during the dark days of TC/DTT, and this deck still felt awesome and got me many 3-1s and 4-0s through my Miracles, Landstill, UR/Jeskai/BUG/RUG Delvers, Shardless BUG and Jeskai/UR/RUG Stoneblade decks. I remember how I loved the look on the faces of opponents who salted all over the place after losing a game with their sophisticated and 'real' decks. I've been reading the last few days and apparently burn is real, very real nowadays.

Disclaimer:
*I actually have 1 Tundra.
** I didn't really do a statistic.

This is what I brewed from my memories of the deck, and the metagame shifts at my area:

CMC1: 18
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Grim Lavamancer

CMC2: 16
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Searing Blaze
4x Pyrostatic Pillar
4x Price of Progress

CMC3: 3
3x Sulfuric Vortex

CMC6/Free: 4
4x Fireblast

Lands: 19
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Arid Mesa
8x Mountain
1x Barbarian Ring

Sideboard: 15
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Smash to Smithereens
2x Searing Blood
3x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Volcanic Fallout
1x Sulfuric Vortex

I truly believe that with the printing of Exquisite Firecraft the MU against blue decks became slightly favored to burn, as with the combination of any resolved creature and firecraft/fireblast will seal the deal. Especially against delver variants, where pillar and eidolon go a really long way. Now, ticking up the blue matchups in legacy is huge, so my reasoning is that Volcanic Fallout will be a great addition to beat Delvers/D&Ts/Elves in a pseudo control early game, and midgame just steal the victory and run away. It can even be a blast against Monastery Miracles that are more popular every time I check. But especially against delvers. Especially against the new popular 4CDelvers. Let them pitch their cards to FOWs and bounce their lands to Dazes, for they will slow their board development, while we gain time to get to the uncounterable wipes and bombs.

I am really enthusiastic about playing burn again, as I really want to play legacy again and a lot.

I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

This is what I am looking at right now. I have 4 Pillars, a third Lavamancer, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 4 REBs that I could put in.

Lands 20
12 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

CMC1 26
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

CMC2 8
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress

CMC Other 6
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic Fallout

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Speedbump

R4 vs jrsthethird (GBW Deadguy) 2-0

---

That was me. #shouldveplayedburn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elconquistador1985

I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

---

Flame Rift was always a bad card, but when Burn was a very linear 20-0 deck, getting a guaranteed 4 damage out of one card was decent. Now that Burn has taken a more adaptive strategy, and Lava Spike is being reconsidered, Flame Rift is out of the question anymore.

I only started playing again the past few months, but it seems that Eidolon is really the backbone of the new shift in Burn strategy. With the format being decided mostly by CMC 3 or less spells Pillars function as Eidolons 5-x. Pyroblasts let us be more proactive, which is usually the way to go. The only time I think Shusher may be better than Blasts is against Counterbalance, but Blasts are still really good there. It's probably better to delay the lock and apply pressure than to rely on protecting a Shusher to get through the lock.

I just picked up the deck but it feels very natural to me. I'm a huge fan of tempo strategies and there is definitely space for burn to play a tempo role in some matchups, which I find intriguing.

I don't understand why burn plays some of the subpar burn spells it plays when it could easily splash black for...

4 Bump in the Night
4 Tyrant's Choice

both of which are about as efficient (in terms of damage for mana) as anything burn plays.

By splashing black, burn could either drop some of the less efficient burn spells it plays to make room for Confidants as well, or it could forego playing creatures altogether thereby blanking opponent's removal and potential blockers.


Given that, I find it strange that hardly any burn decks splash black. Could someone please explain to me why not?

Burn players are shaving Lava Spikes. Why go into Black for bump? The ability to avoid wasteland and maximize the efficiency of PoP by playing only mountains is one of the great things about burn.

Because I'm mostly trying to make the pro tour, I don't get to play much Legacy. But I'm in PDX and GP SeaTac is coming up, so I got together 4-color Delver (only had to borrow the Underground Seas). But then DTT was banned, so I moved over to UR Delver. However, Delver is struggling against shardless and Jund (Lilliana decks in general) and isn't amazing against combo, so I decided to return to my old faithful burn. I really like what Exquisite Firecraft does for the miracles matchup.

After a lot of research I'm planning to play basically this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/336642#online

The only changes I'm considering are 2 Grafdiggers in the board (shave some Pyrostatic Pillars) and maybe swap some Vortex into the main for some PoP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Realize

Burn players are shaving Lava Spikes. Why go into Black for bump? The ability to avoid wasteland and maximize the efficiency of PoP by playing only mountains is one of the great things about burn.

---

Honestly I think the best thing we can do with a black splash is probably either Blightning or Kolaghan's Command, and both are too slow at 3 mana.

When thinking of splashes, we need to consider things that red can't do, not just thinking of cards that do things marginally better than what red does already. That's what makes a green splash for Destructive Revelry attractive; namely dealing with enchantments. This doesn't even seem like a popular choice right now either, due to the lack of prevalence of impactful enchantments. Simplifying the mana base and focusing on a streamlined strategy is going to give us an ultimately faster clock in the long run than any edge we get from an extra damage, conditional Edict, or a ridiculous 6-mana flashback.

Quote:

---

After a lot of research I'm planning to play basically this list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/336642#online

The only changes I'm considering are 2 Grafdiggers in the board (shave some Pyrostatic Pillars) and maybe swap some Vortex into the main for some PoP.

---

I really like the Pillar; have you considered cutting 1 Smash and 1 Pillar instead?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrsthethird

That was me. #shouldveplayedburn

---

Haha, that probably would have worked well for you, as I haven't played a Burn mirror in about a year or so. (It's something I need to practise a fair amount though, because it's increasing in meta percentage.) I think I would probably be slightly favoured if we were using the decklists posted, because I can lean on the late-game slightly better than you can. I'd still find a way to punt the game though. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elconquistador1985

I'm getting in to Legacy after playing Modern Burn for a while. I'm planning on going to a local SCG Game Night in Legacy later this month for my first Legacy tournament. It seems like I see more lists running Pyroblast/REB instead of Vexing Shusher, are they preferred over the Shusher? Would I be better off running Pyrostatic Pillars over something else in either the side or main? Has Flame Rift entirely disappeared these days? Thanks in advance for your advice.

This is what I am looking at right now. I have 4 Pillars, a third Lavamancer, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 4 REBs that I could put in.

Lands 20
12 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills

CMC1 26
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer

CMC2 8
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress

CMC Other 6
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Searing Blaze
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Volcanic Fallout

---

I think the first thing you should do is replace the Lava Spike with Searing Blaze, as you need to have enough removal to allow your creatures to punch through. This is slightly more important for Swiftspear builds than non-Swiftspear builds, as the Aggro plan has more emphasis.

With that change, you now have 4 free slots in the sideboard. I would put 2 Pyrostatic Pillar as a catch-all against Storm decks and Elves decks, and at least 2 Exquisite Firecraft against fair Blue decks. I personally like 3 Exquisite Firecraft, though that depends on the Miracles concentration in the meta.

Hi all. Been out of the game for a few years, but I've been persuaded to attend Seattle this weekend. Since I don't have much to work with in terms of cards, I'm going to take Fetchless Burn. Seems to me the main (only?) reasons to run fetches are: 1) Grim Lavamancer, 2) Searing Blaze, and 3) Sensei's Divining Top. I don't accept "deck thinning" as an answer. Lavamancer seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat, with plenty of T8 Burn builds not running them at all, even with fetchlands. Top is really interesting, and it obviously gives you a bit more staying power for games that go long. Seems like Searing Blood quite ably replaces Searing Blaze.

Here's the list I'm currently thinking of running. I'd love any comments/suggestions/observations about the list or the comments and assumptions I made above. I do actually have 4 Wooded Foothill, 4 Bloodstained Mire, and a Top. No Lavamancers at the moment, but I'm sure I could buy or borrow a couple if someone talks me into running them.

20 mountain

4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
2 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear

4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blood

2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Lava Spike
3 Pyroblast
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Volcanic Fallout

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.

---

I don't think that swiftspear is terrible - if you cast a single spell on a turn, she's much better than goblin guide (+1 toughness, no land giving) and goblin guide is a machine. Mountain, guide, go, is my favourite start with burn, and often gets 6-8 damage himself before getting killed. I don't know if going all the way up to 4 swifty's is correct, but for the nay-sayer's if you haven't tried her, definitely give her a couple of slots.

Treat yourself, to a little spear-love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.

---

I don't think that Monastery Swiftspear is terrible at all. I just find that my play style with Burn suits a more controlling decklist, which is rewarded by my meta being fair blue decks and fair creature-based decks. I'd never leave home without 3 Grim Lavamancers in my 75, however.

At some point, I'll start testing Monastery Swiftspear over Lava Spike, as I'm finding the latter less exciting the longer I play this deck

guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kuroko16

guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?

---

Mainly Sneak and Show, and definitely not Delver.

Elves is a coin-flip on that call, although I prefer more removal than something that loses to Reclamation Sage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon

I'm so confused why you all are set on Swiftspear, the card is terrible. I still think my list from my Top 16 PIQ in Atlanta is correct. Looks like Speedbump is on the same page.

---

I was with you until I played a 2/2 split with Guide due to availability. While cutting Guides for Spears is not correct by any means, Swiftspear does have merit. I saw her more than I saw Guide during my local, and she did some work. I think she might be better than Lava Spike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volt

Hi all. Been out of the game for a few years, but I've been persuaded to attend Seattle this weekend. Since I don't have much to work with in terms of cards, I'm going to take Fetchless Burn. Seems to me the main (only?) reasons to run fetches are: 1) Grim Lavamancer, 2) Searing Blaze, and 3) Sensei's Divining Top. I don't accept "deck thinning" as an answer. Lavamancer seems to have fallen out of favor somewhat, with plenty of T8 Burn builds not running them at all, even with fetchlands. Top is really interesting, and it obviously gives you a bit more staying power for games that go long. Seems like Searing Blood quite ably replaces Searing Blaze.

---

4) Barbarian Ring

Although not running fetches definitely makes enemy DRS's worse (even though they're still stupid against us with the :g: activation).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kuroko16

guys in wich matchup you side in ensnaring bridge? Sneak and Show? elves? delver decks?

---

Any combo decks with the potential to shit out big dumb guys. Show and Tell, Natural Order, Reliquary decks, Elves, Enchantress, Reanimator. Definitely not Delver; we want something like Pillar or Lavamancer against them.

Even if they can tutor up a Reclamation Sage to blow up our Bridge, that's a tutor they could have spent on a Hoof or combo piece. If Elves hasn't killed us by the time we drop a turn 3 or 4 Bridge, it buys enough time for us to either disrupt their plan or win. Not to mention Cage shuts off GSZ so if we have that they have to draw it the hard way.

My sideboard against Elves was -4 Spike, -3 POP; +3 Bridge, +2 Cage, +2 Pillar. Probably should have been -3 Spike, -4 POP, since Elves only runs Cradle and Dryad Arbor, maybe Pendelhaven or a splash dual. They will avoid any of them against us except for Cradle, so we're looking at 2, maybe 4 to the dome, max. OTOH, we have 5 cards in the sideboard that severely disrupt their plan and two more that turn their plan into a reverse clock. Interacting with their deck is so much better than just going to the face.

Elves can untap at 3 life on turn 4 and win out of nowhere. We need to respect that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Even if they can tutor up a Reclamation Sage to blow up our Bridge, that's a tutor they could have spent on a Hoof or combo piece. If Elves hasn't killed us by the time we drop a turn 3 or 4 Bridge, it buys enough time for us to either disrupt their plan or win. Not to mention Cage shuts off GSZ so if we have that they have to draw it the hard way.

My sideboard against Elves was -4 Spike, -3 POP; +3 Bridge, +2 Cage, +2 Pillar. Probably should have been -3 Spike, -4 POP, since Elves only runs Cradle and Dryad Arbor, maybe Pendelhaven or a splash dual. They will avoid any of them against us except for Cradle, so we're looking at 2, maybe 4 to the dome, max. OTOH, we have 5 cards in the sideboard that severely disrupt their plan and two more that turn their plan into a reverse clock. Interacting with their deck is so much better than just going to the face.

Elves can untap at 3 life on turn 4 and win out of nowhere. We need to respect that.

---

Quirion Ranger can also return duals and Arbors back to hand, which nerfs PoP even more. Postboard you're likely to see Decays. Takes out all manner of nuisances given most of your hate is cheap permanents.

I mostly just bring bridges in against SnS, reanimator, lands, and merfolk. Alot of times they just can't beat a t3 or t4 bridge and typically they don't expect it.

Using Bridge against Reanimator is a joke when Iona is on the board and they named red. Reanimator is truly a deck you shouldn't even bother trying to fix and just hit it with residual hate from everything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

Using Bridge against Reanimator is a joke when Iona is on the board and they named red. Reanimator is truly a deck you shouldn't even bother trying to fix and just hit it with residual hate from everything else.

---

You are correct.


I have fat fingers and I am posting from my iPhone.