[Deck] Aluren

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Originally Posted by cyberjar

Yeah, why?
I know that this 2 cards kill, but this is not an argument.
Thats what the card does, i'm able of reading cards, it kills, but why does the deck need this?
What problems the deck has without this card does the Strix solve?
Thats how you have to think, now tell me.

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Yeah, I can kill a guy with two card combo straight off, after drawing half the deck, but hey, lets bounce all his cards, discard what irritates us and waste XXX life doing it, instead of killing them straight away.

Using Harpy+Raven requires life. Using clique, oracle, manowar and whatever else, requires life in combo with harpy. If you have/need selkie to gain life with harpy, its just retarded. You can have the same effect of life with addition of opponent losing some life, instead of bouncing a tapped creature.


selkie hedge-mage
Parasitic strix

These two cards are good enough for 1 offs in EVERY build of aluren. And Strix MUST be as it is the single best kill condition available.

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Originally Posted by cyberjar

Dont know how you play this deck, i'm using witnesses all the time. The aditional bounceeffect with Therapy is just a little bonus, she brings back Forces you used to slow down your oponent so you can use them as protection, she makes Intuition that much better, she gets back a fetchland when you're stuck on 3 mana. I also only run 2 because they cant do that much on their own, but i saw lists with only 1, what makes Intuition much weaker, because if something needed is in your grave you cant play intuition and include Witness, and i also saw lists with no Witness and THATS madness.

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I play the deck like aggro combo, with a touch of control, instead of a pure control combo. I never ever played MD therapies until just recently, and I'm still not convinced in playing them in MD. That doesn't matter, witness is cool, 2 may be okay, but more are overkill and not needed - you need fodder aswell.

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Originally Posted by swoop

Yeah, I can kill a guy with two card combo straight off, after drawing half the deck, but hey, lets bounce all his cards, discard what irritates us and waste XXX life doing it, instead of killing them straight away.

Using Harpy+Raven requires life. Using clique, oracle, manowar and whatever else, requires life in combo with harpy. If you have/need selkie to gain life with harpy, its just retarded. You can have the same effect of life with addition of opponent losing some life, instead of bouncing a tapped creature.


selkie hedge-mage
Parasitic strix

These two cards are good enough for 1 offs in EVERY build of aluren. And Strix MUST be as it is the single best kill condition available.

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You say you would play Selkie and Strix as 1-Off in every Alurenbuild, but Strix is the better card, did i understood this right? If yes, wtf?
I think the thing to do is to compare Strix and Selkie. When i have Strix and Harpy i win. Clear point. So there are 3 things to think about:

-Are there some relevant situations, when Harpy+Selkie does not win?

-Wich card is better when you dont have Harpy?

-Wich card is better when you dont have Aluren?

The scond is fast answered, while Strix does not do anything but pitching to FoW or being a 2/2 Selkie is way better when you dont have Harpy, just because the bounceeffect can help you diggin or defends you.
The third is i think also a point for Selkie. Sure, when Aluren is extirpatet you can wing by making Strixcombo hardcast, but i think the situations that speak for Selkie are way more important. Bouncing creatures defends you against aggro and helps you to find things against control, one life more can also be important and it gives the life for nearly sure while Strix needs Harpy.
So the first point is the one you have to be that much on the Strixside that the other 2 are not important anymore.

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I play the deck like aggro combo, with a touch of control, instead of a pure control combo.

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äähm, mkay, dont rly understand what you wanna say^^

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I never ever played MD therapies until just recently, and I'm still not convinced in playing them in MD. That doesn't matter, witness is cool, 2 may be okay, but more are overkill and not needed - you need fodder aswell.

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I think we can aggree on 2 Witnesses :)
And Therapys are mighty if you hit the right things( i might be a little obsessed by my luck i've with this card^^)


€dit:
just thought of playing [card]Edge of Autumn[/card], to bad it cant combo of with harpy :(

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Originally Posted by cyberjar

You say you would play Selkie and Strix as 1-Off in every Alurenbuild, but Strix is the better card, did i understood this right? If yes, wtf?
I think the thing to do is to compare Strix and Selkie. When i have Strix and Harpy i win. Clear point. So there are 3 things to think about:

-Are there some relevant situations, when Harpy+Selkie does not win?

-Wich card is better when you dont have Harpy?

-Wich card is better when you dont have Aluren?

The scond is fast answered, while Strix does not do anything but pitching to FoW or being a 2/2 Selkie is way better when you dont have Harpy, just because the bounceeffect can help you diggin or defends you.
The third is i think also a point for Selkie. Sure, when Aluren is extirpatet you can wing by making Strixcombo hardcast, but i think the situations that speak for Selkie are way more important. Bouncing creatures defends you against aggro and helps you to find things against control, one life more can also be important and it gives the life for nearly sure while Strix needs Harpy.
So the first point is the one you have to be that much on the Strixside that the other 2 are not important anymore.

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Strix wins you games. Selkie never wins you a game. It can get you to infinite life (or finite), but it can't win you the game the turn you start "comboing off".

Strix pitches, and you never want to have it in your hand before you start comboing. Thats why you shuffle it back via brainstorm, or try to avoid it being drawn via draw spells/digging spells like impulse, ponder, LDV or anything else.

Not playing Parasitic Strix is blasphemy. Not playing Selkie Hedge-mage is just a choice of metagame.
Playing both is smart.

You could play harpy + soul warden + cloud of fairies + brainstorm as well as a combo outlet.

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Originally Posted by swoop

Strix wins you games. Selkie never wins you a game. It can get you to infinite life (or finite), but it can't win you the game the turn you start "comboing off".

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Dark Confidant also wins games by itself rarely it still you can say that he wins tons of game.
Sure, Selkie does not win the game by itself, but it takes you in a situation i wich you almost cant lose. This is the thing you have to contradict me if you want this discusion to be succesfull.

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Strix pitches

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dont understand what you wanna say

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and you never want to have it in your hand before you start comboing. Thats why you shuffle it back via brainstorm, or try to avoid it being drawn via draw spells/digging spells like impulse, ponder, LDV or anything else.

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Nice4u that you always have a brainstorm, i'm not that lucky. With this argumentation we could also play Ali from Kairo, we would get tons of stylepoints and if we would draw him we just say no.
You cant play cards because they dont do damage, cards have to actually do something.
What you wrote there is the same for Selkie.

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Not playing Parasitic Strix is blasphemy.

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With my sins, this one's my least problem.

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Not playing Selkie Hedge-mage is just a choice of metagame.

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In wich metagame you dont want to play it? Or in wich do you want to play it and NOT play a second Strix instead?

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You could play harpy + soul warden + cloud of fairies + brainstorm as well as a combo outlet.

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wtf?

I love Spike Feeder, which neither is necessary nor wins the game the same turn you go off, so what? It's just another option for anyone to pick or pass.

None of you is going to convince the other. I personally understand both positions and I think both are equally reasonable and viable. Choose whatever fits your playstyle better and go your way.

Kill conditions by quality in Aluren:

1. strix+harpy
2. feeder+harpy+manowar
2. maggot carrier + soul warden + harpy
3. harpy+soul warden+cloud of faeries+brain freeze
4. Aggro buildup with "usage of combo"
5. Horned kavu + grapeshot :))) olololol

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Originally Posted by swoop

Kill conditions by quality in Aluren:

1. strix+harpy
2. feeder+harpy+manowar
2. maggot carrier + soul warden + harpy
3. harpy+soul warden+cloud of faeries+brain freeze
4. Aggro buildup with "usage of combo"
5. Horned kavu + grapeshot :))) olololol

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I agree with #1... not sure why you wouldn't go with a win-condition as opposed to a "not-lose" condition?

You are also forgetting my favorite previous win-con for Aluren:
2. harpy + feeder + manowar + etched oracle + wall of roots

(you basically bounce wall of roots for green mana, cast oracle, use feeder to move counters onto oracle and then force them to draw their deck... hahaha)

P.S. I play with recruiters in case that clarifies

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...6&d=1309825835

useful for aggro guys :p

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Originally Posted by swoop

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...6&d=1309825835

useful for aggro guys :p

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Sorry, swoop. That just doesn't belong in an Aluren deck.

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Originally Posted by dameus

Sorry, swoop. That just doesn't belong in an Aluren deck.

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He's trying to be funny...

Phantasmal Image is the first true clone to ever be free under Aluren. I don't know how many to try nor instead of what, but I see potential for it.

you'll never copy a harpy nor Clique nor manowar, so you cant cut it. Coiling Oracle can be cast second round and cant be replaced. When you have the choice if you wanna copy familiar or oracle you'll choose familiar. copying Selkie is not that much interesting under Aluren. So there are 2 cards you could want to copy under Aluren: Familiar and Witness. This Freedom is not worth a card that does nothing on its own, nothing with Harpy, cannot be bounced with manowar/selkie.
Dont think its actually good, try it if you want and tell us what you think.

And now forget what i said, that card is nice :D
Could imagine that it fits into the man-o-war-slot.
cons: dissynergie with chain of vapor.
In the condition i am at the moment could be that i talk trash :)

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Originally Posted by Nonex

Phantasmal Image is the first true clone to ever be free under Aluren. I don't know how many to try nor instead of what, but I see potential for it.

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The card is interesting. its a second recruiter, harpy, whatever you have on board, and basically its great as a "solution card".

I've been thinking and pondering about testing it with dream stalker (obv bounceable by it) and by cutting something, probably probes.

2 or 3 Images are great, they kill off opposing Gaddock Taeg, they help you if you get a situation where your harpy gets countered, or where your raven isn't enough to dig deep and you need to go deeper into the deck for solution.

i'll see and try it I guess

how does he help when harpy gets countered?
I see him as a alternative bounce creature, so in rec-less-versions could he be playable in the slots of Man-O-War.
But he does not bounce Cannonist nor Painter.
He costs less Mana and is faster in reproducing citp-triggers from your creatures preAluren

If your opponent knows what he is doing, then he will counter harpy.

You play raven. play Image, copy raven and dig 6 cards hoping for another solution. if you have dream stalker or harpy or any other spell, thats it.

it can be used to confuse opponents all the time. Whats the problem with painter? when he's in, you just hope he doesn't have grindstone anyways.

You still hate strix in deck?

This thread is substantially dead.

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Originally Posted by swoop

If your opponent knows what he is doing, then he will counter harpy.

You play raven. play Image, copy raven and dig 6 cards hoping for another solution. if you have dream stalker or harpy or any other spell, thats it.

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ok, misunderstood what you wrote, my foult
Wich card you want to take out of wich list for the image?

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Whats the problem with painter? when he's in, you just hope he doesn't have grindstone anyways.

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When your op plays combo you just hope he fizzles?

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You still hate strix in deck?

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sure

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Originally Posted by kiblast

This thread is substantially dead.

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true, true

Tried image, its cool, maybe 1 off in recruiter version.

dream stalker vs manowar - i'd use them both maybe even 2 or 3 in total

Swoop, so what is your current decklist then? I would love to play the decklist from Chanelfireball, but I dont have any recruiters. Thank you

I played/loved this deck years ago (recruiter version), but the problem we will never solve is "only 4 Aluren" in the deck. Hand disruptable, Krosan Grippable, Extirpateable and many able able...

If Wizards printed something fauna shaman style, let's imagine Aluren Shaman 2GG Whatever creature - type 0/1 with the same text rules as aluren, this deck could see play again.
But we don't have Aluren #5-8. This is the most important issue IMHO.

Of course Wizards will never print such a critter...