[Primer] Elves!

The issue with the Bog/Rotation plan is the moment you draw Bog you have lost your answer. You go from a "Virtual" 3 answers to a Literal none. You lose all ability to interact outside of Sorcery speed. To me this is just too much of a liability and I long ago cut the card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trevaftw

And that's variance. I've had that happen to me, and I've played games where they had no daze/stifle or couldn't find a threat. They get the nut, we get the nut.

---

You've successfully confused me now. You're now saying that we have an even (win some, lose some, mostly to equal variance from both decks) matchup against RUG; where before you were saying we don't need Scavenging Ooze because:

Quote:

---

if you're losing that match up you're not playing it right. I've never had trouble with it.

---

I think you should take your own advice and:

Quote:

---

you can't just make blanket generic statements and not back them up.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

You've successfully confused me now. You're now saying that we have an even (win some, lose some, mostly to equal variance from both decks) matchup against RUG; where before you were saying we don't need Scavenging Ooze because:



I think you should take your own advice and:

---

I never said we had an even matchup. Variance =/= 50-50 matchup. I was pointing out that you gave an example of a nut draw (an outlier) which we also can have. My original point still stands.

How about boarding the Miracles matchup. I think it's quite tricky, and obviously the matchup blows.

Let's assume my board for sake of clarity:

4 Therapy
2 Decay
1 Ooze
1 Progenitus
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Choke
2 Thorns
1 Thalia
1 Teeg

My initial thoughts are:
-1 Quirion, -1 Ooze, -1 Heritage, -1 Nettle, -1 Craterhoof

+2 Choke, +2 Decay, +1 Progenitus

What about Teeg? Does it do enough....especially since they always seem to answer it with StP and we're also fighting CB by wanting to play our own Natural Orders.

Thorns/Thalia? If so, what else to cut?

Is Progenitus actually an upgrade to the 2nd Hoof? It dodges StP, but doesnt have haste, while they still have Terminus/Verdict.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trevaftw

I never said we had an even matchup. Variance =/= 50-50 matchup. I was pointing out that you gave an example of a nut draw (an outlier) which we also can have. My original point still stands.

---

After board, RUG has the following potential answers:
4 Bolt
2 "spot removal" = Chain Lightning, Forked Bolt, Fire/Ice, Dismember
3-4 Submerge
1-2 Rough/Tumble

Between 10-12 pieces of removal. Plus 8-11 cantrips. Odds of them getting 2 pieces of removal is very high. An opening with Delver happens about 40% of the time. How is this an outlier?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koby

Here's what I did at the Deals event vs Joseph:

+2 Scavenging Ooze
+1 Thalia
-1 Viridian Shaman
-1 Craterhoof?
-1 Quirion Ranger? (don't have as much time to durdle, need to go off ASAP)

Heritage Druid is hyper important in this matchup. Perhaps -1 Elvish Visionary instead of Quirion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk

That's pretty much what I do.
-1 Hoof, -1 V. Shaman, -1 Visionary, -1 Arbor
+2 Ooze, +1 Thalia, +1 Thorn

Honestly when I played Crop Rotation + Bojuka Bog, I was really impressed with it against Dredge. One MU wasn't enough to keep it around though.

---

Thanks for the replies. Koby, is there a reason why you don't board in thorns? Also with your suggestion, I posted my list and my tourney report from Saturday btw. Igri, do you have a second thorn you're not bringing in? Because I'm running the no-utility birchlore build (4 birchlore, 4 NO), I was actually thinking about boarding this way: -2 visionary, -1 hoof, +2 thorn, +1 ooze. The logic is I still have maximum explosiveness with additional hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nudon

Thanks for the replies. Koby, is there a reason why you don't board in thorns? Also with your suggestion, I posted my list and my tourney report from Saturday btw. Igri, do you have a second thorn you're not bringing in? Because I'm running the no-utility birchlore build (4 birchlore, 4 NO), I was actually thinking about boarding this way: -2 visionary, -1 hoof, +2 thorn, +1 ooze. The logic is I still have maximum explosiveness with additional hate.

---

Exactly. Against dredge, TES, ANT, or whatever other broken deck you play, you don't want to side out any of your 1-drop elves. I don't cut Symbiote either for the best possible Glimpse chains as early as possible. And yes, I only bring in one Thorn because that's all I have in my sb atm. I'd bring in two if I had them. I only side out an Arbor because I play two mb for clarity.

Edit: I am switching back to two Thorns most likely. I was testing a Choke in one of those slots for Miracles, but combo is more prevalent.

Heart of the Storm Vol. 5 - Hero's Come Back! is finally online on MTG TheSource! Check it out!

You won? Nice. Oh and you can keep your Jace's, I want those Diamonds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dice_Box

You won? Nice. Oh and you can keep your Jace's, I want those Diamonds.

---

I fear you have to draw a number xP

Have a nixe week, pal

Cradlewalker. Makes things to hit Miracles with. Is red, sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zombie

Cradlewalker.

---

What is Cradlewalker?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absolutflipz

How about boarding the Miracles matchup. I think it's quite tricky, and obviously the matchup blows.

Let's assume my board for sake of clarity:

4 Therapy
2 Decay
1 Ooze
1 Progenitus
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Choke
2 Thorns
1 Thalia
1 Teeg

My initial thoughts are:
-1 Quirion, -1 Ooze, -1 Heritage, -1 Nettle, -1 Craterhoof

+2 Choke, +2 Decay, +1 Progenitus

What about Teeg? Does it do enough....especially since they always seem to answer it with StP and we're also fighting CB by wanting to play our own Natural Orders.

Thorns/Thalia? If so, what else to cut?

Is Progenitus actually an upgrade to the 2nd Hoof? It dodges StP, but doesnt have haste, while they still have Terminus/Verdict.

---

I'm not positive about the entire boarding plan but I would keep Progenitus in the side. Also Teeg shuts down Jace, Force, TERMINUS, and Entreat. He should always come in here, and I'm pretty sure you want Thalia too. Maybe bring her over Decay if you're on the play? Or if you know they're not running CB? I think CB is only scary if they can land it on turn 2, and if they do, we still have NO/GSZ/Pridemage as potential outs.

If you have spare slots for Pithing Needles, Needle on Top is freaking nasty for Miracles. The deck has a tendency to shit on itself without an active Top.

Cradlewalker:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...8&d=1378267497

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zombie

Cradlewalker:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...8&d=1378267497

---

WOW. Thats fucking nuts. Pity the other two abilities are not that helpful for us.

Alright.
This weekend is probably my last "big" event in preparation for GP Washington. Expecting between 50-70 people.
My main concern is to build an overall SB plan against most of the match ups I might encounter.

Known decks in the meta:

Punishing Jund
RUG Delver
UWR Delver
OmniTell/Dream Halls
Merfolks
ANT

I'm open to ideas and suggestions.
What would be YOUR sideboard composition and plan in regards to those matchups?
I'm looking for explanations on your choices.

Also. Received my Source playmat last night.
Gotta show your support.

Going to seprate each match and have a look at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

Punishing Jund

---

Ooze, Jitte and Progen. I find Jitte helps, because even with Burn and the constant attempt at clearing your field, once you have counters on it all you need to do is draw cheap Critters and your gold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

RUG Delver

---

Thar and Ooze. I like using Ooze to cut off Snapcaster targets and Thar can block and limits spell options for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

UWR Delver

---

I have very little experience against this deck sorry. I do not feel I can be of help here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

OmniTell/Dream Halls

---

Thorn, Teeg and Thar all pull weight here. I personally would bring in every Tax effect you have and go for broke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

Merfolks

---

Jitte, Viridian Shaman and Harmonic. Jitte hurts them since it gives you directed targeting of their Lords. Mostly though I gun for Vial. An open Vial is more dangerous than you would normally think and killing Vial limits the crap that can be pulled with Standstill. In any deck that plays with Vial I try and kill it. The instant speed drops of powerful Lords or control creatures make this one of the most effective Artifacts in Legacy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kayradis

ANT

---

Ooze (If they have Past in Flames), Thorn, Thar and Teeg. Normal rules apply. Try not to lose and lock them before they kill you. Personally I find Ooze to be more useful than you would think right away. One life gained increases the amount of storm they need. Also killing Dark Ritual can hamper Past's versatility.

Thanks for the input! At this point here's the config of the SB

4 x Cabal Therapy
2 x Abrupt Decay
1 x Ruric Thar
1 x Jitte (debatable)
7 x Free Slots

I would add:
Locks: Thorn and Teeg
Art and Enhant Hate: Viridian and Harmonic
Grave Hate: Ooze
Jitte is a personal touch of mine, if you do not feel like its would be that useful you need not run it.

As I look over this I am thinking:
3/4 Thorn
1 Teeg
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ruric Thar
1 Jitte
1/2 Ooze
1 Viridian/Harmonic

I really love thorn.
How's thalia for you?

2 x Thorn
2 x Abrupt Decay
4 x Cabal Therapy
1 x Scavenging Ooze
1 x Ruric Thar
1 x Gaddock Teeg
2 x Thalia (?)
1 x Sylvan Safekeeper
1 x Flex Slot