Is it really that bad? I'm always happy to have it against delver variants as I don't want to get primeval titan dazed or forced. Though it is only prime time. I'm guessing you've got more practice than me though.
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Is it really that bad? I'm always happy to have it against delver variants as I don't want to get primeval titan dazed or forced. Though it is only prime time. I'm guessing you've got more practice than me though.
I thought a lot of purtting a trop out.
But the problem is that then you only have 8 blue sources for 10 blue cards. And after board you are usualy really blue intensive.
Will test it anyway. May be its enought.
It's not that it's bad, it's more that it's redundant for something we have more important things to do, especially regarding the fact it only produces colored mana for Primeval Titan. And generally, it's less strenuous to Show and Tell him into play than search up Cavern. It's an awkward fit in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by endqwerty
Cavern of Souls is better in MUD-Post where there are more creatures to resolve and none of the color alignment to cause worry. Plus as strange as it sounds, forcing through a Sundering Titan in MUD-Post is more relevant than forcing through a Primeval Titan in 12-Post.
Hi all!
A few months ago I sold off my entire Legacy collection due to iRL. I am now planning to get back into the game and this is one of the few decks that caught my eye. My questions are:
1) How does the deck fare against a wide open meta?
2) Is 12 post a reliable investment? Meaning are their any indications of the deck becoming obsolete in the foreseeable future? I am looking for a long term investment here.
3) If you were to build the deck from scratch, how would you go about considering card availability? As I really wanna be playing soon!
4) Would the deck work without candles? What's the minimum number of candles?
Thanks. :smile:
because I have little experience with this deck dont take this to heart, but imoQuote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
1) as of right now I would say the deck is good in this miracle and fair heavy meta, carsten kotter recently wrote an article about it:http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ys-Legacy.html but from my experience the deck can stumble against combo
2) a majority of the expensive cards in the deck ie: fetches duals forces(sometimes) are all used in various other decks with candle and non-emrakul being the exception
3) if building from scratch or on a budget(not sure if you cant find cards or dont have the money) I would look into the mono green versions while (imo) slightly weaker cheaper to build not needing duals
4) the amount of candles varies from lists i see, I personally play one as they do ramp you greatly but since your whole deck is ramp trimming it isnt a huge deal, if you want to build the strongest version i would just copy whatever Rock Lee is playing, imo he knows best
deck is super fun if you do pick it up im sure you'll enjoy it, but its always better to proxy and playtest before making a huge investment :)
Thanks for this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepaw3
It was actually Carsten's article that led me here! I was initially planning to invest into ANT as I wanted to play a Brainstorm deck without FoW (Much like real life, love-hate relationships aren't healthy, lol). My issue with ANT is since I only get to play at around once a month (usually big tournies only) I don't think I can muster the dedication required to master the deck. Plus, "slamming a hard casted Emrakul" > "counting to 10" in terms of the fun factor. :laugh:
I wouldn't say money is an issue, but I'd rather not invest too much into this. I wouldn't have any problems with the duals, its the the candles I'm having problems about. Not sure how I'd feel about investing hundreds of dollars on an extremely narrow card. Although locally, candles here sell quite cheap (about 8000 PHP; 43 PHP = 1 USD).
I'm going to start testing the Rock Lee list on Cockatrice. That's my only venue for testing these days as work pretty much eats up my week.
New Tezzeret the Seeker win worth reporting from my online testing: he provided a workaround for Chalice of the Void set to 1 counter.
I feel as though Tezzeret the Seeker is fairly clunky if used simply as a Trinket Mage, with the double blue casting cost being a large source of my apprehension (in addition to his location on the curve). On the other hand, he is much better than Trinket Mage when you are looking for Ensnaring Bridges, which could be very relevant.
Are there any artifacts that were previously unexplored in the deck that get better if we are playing Tezzeret? Maybe a 1-of Crucible of Worlds we can tutor for against Wasteland decks?
if we are playing a 5 drop to recast lands i feel like we are already in an ok position, against waste trinket would just be better to get a needleQuote:
Originally Posted by winglerw28
I can think of any artifacts that would warrant playing tezz
It lets you get all your 1-drop artifacts through Chalice of the Void, and it can tutor for Phyrexian Revoker and Ensnaring Bridge post-board. I think that gives it enough merit to be tested some, even if it ends up not being good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firepaw3
After talking about it with Zotmaster IRL, I'm convinced that it falls into the category of probably too cute, but that doesn't mean I'm necessarily right.
I think if you're not playing Show & Tell, then the Cavern is a lot more important. With Cavern in the deck, it become a lot easier to craft a game state where you win by playing it as your 6th or 5th (cloudpost + glimmerpost involved) land and slam Titan into their FoW/Daze.
With Show & Tell in the deck you have the option of jamming S&T, getting it countered and then hoping they dont have a way to counter Titan.
I prefer to win the game w/ Cavern though instead of hoping.
Boseiju, who Shelters All is a thing that might be playable if you're heavy on S&T.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I've tried it and I'm not really a fan. Even when I was running miracle spells like Devastation Tide and Temporal Mastery, Boseiju just doesn't do enough, especially when you consider you can't use it the turn you play it without help from a Candelabra. Boseiju, Who Shelters Show and Tell is even worse and not good enough to warrant a slot in the deck, especially when you consider that Show and Tell is by no means your Plan A.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkenslight
I agree with Cavern being more important if you're not playing Show and Tell...it's also a lot easier to find a slot for it if that is the case. My biggest gripe with Cavern has always been the fact that it's not a reliable source of colored mana, and that's a heavy price to pay for making your Titan uncounterable. I like being able to convert my colored source into another Locus or Chasm if necessary. Also don't underestimate the power of jamming a Show and Tell even if your only plan is, in fact, to get it countered. I've said that Show and Tell is the easiest bluff in all of Magic: if your opponent has countermagic and doesn't have a sideboard answer, you will draw out a counter when you cast it. Your opponent doesn't have to know that you have nothing meaningful to Show in play, and I've used SnT in this way to clear out countermagic in order to resolve something that was more important at the time more than once.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
I been testing a SB Master of the Wild Hunt, Garruk Relentless and a 3rd Oracle (2 main already) in the SB for the BUG matchup.
Garruk has been underwhelming but in some situations exceptional. IE, kill their 1 guy, next turn make a wolf, turn after sac wolf to get Titan.
Master has been great and Oracle is the nutter butters. I run 1 GSZ and 0 S&T right now to see how it plays w/ 2 Oracles + 1 GSZ in place of 3 S&T.
There are matchups where you want S&T a lot more like mono red for example but I have a hard time vs BUG so I went to 2 Oracles + 1 GSZ instead.
I wanted my top decks to be more impactful. Nothing sucks more than top decking S&T when your hand has been shredded.
Oracle and GSZ are definitely king against BUG. Also if you're bold and don't fear blood moon, Khalni Garden is big game too. But I think a lot of peoples problems come from undervaluing top and brainstorm. Top will carry you through the discard. Mull to them!Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
In my testing so far, Tezzeret the Seeker's primary function is a cross between Fog that gets the artifact I need most (because anyone that lets him live will be sorely mistaken) and Primeval Titan number 5 (meaning his presence by resolving onto the field warps the direction of the game). The :u::u: is not a problem in my experience because the deck has a past regularly casting Venser, Shaper Savant, and one of my favorite things about this deck is the ease I've had hardcasting Force of Will when I play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by winglerw28
The reason I started testing Tezzeret is because he puts relevant artifacts straight onto the field. My favorite is Candelabra of Tawnos because of the interactions that come with plussing Tezzeret off that. But here is a list of other historically relevant artifacts that Locus decks play that Tezzeret can fetch:
Cursed Totem
Ensnaring Bridge
Expedition Map
Oblivion Stone
Pithing Needle
Phyrexian Revoker
Sensei's Divining Top
About where Tezzeret falls on the curve though... there's a reason I'm only testing one mainboard. The deck can function without him, but he provides a new form of interaction that so far has expedited victory when resolving him, except once when he didn't help when I got blindsided by Armageddon. That wasn't his fault though.
So I did a bunch of testing tonight against a mini-gauntlet of decks and was wondering how I should be playing against Elves. From our testing it seemed like you really need an early Show and Tell against them, but I am not sure if I'm playing everything how I should in the MU. Since I am a relatively new player, I'm hoping you guys can help me out. :smile:
It really depends on your list. Pithing Needle on Deathrite + Glacial Chasm is usually game over.Quote:
Originally Posted by winglerw28
I recently just completed this deck as it is very intriguing. I have read all the pages in the forum 2 times now but am curious if anyone has any links to videos of the deck in motion? Specifically any that have tournament play involved so i can see the reactions of cards drawn and such? Any help in advance would be wonderful.
-Thanks again for the awesome deck!
Moment's Peace is also a great card against them. Phyrexian Revoker slows them down because your can hit any of their mana elves. Mindbreak Trap can ruin a plan of theirs. Generally though, if they won't scoop, you need either an Oblivion Stone/All is Dust if you play sweeps (although they aren't necessary) or the Emrakul, the Aeons Torn+Karakas combo to finish them off because they generate a lot of permanents that they can feed into the annihilator trigger and still be in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by winglerw28
Check out scg somerset, nj from two weekends ago. Scg also has a youtube page.Quote:
Originally Posted by balkothe
Did you search scg archives?Quote:
Originally Posted by balkothe
No I didnt search the archives, I was not aware that SCG had them. I will do that tonight. I have now tested the deck close to 100 matches and loving it so far. Cant wait to see the videos to see if I am doing anything wrong.
-thanks again everyone!
You can check mtgcoverage.com and search for 12-post, Jeremiah Rudolph, or just look through legacy in general. It's quite helpful for watching specific videos. (note: secondary matches aren't noted or tracked though)
http://www.mtgcoverage.com/asearch.php?deck=12+PostQuote:
Originally Posted by endqwerty
Or just read my tournament recap where I link the 3 videos I was on camera. If you had read the thread x2 as you said you would know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by balkothe
Added 10 matchups to the 1st page for the new meta. Just brief things, but enough to get a glimpse.
Rock-
I did read your write ups, actually more than the specified 2 times.
-However your write ups will greatly in detail dont have EVERYTHING, so i prefer to watch it if i can.
-General questions:
1. if in your opening hand you have brainstorm and SDT, do you top first or brainstorm at end of their turn? Or is this dependent on your hand? (Assuming your on the play, but does it change if you are not)
-My initial thoughts are if on the play, SDT first turn, if not brainstorm?
What possible rationale could you have for Brainstorming on their EoT? What are you trying to accomplish with this line? You're not doing any relevant card selection with that, nor do you generally have a strong idea of what specific cards you want at that point. If you are looking for a specific card for the second turn, just spin Top on your 2nd upkeep to look for it, you see the same amount of cards. Unless you have a very specific scenario in mind (such as the option of searching for a free counter in a fast combo matchup or some such, or a card you specifically need to hide from a turn one discard spell), opening Top is almost always going to be the better line to take. EoT Brainstorm 'for value' to me seems like one of the worst possible openings you can have in this deck, only (slightly) trailed by opening Forest into Crop Rotation for Eye of Ugin when they open on Wasteland. Even just Island, Go is probably always better than a Turn 1 Brainstorm for no strong reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by balkothe
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...rainstorm.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by balkothe
http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...of-brainstorm/
If i remember correctly these two articles explain the basic of paying brainstorm.
Read them, it may be an epiphany.
My personal opinion is that the correct use of brainstorm is NOT to cast it unless you are forced to do so: it's a reactive card, a red button to push in emergency.
Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.
General rule with brainstorm is exactly that. Use it at the latest time you can. Of course this doesn't mean use it late. Knowing that timing is essential in this deck and simply requires experience and practice. This same logic is used for top, map and needle in this deck. One of the many reasons this deck is difficult to play.
This also means you can keep on lands + Brainstorm and just play lands and sit on the brainstorm until needed.
So Star City Games Providence is this weekend. I remember seeing Jeremiah Rudolf playing that event three years ago is what revealed this deck's existence to me. So any Post players that are making it out that way this weekend, I wish you guys the best.
Providence is like the Mecca of the post deck, may all the pilgrims find fortune there.
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Little tournament today, 5 rounds to play.
List:
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Vesuva
4 Tropical Island
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Khalni Garden
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Forest
2 Moment's Peace
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Repeal
3 Expedition Map
3 Show and Tell
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
SB :
2 Karn Liberated
3 Swan Song
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Elephant Grass
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Yes, 99,9999985% of Rock Lee's list^^
Finished 3-1-1, deck felt really good.
Round 1 : Maverick (2:0)
Two very, very long games (game 2 all 4 Wastelands resolved, killing 3 cloudposts. Don't ask me where needles/crop rotation were loitering)
Round 2 : UWr Patriot (1:1:1)
Quick game 1, after casting Kozilek opponents scoops. Didn't see the red splash, so I didn't board....
Game 2: Blood moon any many counters, Snapcaster Mage beatdown (boarding Karn or second basic Forest would have been great)
Game 3 : Early Blood moon, Pithing Needle @SSDT, many counters...resolving Titan in 2. extra turn, too late....
Round 3 : Mirror-Match-Time!! (2:0)
Game 1: he starts, putting posts into play. I,'ve got candelabra, EoT Cloudpost, my next turn Glimmerpost, Kozilek, victory.
Game 2: early Karn (3rd round thanks to candelabra + enemy posts, starting to eat his posts) wins me the game.
Round 4: Elves (0:2)
Game 1 : he combos off 3rd turn, no crop in hand, lethal attack
Game 2 : added Elephant Grass, Swan Song from the SB, game was extended a lot. I had to hide behind chasm, unable to find needle for DRS or some fatty, so finally he get's me with a second Craterhoof Behemoth.
Round 5: TES (2:0)
Game 1 : he combos off, goes for burning wish, empty hand. So I crop into chasm, looking at 16 Goblins from empty the Warrens. I'm @19 life, enough time to develop the board and win
Game 2: very similar to game 1, plus my opponent had some really bad draws :-/
After all, the list seems to be really solid. I failed at the UWr match 2nd round, no doubt. Elves are totally difficult to fight, at least for me. Will have to do a lot of pratice for this MU. Elephant Grass isn't a good bullet at all for this MU. ATM I'm really tinkering on a second Forest MD, would have been nice today.
A rules question on Vesuva under Blood Moon :
Blood Moon already in play, Forest on my side as well. I guess I can play Vesuva, naming Forest as target. Causing Vesuva to enter the battlefield tapped, becoming a basic forest and so it's unaffected by the Bloodmoon. Is this correct?
This is correct. You will then be able to cast a Primeval Titan under Blood Moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Jeremiah Rudolph is about to be on the feature match for SCG Providence! You know what to do.
http://twitch.tv/scglive
Rock Lee on air! Good luck!
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Jeremiah Rudolph (AKA Rock Lee) is the feature match of the SCG tournament right now! Wish him luck!
Edit: Unfortunately Jeremiah lost 0-2 due to mana screw, although he had a VERY close G1.
that wasteland activation though
I think he made a mistake the turn he repealed. He had enough mana to cast the s&t with the candlestick. That might have been a turning point of that game, either on sword / crusader or even better on the mind censor of the doom.
The g2 starting hand seems also greedy.
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