Printable View
You use Inquisition which hits only one Planeswalker so four Vindicate is the right number here. Your mana denial plan is strong which lessens other forms of removal. Creature removal. I think Damnation is in order. This feels like a heavy board control variant, mass removal is needed MD.
What matchup do you need damnation for? You certainly beat Tribal after sideboarding. I already have 10 removal spells main deck...
Inquisition is the way to go. I don't need to take away Plainswalkers just because opponents rarely have more than 3 lands in play.
I use the next deck for some tournaments in our city:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [UNH] Plains
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [R] Scrubland
1 [EVE] Fetid Heath
4 [OD] Swamp (2)
2 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [U] Scrubland
// Creatures
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [FUT] Tombstalker
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [AP] Vindicate
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [6E] Perish
SB: 2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
what do you think about it?
you have only 6 Removal (4 Swords 2 Vindicate), for me not enough to feel comfortable, but I don't know what your opponents play, so maybe this is enough :wink:
maybe you could describe your local meta a bit, cause i don't know where you are from, and for instance german and american legacy differs a lot.
@Gvaelbur: Mother of Runes looks a bit out of place here. She's there to protect Confidant, Tombstalker? Your 10 discard MD should do that just fine. I'd look into more pinpoint removal (meta depending of course). I'd raise the Vindicate count to at least three. Also, one Elspeth, really? I'm not a fan of one-ofs outside of combo. Sure, you have BoB and 8 fetches+top but I feel 2 is the right number. Mox Diamond is interesting. I am a huge fan of that card but have never tested it in Deadguy. Is first turn Hymn the only reason? Very different from my build but looks better against combo.
I have been playing Deadguy since September. The deck has put up amazing stats for me. Lots of x-1's with top fours. The deck can compete with anything it faces. The list I've been running as follows. This deck is packing some serious card advantage. 2 for ones with hymn. Tidehollow takes one as I play one. Mom locks down the battlefield. BOB draws forever. SFM refills your hand. and the swords draw you cards or pull out of the yard.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Mother of Runes
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Jitte
1 SoFI
1 SoLS
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
2 Urborg Tomb of...
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plain
Sideboard per meta Usually been running 4 extirpate and 2 Fae Mcabre, 4 pithing needle, 3 Duress, 2 Perish
Just some thoughts on Matchups. I have not lost to storm combo yet. Tidehollow helps shore up that matchup. Survival has been 50/50 independent of build. Enough graveyard hate in its best form really helps...Needles as well. SFM is the nuts...she is the best top deck in any situation. I use to run gatekeepers instead of bobs...mistake...bob is nuts...plus triple black is difficult to get. The deck in this form is very dependent upon drawing equipment, but that has rarely been a problem for me with bob and 7 ways to get equipment. Has anyone else tried something similar to this build? A note about Nighthawk...he keeps you in games you have no business being in....Today a second turn iona was resolved against me...I dropped a nighthawk and was able to fend off iona for over 7 or so turns... He just beats some decks by himself...also with an active mom it makes for some awkward combat situations for the opponent.
4 confidants is a must but do you really need all four Mystics? With just three targets I would think it would be dead from time to time. I go back and forth on Sculler. I love the flavor, the cost, the whole package. I just hate when I remove a key card and he gets zapped eot. You have Mom to protect it but she really needs to be protecting Bob and Nighthawk.
Also, have you seen that new white knight spoiled? Looks pretty sick here. WW is tough since you run Hymn but pro green and doublestrike is exceptional, eps since you run all four Mystics.
I have never questioned the 4th mystic. One will usually get countered. Plus the deck is low on p/t quality creatures so it is dependent on the equipment and SFM #4 maximizes drawing them for me. The deck basically runs just enough disruption to buy you the time to get equipment out and start creating insane card advantage.
To Leto, Oiolosse: my meta is very different, but the most frequantly are agro decks
Ideas:
4 stp +2 vindi: I use vindicates not for removal, but for killing Jace and other walkers, and for destroing arts,enchantments and so on, 10 discard spell anough to stop agro plan
3 mox diamonds: its not only faster start, but also they give us posibility to use more lands that dont give colour mana such as mishra factory,wasteland, fetid heath
mother of runes is a perfect creature, it protects our confidants and other warriors from removals, and perfectly blocks enemy boys
single elspeth is a deck keeper and sudden win condition for many games
I understand using Vindicates for Planeswalkers, artifacts, enchantments and trouble lands but then that leaves you with just 4 Swords for spot removal. If your meta is aggro heavy then I don't see how just 4 stp will hold it back. Discard does do a good job against all sorts of spells, creatures included, but it is a proactive solution against proactive opponents, which doesn't fare too well in my experience. Gerrard's Verdict doesn't do much good games 2 and 3 when all the opponent saw in way of removal game 1 was stp.
I would give EE a shot in place of Verdicts. You will blow out your Mother of Runes and your Confidants from time to time but you'll at least have MD answers to EtW and Tribal decks.
Elpseth has proved to be amazing in my build. But then again I have an unconventional list that better utilizes her.
Vindicate is one of the "Swiss Knifes" (hope you know what i mean, cause dont know if its the fitting Term in english^^) off the Deck, that grants you to get no real bad matchups. But as Oiolosse sad, if your meta is heavy aggro you need more removal, one good Topdeck of your opponent and no discard can rescue you (since all is Sorcery-Speed) and an Tarmo comes around.
On Elspeth i aggre with you, she is god in most matchups, stalls against Zoo infinite or pumps your equipped guys to a 3-rund clock (which is badass). Ulti is cool too :wink:
EEs got a place in my deck just yesterday after testing and realizing I need some sort of Sweeper. Worked pretty well in the last 5 or six games. Maybe provokes a grip to save your Sticks played on next turn^^
// Lands
2 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
6 Swamp
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk
// Spells
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Relic of Progenitus
this is the list I run at the moment, set up mainly to rip apart Zoo and other aggro-decks (goblin-mu is not bad either when you catch the lackey on the play with inquisition or on the draw with sword)
the number of Cards is maybe a bit uncommon but worked out pretty well for me and is constantly evolving
sideboard is pretty much against everything beside aggro, hymns against control, Canonist to fist combo and Jotun+Relic against Dredge, Thresh, Loam...
Hmm....I thought that Thoughtseize and Wasteland are very useful in these kinds of decks, why dont you use it?
I play Inquisition above TS at the moment cause I play mainly against all kinds off aggro and the Inquisition picks (nearly) all relevant Critters without the "pay 2 Life" which CAN break your back in some games. This is one of the main reasons for Else > Bitterblossom too, with this deck i can stabilize on really low life and beat my opponent with nearly all options my deck has, only Confi is risky (but makable with Top online)
But I know from some other Discussion that not few Players see it TS > Inqui cause you can pick really everything and I respect that, but I havent yet the moment where I thougt "goddamn, give me that TS" maybe when that moment pops up, I change the slots or play split^^
Wastelands are not included to hold the manabase as stable es possible. I have heavy coloured Manacosts with triple-B, double-B or double-W and simply cannot use colourless mana for most the time, so hand with Wasteland+Land+goodstuff is crap most of the time. This is a major problem. In a deadguy relying heavily on LD/Manadenial feat. Vindi+Sinkhole+ maybe Smallpox and Loam I would play it for sure, but weaken my manabase heavily for a random Screw once a time is not appealing for me (in my experience you get most of the games with an randomscrew in your hands anyway, maybe not so fast and secure but you would get it)
this is only my opinion as an Legacy-noob but as far it worked out^^
EDIT: What do you guys think about the spoiled white guy, doublestrike + protection from vegetables and pointremoval sounds like the perfect carrier for our Swords (double-trigger *yummiÜ). Supporting WW wasn't big trouble until now and gets with him even more interesting. With SoFaI he hits for 12, draws 2 cards and has prot from everything, except white. That is badass^^
I won't be playing the new guy....Double white will be hard to get. I like Nighthawk In my 3cc slot as well, he just does so much...but who knows, until the new guy is tested not much can be said.
Short tourney report from a weekly. 18 people. Very diverse meta.
R1 Sneak Show
g1 turn one discard and turn two tidehollow after he mulls. He scoops after a few turns
g2 Thoutseize and hymn on turn two gg
1-0 2-0
r2 goblins
g1 I'm able to hold him off for 5 turns with removal and discard until I get a SOFI online.
g2 More of the same..SOFI is too much, especially with Nighthawk.
2-0 4-0
r3 Bant Surviva a vine
g1 He mulls to five...sees one land in first 3 draws, I vindicate his land, then another the next turn.
g2 I have a lackluster hand, so does he and I lose to pumped up rootwallas because all of my guys are bears without equipment
g3 We both build an impressive board, I'm swinging with Nighthawk with SOLS to negate his double vengevine attacks. Eventually I perish the board and swing in for the W
3-0 6-1
r4 ooze survival
g1 Bob gets me down to 3 life and he fauna shamans on triskelion to finish me...I had double nighthawk and was going to be swinging with equipment the next turn
g2 Progenitus turn 3 with no answeres
3-1 6-3
top 8 bw control (kind of a mirror except not)
g1 takes about 40 minutes as we each anwer everything...eventually I stick a nightwak with both swords and finish him
g2 he dominates from the get go with double hymn
g3 we decide to draw because it is midnight and we want to go home
3-1-1 7-4
Nighthawk one me a few games...Bob won me a few games....SFM is the nuts....Mulliganned only once all night
gz to your performance, makes me even more eager to get the missing parts of my deck together^^
Congratulations Jade! Could you share your list?
Really like your MD, any thoughts on a post-Survival sideboard? There probably isn't as much a demand for 6 'yard hate spells and 4 Needle, though I'm not sure what would be best. Maybe some extra removal to stall versus Tribal and Zoo while you get equipment online? Some sort of 'Disenchant' type effects might be nice too if expecting a resurgence in CBT and Enchantress (possibly Affinity too depending what the rest of this block brings).Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeOberg
This deck still seems positioned well though, so hopefully it continues to be tuned and do well.
First off, huge props to Gene for top 8ing in Kansas City this past weekend. Gene and I are in the the same play group. We play slightly different lists of Deadguy but his worked nicely as he went 7-1 in swiss and loss in the quaterfinals during a sudden death game 3 against Goblins. His opponent was on the play in game three and showed him the turn one lackey, so Gene mulled down to two to find and answer and couldn't... and ended up losing under unusual and unfortunate circumstances...his deck dominates goblins with no time restraints..... Anyhow. Deadguy will get a little more attention maybe after his placing. Star City games has his deck list.
@Dr.Nojman my list is about 5 posts up.
@cairo Post survival....I think I'll cut the graveyard hate down to 5 cards...however since the banning I've seen Dredge in both tournaments I've played in (one I lost playing with Faeries...the other I won playing Zoo) I think I am going to run 4 Mcabre and 1 extirpate in the board...Mcabre is so sick...allowing us to be aggressive and tapping out while still being able to remove their stuff at instant speed and without being countered. Neddle is so amazing against everything that I think I will always play 3 or 4 in my board...with increase in CB decks, top will always be hit.... I name deed, or EE or planeswalkers, or belcher, seigegang, or vial or anything really. I'll keep atleast two duress for Combo. Additional permanent hate would be ideal...Needle takes care of a lot of these, but i understand the disenchant effect desire. I'm going to just settle being comfy with vindicate and and my discard. I think that Newhorizon will see some more play now (since it was argueably the best deck between reanimator and survival) so perish should still be well positioned...at that will usually get two zoo animals for you. I don't think the board needs major changes at this point. We crush goblins and merfolk...and they were each well represented in Kansas City. I still really like this deck and will play it at larger tournaments. For now I'm playing anything with Price of Progress :) at my local shop. Lots of Duals running around.
Another thing we should consider is with the increase in CB decks...is Aether Vial going to become an auto include? Gene's list may indicate that...I'm excited to read his matchup reports
I’ll try to answer any questions for a week until I disappear into stalking these forums again.
I apologize for grammar, spelling, and other mistakes – writing this with 4 hours of sleep and 10-12ish hours of magic. I feel I owe the MTG online community for my Top 4, so here is my report for Starcitygames Legacy Open: San Jose.
An intro about myself. My name is Ricky and I mainly play legacy casual, and I stalk these forums because I like Legacy. I hate Mulligans and SBing. My friends convinced me to go along with them even though I was really hesitant, especially when I had to wake up at 6:30 AM to prepare for the trip. I was choosing between Death and Taxes and Deadguy Ale (with or without Vials).
I made Deadguy Ale last weekend and play tested for like 4-6 hours with my friends, mainly playing against Counter Rebel, Pox, and Elves, and some casual decks. I did get in 3 games each against Merfolk and Goblins. One of my friends, Denny, played Counterbalance but we never got to play each other (he was focusing on the goblin and merfolk matchups). I didn’t really get to play deadguy ale a lot, but it’s somewhat similar to DnT. Less tricks, but better removal and hand disruption. In the end I chose Deadguy because I love hand disruption and like to know what is in another person’s hand.
The day before the tournament, I was mulling over to play something similar to JadeOBerg’s list or the one that Top 8thed in Kansas City. I decided to go with JadeOBergs because I think Vial is only good with tricks and the only trick Vial I think was good for was Sculler during their draw step. Otherwise we have a bunch of grizzly bears with some awesome abilities which don’t change the board presence at all, unlike flickerwisp and mangara. The way I see it, Deadguy Ale with Vial is more like DnT, but with a weaker creature base combined with hand disruption. And Nighthawk is the bomb because you will lose a lot of life due to Thoughtseize and Dark Confidant and Fetches. Also, people say Vial will help you with Counterbalance, but with so much hand disruption we have, I wasn't too worried about Counterbalance (also vindicate). And Needles can come in against Counterbalance and Vial decks.
Here was the list I ended up playing and notes of why I picked them. A combination of JadeOBerg's points and my love of DnT. I expected tribal mainly and combo and never expected counterbalance (3 made top 8, and my friend was placed 9th). But either way, I don’t think I have enough experience with any matchup with this deck, so I just went with the flow.
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes - Good to protect your other dudes who have awesome abilities. If it gets to tap, it is a lot of CA
4 Tidehollow Sculler - The reason I picked Deadguy Ale, I love this card just by reading it and discard is awesome. However, it can be underwhelming at times if they have 2 removal spells and its basically a grizzly bear
4 Dark Confidant - Black = BoB of Tombstalker, and I had BoBs and no Tombstalkers)
4 Stoneforge Mystic - I agree with JadeOBerg here. The P/T of creatures in this deck suck. Equipment is needed to win.
4 Vampire Nighthawk - This vs Serra Avenger, but without Vial, Nighthawk came in.
Spells
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares –
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Vindicate
I initially ran 3 duress over the inquisitions and diabolic edict. But since I expected tribal, I opted for inquisition to stop their aggroness. Diabolic edict is there for random emrakuls, progenitius, and random stuff.
Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrublands
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
5 swamp
3 plains
Some people like fetches, but I like basics. 14 black – 12 white ratio seems okay to me.
Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Faerie Macabre
3 Engineered Plague
1 Path to Exile
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Duress
Honestly I didn’t know what to pick for my sideboard so I went for the generic stuff. Needle is good against random targets. Faerie Macabere vs the Artifact GY Hate – I like hatebears more because I can easily swap creature for creature instead of having to decide on what to side out. Plagues are for elves and goblins – not so well against merfolk when they have 12 or more lords. Removal for aggro and duresses for control and combo.
Random thoughts –
Nighthawk was good, but 4 may be too much because 1) It never comes down turn 3 unless I had nothing else to play. Can clog up hands.
Tidehollow Sculler – Either a champion or a dead card depending on what you see in their hand.
Equipment Package + Mystics – really mana intensive. Can slow you down and you will lose or help you win.
Diabolic Edicts – Underwhelming today. No emrakul or progenitus and maybe that was a good thing.
Faerie Macabre – Only mattered in 1 match up, but I either played it wrong or it wasn’t enough.
Friend recommended Elspeth, Knight-Errant, but this deck have mana problems the first few turns of the game.
I fetched SoFI unless I can equip a Jitte next turn that can swing. SoLS was when I needed life.
Here were my matchups based on recollection. I apologize if I forget anything. I’ll edit this post if I remember more. I apologize if I spell your name wrong. I’ll try to include my SB decisions if I remember correctly and they may be wrong so don’t take this as a guide. Also, I don’t really know how to SB and I am too impatient for mulligans. Shuffling the deck drives me crazy sometimes…so I tend to keep playable, and not stellar hands.
Match 1 New Horizons (Saw Knight, Goyfs, and Terravore) – Ryan (won die roll)
G1 (w)
I destroyed his lands with Wasteland and Vindicate and stalled out until I beat with SoFI
G2 (L) - Inquisitions for Path and Edict.
He stifled my wasteland and wastelanded my only land.
G3 (w)
I started with hand disruption with MoM protecting me until I drew removal. Interesting note was that I casted a Mystic fetching SoFI. I believed he drew 2 stifles afterwards and stifled the ability twice. Didn’t really get to land the SoFI until 3-5 turns later.
Confidant = super card advantage.
Match 2 – Dredge – Andy (won die roll)
G1 (w)
Tidehollow sculler and mainboard discard stalled him until I landed a SoFI.
G2 (L) - Moms for faerie macabres, and stp for needles. Removal stp was a mistake.
I had hand disruption + dark confidant on opening hand. I discarded his Cabal therapy, but he drew another one right after, and he made me discard my stoneforge mystic. Confidant allowed me to draw Faerie Macabre, but he had 2 bridges and 2 dread returns in his GY, a discard outlet, and 2 more bridges in his hand. While 2-3 Narcomoebas were on the stack I chose the 2 bridges but he dread returned and beat me in the face with a giant Troll.
G3 (w) STP came back in.
He beats me with a threshold putrid imp and recurring ichorids. Vampire Nighthawk + Dark Confidant gave me time and outs against him. I was down to 3 life at one point and Confidant revealed another Bob and put me at 1, but I had Jitte and SoLS on a Nighthawk for the win.
Match 3 – Rock/Junk – Brian (won die roll)
G1 (w)
I won die roll thoughtseized him. He had plains, top, mox diamond,2x thoughtseizes , hymns, goyf. I wanted to protect the Confidant in my hand, so I made him discard the diamond. He didn't top into another land for awhile
G2 (w) - Either inquisitions or thoughtseizes for path and edict.
He double hymned me this game, but I had removal for his creatures. He drew a bunch of land while I drew threats and removal.
Match 4 – Affinity – Tom (lost die roll)
G1 (w)
I had removal for his creatures and Bob gave me the CA to win.
G2 (w) - inquisitions for path and edict
He mulls down to 5 or 6 with a 1 land hand with a springleaf drum. I wasteland his land and vindicated the drum.
Match 5 – Counterbalance – Vidianto (won die roll)
G1 (L)
He locks me with Balance + Top, and kills me with a Vendilion Clique.
G2 (L) - stp for needles. 1 inquisition and edict for duresses. Should not have removed all my removal. Never played against counterbalance so was unsure what to do.
I kept a 1 land hand with Thoughtseize and Pithing Needle. He essentially ignores them and resolves a vendilion clique and beats me down. I eventually draw more lands, but they were wastelands (had 2 nighthawks and 1-2 vindicates in my hand...).
Match 6 – Merfolk – Eric (won die roll)
G1 (w)
I thoughtseized him first, but he FoW pitching FoW. He plays wasteland into Vial. I assumed he doesn’t have any more FoWs so I stoneforge mystic into a SoFI and wins shortly.
G2 (w)- Thoughtseizes for Needles. Inquisitions for Edict/Path
He mutavault into aether vial. I pithing needle Aether Vial. He doesn’t draw lands and concedes.
Match 7 - Burn – Bel
G1 (w)
He weenie beats me with Goblin Guides, Hellspark Elemental, and Lavamancers combined with Burn. Eventually I bait enough burns on my creatures and resolve a nighthawk with SoFI or Jitte on it and that won me the game.
G2 (L) – thoughtsiezes for duresses and 2 needles.
He destroyed me. Grim Lavamancer stopped my dudes and he burned me to death.
G3 (w)
I was down to 3 at one point, but Nighthawk + Equipment wins me the game.
Match 8 – Counterbalance – Gerry
I was placed third so far in the tournament and we decided to ID.
Top 8.
Match 1 – Goblins (R/G) – Stefan (lost die roll)
G1 (L)
All I remembered was he had 1 wasteland 2 mountains and an active vial. It was my turn 3 and he was tapped out. I can choose between vindicate, dark confidant, or stoneforge mystic. I opted to vindicate his wasteland because I had a scrubland and I felt that if he wasted me, I would be mana screwed. Deadguy ale curves out at 3, but its pretty mana intensive with equipments, equipping, and removal. He shortly overran me.
G2 (w)– Vindicates and diabolic edict for 3 plagues and 2 needles
I mull down to five to a 3 land hand with stp and engineered plague. I stp his lackey. He plays vial. I draw a stoneforge fetching SoFI, and he can’t stop it because Gempalm Incinerator does nothing with no goblins. I engineered plague him the next turn after. He tinstreet hooligan my SoFI after I beat with it once. But Plagues stall out until I draw another plague + equipment.
G3 (w)
I kept a double engineered plague hand with a sculler. He plays vial. I fetch a land and end. I didn’t really get to start dropping the engineered plagues for awhile because he kept porting my land. Eventually I landed a mystic. He opted to cast a ringleader (revealing 3 lands and a vial) eventually over porting me. From there, I dropped an engineered plague, but I was down to 7 by then with a plague and Sculler with a SoFI. He has a Vial at 5 and brings in Siege Gang and double shocks me bringing me down to 3. I cast my 2nd plague and the match ended shortly afterwards.
Match 2 – Goblins (R/B) – Ian (lost die roll)
Vindicates and diabolic edict for 3 plagues and 2 needles
G1 and G2 (L and L) – He destroyed me with explosive starts while I mull into playable, but not great hands. Goblins is scary. G1, he had triple lackey. G2, he lackey into matron for ringleader. Lackey into ringleader also revealing warchief, 2 piledrivers and something else, while I only had two tidehollow scullers on the board.
Congrats on your finish! I've been playing deadguy since it had sinkholes and am glad some sort of version is seeing some success. Although with your matchups/luck, mana denial seems to be a theme.
A quick question: Game 1 vs Brian in match 3. Thoughtseizing mox diamond... was that to mainly color-screw the opponent? I can see the hymns being shut off for a couple of turns because of no mox, but if you wanted to cut him off on lands, I'd have chosen top. This way he cannot dig for lands, and if he wants to use diamond, he has to discard a land anyways.
@ workingdude.
I made a mistake. He had 2 thoughtseizes and a hymn in his hand actually (goes to edit), and I wanted to protect my hand which contained a Dark Confidant. Resolving BoB and having him stick a few turns will most likely give me more removal and threats.
And I wouldn't say mana denial is the main goal of the deck. I never really tried to keep someone off color because I never had the vindicate / wasteland at the right time to do it. To me right now, wastelands are good against mutavaults, other wastelands, maze of iths, ports and other annoying lands, while Vindicate is used as a swiss army knife that can do anything for you, including mana denial. If I really wanted to play mana denial, I would play sinkholes, but many legacy decks can still operate smoothly with 1-2 lands, vials, or dig for more lands with tops/cantrips. My DnT side wants to say mana denial is awesome if you play Vial because you just get to port/waste them while you Vial in creatures.
Great job, but I'm curious as to why you did not play Hymn to Tourach. It's always been a staple in Legacy black decks. The random two-for-one for two mana seems to good to leave out. Maybe it would go in the in the Inquisition and Edict spots?
Also, you seemed less than thrilled with Nighthawk. What other creature might go in the slot? Maybe Gatekeeper of Malakir if you think you can hit the triple black.
Congrats Ricky! Excellent finish and tourney report. I am flattered that my list was influential in your card decisions. I am very happy that you did so will with Deadguy, the deck is seriously good. Just a couple questions based on your report.
How was karakas? bounce anything of their's? or mostly just a wasteland target for opponents?
Do you think Nighthawk should be cut to 3? it seems like he was really good for you, and he is okay in multiples....as long as you curve out.
Would you run Hymn to Tourach next time? or was always having turn one disruption key for you?
I find myself fetching SoFI just like you do, and will only get Jitte if I too can cast and equip next turn.
Running only 4 fetches, did you ever encounter a problem finding your color?
@ Justin I ran Gatekeeper for a long time and absolutely loved him. I needed to upgrade to 2 urborgs to support him though. Triple black is actually tough. However, he was cut for BOB a couple months ago. We already have 8 removal spells at the minimum...discard which will hit creatures....equipment that kills creatures...and Nighthawk who trades with anycreature. And nighthawk plus MOM makes your opponent feel real awkward. So unless your meta is full of NO PRO and emrakul, I dont think he is good enough right now.
One more thing, I totally agree with you about Tidehollow. I love that card and how he can just win games for you by offering a clock, disruption, and a body to hold a sword.
Congrats again Ricky! way to play! I hope you stick with the deck. Isn't it fun bashing with huge equipment?
@Justin & JadeOberg - my explanations may be wrong since I'm not an expert.
1) Karakas was alright. I didn't really need it with the matches I played and I just used one in place of a regular plains. I will probably take it out because the chances of 1 karakas saving me is unlikely.
2) Seeing two nighthawks in my opening hand made me sad sometimes. But having two in play is awesome because you have a deadly blocker while you swing in for some life gain and hopefully some equipment triggers. The question I ask myself is if I remove 1 nighthawk, what will take its place? And I don't know the answer to that. It has to be a creature because we need creatures for equipment to be effective and playing a singleton creature is not my style.
3) I will most likely not run hymns even though its a 2 for 1. I prefer to directly remove cards that can harm me and see what is in their hand. For example, I can remove their removal so I can stick a bob or counterspells to land a mystic. And having a first turn discard followed by mystic/bob/sculler is a pretty cool play and it happened often. See below also.
4) The only time I felt mana or colored screwed was when I was wastelanded/ported, which is why I tend to play more basics. Perhaps the reason I didn't feel mana screwed was because I never needed double black second turn for a hymn. Or I was just lucky.
4.5) Non Marsh Flats fetchlands would mean fetching either a scrubland, giving them an opportunity to wasteland us, or a swamp/plains at the cost of 1 life. I feel every point of life matters for this deck because we are hurting ourselves via Marsh Flats, Thoughtseizes, and Bobs. On top of that, we usually do not block with Bob or Tidehollow Sculler unless we have to or have a Mother out (but Mom can block by herself).
5) Diabolic edict is a good removal spell until you are up against elves or goblins because they swarm you. I might take it out for another inquistion/duress or a path to exile. I don't think diabolic edict is a good answer to Emrakul or Progenitus because Natural Order decks or Elf decks will have another creature out. We have discard against Show and Tell or Sneak Attack. Perhaps Retribution of the Meek is a better answer because our creatures are so tiny unless they have equipment on them, and even then, MoMs and Mystics still survive. Oh snap, I think I will replace my edicts with Retributions.
6) I agree that Gatekeeper is an amazing card, but triple black is hard to come by, especially when we want to fetch out basics (if possible) against unknown opponents or people playing wasteland.
Note - Since I am a legacy casual player, I don't get to play magic often, and playing against tier 1-2 decks are even rarer for me so I may be just be pulling shit out of ass. In the meantime, I'll be brainstorming a deck with Aether Vial, Tidehollow Sculler, and Flickerwisp.
Oh yeah, I totally forgot to thank you JadeOBerg for your list and suggestions, so here I am thanking you. Thank you!!!
Congratulations ricky!!! Did you have a friend that played r/b goblins and had beef jerky?
@rickythejerk: congratulation for the result! What is your sideboard strategy against G/W/B Junk?
@ Rainbow Maker - Yes I had a friend playing r/b goblins but I did not know he had beef jerky. He wore glasses and a wool hat and is called Anh.
@ annoiato - I do not have much experience against junk since I only played against it once, but I believe my SB choices were correct with the list I had. They play goyfs, knights, and bobs for sure, and their other "threat slots" range from pridemages to Elspeth, which means their creatures simply outclass ours even if we have equipment. Discard will not do us much good when they land one of their beefy creatures that outclass ours in terms of P/T. More removal on the other hand will help. And discarding on the play is not as effective because they run a discard suite also (thoughtseize and hymn with mox diamond).
I can also SB in needles and faerie macabres, but I don't think they're needed. Faerie macabres can shrinky goyfs and knights, but our creatures P/T are so small in the first place that I don't think it will matter. Needles on the other hand can be used against knights, top, elspeth, pridemages, deeds, and maze of iths, but what will you side out for them? The only cards that can come out for needles is the discard suite, but I see needles as very ineffective cards against Junk. Needle can affect tops, knights, maze of iths, pridemages, deeds, and elspeths, but they only play 1-2 of each except top and knights, and Junk will most likely be unaffected when we needle those cards. Needle also doesn't affect their other cards much either because they only play 1-2 of each, so we will end up holding the needle in our hands or randomly naming something hoping that it stops something instead of being a dead card. Because of that, I would rather still run some discard mainboard over needles. Oh yeah, thoughtseize should come out first before inquisition because they also curve out at 3 besides elspeth.
Turn 1 discard followed by turn 2 mystic/sculler/bob is such an awesome play that I will most likely bump up the inquistions to 3 in the mainboard.
If I run 4x Sinkhole, do you think it is a necessity to run Dark Rituals? I love Sinkhole, but it's an underwhelming late game draw, and I shed a tear everytime I draw a Dark Ritual after turn 3 or 4.
My current list:
5 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Tainted Field
1 Plains
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
I'd like to squeeze in 2 or maybe 3 Sensei's Divining Tops. Possibly -4x Sinkhole, +3x Top +1x Inquisition?
I kinda wanna test out Mother of Runes too.
Opinions on Gerrard's Verdict? I ran it before and liked it. But I removed them for Mystics.
There is a thread on why Sinhole is not so good in the current meta here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?19707-[SCD]-Sinkhole
As for Dark Ritual, you probably don't want to run it in Deadguy Ale anymore. The card disadvantage usually hurts worse than the advantage of the tempo gain. It's also a pretty terrible topdeck most of the time. Its best use is for combo decks or maybe in some decks that play Tombstalker.
Other than StP and Gatekeeper, what are the better creature removal cards? I've seen some use Path to Exile, Innocent Blood, or Diabolic Edict. My noob might be showing, but what about Grasp of Darkness?
Smother, Snuff Out, Shriekmaw, Vendetta, or even Cabal Pit are some other choices. Snuff Out is my favorite for black removal.
Snuff out is definitely awesome, but I'd be hesitant to use it with Dark Confidant. You could lose 4 life on the draw for its cc, then another 4 life to cast it. Consuming Vapors would be nice to use too, but again, 4cc meh. Grasp of Darkness might appear to be a crappy common, but I think it might be a valid removal spell. I'm going to consider testing it. My list would look like:Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenpoe
5 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Tainted Field
1 Plains
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Gerrard's Verdict/Grasp of Darkness/Chainer's Edict/Diabolic Edict/Innocent Blood
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Do you think 3 Tops is better than 2?
Opinions? Criticism?
The sinkhole tactic is a bit random in my opinion. What i like about my half proxy Deadguy deck is that you play relevant cards all the time that get you card advantage. I really enoy the disruption, removal, awesome creatures and CA power it has and thanks to the equipment package, you can turn every creature you have into a serious danger! yes even a gatekeeper :) Though i am not sure which deck i want to play, this or Merfolk... i don't want to spend too much money on different legacy decks, want one that can win tournemants, obviously merfolk is already proven, yet i like Deadguy... and soon the Phyrexian Crusader is also available as a sideboard/mainboard card.
Lands: 20
4x Scrubland
4x Fetid Heath
4x Marsh Flats
5x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures: 19
4x Dark Confidant
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Stoneforge Mystic
Sorcery: 12
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate
Instants: 4
4x Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts: 5
2x Sensei’s Divining Top
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
I know Sword of Body and Mind hasn't really found a home in Deadguy, as I've only seen one build ever running it, but I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on the newly spoiled Sword of Feast and Famine: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s..._Besieged.html
It seems strictly worse than SoFI, SoLS and Jitte, but does anyone have any other thoughts on it, or is this just plain inferior/unsuitable/unusable?
Bad, both the new swords have no purpose in the deck. We have enough disruption with hymn, inquisition and darkhollow sculler. Fire and Ice gives us more damage that can be used as removal or direct damage to the opponents face and it has the card draw part. Light and Shadow gives life gain which is good against aggro and good in general to cover dark confidants life loss and it brings back creatures, our creatures are all CA machines, like Confidant, Gatekeeper and Sculler, so bringing them back is double the CA.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocMethod
I firmly believe the version i posted is the strongest and the only thing Mirrodin Besieged has given Deadguy Ale is Phyrexian Crusader as a Sideboard card for goblins, zoo and burn!
Phyrexian Crusader dies to Warren Weirding, and because of Infect, he's little better than a wall. Maybe if you could Dark Ritual him turn 1 and just keep beating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebirth
What do people think of the Aether Vial'd version? It seems to me that the Equipment toolbox and Vial are natural additions to this deck.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...is_Format.html
In my opinion, the Mirran Crusader is superior to the Phyrexian (Poison in a non-poison Deck is shit). Prot: Tarmogoyf, Knight of the ... and a good handful of Removal + Doublestrike to Trigger our Equipments twice is it worth to achieve Double-W (which I need to hit anyway, cause I play Elspeth^^)
By the Way, what do you think of the Needle-Man
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9...ianrevoker.jpg
valid sideboard-option?
Are you guys trying to troll or are you simply dumb?
Nighthawk will still be a better MB card than both of the crusaders, however when it comes to SB, Phyrexian Crusader is superior. What the hell do you want mirran crusader? to get it bolted, lightning healixed, pathed, swords to plowshare? The Phyrexian Crusader = Zoo Killer, Goblin Killer and is handy vs Burn decks. The Infect and First Strike are not important, the PRO RED AND WHITE are important. Mirran Crusader is garbage compared to Phyrexian Crusader, also the Phyrexian Crusader dies to Warren Weirding? Lol, since when does Zoo, goblins and burn play that? goblins maybe, if they are splashing and they have that card, most goblin builds that splash, splash black for disruption.