[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

I also play exclusively on MTGO simply due to work and time constraints, I can play at any point. The meta on there, from my experience at least, is that it's simply open. There's no dominating deck or deck type so you need to be prepared for it all. Had great results with my JunkFit list.

4 Vet Explorer
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Rel
1 Wilt-leaf Liege
3 Siege Rhino
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herions

4 GSZ
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

1 Garruk, Relentless

3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard is ever-changing and personal preference but is things like Moat, another BSA, Thalia, Relics. Any questions, dont hesitate to ask. I know some of the choices are odd.

I personally think DRS needs to be included in the core considering how heavily peppered legacy is with fast combo. It's one of our only hopes of winning game 1 against Storm, Dredge, Delver etc.

This is just me daydreaming, but what do you think of Demonic Pact? I feel like it can produce juice to end a game quickly enough, and worst case scenario we can pop it with a Deed. Shrug.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thotcrime

I personally think DRS needs to be included in the core considering how heavily peppered legacy is with fast combo. It's one of our only hopes of winning game 1 against Storm, Dredge, Delver etc.

This is just me daydreaming, but what do you think of Demonic Pact? I feel like it can produce juice to end a game quickly enough, and worst case scenario we can pop it with a Deed. Shrug.

---

Perilous Research suddenly seems very playable.

It's mostly cute.

I like Junk a bit because we can still jam 4 Canonists and a bunch of Grips and hopefully call those two matchups a day. However, Jund gets you REB and Games, and BUG, should it get off the ground, can obviously play Force, FS, and Grip. I played against BUG at Prague Eternal and crushed the ever loving garbage out of the guy. I just don't REALLY know what I want out of a BUG shell right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdematt

I like Junk a bit because we can still jam 4 Canonists and a bunch of Grips and hopefully call those two matchups a day. However, Jund gets you REB and Games, and BUG, should it get off the ground, can obviously play Force, FS, and Grip. I played against BUG at Prague Eternal and crushed the ever loving garbage out of the guy. I just don't REALLY know what I want out of a BUG shell right now.

---

That's the problem BUG has had since day 1, unfortunately. There's all these sweet things you can do in "big blue" decks, and you obviously gain access to some ludicrous anti-combo cards (you left out Glen Elendra Archmage, for example, which can be as much of a nightmare for combo as Slaughter Games is). The problem is there is no clear game plan. There's all these reactive options, but there's no combos or plans other than just value-grinding your opponent to death.

I've really been wanting to make a Helmline bug list, but it's been defying me every step of the way while trying to design it. Perilous Research might actually be a missing link there, since my main issue was always what to do with redundant leylines and I couldn't come up with a good solution. Saccing them for cards seems fine.

Demonic Pact is hot garbage though, I'm pretty sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

That's the problem BUG has had since day 1, unfortunately. There's all these sweet things you can do in "big blue" decks, and you obviously gain access to some ludicrous anti-combo cards (you left out Glen Elendra Archmage, for example, which can be as much of a nightmare for combo as Slaughter Games is). The problem is there is no clear game plan. There's all these reactive options, but there's no combos or plans other than just value-grinding your opponent to death.

---

Isn't that pretty much the name of the game in Legacy now? I don't see anything wrong with just leaning on Explorer to go over the top of your opponent to value town. Lotion Thief, Glen Elendra, Jace, and what about the best creature in Legacy, Rainbow Efreet. All backed up by Deed, Decay, and counters? You'd need to run more hard counters, but that shouldn't be that big of an issue with the manabase, and could actually be another benefit to the Explorer package. My biggest problem is still wanting to run GSZ to make finding those Explorers consistent + some kind of associated toolbox, but maybe it's just correct to sell your soul and run Brainstorm/Ponder. If something as goofy and awkward as Shardless BUG can make it in Legacy, there has to be a competitive BUG Fit list.

I run brainstorm and gitaxian probe right now but could be sold on ponder in that spot. Although I wouldnt run 4 ponder. I just dont think GSZ is needed in bug decks. I like running more blue (so Strix and Snapcaster) and being able to play FOW main. This gives the deck a more 50/50 feel than most lists as by doing that you lose some edge in the grindy matchups. I still like that as backing jace up with both force and deed provides more than enough value. If you are worried about win cons in the deck drop some of the lilys or 1 dig and add smth like Tasigur which was great for me when I was only on 2 dig.

Losing GSZ does reduce the vets you have access to immediately but I think the trade off is that of the nic fit decks I have played this is the most consistent at playing a normal game when you cannot ramp.

It MAY be at a disadvantage in the mirror but since when is the the nic fit mirror a consideration for a version? If you want to play nicfit to beat up on tempo and midrange decks punishing fire and/or the junk version will do that better. If you want to have a deck that has a more even spread of matchups then I think a bug control version is going to be better. This is all IMO.

As much as it pains me to admit it, DTT is probably correct for BUG. I'm just wondering if a BUG version needs any of the usual over the top fatties, or does it just grind out with resilient/utility dudes + Jace as alternate?

The non green, but blue creatures deliver "better" utility then green/blue green creatures offer. Obviously the better creatures are in Junk or Jund colors. Therefor i would prefer running a non GSZ list.
Thinking about BUG lists just give me headaches... like said, there is no clear gameplan. But ramping into Jace and protect him with value creatures might be solid enough. So far this is what i came up with:

Main 60
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Thragtusk
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
5 slots open for countermagic/Thoughtseize, but i am not sure where to go from there.
6 Duals
6 Basics
8 fetch
2 utility (Two Towers?)

Space is so tight...

Right off the bat id say -1 scooze -2 ponder +1 strix +2 probe. Then three force and two flew slots. Maybe another tasigur and another cliq or two innocent blood. You could even go two glen elandra based on the meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uncletiggy

Right off the bat id say -1 scooze -2 ponder +1 strix +2 probe. Then three force and two flew slots. Maybe another tasigur and another cliq or two innocent blood. You could even go two glen elandra based on the meta.

---

Probably even:
- Scooze
+2 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Ponder
+4 Force of will
Although i am not so sure what i would want to Snap back with the SCM.
1 Glen-Elendra Archmage and 1 Notion Thief are nice aswell. Also a card the i really like is Aetherling. An evasive beater that can easily go defensive protecting Jace. Also lategame we can sink mana in the card. The card reminds me of the times Morphling was a thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

As much as it pains me to admit it, DTT is probably correct for BUG. I'm just wondering if a BUG version needs any of the usual over the top fatties, or does it just grind out with resilient/utility dudes + Jace as alternate?

---

I guess you can go either ways.
I like playing sort of a combo in my BUG list as games tend to be really really grindy and having a I WIN button will at least help you closing G3.

I'm not sure whether we really need to play DTT or not.

From experience with BUG fit, I avoid playing any cards with UU/GG/BB that are not at least CMC =/>4.
Getting U/B/G as your first basic lands are more often than not a matter of life or death.
Speaking of which I usually fetch for swamp and then for a tropical so that you can cast everything against a non wasteland deck.

On the subject of BUG builds, this is an old Mystical Teachings build I was tooling around with. Haven't tested it in a while. I think this was Treasure Cruise era because I wanted to jam Notion Thief. Would also explain the Thragtusk and Chimera. I think I would add more counters and Snapcasters today. Maybe even something like a Mystic Snake or Plasm Capture.

2x Bayou
2x Forest
3x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Phyrexian Tower
3x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

2x Pernicious Deed

1x Baleful Strix
1x Horizon Chimera
2x Notion Thief
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Thragtusk
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
4x Veteran Explorer

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Green Sun's Zenith

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
1x Consume the Meek
1x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will
3x Mystical Teachings

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Chill
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pernicious Deed
3x Pithing Needle
4x Swan Song

I was thinking of trying out a BUG build that used Vet, Dorks and Lotus Cobra to ramp alongside counters, Jace and Consecrated Sphinx. What do you guys think? Maybe something like this:

Creatures (14)
4 Vet
1 DRS
1 Ooze
4 Lotus Cobra
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
2 Consecrated Sphinx

Planeswalker (2)
2 JTMS

Sorcery (10)
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
2 GSZ

Instant (10)
4 Brainstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

Enchantment (3)
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pernicious Deed

Lands (21)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Glen Elendra
1 JTMS
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Nihil Spellbomb

Thoughts? I've only ever really played vs. Nic Fit but I am interested in possibly playing it.

@ 4 Gitaxian Probe, why? The card is at its best G1, T1 on the play. For the rest of the match it just becomes worse topdeck. I'd prefer Ponder over Probe since that the card is miles better mid/lategame. Granting you card selection and another shuffle effect that makes your Brainstorm/Jacestorm better.
@ Teferi/Mystical Teachings. This is a very high commitment just to be able search your non flash creatures for 4! mana even. Having acces to a Force of Will can be ok i guess. But i'd rather be using slots for more versataille or higher impact cards.

@ Horizon Chimera: Vendilion Clique is worth more in that slot. Also for lifegain i will be sticking with Thragtusk since that card makes impact when it enters the battlefield.

@ Lotus Cobra. The card is conditional. You will find yourself wanting to get mana out of it, but lacking the landdrops/veteran trigger. Or the other way around. Lacking a solid card to drop out of the mana. I would run Deathrite Shaman as a playset. The card not only helps you ramp, it also solid vs combo and helps you stabilize against fast decks like burn.

as for my list:
I'll settle for:
+1 Ponder
+1 Strix
+4 FoW
-1 Scooze

Not sure if i want additional creatures like Glen-elandra or Notion Thief. I'll see from there.

Edit: Like i said, space is tight. I do, however, find the lack of additional countermagic or discard rather frustrating.

We can agree to disagree on the fourth fow. I dont think you're a force deck you dont need it in most matches it's often the first card you should be siding out as nic fit and in the matches where you do have to force or die it might get you there game one and it might just be duressed away or recieve a force back. It gives you some percentage points game one but in the long run I dont think 4 main is right in anything other then a +20% omni/storm meta. If that's your meta then your playing the deck for fun and that slot should just be a super spicy one of anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uncletiggy

It gives you some percentage points game one but in the long run I dont think 4 main is right in anything other then a +20% omni/storm meta. If that's your meta then your playing the deck for fun and that slot should just be a super spicy one of anyway.

---

Good point. I'll have to think about it what to do with it. Putting FoW entirely into the board does open the main for some space.

I have run a few testgames and the list seems to ramp into an early Jace pretty smooth and does a decend job protecting it. The plus to run it in a NicFit shell is that you shift into grinding the game out with Jace faster then regular BUG control AND you simply have more means to be able to protect it. Also it applies more pressure much faster then BUGstill does. Also Pernicious Deed is an important factor here.
But i do feel rather "soft" to combo. The sideboard has to be dedicated to fight combo, nothing new to NicFit anyway. So i do feel right with putting Force into the board and strengthen the fair matchup game 1.
Perhaps +2 Thoughtseize or Liliana of the Veil, +1 Maelstrom Pulse or Vraska the Unseen and +1 Glen-Elendra Archmage or Eternal Witness. I do not see the point in running Snapcaster Mage in this deck. There are not to many usefull cards to flash. Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt make much more sense to run Snappie. Eternal Witness can bring back everything and still there is the option to loop Witness. We lack GSZ to find it, but with all the Brainstorm, Ponder, Dig and Jace action you should be able to find it pretty consistent. Running a more Walker heavy build with Vraska and Liliana sounds appealing, but i think that Thoughtseize/Maelstrom Pulse make the build more effecient.
Another consideration i have is that this deck lacks graveyard hate to battle Dredge/Reanimate. Scavenging Ooze is an auto include for me in any NicFit list and somehow i always end up being paired to either one in nearly every tournament i play.

I run 4 gitaxian probe. I do not think its "wrong" but the card in the graveyard has to matter. This means DTT. I play 3 of that card, the sooner you dig the better. I also run 4 fow. I play this deck as a hard control deck though. I do not feel bad with my game 1 combo match up and post board I am more than happy.

Snapcaster is additional bstorms or decays pretty much. Which is fine, I have rarely thought snap was a bad draw, also allows some nice probe therapy snap hands against some decks. I play 2 snap and 3 strix but am not sure that config is right but its also very dependent on meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom4ik

I run 4 gitaxian probe. I do not think its "wrong" but the card in the graveyard has to matter. This means DTT. I play 3 of that card, the sooner you dig the better. I also run 4 fow. I play this deck as a hard control deck though. I do not feel bad with my game 1 combo match up and post board I am more than happy.

Snapcaster is additional bstorms or decays pretty much. Which is fine, I have rarely thought snap was a bad draw, also allows some nice probe therapy snap hands against some decks. I play 2 snap and 3 strix but am not sure that config is right but its also very dependent on meta.

---

Tom can we please see your latest list, or is it the same as a month or so back?
(haven't seen you on stream in a while)

@starscream - I havent made it to the Wed legacy for a while now unfortunately. Hopefully this week.

(As a side note, they changed the payout (was 4-0 = $100 cash, 3-0-1 was $60 so 3-0ing led to a fair amount of draws) from large cash payouts to smaller $15 -> $10 buy in to store credit as well. From their standpoint i can see it but a lot of the community now doesnt see the wed mead hall as smth to try to get to and more of if free)

My list is probably pretty close. I am on 4 gitaxian probe, 3 strix, 2 snap, 3 dig through time and 1 Thragtusk as "flex spots". I also have 1 pulse main instead of the 3rd decay. I also am only on 2 deed right now. I think the reason BUG decks vary so much more wildly is that the deck can be played in so many different ways than smth like Junk or Jund. This does lead to a less consistent across lists than the other 2 as 75's become much less optimized.

If I run this on Wed I will post the list I use. With miracles and omni being big I would not hesitate to run probe over ponder right now. This deck (Nic fit in general, I do know blue lists will sometimes run force md) has only therapy for relevant early game disruption so probe maximizing seeing and hitting therapy on turn 1 or 2 is worth it for me. Turning therapy from a % chance to hit to for sure is a big upgrade. Anybody that says they know what to name is kidding themselves if they say that probe is not valuable. The question becomes is that single use worth it. I think when playing with dig and snapcaster it is.

Somebody a while back was wondering why snapcaster in the deck. I play 2 because they are additional bstorms basically. 75% of the time that is what they flash back. then they sac to therapy or jump for jace. They also have git probe with therapy, as well as pulse and decay for removal and honestly flash back on dig is not that hard with this deck. I would not run 4 but having access to to them throughout the game is certainly nice. They especially help post board when you bring in more discard in TS, as well as counters in negate (possibly dispel) and of course the old surgical smth and then do it again against omni.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom4ik

@starscream - I havent made it to the Wed legacy for a while now unfortunately. Hopefully this week.

(As a side note, they changed the payout (was 4-0 = $100 cash, 3-0-1 was $60 so 3-0ing led to a fair amount of draws) from large cash payouts to smaller $15 -> $10 buy in to store credit as well. From their standpoint i can see it but a lot of the community now doesnt see the wed mead hall as smth to try to get to and more of if free)

My list is probably pretty close. I am on 4 gitaxian probe, 3 strix, 2 snap, 3 dig through time and 1 Thragtusk as "flex spots". I also have 1 pulse main instead of the 3rd decay. I also am only on 2 deed right now. I think the reason BUG decks vary so much more wildly is that the deck can be played in so many different ways than smth like Junk or Jund. This does lead to a less consistent across lists than the other 2 as 75's become much less optimized.

If I run this on Wed I will post the list I use. With miracles and omni being big I would not hesitate to run probe over ponder right now. This deck (Nic fit in general, I do know blue lists will sometimes run force md) has only therapy for relevant early game disruption so probe maximizing seeing and hitting therapy on turn 1 or 2 is worth it for me. Turning therapy from a % chance to hit to for sure is a big upgrade. Anybody that says they know what to name is kidding themselves if they say that probe is not valuable. The question becomes is that single use worth it. I think when playing with dig and snapcaster it is.

Somebody a while back was wondering why snapcaster in the deck. I play 2 because they are additional bstorms basically. 75% of the time that is what they flash back. then they sac to therapy or jump for jace. They also have git probe with therapy, as well as pulse and decay for removal and honestly flash back on dig is not that hard with this deck. I would not run 4 but having access to to them throughout the game is certainly nice. They especially help post board when you bring in more discard in TS, as well as counters in negate (possibly dispel) and of course the old surgical smth and then do it again against omni.

---

After playing Grixis Control for a while, I can agree with your thoughts on Probe. I do still feel like there needs to be more win conditions over further additional cantrips (Ponders etc), but Dig is a bit of a game changer and not having to worry about Therapy sniping and just getting a guaranteed hit on what I -know- will hurt them the worst, rather than what I expect will hurt them the worst, is actually a pretty big game.

The main problem I've always had philosophically is the deck space that Probe takes up -- not anything against the card itself or its synergies within the deck. It has a lot of things going for it...I just worry about getting into situations where we're cantripping too much and failing to advance the game state. That's actually something that ultimately frustrated me about Grixis Control to the point of setting it aside for a while. When you run 4 Bstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Probe, 4 Dig....you just spend so much time drawing cards that you definitely have games where you just literally die because you never cantrip into anything worth playing that actually changes the game. When it works, it feels broken -- but the cantrip shell actually has a much less % of working than I expected going in. I honestly don't know how people can stomach running the version that also runs 4 Preordains. I really don't.

Now, if I were tinkering with a blue shell, I think that something like 3 Brainstorm, 2 Top, 4 Probe, 2 Dig Through Time would be a pretty reasonable start, especially if there's a Snapcaster or two and an E-Wit floating around. 11 cantrips / draw spells, not counting things like Jace, doesn't seem that bad to me. 4 Brainstorm / 1 Top may well be correct in a Dig Through Time world, I've just always found the 3/2 split to be nice.

I can agree that we do not want to get into the space of to much cantripping into additional draw spells. I think 4 Brainstorm is the bare minimum and would EITHER play 4 probe OR 2-3 ponder. I also think 2-3 dig through times is where the bug deck wants to be as well. Seeing 7 and then if we grab jace or brainstorm in order to see 10 cards is just insane. I like playing multiple walkers because they synergy nicely with the deed plus chump blocks of strix and snap very well.

I lean more towards probe right now but if you are looking for more space for bombs I would think cutting those but then running a few ponders instead. If we are looking for additional bombs 2 thoughts would be that
1- For me they would need to be blue. I run 4 Fow and as bad a card as it is in a lot of matchups there is a reason it is the glue of the format. This deck with snap, strix, deed, lily, jace, and dig is just a pile of 2 for 1's. We can get that card back. I want the option to pitch a fat thing early.
2- I would need the card to be useful in the matchups that you are most likely going to see. So Omni, Miracles, grixis and Bug delver. Useful is that it requires an answer within a turn.

Basically this means Consecrated sphinx is where I would go if I were to play a 6 mana spell. I know it dies to reb/swords against both of those decks. If they do not have it within 1 turn they will probably lose. AND they cannot cantrip into it without you being ok with it.

I honestly would be more inclined to play 4 drops (archmage, notion, Thrun) than I would be to play 5s or 6s however. I do think Sphinx is about the only 1 I would be ok playing as the value with that card is absurd right now. In fact, if we want multiple 5 or 6 drops I would either play two Tusks or add 2 sphinx.

@arianrhod vintage- I know you are headed to EW for vintage. I think grixis thieves is in a great spot. The version I played was just restricted card.dec and I went 4/5 against shops. Both game 1s I won on the back of Dack. The next 2 times were an early tinker. the first I made blightsteel, which got metamorphed (so I cantripped Dack and stole it....) The next shops game 2 had cage, 1 turn 2 before I could have turn 2 tinkered. So of course I have lotus and topdeck key so I get to sac mox and take all the turns.....) The hands felt bad a lot of the time but it mulliganed fantasically. just some thoughts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom4ik

I can agree that we do not want to get into the space of to much cantripping into additional draw spells. I think 4 Brainstorm is the bare minimum and would EITHER play 4 probe OR 2-3 ponder. I also think 2-3 dig through times is where the bug deck wants to be as well. Seeing 7 and then if we grab jace or brainstorm in order to see 10 cards is just insane. I like playing multiple walkers because they synergy nicely with the deed plus chump blocks of strix and snap very well.

I lean more towards probe right now but if you are looking for more space for bombs I would think cutting those but then running a few ponders instead. If we are looking for additional bombs 2 thoughts would be that
1- For me they would need to be blue. I run 4 Fow and as bad a card as it is in a lot of matchups there is a reason it is the glue of the format. This deck with snap, strix, deed, lily, jace, and dig is just a pile of 2 for 1's. We can get that card back. I want the option to pitch a fat thing early.
2- I would need the card to be useful in the matchups that you are most likely going to see. So Omni, Miracles, grixis and Bug delver. Useful is that it requires an answer within a turn.

Basically this means Consecrated sphinx is where I would go if I were to play a 6 mana spell. I know it dies to reb/swords against both of those decks. If they do not have it within 1 turn they will probably lose. AND they cannot cantrip into it without you being ok with it.

I honestly would be more inclined to play 4 drops (archmage, notion, Thrun) than I would be to play 5s or 6s however. I do think Sphinx is about the only 1 I would be ok playing as the value with that card is absurd right now. In fact, if we want multiple 5 or 6 drops I would either play two Tusks.

---

As a beater, I would pick up aetherling.
Pearl lake/Silumgar are also other options.
If you try to play some dragons, Silumgars (Dragonlord & drifting) look appealing.

I do not fancy Probe. As already mentioned I think Ponder is far better in a lot more use cases.
Pretending to have a better G1 against combo with probe is a path I would not take.

Archmage is a whole reason to play BUG, imho.

I found Thragtusk to be rather clunky in a BUG shell.
Another reason to play Nic Fit is to take profit from being able to play Ooze.
In this meta, I really value Ooze much more than Thragtusk. Messing up with graveyard strategies, opposite DTT, any tempo shell is something I want to have access to.

I am usually playing a weird BUG shell that I have already spoken a lot of. But if anyone wants to play something more straight forward, I would begin with the following:

1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ætherling
2 Snapcaster mage
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dig Through Time
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Ponder

SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

The sideboard looks like a pile but you get the idea.
MBT is also something to really consider playing right now. The fact that it exiles and does not counter is under estimated.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/20827#296226

This is finally online after few weeks. What do you think I should change with my mainboard and sideboard with this metagame? 'cause I put together this list in like 5 minutes before going to event. :D

Hi... need some advice what to place in sideboard in typical punishing fire list. Decks that recently shows are (in order of apperance):

-delvers bug and rug (rarely rub)
-miracles
-reanimators
-D&T

Been playing around with a BUG version recently and while it seems really powerful, it's boring in the way that a lot of blue control is boring to me. Stick a dude, then durdle around with cantrips and counters for a while. The Deeds even feel unnecessary so far, Decay just cleans up anything that wasn't discarded or countered.

Still, Therapy with flashback into Lotion Thief is just so brutal I might have to give it a spin anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Been playing around with a BUG version recently and while it seems really powerful, it's boring in the way that a lot of blue control is boring to me. Stick a dude, then durdle around with cantrips and counters for a while. The Deeds even feel unnecessary so far, Decay just cleans up anything that wasn't discarded or countered.

Still, Therapy with flashback into Lotion Thief is just so brutal I might have to give it a spin anyway.

---

It puts the Lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/20827#296226

This is finally online after few weeks. What do you think I should change with my mainboard and sideboard with this metagame? 'cause I put together this list in like 5 minutes before going to event. :D

---

I would cut Dromoka and Ananfenza for Hymn, more early game disruption.

Do you know the dude in 7th place who played actual 4c modern-style pod?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maharis

I would cut Dromoka and Ananfenza for Hymn, more early game disruption.

Do you know the dude in 7th place who played actual 4c modern-style pod?

---

I was thinking of playtesting with 2x Dromoka's Command, 1x Night of the Souls Betrayal and 1x Wilt-Leaf Liege and cutting Garruk, Anafenza, 1x Path to Exile and maybe one basic land (too much flooding that day). I'm thinking of leaving Dromoka in main. He saved me every time it hit the board.
Yes, I know him. Why? :D

Back to trying this:

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring nightmare

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 swamp
2 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga

2 Slaughter Games
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction/Leyline of the Void
2 Gaddock Teeg
--------

Upped the Sigarda count to try since she's so boss against Miracles, upped the Ooze count to fight the other P. Fire decks and DTT, kept Rhino back up at 4 since he's so good against Grixis do-nothing. Board is much more geared to just beating Omni and Miracles. Veteran Explorer sucks in those matchups, so let's just board in a bunch of high impact awesomeness.

Against Omni:

+2 Canonist
+2 Grip
+2 Games
+1 Charm
+3 TS

Miracles:

+2 Grip
+2 Games
+2 Teeg

I went to the SCG Legacy Super IQ at Indy this summer and got 28th (out of 121) using a list inspired by Matt's Jund Rhino list.

went 4-2-1 The losses were to D&T (greedy keep) and Mono Blue omni tell (he had the turn 2 kill both games and i nailed one of his Show and Tell both games). The draw was to a VERY winnable game 3 against miracles after i slaughter games his Entreat and Jace. Very happy with the deck so far. I run it on MTGO alot too and it seems even better poised to take on that meta. Haven't had time to run a daily yet to see actual results but single que's i am around 70% win rate.

3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
15

2 Punishing Fire
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
22

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Volrath's Stronghold
24

Sideboard

1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Boil
1 Krosan Grip
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Slaughter Games
1 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg

I was testing out today a few games with my friend. He had Merfolk and WRU Delver. I wanted to test out 1x Wilt-Leaf Liege, 2x Dromoka's Commands and Academy Rector-Night of Souls' Betrayal. Build was the same which I've played on the tournament but I -1 Garruk, -1 Anafenza, -1 Path to Exile, -1 Forest, -1 Courser.

Vs. Merfolk, won 2:0 (One game)
- Game one removals and Cabal Therapies kept the field and hands clear for Siege Rhino and Sigarda. Zenith for Wilt-Leaf was lethal.
- Game two I killed one lord with a counter on Sigarda and had to sac her for Invent going for NoSBetrayal. Then Siege and Wilt-Leaf won me the game.

Vs. Delver - 6:2 (Three games)

- First round, I ramped twice with Veterans (he had no basics in main), activaed Deed a few times, then Sigarda and Dromoka killed him.
- Second round, almost the same situation.
- Third round and fourth round lost due to keeping a one land/SDTop hand and getting wasted afterwards. -.-'
- Fifth and Sixth round I managed to get NoSBetrayal online and he couldn't do anything after that.

Conclusions:

Wilt Leaf Liege - He is one of my favourite creatures when in play. 7/7 Sigarda, 7/9 Dromoka, 6/7 trampling Rhino...dreams come true! And with my metagame filled with a few B/X discard decks...win con! Two in main maybe...?

Dromoka's Command - With 2x in main and only 14 (for now) creatures it was not a good card to draw every time. I wanted to test out the +1/+1 counter/fight fusion on Veterans mainly, but I rarely did it. Prevent damage and killing enchantments seems like a good card to keep against Bolts, and similar stuff, but I think they are going out.

Academy Rector - Sacrificing him with unused CTherapy and getting Deed of NoSBetrayal = epic! What are also good targets for Rector if you know some? :D

Night of Souls' Betrayal - that effect on the field is very crucial. -1/-1 on TNN, Delvers, 0/1 Mystics, Adepts, etc. This card buys me time. But, I still need to test this card against GU Infect which I think is a ''secret tech'' in mainboard for next tournament. Killing Agents, Elves and Inkmoths is an epic thing to do! :D

I'm going to be playing a few side events at GP London weekend after next, pretty sure I just want to troll people with Notion Thiefs and Grave Titans, so BUG Nic Fit is on the cards! Any card suggestions to piss people off? :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dissection

I'm going to be playing a few side events at GP London weekend after next, pretty sure I just want to troll people with Notion Thiefs and Grave Titans, so BUG Nic Fit is on the cards! Any card suggestions to piss people off? :tongue:

---

Well, eot Cunning Wish for Hatred, untapping and attacking with Strix can be rather demoralizing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pettdan

Well, eot Cunning Wish for Hatred, untapping and attacking with Strix can be rather demoralizing.

---

Ooh, good call. I actually traded for a Meditation with Cunning Wish in mind this week.

Below is what I'm planning, but I like the Cunning Wish idea too. Decisions, decisions.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Veil
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

A Nic Fit day 2'd at SCG DC, per their metagame breakdown. Do we have any idea who // what version it was?

Hey everyone! I played a fairly stock junk list (I can type it up if anyone wants to see the rest) to a 4-0 finish (beat DnT, ANT, affinity, and Jund) at our local FNM on Friday. There was one thing I was testing though that I wanted to point out.

It had been mentioned before that we might need to re-evaluate our 'sacred cow' in Pernicious Deed and I was certainly feeling it over the last month or so. It was always named by a revoker or needle or something early, and sniped from my hand wherever possible. At the event I tried 2 Deeds, and 1 Toxic Deluge in the main, and then another Deluge in the sideboard.

This actually proved to work out REALLY well. There were a few times where people would blind name Deed on their revokers and/or needles as they always did, only to get blown out by Deluge. It felt like a really good split. And then having all 4 after board was great. Just my 2 cents :smile:

Congrats to whoever day 2'd the Legacy Open if they're reading this thread!

What is the interaction with Containment Priest, Emrakul, and Show ambpsd Tell? If they put in Emmy and you put in Priest would the Priest see they both came in illegally and exile them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InkedIrishman

What is the interaction with Containment Priest, Emrakul, and Show ambpsd Tell? If they put in Emmy and you put in Priest would the Priest see they both came in illegally and exile them?

---

No. You'd have to flash out the Priest in resp to the Show and Tell, at which point they just wouldn't put the Emrakul out. Note that this only matters with Emrakul -- there is equal odds they put out Omniscience and just kill you, which Priest does not stop.