[Deck] Next Level Painter

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

@Voltron00x: Yesterday i got to the top 8, with my Mono U version, in a 25+ tournament losing in quarterfinals against Eva green.
The point is that your list has not CB which is a sight of hope for me becasuse this cards brings me a lot of doubs. Why did you decide to cut it? And which was the replacement card??

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I cut it because most of the time, I'm trying to be the beatdown game one. That involves playing early wastelands and accelerating with Ancient Tomb. However, some decks require this one to play the control role (such as ANT), or are incredibly vulnerable to CB. It's also a way to counteract opposing sideboard cards like Ancient Grudge, Krosan Grip, STP, etc. In testing, it just seemed better out of the board than in the main.

My starcity article tomorrow will be about the evolution of the deck and a tournament report.

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Originally Posted by voltron00x

I cut it because most of the time, I'm trying to be the beatdown game one. That involves playing early wastelands and accelerating with Ancient Tomb. However, some decks require this one to play the control role (such as ANT), or are incredibly vulnerable to CB. It's also a way to counteract opposing sideboard cards like Ancient Grudge, Krosan Grip, STP, etc. In testing, it just seemed better out of the board than in the main.

My starcity article tomorrow will be about the evolution of the deck and a tournament report.

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And cutted it out for fact or fiction?? and what do you think about meekstone in de SB??

Basically yes, some type of draw engine was needed to keep up with the control decks in the format.

Meekstone is a decent possibility in the SB if various forms of Thresh are popular where you play.

To any that may have cared I've moved to Austria and have been resultingly very busy.

@voltron: I have read about your deck and looked over your lists. First I must congratulate you on your success. I have not been able to test it at all so this is purely analysis. The deck I started this thread with and was successful with and the one you have been successful with are rather different.

When I posted the initial version it was a rip off, of Andy Probasco's NL lists. My goal was to simply out threat the opponent and win with whatever was on the table at that time. In short I tried to vomit out the most "must answer spells" with the believe that the opponent would run out of answers. What it seems to me that you have done is meld together elements of Imperial Painter and Dreadstill to create a more focused but seemingly less powerful deck.

1. While I think your build has a lot of cool interactions I noticed the lack of counterbalance in the main (Is this some type of sideboarding tech that people are now doing? If I ever played against you even if I didn't see cb I would bring in every grip I had (which I know you would stifle my fetches and waste my green sources...), so I'm not sure what you are doing with it there...).

2. I believe you have already addressed blood moon and BtB (i.e. you don't see it much), but your manabase can get preyed on pretty well by a well timed wasteland (and everyone is succeptible to stifle so that is sort of irrelevant).

3. At first glance it seems that you have less sources of actual or virtual CA and more sources of DA (i.e. Dread+stifle). I realize there are interactions with trinket mage and that you don't really need CA when you win the game but with all of the interactive cards you are playing it seems that you would go longer into the game with only FoF to restock and some 2 for 1's from Trinket Mage.

I look forward to you addressing the above mentioned points and again congratulations on winning a substantial prize.

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Originally Posted by voltron00x

My starcity article tomorrow will be about the evolution of the deck and a tournament report.

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Could you provide us the link to it?? Thx!!

Updated list:

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins

4 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Painter's Servant
2 Sower of Temptation

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Grindstone
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus

--- Sideboard ---
4 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
3 Lorescale Coatl
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Could you provide us the link to it?? Thx!!

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Sure thing - let me know your thoughts here or on the forums there.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...tus_Notes.html

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Originally Posted by voltron00x

Sure thing - let me know your thoughts here or on the forums there.

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...tus_Notes.html

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Congrats for the article and for your results in tournament.
Have you considered propaganda as a viable sideboard card??

And is this a good list of CB sensible decks?

Storm
Burn / slight
Elves
Berserk stompy

The last one: Which kind of decks could side us gaea's blessing??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoldenCid

Congrats for the article and for your results in tournament.
Have you considered propaganda as a viable sideboard card??

And is this a good list of CB sensible decks?

Storm
Burn / slight
Elves
Berserk stompy

The last one: Which kind of decks could side us gaea's blessing??

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I did consider Propaganda. It seems like it'd be good against Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk, and Ichorid, and might actually be better than Pyroclasm. I should probably revisit it.

CB is terrific against Storm, Elves, Zoo, Burn or Goyf Sligh, MGA, and also against any other decks that want to run CB, since their mana costs are in the same range. Siding in an unexpected CB can totally wreck them game 2.

could anybody give advice for my list? I'm playing it on Friday and Sunday...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltron00x

I did consider Propaganda. It seems like it'd be good against Goblins, Zoo, Merfolk, and Ichorid, and might actually be better than Pyroclasm. I should probably revisit it.

CB is terrific against Storm, Elves, Zoo, Burn or Goyf Sligh, MGA, and also against any other decks that want to run CB, since their mana costs are in the same range. Siding in an unexpected CB can totally wreck them game 2.

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I think so...i took your idea cutting 2 CB and 1 BEB in favor of 3 impulses as aditional draw engine to top and brainstorm.
What do you think about my side??

SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 1 [5E] Meekstone
SB: 2 [CS] Counterbalance

Dream Wizards Legacy #4

4 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins

3 Trinket Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Painter's Servant
2 Sower of Temptation

4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Grindstone
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Engineered Explosives

--- Sideboard ---
4 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Pithing Needle

I finished somewhere between 9th and 12th, with the best breakers ever.

Round 1 - Canadian Threshold (he made T8)

G1 he mulls to 5, we get into a Goyf fight and I grind him out. Game 2 is interesting, we get 3 Goyfs apiece, he trades a Mongoose and a Bolt for 1 of them. So he gets Goyf advantage and puts me to 4, he's at 9 and I have 2 4/5 Goyfs. I Top into another Top and Force my own Top, holding Pyroblast. He can't force the force because he'll die to Goyfs, so he loses.

Round 2 - Storm (he made T8)
Game 1 he goes to 1 life off ad nauseam and is 1 life short of killing me. I came close to punting game 2, but I get it with CounterTop.

Round 3 - Eva Green (he made T8)
Game 1 I mull to 5 and keep the following hand
Mountain (I hate this card, it's going out of the deck)
Painter's Servant
Top
Grindstone
Relic of Progenitus

I still lose because I draw a bunch of lands and he snuffs servant out. Game 2 I blow him out with CounterTop followed by Goyf. Game 3 he hymns away my second land and I'm stuck on a Mountain, while Top fails to find me land for 5 turns in a row.

Round 4 - Chris Harten (he made T8)
He's 3-0, so he offers me the draw even after he wins game 1.

Round 5 - Calosso Fuentes (he made T8)
Game 1 he beats me with Ajani Venegant while the board stalls out. Game 2 takes forever, I get Academy Ruins (he's like WTF Bad Card, I dunno if he was sarcastic) and blow up everything, but I start trying to win after it gets close to time. I could've Grinded myself to help Top into it, but I forgot. Managed to land the combo on turn 5, but it was too late (he had force but knew it didn't matter).

Well, my first time playing a blue deck in legacy, did OK. I'm definitely changing some stuff around though. Here's my new version after making some significant tweaks:

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Academy Ruins

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Trinket Mage
3 Painter's Servant
2 Sower of Temptation

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
2 Spell Snare
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grindstone

--- Sideboard ---
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Firespout
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
4 Firespout
1 Engineered Explosives

gg2: I think your list is quite interesting. I notice that you and others are MDing REB's. While they are obviously sometimes good and are a cool trick with the painter's servant they are sometimes totally dead.

You also run StP which I struggled with running and eventually chose not to to run black for Confidant. How is that working out for you?

I cut the maindeck REBs because they weren't working out so great and dead too often. Swords are the most efficient removal available, and without the REB/Painter to deal with creatures, explosives just isn't enough.

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I cut the maindeck REBs because they weren't working out so great and dead too often.

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I think I mentioned this. ;)

@White: This can be very effective. I have splashed White before and and thought of doing so again. I'll have to see if I can dig up a deck list.

Last weekend i split finals running my Mono U painter deck. In this oportunity i tested the introduction of 3 impulse cutting 2 CB and 1 BEB, considering the voltron00x's option. Here is a brief review of the tournament:

Round 1: Affinity. 2-0. 1-0-0.
Round 2: Affinity. 2-0. 2-0-0.
Round 3: Fish. 1-0. 3-0-0.
Round 4: Red stax. 1-2. 3-0-1.
Quarterfinals: Mono B aggro control. 2-0. 4-0-1.
Semifinals: WB aggro control (random deck...:tongue: ): 2-1. 5-0-1.
Final: Elves. Price split and intentional draw. 5-1-1.

And...my list:

/ Lands
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
7 [LRW] Island (3)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [TE] Wasteland
1 [US] Plains (2)
1 [MR] Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Painter's Servant
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
2 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TE] Grindstone
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
1 [5E] Hydroblast
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast
3 [VI] Impulse

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 3 [TE] Chill
SB: 2 [BOK] Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 1 [5E] Meekstone
SB: 2 [CS] Counterbalance

I also added a plains to rise EE to sunburst 2 and it was useful. I cut 1 academy ruins in favour of the plains. The change was minimal. Impulse did well. Although i couldn't test it enough when i played it, it worked.
Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

General Comments on Recent builds:

I really don't like anything with the dreadnaught/stifle secondary combo. I feel that Tarmogoyfs are generally stronger in the deck because they block everything except dreadnoughts and trade 1:1 with removal.

I used to play the crap out of dreadstill but guess what, people finally caught on and Krosan Grip became the most (or second most?) played side board card.

My feeling is that this deck should be focused more on out threating everything except for combo decks where you need to play control.

I also feel that the stability of 5/6 basic island manabase outweighs the tactical options provided by a more non-basic heavy build.

With regards to GC's deck:
I think you took a Mono-U build to its ultimate conclusion as you obviously don't use other colors for splash creatures.

I feel very confortable with the stifle / trickbid / nought pack. I don't think that tarmogoyf is really necesary here. Think that stifle and trickbind serves to the mana denial purpouse besides in addition with wasteland. Tarmogoyf is a good boy but i have serious doubs if iti is the indicated here. In my last tornament, a StP to my Dreadnought meant 12 life stuff for winning while tarmogoyf, believe me, would has been crap in that match against fish.

I'll be running the deck this Sunday at the SCG $5K. I'll post the results here next week.

I'm pretty close to adding Propaganda to the SB, it seems like a potent addition.

I also wouldn't cut the REBs - even in the rare instances where they're completely dead, I only run 2, and I have 4 Brainstorms to shuffle away any I've drawn, plus Tops to manipulate my deck so I don't draw them.

IMO blasts shouldn't be in the MD. You say you can Brainstorm them away if they are dead, but I say why run a card in MD that can be dead? Save the blasts for the board.