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Actually, you make a fine point on this. I'm actually contemplating on whether I go Chalice + Welder (w/ Cavern of Souls) for stability or Welder + Reforge the Soul for speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonkbase
Chalice blanks do much cards in the format right now and I always find myself siding them in a lot of matchups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
My win percent went up significantly when I moved one drops to the side and chalice to the main.
I am interested to see if cavern is worth playing to play welder through chalice, however seems hard to support other red sources to do that and play reforge the soul.:rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonkbase
After my limited testing with the Reforge the Soul list from the previous page, I found that against control Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile is a real threat.
However on the other hand, Welder is bonkers with Reforge.
And you are right with that red source. I seriously am boggled right now as I have yet to figure out which direction the deck should go.
First of all, hello guys, I'm new here, i was testing two mud builds for 2 months (cockatrice) because i want to build them this month. I made a red version and a blue version and I would like to give my opinion / some feedback from yours, first of all let's see the red version:
Artifacts:
4 Grim monolith
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Mox Opal
1 Spine of Ish Sah
3 Tangle Wire
3 Voltaic Key
Creatures:
1 Blightsteel colossus
4 Goblin Welder
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Lodestone golem
4 Metalworker
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
Sorcery:
1 All is Dust
3 Faithless looting
Lands:
4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
3 Mountain
I planning to use one or two reforge the soul since i can't use memory jar in legacy, i think reforge the soul + goblin welder or metalworker = awesomeness, the deck runs pretty fine, goblin welder + tangle wire is good to keep the guy in a soft lock or to open his barriers and attack him directly. I'm using the chalices in the sb because they screw the welders.
Now I will show my blue version, i tested thousands of times and its nice but i never saw a build like this one so i really need a feedback from you guys to know if it's worthing in the legacy scene:
Artifacts:
3 chalice of the void
4 grim monolith
3 lightning greaves
3 mox opal
2 sensei's divining top
1 spine of ish sah
4 voltaic key
Creatures:
1 blightsteel colossus
3 kuldotha forgemaster
4 lodestone golem
4 master transmuter
4 metalworker
1 myr battlesphere
1 steel hellkite
1 sundering titan
2 wurmcoil engine
lands:
1 academy ruins
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
3 darksteel citadel
3 island
4 seat of the synod
Now i will explain why i made this build:
I was trying to do something different, the worst card against us imo is swords or path, so chalice for 1 in turn 1 is the real deal, i was thinking in a way to do chalice for one and don't screw a creature that cheat artifacts in play, so i found master transmuter, the reasons I'm trying to use her are these:
1) She can protects herself + my artifacts
2) I can do a lot, i mean A LOT of insane combos with my artifacts in my hand, like this: Cast Myr Battlesphere ( 4 tokens), pay one blue, return the sphere and return itself with the same effect ( 8 tokens), if i have a key in the field i untap master and do it again (12 tokens).
3) Spine of Ish Sah, i can destroys 2 permanents every turn
4) Sundering Titan, that's really awesome, in just ONE turn i cand destroys at least 3 basic lands..think about it, cast titan (destroys one land), return to hand ( second) and cast it again with the same effect (third one) that's really insane, that's the reason i don't run wasteland in this deck, and in the red version i don't use them because after playing a lot of times the wastelands + crucible was never a "win-factor" and i could use something more useful so i put them out.
Now i would like to know what you guys think about my two versions and which one you think it's better, i will build one so now i don't really know which one )':
If I was going to go blue I wouldn't want to muck up all my one drops with chalice, here is what I would test
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Temporal Mastery
4 esperzoa -good with monolith and tangle wire
3 master of etherium
4 force of will
4 chalice of the void
4 tangle wire
4 lodestone golem
2 wurmcoil engine
4 Grim Monolith
2 metalworker
3 Chrome Mox
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
4 island
2 seat of synod
I am having some qualms about Metalworker. Either it's nuts or it's garbage. And especially without Moxen, it becomes much harder to power out turn on, and you end up having committing a bunch of resources if you want to do that. Getting one use out of your Grim Monolith sucks when your Metalworker eats a spell. When he activates you empty half your hand, but sometimes that isn't until turn 3 or 4, and by then I hope to god you got some sort of lock piece on the board because otherwise whatever you drop is not likely to be that game breaking.
This list took 12th place last night at the scg.
4 Grim Monolith
3 Grindstone
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Lotus Petal
2 Voltaic Key
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Myr Battlesphere
3 Painter's Servant
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Goblin Welder
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Opal
4 Great Furnace
1 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Trinisphere
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Platinum Angel
4 Pyroblast
I kinda like it. The addition of painter/stone combo is interesting. Does this inclusion look like it is worth further testing? Also, Cavern of Souls makes an appearance in this list...must have been effective.
I was hanging out with that 12th place guy as he was assembling his deck. I don't know if you guys see this interaction, but when he explained it to me, I was blown away: Cavern of Souls resolves Goblin Welder through your own Chalice at 1. I was floored. MUD has always had so much potential, but I believe that interaction provides it with the ability to be Tier 1
Then, he decided to play Grindstone over Chalice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
I have been advocating that but I am currently divided with going all in with Reforge the Soul+Welder or Chalice+Welder. That and I've been busy with work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
Tezzeret > Temporal MasteryQuote:
Originally Posted by dillonkbase
Sick non-combo with Tangle Wire.
I am sure Tezzeret is better than mastery, I am not sure going 2 colors is really better than just being blue (Although if I owned 4 seas I might feel differently).Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
I've been in trouble against maverick: what do you think it's the best plan against mav?
For reference my list is
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
4 wasteland
4 great furnace
3 rishadan port
2 mountain
4 grim monolith
3 metalworker
2 thran dynamo
3 lotus petal
2 mox opal
4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
4 lodestone golem
4 wurmcoil engine
3 steel hellkite
1 phyrexian metamorph
2 karn liberated
4 reforge the soul
SIDEBOARD
3 ratchet bomb
3 cursed totem
2 grafdigger's cage
2 tormod's crypt
1 karn liberated
3 phyrexian revoker
1 trinisphere
The only advantage I get from chalice is for their removals but only if I follow with a robot. Trinisphere seems useless also...
Last time I went -4 reforge the soul, -1 lotus petal, -3 trinisphere +3 cursed totem, +3 ratchet bomb, +2 grafdigger's cage but still lost to aggro mav although wit cage and totem in play...
I don't think reforge the soul makes any sense without goblin welder, and if you are having a hard time I would suggest more metamorph and less karn. Spellskite is another good option, for two life you can redirect a pridemage or swords.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
In other news, I am going to try dropping black in my build and adding more islands (over seat of the synod) and playing a transmute artifact main, and submerges in the side.
I'm trying reforge the soul to manipulate the library when i've run out of gas or didn't have much acceleration: I'm not completely sold but, in theory, it could give some value even without comboing with welder, which I don't run in favor of chalice of the void.
Regarding the mav matchup: how metamorph is going to help? Karn in general it's nuts against them, but that's why the search gaddock asap.
In general the problem against mav is that it's an aggro deck with different casting costs (no good with chalice) and fetchable answers (gaddock, qasali...)
Running 4 red cards in the entire 75 should make you question if reforge the soul is the best spell for what you want to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
what about running blue for 2 Jace and 2 Thirst for Knowledge or 2 Thoughtcast? Jace Gives you all sort of late game power and plenty of library manipulation
Metamorph is cheaper and can hold the ground until you can get a 6 drop in play(and you can play it through teeg). The fact of the matter is that soul land and monolith + anyland and a six drop is an awesome turn 2 play getting to 7 mana turn two is less likely and will leave you with much less ammo(your monolith is tapped and you used your petal or whatever.)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
Wrong thread. - Bardo
You are right, but blue is the wrong color.Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonkbase
Ignore that part of the post, it is relevant to a set of deleted posts for a blue build I am working on, hence the, "in othernews"Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
I am currently also testing an unpublished build. The main advice I can give you is to ask yourself how your list takes care of MUD's weaknesses. I believe my list takes care of 2 out of 4 weaknesses that MUD inherently has. Once we solve all weaknesses, the deck should be tier 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by dillonkbase