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It's good against:Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietOlga
Deathrite Shaman
Grim Lavamancer
Snapcaster Mage
Academy Ruins
opponnets Surgical Extraction / Extirpate
...and overall being a cantripping enchantment. ...but it is fairly commonly sided out.
It actually doesn't stop a grim lavamancer. He doesn't target to activate. I was playing them before. But I never found them very useful other than the can trip. I have been testing carpet of flowers as a replacement. As you see top 8 decks in the format being mostly blue I feel it will help shoot out mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Which combo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
You can run for Blind obedience, it's a good card for Elves and Sneak Attack.
But, there is no enchantment really powerful vs combo.
Personaly for storm, I use Canonist with tutor to have it T2, Rule of law, Nevermore (my strategy is to put canonist T2 then Rule of law because canonist will be managed by opponent) and Red elemental blast (to counter blue removal spell).
But Storm use discard, maybe the most is to have Leyline of sanctify and Mindbreak trap in start hand but the chance to have it....(and need 8 slots in side!).
For Elves, I use Canonist with tutor, Rule of law, Blind obedience and Humility.
With Blind obedience in the battlefield, Elves can't combo. (Publicity for my version) With Naya version, you can kill elves with Seal of fire ^^.
For Sneak Show, I use Red elemental blast, Pithing Needle, Blind obedience, Nevermore Oblivion Ring and Humility.
Pithing Needle + Blind Obedience to manage Sneak Attack and the others for Show and Tell. But you can put T2 Rest in peace, then Helm under Show&Tell = Win. Or put Helm under Show&Tell and try to get an Emrakul ^^.
I can't think of 2 better sideboard cards against Enchantress than Ethersworn Canonist and Rule of Law. Maybe Presence of the Master?
@Freggle
If the online meta is mainly combo, I seriously would pre-board a little with 4x Leyline maindeck. It's also useful against discard and most combo's like to target (with Belcher, Storm variants) so it's decent. Combo which aims at combat (dredge, other part of Belcher/Storm with empty the Warrens) is usually handled good enough by Elephant Grass to buy time into teh lock (or combo-blowout of RIP-Helm).
Sphere of Safety is also real good against anyhting attacking. If they don't have the mana (and they normally don't, since the deck is designed to cheat on mana), it's strong against Sneak Attack and Reanimator.
It is a little dangerous if you go overboard with the preboard on account of the average rising mana-cost but with 1 more Sanctuum (you still run 3?) and the Abundant Growth it could very well work.
They can be replaced, but I would do it with another disruptive hate enchantment other than Carpet of Flowers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietOlga
I have played against a number of control and tempo decks and have a good win percentage. Control appears to be favorable as is.
There is a lot of Tin Fins, ANT / TES (can't tell the difference) and Show and tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
I was actually thinking about it last night. After almost playing Stony Silence (bad with Helm) I was still looking for something different. I have run Suppression Field but it is not enough. I was still killed by a Grizzy doing stupid stuff after drawing cards and abusing Dark Ritual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
Blind Obedience does kill Sneak Attack AND storms artifact mana. It will also stop the Emrakul attack kill in TinFins. This seems like it needs to be tested.
Coupled with the main Rest in Peace cutting off Storms Past in Flames and a possible Leyline T0 that may be enough to lock them down or combo off. This warrants testing.
It also slows hasty guys. I was beat in a heartbreaker with the fastest Zoo I have seen yet. It would consistently swing for 7 T2 (Nacatyl, New GR dude that gives GR, and Lightning Mauler paired with GR dude)
I won G1 off of Confinement, but lost 2, and 3 (with E. grass in now) to faster hands, and amazing top deck bolt after I dug 30+ deep and wiffing on finding the Confinement.
I have thought about this but I don't like how an early top decked Leyline can clog our engine. I still do play 3 Serra's Sanctum as that card makes this deck absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just me
I'll post my list tonight, but it's still the same -1 Ground Seal +1 Seal of Primorduim main. This is to give us outs to some random hate, and possibly beat a G1 Counterbalance. ...plus it's just a good on-color card.
This is what I ran in the daily tonight to a 2-2 record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Enchantments (31)
4 Abundant Growth
4 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Ground Seal
1 Seal Of Primordium
4 Rest in Peace
4 Solitary Confinement
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Sorcery (3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith
Artifacts (3)
3 Helm of Obedience
Lands (19)
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Karakas
14 Forest
Sideboard (15)
3 Elephant Grass
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Blind Obedience
Round 1: Burn 2-0 Helm Win & Confinement (opponent scoop)
Round 2: Esper Balde - 0-2 I keep shaky hands and get exposed by Thoughtseize both games T1. I make a run for it but my deck does not cooperate. G2 I saw a LOT of lands even with guile. I only 1 Enchantress Effect. Very weird.
Round 3: Bug - 2-1 - Game 1 win with Helm Kill, Game 2 loose to discard and good pressure, game 3 my opponent lags and time runs out. I have multiple hlms and solitary in hand.
Round 4: Tin Fins - Game 1 Loss T2, Game 2 Loss T2 through Blind Obedience Gets Grzzy draws 14 casts enough stuff to chain Blind I sac a land to return Grizzy he casts artifact mana and Tedrils for exactzies.
Blind Obedience did not live to my dreams. I wonder if Root Maze would perform any better? ...we don't run fetches. Not sure.
Thx for your report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Blind Obedience is not a card that beats all combo deck (there is no enchantment for this). It's just a weapon that works on many combo deck. We need to put lot of weapons to overpass opponent's stuff like chain.
A single card is not enough (by example Leyline is completely not enough alone).
You should consider pithing needle, there is always targets to name (Grizzy, planeswalker, equipment, fetch, wasteland...).
Root Maze needs:
- to have it in start hand (so x4)
- to start the game (so only after be beaten and so only for g2)
- to put it in the battlefield T1 (instead of any guile of enchanted land)
otherwise it's not good. So I don't advice to use it.
Like most players, when they see a lot of lands, they fetch to shuffle. Maybe you need to play some fetchs (but you have GSZ to shuffle too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Hello guys, yesterday i finished 2nd in a small tournament (9 players). This is the list:
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Serra's Sanctum
3 Plains
8 Forest
2 Temple Garden
2 Rest in Peace
2 Helm of Obedience
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Worship
1 Karakas
1 City of Solitude
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Windswept Heath
SB: 2 Aura of Silence
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 2 Autumn's Veil
Game 1
I have got the "bye" because of the 9 players
2-0
Game 2 against "a sort of chepalid maniac combo"
Nothing to do, both game he played the 2-pieces-combo milling his deck and winning with maniac+sensei (the combo involved more pieces before the maniac of course)
0-2
Game 3 BW Stoneblade (i think)
Sorry but i dont remember the game, i have won anyway (dont remember if 2-0 or 2-1 too, really sorry).
Anyway i suffered some discard spells but i landed the combo in both games helped by a grass that was stopping batterskull in G1 and in G2 i have sided in 4 leyline that protected me by discard spells. The sterling grove protected the enchantments so i have won with the combo like usual.
Game 4 against Goblin
G1 He was really fast and i had to risk an early confinement with 4hp and 1 argothian in game. He was locking me a bit with rishadan port on serra's sanctum but fortunately after the initial risk, i stabilized my game (and my drawing engine) winning with the combo.
G2 Similar to game 1, i played a bit slowly because i had to protect my enchantments with sterling groves against his sideboard. Then i have won with helm+rip again.
TOP4
Game 1 against UW Miracle (a sort of; geist, jace, elspeth, angels,...)
G1 Thank to city of solitude i played with the necessary calm until i landed the combo.
G2 The right counters on my spells exposed me to geist, clique, elspeth,..., killing me.
G3 This match was a bit particular. I was playing with lot of pression, counters in early game, jace and a precary draw engine. I risked a choke tutored by grove to force him to stay untapped (he had detention sphere ready to burn my rip in game) and during my draw phase, he "cliqued" me discarding the choke but granting me the chance to topdeck the helm. Topdecked the helm, im ready for the final.
Final against "a sort of chepalid maniac combo"
G1 and G2 gone in a single way: he have won with maniac the turn 2 double protected with forces. Enchantress is 20/80 against combo like ANT but leyline and RIP can help a bit. Against this, was really no way.
Anyway, thanks to my enchantress and several top4, i have finally a savannah ;P
Bye and sorry for my english.
I'm surprised Enchantress hasn't used this combo sooner. GIves it a win con that doesn't need the enchantress and a card those hoses most of the creatures and decks in the format.
Honestly after the release of RIP, i have istantly bought 2 helms (4€ both, just in time) and this combo was the fuel/win condition missing in this deck (that helped me to score several top). Before this combo, i was playing with emrakul, words of war and different common finishers (tokens 1/1, angels,...) but without results.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
In this way we have a 2 pieces combo, with RIP that is a powerful-useful-lethal cc2 enchantment that can be fast landed. And with a bit of luck we can end the match in t3. This was pure utopia befor the combo.
It's hard to put your Replenishes down.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
+1 and good finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by renna
No but it's pretty close. After thinking about it today my opponent was pretty lucky to bounce it, and kill. I think I'll keep testing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
I've played with Needle in the past, and it is good. I feel in the current meta that Tormod's Crypt is just better though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
Fair enough. I still may try it just to prove it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
With as many games as I have gotten an extra turn with 1 life I'd prefer to not play with fetches as of yet (but I have considered them) I think this is more of a case of finding the right spot for Enlightened Tutor and it's shuffle effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dihensoeur
Worst showing in the daily yet.
I went 0-3 + last round bye:
1-2 to Esperblade
Game 1 - I keep a hand with 1 enchantress effect I get thoughtsiezed and it putters out.
- 1 Seal -1 Wild Growth + 2 O Ring
Game 2 - I keep a 2 Enchantress effect hand and it's off to the races. I combo early.
Game 3 - Saw something new ...Meddling Mage on Rest in Peace. I didn't sweat it cause I boarded in 2 o rings. Belive it or not both O rings were in the bottom 12-ish and Sigil got countered. I was able to resolve 1 of them and take out Jace, but with 0 cards in the library I could not cast enchantments. I go to plan b or really plan WTF mode. I had Solitary lock going so discard like 30+ cards and pass.
I discard to confinement can cast helm. I use helm and hit clique. I pass, and attack keep discarding to solitary. I get down to where I start to run our of cards, and I kept a Green Sun's. I cast GSZ for 0 to put it back in the deck and swing. I repeat the nest turn and cast it through 2 spell pierce. Last turn I need to do this trick my opponent top decks Force hard casts and wins :(
1-2 to UR Delver
G1 - I loose to a lot of pierces 2-3 on enchantress effects and 2 flipped delvers.
-1 Seal oP, -1 Wild Growth, +2 E Grass
G2 - I stick and effect and combo off in short order.
Same
G3 - T2 Daze Argothian Inquision GSZ, Pierce Pressence Game.
0-2 Bug:
G1 - Pierce, Daze Force and Goyf gets there.
-1 Seal oP, -1 Wild Growth, +2 E Grass
G2 - More of the same. Got sleepy and nonchalant about it all couldn't tell you for sure.
Learned. You have to be carefull of the hands you keep with pierce decks, and even then sometimes they will just have the nutz. I really need to find room for Enlightened Tutor I have been having too many game looses s a result of how my deck is stacked, and in most cases fetches would not help. Also note that if the engine is running we could care less about Abrupt Decay. The Engine is everything so maybe we should squeeze in a 4th GSZ for more Enchantress Effects and shuffles. Plus plan WTF wins. Elephant Grass just felt bad all night.
I also never wanted to board in Leyline. There were games where I could, but I just don't want to draw into them. I think I may have boarded incorrectly, but if I'm not bringing them in maybe I should look at other tech. in those slots.
List ran just like last plus these minor changes.
Main: -1 Ground Seal, +1 Elephant Grass. SB: -1 Elephant Grass (moved to main) +1 Tormod's Crypt
Thx for report.
Now, Elephant Grass is only good VS Batterskull, black creatures, or mass creatures. But not vs Delver/Tarmogoyf because the opponent needs to attack with only one creature to put us down.
That one of the reasons why I searched anti-creatures in enchantress.
I tried Porphyry Nodes in an Argoless version but it's too slow.
Soul Snare is bad too because we need to kill creatures that we want (like Dark confidant before it give CA to the opponent) and when we want.
My solution (except to play Swords to Plowshares) is Seal of fire.
It allows us to kill all dangerous creatures (for goyf, we have RiP) and as quickly as StP.
"An empty battlefield is a safe battlefield for us"
If you can test it, test it :cool:.
Regards,
Dihensoeur.
So what can we do to get a sick enchantment out of the 'You make the card' contest?
It would have to be viable in standard to I suppose. It would have to be either green or white. It should cost no more as 2 mana. It should do something special (look at all the other 'you make the card cards)
Maybe something like
1G
Tap an echantment to do ...?
or
Sacrifice an enchantment for effect ... ?
Pretty unique to have enchantments being used in new ways
Freggle, just to throw some ideas out there - what do you think about Chains of Mephistopheles? It turns Ponder into a loot, makes Brainstorm worthless and Griselbrand into a mere 7/7 Flying Lifelink Creature.
However, it's probably bad with enchantress effects...
Wow, I don't understand that card (Chains);
Rules
If a player would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in his or her draw step each turn, that player discards a card instead. If the player discards a card this way, he or she draws a card. If the player doesn't discard a card this way, he or she puts the top card of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
So now what?
I brainstorm, discard 3 and then draw 3? (assuming I have cards enough in my hand to discard to begin with)
That might be funny with GY based Enchantress (ditch Rest in Pease, welcome back Replenish)?
Freggle, get to work on that...
Junk (G/W/B) Enchantress deck that run MD Chains, discard effects and Replenish as a finisher. IDK if it would be any good but it sounds fun!
Draw 3 is treated as draw 1, draw 1, draw 1. You would: discard, draw, discard, draw, discard, draw, put two back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just me
With the enchantresses you would always loot or mill as well. It might be possible to setup to win out of the yard, but it seems like more work than it would be worth.
I have tried Chains in enchantress in the past but not extensively. The issue of switching from RIP to Chains is RIP kills strategies whereas Chains just hinders draw. They are not on the same plane as far as independent effectiveness.
It also makes it that you can not effectively run Solitary Confinement. The only strategy that Chains hinders main is our own.
The best black enchantment Enchantress can run is The Abyss (since it targets) followed by chains & words or ?, but even that is lack luster by comparison.
However, a reanimation strategy with Chains and Animate Dead would be fun but likely casual.